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Thank you for the spoiler free summary.
Luigi's Mansion 3 says Hi.That's my ultimate takeaway here. It's pretty sad that a new console basically reached its full potential with a Wii U port on day 1, but that's the state of modern video game consoles and game development I suppose. What you see on day 1 now reflects the entire future of a console (and the same is also true of PS4, PS5, Xbone and Xbox Series).
The days of game developers squeezing every last drop of juice out of a console over its lifetime as they learn the ins and outs of its hardware are long gone. For better or worse, you will never see the same-console advancements that we used to see back in the days of the 16 & 32 bit eras, or even the PS3/360 generation ever again.
Luigi's Mansion 3 says Hi.
BotW is an incredible game, and does what it does superlatively, but to say there hasn't been any advancement in visuals over the life of Switch just isn't true. LM3, Metroid Prime Remastered, Doom, New Pokemon Snap and other games show a clear jump in graphical quality compared to what was available early on in the Switch's life.
Maybe tech doesn't matter to us? We just want good games lolWTF is a "frame rate cronie"?
Honestly, some of the tech talk smacks of silly fanboysim from supporters of the low-powered console.
There is nothing wrong with wanting high resolution, FPS, effects, better sound etc.
Nintendo have amazing artists but games have been held back for years because of poor image quality, lack of AA etc.
Wanting to get the best out of that great art is normal .
This is what I don't get, since when were they mutually exclusive?Maybe tech doesn't matter to us? We just want good games lol
They're not? But I'm not going to complain about 30FPS lol, I grew up with a Nintendo 64.This is what I don't get, since when were they mutually exclusive?
Yeah they're clearly held back considering all the poor reviews ToTK received, especially for its art, graphics and performanceWTF is a "frame rate cronie"?
Honestly, some of the tech talk smacks of silly fanboysim from supporters of the low-powered console.
There is nothing wrong with wanting high resolution, FPS, effects, better sound etc.
Nintendo have amazing artists but games have been held back for years because of poor image quality, lack of AA etc.
Wanting to get the best out of that great art is normal .
I think his point is that their work can and should look better than the tech allows it to be.Yeah they're clearly held back considering all the poor reviews ToTK received, especially for its art, graphics and performance
The thing about luigis mansion and pokemon snap is that they are in very limited controlled enviroments, so they can crank things up because the scale is small. You definitely see more compromises made for games like zelda’s, or mario odyssey for example.Luigi's Mansion 3 says Hi.
BotW is an incredible game, and does what it does superlatively, but to say there hasn't been any advancement in visuals over the life of Switch just isn't true. LM3, Metroid Prime Remastered, Doom, New Pokemon Snap and other games show a clear jump in graphical quality compared to what was available early on in the Switch's life.
WTF is a "frame rate cronie"?
Honestly, some of the tech talk smacks of silly fanboysim from supporters of the low-powered console.
There is nothing wrong with wanting high resolution, FPS, effects, better sound etc.
Nintendo have amazing artists but games have been held back for years because of poor image quality, lack of AA etc.
Wanting to get the best out of that great art is normal .
and that point is complete nonsenseI think his point is that their work can and should look better than the tech allows it to be.
because the actual tech review is largely positive and quite impressed with what they've managed to accomplish on the hardware, and people are still finding ways to spin that as a negative.Why are people shit posting in a tech thread? If you don't care about performance/visuals, then why are you in this thread to begin with?
Oh, I don't disagree with that at all. The post I was replying to was making the argument that graphics technology hasn't improved on the Switch throughout it's life. My point is that whatever one can say about the scope of Luigi's Mansion 3, the rendering techniques on display are far above anything we saw on the console at launch.The thing about luigis mansion and pokemon snap is that they are in very limited controlled enviroments, so they can crank things up because the scale is small. You definitely see more compromises made for games like zelda’s, or mario odyssey for example.
idk why you're putting words in my mouth. I'm just relaying how I interpreted his post. Simmer down buddy.and that point is complete nonsense
ToTK looks outstanding and putting it on PS5 or whatever isn't going to drastically improve the game to Horizon 2 or Witcher 3 levels like you think
People can still be curious about what DF said like wtf is this lmao.Why are people shit posting in a tech thread? If you don't care about performance/visuals, then why are you in this thread to begin with?
Could somebody post screenshots of this, please? I really don't want to watch the video but I'm curious about those two points.
- has edge ringing
- cutscenes are low bitrate video
For some of the older consoles, NES and SNES in particular, a lot of the more impressive later games are the result of the system actually getting more powerful via coprocessors in the cartridge rather than additional optimization. Everyone knows about the Super FX chip, but that's far from the only one that was applied. Some of the later SNES games in particular are basically running on an "SNES Pro" of sorts, via the SA1 chip.That's my ultimate takeaway here. It's pretty sad that a new console basically reached its full potential with a Wii U port on day 1, but that's the state of modern video game consoles and game development I suppose. What you see on day 1 now reflects the entire future of a console (and the same is also true of PS4, PS5, Xbone and Xbox Series).
The days of game developers squeezing every last drop of juice out of a console over its lifetime as they learn the ins and outs of its hardware are long gone. For better or worse, you will never see the same-console advancements that we used to see back in the days of the 16 & 32 bit eras, or even the PS3/360 generation ever again.
Pretty sure they'll send out that patch on release day..Not kidding, I cancelled my pre-order. I want that performance fix on the game card, which is gonna take some time.
Pretty sure they'll send out that patch on release day..
For some of the older consoles, NES and SNES in particular, a lot of the more impressive later games are the result of the system actually getting more powerful via coprocessors in the cartridge rather than additional optimization. Everyone knows about the Super FX chip, but that's far from the only one that was applied. Some of the later SNES games in particular are basically running on an "SNES Pro" of sorts, via the SA1 chip.
I wouldn't say that the machines are being maxed out from day 1 (in certain senses, PS5/XS may never be truly maxed out), but there are a few different things going on. You've got a mix of diminishing returns, consoles that aren't nightmares to develop for, longer development times, and being towards the beginning of a paradigm shift in rendering technology. Earlier titles frequently aren't as unoptimized as they could be, but there's still less obviously visible progression going on.That's true, and the expanded sizes of cartridges over time also made a tremendously huge difference back then too.
But even when comparing like for like, you can see huge gains in performance as developers dug deep into the capabilities of those older machines. Take the Xbox 360 & PS3 for example (which had no such equivilent hardware boost). At the start of their respective lives, you had games like Perfect Dark Zero and Genji 2; which were essentially quickie ports from their respective predecessors. But by the end, you were seeing games like TLOU and Halo 4; which would've been unimaginable when they first launched.
That kind of software familiarity jump just doesn't happen anymore, and that's mostly because consoles (ever since the PS4/Xbone) started being built on off-the-shelf parts that were known quantities and already familiar to developers. Consoles are now essentially just PCs in a box. Even the Switch was based on well known off-the-shelf tech (a standard contemporary ARM CPU and an NVidia GPU directly modelled after the GTX 750 Ti). There aren't any mysteries left for software engineers to solve, today's consoles are simply WYSIWYG; so they're getting maxed out from day 1.
Explains why Splat3 and Switch Sports have FSR in their legal documents, but dont use it.
Yes, the world in TOTK is larger, but it's not like the game is actually loading or rendering the entire thing all in one go; so it's not exactly taxing the system any more than the original BOTW (hence the same level of performance).
The diminishing returns are also very real. There is not that much difference between a character having 100,000,000 polygons versus 1,000,000. But going from 100 to 1,000 polygons is a massive jump. There's not so much that can be done.That's true, and the expanded sizes of cartridges over time also made a tremendously huge difference back then too.
But even when comparing like for like, you can see huge gains in performance as developers dug deep into the capabilities of those older machines. Take the Xbox 360 & PS3 for example (which had no such equivilent hardware boost). At the start of their respective lives, you had games like Perfect Dark Zero and Genji 2; which were essentially quickie ports from their respective predecessors. But by the end, you were seeing games like TLOU and Halo 4; which would've been unimaginable when they first launched.
That kind of software familiarity jump just doesn't happen anymore, and that's mostly because consoles (ever since the PS4/Xbone) started being built on off-the-shelf parts that were known quantities and already familiar to developers. Consoles are now essentially just PCs in a box. Even the Switch was based on well known off-the-shelf tech (a standard contemporary ARM CPU and an NVidia GPU directly modelled after the GTX 750 Ti). There aren't any mysteries left for software engineers to solve, today's consoles are simply WYSIWYG; so they're getting maxed out from day 1.
well, raw polygons is one thing. but shading said polygons is anotherThe diminishing returns are also very real. There is not that much difference between a character having 100,000,000 polygons versus 1,000,000. But going from 100 to 1,000 polygons is a massive jump. There's not so much that can be done.
Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom. already has one of the most advanced lighting systems of any game. With proper global illumination, bounce lighting, color blead. You really can't better there.
Nintendo has a long-ass way from hitting diminishing returns. hell, just having screen space AO would do a lot for Zelda, nevermind ray traced AO
Yes it was confirmed to be using a 32GB cart.Is the game confirmed now to be using a 32GB cart?
Totally bonkers, right? I'm in awe, really. Even more so than with BotW itself, and that one was amazing already. Magicians!I can't even think how dafuq Nintendo programmed all this massive multilayered seamless world, physics-heavy game on 3 A57 cores at 1GHz
I can't even think how dafuq Nintendo programmed all this massive multilayered seamless world, physics-heavy game on 3 A57 cores at 1GHz
Not sure if the A57s are that much better than Latte (or was it Espresso?).I'm more impressed that they got it running on what was essentially 3 turbo Wiis ducktaped together (How many Gamecubes would that be? 12?)
Too bad we didn't have geekbench for the PowerPC daysNot sure if the A57s are that much better than Latte (or was it Espresso?).