Discussion Do you think the Sonic franchise "deserves" or "needs" special treatement next to the other third party series in Smash like many seem to think?

[Tye]

You would be surprised then

I mean, you kinda do actually lol.

I’m no stranger to online Smash Bros. discussion, lol. I’m sure there are some people who say things like that, but there are definitely a lot more people calling for the removal of Sonic than the removal of everything Fire Emblem from my observations.

And the hate for Fire Emblem in Smash seems to be almost exclusively because of how many fighters the series has, and it being “too anime” or whatever to a lesser extent (made more prominent by there being more fighters). If Fire Emblem didn’t have as many fighters as it does, I don’t think anyone would really care. You didn’t really see those kind of takes about Fire Emblem in the Melee and Brawl days, after all. Meanwhile Sonic haters have been shouting about how they wish he was never added to Smash since the very beginning.

 

[Jahranimo]

Fire Emblem gets a lot of hate for having so many fighters (even though it makes perfect sense for the series, but few people care to consider and understand context and all, unfortunately), but you don’t really see people advocating to remove Fire Emblem from Smash entirely or arguing that it should’ve never been in Smash in the first place as you regularly see people say about Sonic.

He should get the same treatment as all third party characters - total removal from the roster.

We must cherish these 1-2 moments haha

 

[Twilight]

I think that if there is going to be a series represented in Smash Bros. they deserve a bare minimum of care, before Sonic even gets another character in the roster, Sonic should have a much better moveset, a much better stage(s), and a much better music selection, which is not an issue exclusive to Sonic or third parties, some third parties get way better treatment than some Nintendo franchises.

 

[AtomicZach]

They shouldn't add Shadow.

They should add Blaze.

-puts on sunglasses-

 

[MSnap]

I wouldn’t say no to more Sonic characters but I don’t think he’s underrepresented at all. One of the weirder takes I saw said that his music selection was embarrassingly small.

 

[tender]

Special treatment? He's lucky he's there at all.

 

[batfax]

I.... don't like this but yall're right

come on though, Sega... Alex Kidd, NiGHTS, Ryo Hazuki, Vyse, Gum, Amigo, Ulala, AiAi, literally anyone from Streets of Rage or Virtua Fighter...

For what it's worth, it seems like Nintendo themselves at least kind of consider ATLUS a separate entity if Joker having a distinct amiibo prefix from Sonic and Bayonetta is to be believed. Like, sure, SEGA owns ATLUS, but they're almost completely hands off to the point that it's kind of a bother with some of the content in Persona obviously not lining up with SEGA's views.

SEGA being part of the NSO line-up now and consistently putting some of the most hype releases does give me some hope that maybe we'll see some more SEGA content next time. After all, it's just good Brand Synergy or whatever to introduce a character and say "Oh, by the way, if you have NSO Expansion Pass you can play their original game right now." More people really need to just be outright told by Nintendo to play Phantasy Star IV, IMO.

I think Yakuza characters like Kiryu or Judgment characters like Yagami would suit Tekken or Virtua Fighter more tbh.
If we got more SEGA properties in Smash, I'd choose an IP like Sakura Wars or Phantasy Star.

Sakura Wars is an interesting speculation outlier for me. It feels like the biggest knock against most SEGA series/characters joining Smash is them not being active with new stuff in any form for 10 or 20 years, but Sakura Wars has had annual stage shows since the dang 90's that now have a global streaming audience. I just wish more of the actual games were available in English since it would be way easier to root for it then.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Of course not;

There's nothing special about Sonic compared to the many other franchises represented in Smash, especially the 3rd Party ones.

I have empathy for wanting the series to have more playable characters now that we have multiple Street Fighter, Final Fantasy an Castlevania characters.. but when Sonic fans are full of themselves saying the franchise is more important than the above is where I draw the line.

Meanwhile, did you notice that Pac-Man has like.. 3 games represented at max through minor references? Not even a couple of songs and spirits of later titles >:T

 

[EtherPenguin]

I don't know about deserves, but Tails continues to be one of my most wanted characters for smash. I was surprised FF was the first third-party series to get a second unique fighter and from the same FF too

 

[Bowser Sr.]

He's nobody. You hear me Sonic? NOBODY!

 

[rickyson33]

Honestly I don’t hate the idea of Shadow but only because I find it hilarious he exists. It’s like if they made a Dark Pac-Man who spat the power pellets out instead of eating them and had a cool tattoo and swore. It’s like if they made Dark Cookie Monster who HATED cookies. It’s very funny imo

yeah it's just so dumb it's hard not to laugh

 

[batfax]

Of course not;

There's nothing special about Sonic compared to the many other franchises represented in Smash, especially the 3rd Party ones.

I have empathy for wanting the series to have more playable characters now that we have multiple Street Fighter, Final Fantasy an Castlevania characters.. but when Sonic fans are full of themselves saying the franchise is more important than the above is where I draw the line.

Meanwhile, did you notice that Pac-Man has like.. 3 games represented at max through minor references? Not even a couple of songs and spirits of later titles >:T

Yeah, I'd honestly say that if ANY character is a little under represented, it's probably Pacman. Smash does a really great job of covering the most important bits of every character, and that's true for Pacman, but it feels weird when he's got a grand total of four spirits and three "PACMAN" songs when there's plenty of stuff to draw from. Like the World games.

 

[ILovethegameAC]

I think Yakuza characters like Kiryu or Judgment characters like Yagami would suit Tekken or Virtua Fighter more tbh.
If we got more SEGA properties in Smash, I'd choose an IP like Sakura Wars or Phantasy Star.

I know lots of people want Kiryu in Smash but personally I think by this point I'd prefer literally anything from Sega except for the one series that avoids Nintendo consoles like the plague.

 

[JR436]

Sonic probably needs a bit of TLC in terms of Smash.

A new Side Special would be nice, if only to give Sonic something that isn't a second Spin Dash.

Change some of his normal moves as well, and perhaps make him more of a rushdown character so that the competitive Smash community won't complain as much. Maybe.

Frontiers should provide some good reference material. On that note, give Sonic a more flashy Super Sonic finisher as his Final Smash.

And for the love of God, give him more remixes. More music in general would be nice, with full-length versions of the vocal tracks included.

If that's all implemented, I'd say Sonic would be in a pretty great place in terms of representation. Anything in addition to that would be a bonus.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Yeah, I'd honestly say that if ANY character is a little under represented, it's probably Pacman. Smash does a really great job of covering the most important bits of every character, and that's true for Pacman, but it feels weird when he's got a grand total of four spirits and three "PACMAN" songs when there's plenty of stuff to draw from. Like the World games.

they prioritize to make his content all around the many classic NAMCO Arcade games, and that's fine to a degree.. Terry also brings a lot of SNK legacy unrelated to Fatal Fury and The King of Fighters.. but you know.. it's not on expanse of his actual series.. and he was DLC!

And I'm not even asking for a Ghostly Adventures skin dammit, Pac-Man doesn't even have his classic death sound effect when he gets a star K.O. :<...

 

[AstroOhHey]

He is and he isn't; there's a lot of caveats to what he's gotten in Smash. Sonic has two stages (though Casino Night/Chemical Plant/City Escape/Insert-Zone-Here would've been vastly preferable to a Lost World rep), a fairly large amount of music (but only one remix), two assist trophies (which just remind you that Shadow or Knuckles could've easily been an echo) and is considered very high tier (but his moveset is also considered fairly boring).

There could be more added (personally I would've adored Dr. Eggman getting in just to round off all the iconic villains we already got) but there's series' with weirder representation in Smash; Pac-Man's stage in for Wii U/Ultimate is god-awful and easily could've been a reworked Pac-Maze, Street Fighter has no music from any games other than the 2 line and Final Fantasy got helped by Sephiroth's addition but for the longest time had the absolute barebones representation in Smash.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Honestly I don’t hate the idea of Shadow but only because I find it hilarious he exists. It’s like if they made a Dark Pac-Man who spat the power pellets out instead of eating them and had a cool tattoo and swore. It’s like if they made Dark Cookie Monster who HATED cookies. It’s very funny imo

Are you talking about Toc-Man or Pac-Devil?

 

[batfax]

they prioritize to make his content all around the many classic NAMCO Arcade games, and that's fine to a degree.. Terry also brings a lot of SNK legacy unrelated to Fatal Fury and The King of Fighters.. but you know.. it's not on expanse of his actual series.. and he was DLC!

And I'm not even asking for a Ghostly Adventures skin dammit, Pac-Man doesn't even have his classic death sound effect when he gets a star K.O. :<...

Yeah, I was thinking how few spirits specifically "Fatal Fury" has too which gave me pause... but since he's DLC and spread the love around in a similar way to Pacman it's not exactly comparable. Terry'll probably just bring an appropriate amount of Fatal Fury spirits (or whatever) next time.

I forgot about the lack of the classic death sound! That's definitely the most unusual thing for Pacman to be missing since it's such an iconic part of the original game. I mean, Mega Man got HIS iconic death...

 

[Hailinel]

I don't think Sonic deserves any more or less special treatment compared to other third-party Smash roster inclusions.

 

[Hailinel]

I dunno what it is about Sonic haters, but more than any other character in Smash, it’s always been common to see people jump at any chance to say how much they hate Sonic being in Smash and would love for him to be removed.

Lol. Where are you when Fire Emblem characters are brought up?

 

[Tye]

Lol. Where are you when Fire Emblem characters are brought up?

Fire Emblem gets a lot of hate for having so many fighters (even though it makes perfect sense for the series, but few people care to consider and understand context and all, unfortunately), but you don’t really see people advocating to remove Fire Emblem from Smash entirely or arguing that it should’ve never been in Smash in the first place as you regularly see people say about Sonic.

I’m no stranger to online Smash Bros. discussion, lol. I’m sure there are some people who say things like that, but there are definitely a lot more people calling for the removal of Sonic than the removal of everything Fire Emblem from my observations.

And the hate for Fire Emblem in Smash seems to be almost exclusively because of how many fighters the series has, and it being “too anime” or whatever to a lesser extent (made more prominent by there being more fighters). If Fire Emblem didn’t have as many fighters as it does, I don’t think anyone would really care. You didn’t really see those kind of takes about Fire Emblem in the Melee and Brawl days, after all. Meanwhile Sonic haters have been shouting about how they wish he was never added to Smash since the very beginning.

 

[Stilt Village]

The premise of this thread is strange to me, because it's not like other third party series don't already have more than Sonic? He's not already in an amazing place, he's got no remixes, one of those music selections with a particular unfortunate fixation on top of that, a rushed moveset... Sonic could get both Eggman and Shadow as an echo fighter next time, and it still wouldn't come off as particularly special treatment, especially when we're just as likely to see Chun-Li get added too.

 

[Yamanoi]

IMHO if we are specifically talking about Smash, add characters that annoy the "fanbase" always. It makes for the most fun like Terry and Byleth.

Me thinking about Alear being added to the next Smash as DLC or in the base game while they cut someone from a franchise no one cares about barring Nintendo YouTubers -

 

[Phendrift]

No, in fact I think it has the same problems as other long-represented franchises in Smash. A moveset that could be way cooler if they weren’t so stuck on keeping characters the same as their first incarnation, and boring “first level of the game” stages.

 

[winstein]

I don't know about special treatment, but I do think that if there is a third-party IP that would be appropriate to have a bit more, it would be Sonic by virtue of his popularity outside of the video gaming sphere, and having presence on Nintendo's systems for a while. Another playable character would be a good fit, though I imagine that fighter would be suited for the base game because I don't think there is another character other than Sonic that would feel as special.

Music for sure would be deserving of the special treatment of rearrangements/remixes given the series' calibre in music. It's astounding that Angel Island is the only rearranged track, which is good no doubt, but there could've been more.

Thank you for reading.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

Why are people so keen for Shadow to join Smash? He's a crap character who's one claim to fame is starring in a ridiculously awful game that cemented the Sonic franchise as being a shadow of itself.

Blinx the Timesweeper would be a better addition than Shadow. At least the two Blinx games had novel mechanics and ideas for 3D platforming.

Even Bubsy had a somewhat decent 2D game. Get him in there over Shadow.

 

[Mbolibombo]

Why would Sonic need special treatment? It's not a Nintendo IP.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Why are people so keen for Shadow to join Smash? He's a crap character who's one claim to fame is starring in a ridiculously awful game that cemented the Sonic franchise as being a shadow of itself.

Blinx the Timesweeper would be a better addition than Shadow. At least the two Blinx games had novel mechanics and ideas for 3D platforming.

Even Bubsy had a somewhat decent 2D game. Get him in there over Shadow.

Because the majority of people disagree with you and he's by far the most popular other character, practically matching sonic every time Sega has ever done a poll, and far above anyone else.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

Because the majority of people disagree with you and he's by far the most popular other character, practically matching sonic every time Sega has ever done a poll, and far above anyone else.

Shadow The Hedgehog: 51 on Metacritic

Many critics derided the game's sense of maturity for a Sonic game, especially the addition of guns and other weapons.[61] Game Informer staff writer Matt Helgeson said, "not only is this new 'adult' interpretation of Sonic painfully dumb, it’s also ill-advised and almost feels like a betrayal to longtime fans."[

Reviewers also noted the game's controls, especially Shadow's homing attack causing unexpected character deaths. Game Informer's Matt Helgeson complained that the attack "frequently sends you careening off into nothingness, resulting in cheap death after cheap death."[57] Nintendo Power, X-Play, Eurogamer, Official Xbox Magazine, and GameSpy agreed.[56][58][61][62][63]

The level design received mixed comments. Mueller called some levels "extremely frustrating".[10] Helgeson stated that the fast-paced "levels are poorly designed", and Andrew Reiner, who wrote a second-opinion review for Game Informer, called the level design "disastrous".[57]

He's a terrible character from a terrible game. He's the embodiment of tacking a gun onto a character design in pursuit of cheap edginess and controversy. He has added nothing to the Sonic franchise, and Smash is actively better for not having him as a character.

Imagine if Sakura passes over introducing Geno, Dante, Crash Bandicoot or Heihachi to do a character introduction for fricking Shadow of all characters ...

 

[AstroOhHey]

Saying Shadow is 'from' Shadow the Hedgehog the game is like saying Donkey Kong is from Donkey Kong Barrel Blast; I totally agree both games suck ass but it's not remotely where the character debuted and you wouldn't assume a fan of the character is somehow trying to defend those games.

I'm more muted on Shadow (I'd prefer Tails/Knuckles/Metal Sonic as far as echoes go, Dr. Eggman for a proper newcomer) but he's pretty blatantly the most popular Sonic character after the title character.

 

[BassForever]

Saying Shadow is 'from' Shadow the Hedgehog the game is like saying Donkey Kong is from Donkey Kong Barrel Blast; I totally agree both games suck ass but it's not remotely where the character debuted and you wouldn't assume a fan of the character is somehow trying to defend those games.

I'm more muted on Shadow (I'd prefer Tails/Knuckles/Metal Sonic as far as echoes go, Dr. Eggman for a proper newcomer) but he's pretty blatantly the most popular Sonic character after the title character.

Less is more, lets remove characters who've been in bad games from Smash like Mario, Donkey Kong, and Link.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Shadow The Hedgehog: 51 on Metacritic







He's a terrible character from a terrible game. He's the embodiment of tacking a gun onto a character design in pursuit of cheap edginess and controversy. He has added nothing to the Sonic franchise, and Smash is actively better for not having him as a character.

Imagine if Sakura passes over introducing Geno, Dante, Crash Bandicoot or Heihachi to do a character introduction for fricking Shadow of all characters ...

Nobody cares what metacritic thinks about one single appearance of a character from approaching two decades ago. You're ignoring that all the sonic games coming out of sonic team around that time were garbage. The fanbase still loves him more than anyone else, no matter how much you want to close your eyes and ears to that fact.

And are you just deliberately ignoring that Shadow wasn't created for that game? People liked him for games other than that, especially Sonic adventure 2 given that he's the other main character who drives the plot of that title, for a start.

You might as well be telling us how terrible knuckles is because Knuckles and chaotix was a terrible game, or tails because Tails adventure is equally completely crap, and ignoring everything else. Or like said above, you can easily spin that same argument out to mario/DK/Link/any pokemon/...

 

[JazzPotatoes]

And are you just deliberately ignoring that Shadow wasn't created for that game?

I said it's his one claim to fame. Which it is.

You might as well be telling us how terrible knuckles is because Knuckles and chaotix was a terrible game, or tails because Tails adventure is equally completely crap, and ignoring everything else. Or like said above, you can easily spin that same argument out to mario/DK/Link/any pokemon/...

Knuckles and Tails claim to fame is that they were introduced in landmark games like Sonic 2, 3 &K.

(I also wouldn't argue particularly strongly for their addition to Smash either, as neither have been in anything of note aside from Mania since the 90s. But at least they were introduced in games that were bonafide classics and helped define the 16 bit generation.)

There's a whole host of videogaming history that can be covered in Smash, too much to waste on D-tier characters like Ow The Edge-hog.

I stand by my original statement: Blinx would be a better addition than Shadow.

 

[OctoSplattack]

I said it's his one claim to fame. Which it is.

I'm pretty sure his claim to fame was Sonic Adventure 2?

 

[Super Devon]

Should the series have additional fighters? Yes.
Does it deserve or need it? I mean “need” is a bit of a strong word but probably?

Nintendo and Sega have been very buddy-buddy over the last decade and that certainly won’t stop anytime soon.

It does kinda baffle me that Sonic is still the sole representative of the franchise in Smash, especially with the Mario and Sonic Olympics series having like 6 games now.

 

[Boyfriend]

i always thought this panel from sonic universe was shadow's claim to fame

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Should the series have additional fighters? Yes.
Does it deserve or need it? I mean “need” is a bit of a strong word but probably?

Nintendo and Sega have been very buddy-buddy over the last decade and that certainly won’t stop anytime soon.

It does kinda baffle me that Sonic is still the sole representative of the franchise in Smash, especially with the Mario and Sonic Olympics series having like 6 games now.

I think it's been a priority thing, they could have done another sonic character, sure, but it's not like Sega didn't get new characters in every game since Brawl, albeit as DLC, with Bayonetta and then Joker in 4/Ultimate. I think this is a common problem for smash with third parties, where unless they're going to be an echo, it's probably worth casting the net a bit wider than doubling down on a third party series for all that development effort and associated costs for licensing.

Sephiroth happened of course, but even still, wasn't the priority second choice for square, who went for Hero first.

 

[Ab]

I mean I think you’re probably right that Sonic is more well-known than Ryu (though I don’t think box office numbers from 2 movies 25 years apart is a great indicator of that) but I do think you should throw a “I think” or “I believe” when making a statement like Ab did with “casual audiences know Sonic more than they know street fighter” unless you can back it up with data

I mean, it's pretty common knowledge. People who don't know gaming. Know of sonic. Some might know the term of street fighter but even older folk know the blue hedgehog.

 

[FazDude]

Special treatment? Probably not - Sonic is an incredibly important IP, but so is Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, and other 3Ps included in Smash. I'd gladly take a handful of new fighters (preferably Eggman first), a non-Green Hill stage, and more music, but I don't want the franchise to become bloated just for the sake of it.

Better treatment, though? Yeah - Sonic needs a new moveset, and I'm not keen on his two stages being Green Hill and Green Hill 2: Electric Boogaloo. Green Hill's iconic enough to stay, but I'd prefer more visually diverse stages.

 

[VolcanicDynamo]

Sonic's treatment in Smash is...fine? It's fine. One character (that warrants a bit of a move set revamp), two assist trophies (one of which could have been a solid choice for an echo fighter), and two stages (one of which is an extremely iconic location, the other being a flavor of the month location derivative of the previous location from a game not many people care for). Better than some third parties, but could be better. The whole Mario vs Sonic rivalry (not to mention Sonic as a key third party during the Gamecube era) definitely inflates the importance of Sonic in many Nintendo fans' eyes, so I can see why we got people clamoring for more.

Speaking to Shadow specifically, it's probably key to mention that the majority of people who want Shadow are asking for him as an Echo Fighter. That's not gonna take the same development resources as a fully original moveset.

 

[TreIII]

I mean, it's pretty common knowledge. People who don't know gaming. Know of sonic. Some might know the term of street fighter but even older folk know the blue hedgehog.

And the same could apply to Street Fighter, as well.

For example: "EVO moment #37" may not mean anything to everybody, but you'd have to literally lived under a rock to not know who Chun-li is. We're talking about the direct inspiration for a song that went platinum and peaked at #10 on Billboard's Hot 100 in 2018. Her Hyaku-retsu Kyaku/Lightning Kicks are among the most recognizable moves in media (to the point that even Fox in Smash directly cites her with its use!). And her icon status, by virtue of being among the first strong female reps in the business, and inspiring so many others to follow, is assured and deserved.

 

[Tye]

I can’t say I agree that Sonic needs a moveset revamp in Smash, and I dunno why that’s such a common complaint. For iconic characters with a long and diverse history, Smash generally keeps it to the basics when it comes to movesets. Rather than retool the entire fighter to be based on the latest installment in their series (which will just become old in time anyway), movesets generally stick to the most iconic abilities of a character when it comes to special moves and such, sometimes with a bit of flavor from a newer game thrown in when it fits.

Like, take the Links; all of their movesets feature some of Link’s most iconic abilities that are consistent across most Zelda games—bow, bombs, boomerang, and spin attack. I know many people dislike this, but I personally think it’s best to handle it this way so that the moveset won’t feel dated in time rather than change it up drastically with the new abilities of the time that likely won’t stick around for future Zelda games, and it works better as a general representation of the character and series as a whole.

That’s how I see Sonic’s moveset, too. It’s got the most iconic features that are present across most Sonic games—Spin Attack/Charge, Homing Attack, and springs. Sure, a lot of people don’t like having both Spin Attack and Spin Charge as separate special moves, but it’s like that for mixups and so that you can throw out a quick Spin Attack in an instant without having to charge it. I wouldn’t mind if they somehow consolidated the two moves into one and gave Sonic a new special move, but what would that even be?

I dunno, I think Sonic’s moveset is perfectly fine how it is. Honestly the one thing I’d change is just adding Tails in some way, that is if we’re not going to get Tails as his own fighter. The absence of Tails is just so glaring, and they could easily replace Sonic’s current Up Special with Tails coming in to fly him around for a bit, or even just include Tails in a taunt, intro or victory animation, or Final Smash. I’d be mostly happy with that, even if I would greatly prefer Tails to be playable himself. It just feels so weird to not have Tails in the game alongside Sonic in some prominent way.

 

[Ab]

And the same could apply to Street Fighter, as well.

For example: "EVO moment #37" may not mean anything to everybody, but you'd have to literally lived under a rock to not know who Chun-li is. We're talking about the direct inspiration for a song that went platinum and peaked at #10 on Billboard's Hot 100 in 2018. Her Hyaku-retsu Kyaku/Lightning Kicks are among the most recognizable moves in media (to the point that even Fox in Smash directly cites her with its use!). And her icon status, by virtue of being among the first strong female reps in the business, and inspiring so many others to follow, is assured and deserved.

No joke.. I'm not sure who that is. She's probably iconic for sure just not on the level of sonic the hedgehog though. I don't really think that's debatable.

 

[AstroOhHey]

I feel like Sonic and Street Fighter are probably neck-and-neck in terms of mainstream recognizable...ness, but whereas you can show someone off the street a picture of Sonic and they'll (probably) know it's Sonic, I think with Ryu/Chun-li/Guile/Zangief/etc. they could identify they came from Street Fighter just as easily, but then not necessarily be able to give you their names.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

No joke.. I'm not sure who that is. She's probably iconic for sure just not on the level of sonic the hedgehog though. I don't really think that's debatable.

That can't be serious.

Chun-Li is up there with Ms. Pac-Man, Lara Croft and Peach as the best well known video game heroines.

If anything, Sonic is several notches below her in terms of importance for the gaming sphere.

 

[AstroOhHey]

That can't be serious.

Chun-Li is up there with Ms. Pac-Man, Lara Croft and Peach as the best well known video game heroines.

If anything, Sonic is several notches below her in terms of importance for the gaming sphere.

Importance for sure, I'm just not sure as many regular-joes not super into gaming could name her as easily as Sonic.

 

[TreIII]

Importance for sure, I'm just not sure as many regular-joes not super into gaming could name her as easily as Sonic.

When the likes of mainstream prime time shows, like Family Guy, are utilizing Street Fighter for the sake of gags, that should be enough of an indicator, ain't it?

Additionally, she (along with Ryu and other SF chars) are even in Fortnite, alongside many other veritable icons like Darth Vader, Goku, Batman and Optimus Prime.

This is the kind of folly that being too deep in the "Sonic fandom bubble" can produce.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

When the likes of mainstream prime time shows, like Family Guy, are utilizing Street Fighter for the sake of gags, that should be enough of an indicator, ain't it?

Additionally, she (along with Ryu and other SF chars) are even in Fortnite, alongside many other veritable icons like Darth Vader, Goku, Batman and Optimus Prime.

This is the kind of folly that being too deep in the "Sonic fandom bubble" can produce.

Sonic is a bigger deal than street fighter as a franchise. It was the face of a entire first party for a decade, the actual series sales of sonic are at minimum triple that of street fighter, and that's not even starting on the mobile games, which sonic has something over a billion downloads of between it's few titles.

We can do the back and forth on them both being used in major crossovers to no end, like, sonic has a Lego set but street fighter never has, or the fact that Fortnite will crossover with any and everything for a buck. Unless you're also pushing that their crossovers with quite literally 'a goat' from goat simulator are also world shaking characters of great reknown, or how sonic has been in prime time shows too, e.g. a number of times in the Simpsons.

The only folly here is pretending that sonic isn't one of the biggest videogame brands around despite Sega's repeated attempts to beat the franchise to death.

Certainly nobody is in disagreement that Chun Li was a great step forward for female representation in games, but so was Samus, and I'm under no delusions about Metroid being in any way comparable in scale to sonic as a franchise despite that.

 

[BGBW]

To reply to the tweet in the OP:
One bad thing about Super Smash Bros Ultiamte is people getting angry about it with zero clue how reality works. Why compare Fire Emblen's treatment in the game to Sonic's? Compare it to Bayonetta or Persona's since it comes down to Sega, not Nintendo, how Sonic is presented.

The series has had zero new arrangements since his debut in Brawl and Smash for Wii U even criminally removed the Sonic R tracks so clearly there's something up with the music on Sega's end. If I had my way I'd stop with all the vocal themes (and remove Seven Rings in Hand entirely) and add more stage themes. Honestly, if you didn't know Sonic music, the track selection in Smash does an awful job of selling it. So much buttrock. As for his moveset, I've never had much of an issue with it. Jumping around in a variety of ball forms is what he's known for lol.

It kind of sucks that the two Sonic stages are basically two varieties of Green Hill Zone in all but name, but it's understandable why we got a Lost World stage - it was the big Wii U exclusive at the time.. Never played the game, but I'm sure they could have used another location, but Smash has a bad habit of using the first/most known location in games for stages. Even Mario suffers from this.

I agree with others that Eggman could have made for a cool boss. And if Sonic did get a second rep I'd go with either him or Tails, but that's because the peak of me being a Sonic fan was when the games were just those three.

 

[AstroOhHey]

When the likes of mainstream prime time shows, like Family Guy, are utilizing Street Fighter for the sake of gags, that should be enough of an indicator, ain't it?

Additionally, she (along with Ryu and other SF chars) are even in Fortnite, alongside many other veritable icons like Darth Vader, Goku, Batman and Optimus Prime.

This is the kind of folly that being too deep in the "Sonic fandom bubble" can produce.

Let's agree to (somewhat) disagree then lol.