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Discussion DidYouKnowGaming: Star Fox Grand Prix: Nintendo Switch Mystery SOLVED! (See Staff Post)

Smaggledaggle said:
I'm not going to speculate but the former ex-Retro Studios employee did say the rumored Star Fox x Metroid crossover was clickbait, but not outright stating it was false, which is interesting to note.
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he's pretty much saying it's false. that's what people calling it clickbait is.
 
Seems like if you want to pass around a fake rumour, Star Fox is one way to get people hook, line, and sinker. I remember when there was also that stupid tale about Koei Tecmo making Star Fox Warriors that people bought into.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
I called this fake all those years ago, and I got a fair bit of shit from people on the old forum, including some that are on this forum now, all because some well known insiders like Emily were entertaining the rumor. It goes to show you that you can never take what insiders say, even Emily and Nate, as truth.

Bryan Walker left Retro sometime after DKCR shipped, so he wouldn't know anything about what was going on with Retro after that point. It seems people will never learn their lesson as far as Retro Studios leaks go. At least it was a wild, entertaining ride though.
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If only you called it fake because you had any more information than the rest of us

always calling stuff fake and vocalizing disbelief of insiders doesn't make you look smart or superior when that clock becomes right twice a day, and it looks worse when you try to flaunt it
 
Chalphy said:
Seems like if you want to pass around a fake rumour, Star Fox is one way to get people hook, line, and sinker. I remember when there was also that stupid tale about Koei Tecmo making Star Fox Warriors that people bought into.
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Difference there is that there was (allegedly) never a Star Fox Musou actually being made, and was simply a rejected proposal. Who knows if there was anything to suggest there's anything more beyond that pitch, but that's something I'd love to read about!

But in any case: even before 2016, there was always various things about Koei Tecmo pitching concepts and wishlists for stuff that they would like to make Musou games out of, some of which has since actually come to pass (see: Fire Emblem, Touken Ranbu). Then you factor in how "Pokemon Musou" was the original pitch before they pivoted to "Pokemon Conquest" and it makes it easy for a lot of chicken and egg.
 
Smaggledaggle said:
I'm not going to speculate but the former ex-Retro Studios employee did say the rumored Star Fox x Metroid crossover was clickbait, but not outright stating it was false, which is interesting to note.
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As much as I love Metroid and Star Fox, I can't parse my brain around how you get such tonally different series to mix together if it's not some goofy thing like Smash Bros.

Speaking of Smash, there was a themed event that had a promo image of the EPD sci-fi series (Metroid, Star Fox, F-Zero and Pikmin) in a big splash image, and Sakurai himself even commented on it and said he thought it was really cool. I was thinking "C'mon, make that into a game!" because if there's anybody who could pull that off, it'd be him.
 
0
Sounds like a bizarre game of Telephone where people hopped onto the rumour to avoid being seen as "not in the know"
 
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I thought we already had the story from people involved? A previously trusted/semi-trusted source for information decided to hoax everyone, or something like that. Some were skeptical, others ran with it.
 
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Starlink adding spaceship races with the Crimson Moon DLC feels like it ended up being an offramp for people who believed this rumor in that it was a plausible excuse to save face and foreclosed the possibility that Star Fox racing would be a thing outside of that. Had it not been for that, I'd wager that you'd see more believers up until now.
 
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Beanstar40 said:
Very interesting. I initially was all in on the rumor, but as time has gone on, I figured it was an elaborate hoax. The details sounded believable, and the logo looked quite professional. Now, id love to get an update on some older switch era rumors, like pokemon stars, or gamecube games on virtual console.
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We obviously know Nintendo has a GCN emulator, but GCN VC is the sort of substance less thing that could have come from anywhere.

Regarding Pokémon Stars, I have no hard evidence of this, but Stars seems like a very likely candidate for the codename for USUM. If there was ever anything resembling substance to the rumor, someone probably attached some real information about USUM to some early engine prototypes for Sword and Shield.
 
LukasManak22 said:
Eurogamer initial report said they heard of it existence lol, I wonder how when it never existed.
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You can hear of its existence from someone who is lying, after all. Games journalism and games "journalism" happen at the same outlet all the time, unfortunately, with sources being unconfirmed.

I think the key part of this story, and the one that gaming fans will never quite clock, is the way "there is so much smoke" is just an overheated echo chamber. I've seen dumb shit I've said in the hardware thread get repeated on other forums, and then get quoted by youtubers, and then people yell at me about how I'm wrong about a rumor I am the originator of (by accident).

We used to call this credibility laundering. Repeat a rumor enough, the fact of the rumor, more than its content, becomes the story. The fact that the rumor exists at all gets reported in "legitimate" media, which is then used to reinforce the rumor's strength so the whole cycle repeats. Even though it was blatantly a hoax this time, it doesn't even need to be malicious. Just say something in the wrong place, and it's like a match on dry kindling
 
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bellydrum said:
If only you called it fake because you had any more information than the rest of us

always calling stuff fake and vocalizing disbelief of insiders doesn't make you look smart or superior when that clock becomes right twice a day, and it looks worse when you try to flaunt it
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Not flaunting anything, I just like to talk about games, and I'm just giving an example of how it's naive to believe everything insiders say when all of them have been wrong at times, and how it's rude to gang up on people who express skepticism for daring to question them.
 
Mr Doggo said:
It's very interesting that there were pitches at retro to make a star fox game.

Personally, i always despised the idea. Retro is Nintendo's most known and skilled subsidiary, i hated the fact that they were doing a racing spin off for a dead ip.
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How was it a dead IP when at the time of the rumor it just got a new game 3 years prior ? (A year prior even, if we count the first release of Star Fox 2 on the SNES Mini !)
Still wouldn't count it as a dead IP either.
It just skipped a generation (if we don't get one on Switch until it's over), which happens very often for Nintendo IPs that aren't Mario/Zelda/Pokémon/Kirby/Fire Emblem.
 
Dark Cloud said:
They said they still don’t know what the cancelled Retro game was from 2018 and they’ve talked to former and current employees. You’re telling me no one at Retro or former employee is willing to talk about it?
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In another DYKG video, I forgot if it's an ex Rare or an ex Retro employee, but they said that you barely ever know about Nintendo cancelled games that never made it public and that are still under NDA because devs are so scared of Nintendo ninjas, they aren't even willing to talk about it anonimously lol
 
TreIII said:
Difference there is that there was (allegedly) never a Star Fox Musou actually being made, and was simply a rejected proposal. Who knows if there was anything to suggest there's anything more beyond that pitch, but that's something I'd love to read about!

But in any case: even before 2016, there was always various things about Koei Tecmo pitching concepts and wishlists for stuff that they would like to make Musou games out of, some of which has since actually come to pass (see: Fire Emblem, Touken Ranbu). Then you factor in how "Pokemon Musou" was the original pitch before they pivoted to "Pokemon Conquest" and it makes it easy for a lot of chicken and egg.
Click to expand...
It never even made sense as a rumour to begin with, and once Fire Emblem Warriors was revealed, any question to the validity of it should have been put to rest.
 
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TheSpaceBetween said:
Not flaunting anything, I just like to talk about games, and I'm just giving an example of how it's naive to believe everything insiders say when all of them have been wrong at times, and how it's rude to gang up on people who express skepticism for daring to question them.
Click to expand...

First off, hey, I know you weren't flaunting anything and sorry for coming across harshly.

The problem is that everybody already understands that insiders sometimes give information that changes or is outdated, or outright misinterpreted. This is the agreement we all consciously make when we listen to them.

So when someone goes out of their way and makes an effort to tell everyone "you know, they're not always right, you can't always trust them", not only is that totally pointless of an observation (because we all already know this), but it sounds like you're just trying to be anti-insider, or you have something against them personally. That's just how it comes across, which is why you get "ganged up on"

The reason people seem like they never question anything insiders say is because we all pretend there's an invisible asterisk after each of our comments that says "assuming this is real, of course", because it's tiring and redundant to make that clarification every time we want to discuss what insiders are saying.

Hopefully this is the last time I have to explain this but I might just copypasta this for the future
 
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It was a time period where just about everything you can think of was being accurately leaked. When there was smoke, usually something turned up. Rumors were correct about the nature of the switch being a hybrid, using cartridges, a bunch of the launch lineup games, and even something that sounded like fanfiction such as Mario Rabbids was real. It basically seemed at the time like anything that was reported on was probably true.

My only point is, I hope people realize it wasn't really foolish or stupid that a lot of folks really believed in its existence. I'm glad we know the full story now.

I really wanted a game set in Star Fox Command's G-Zero ending lol
 
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Mr Doggo said:
It's very interesting that there were pitches at retro to make a star fox game.

Personally, i always despised the idea. Retro is Nintendo's most known and skilled subsidiary, i hated the fact that they were doing a racing spin off for a dead ip.
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I would have rather gotten that than the no game for 5 years we ended up with for that time. The only thing that gave me an inkling of a reason to believe this rumor was that Retro co-developed Mario Kart 7, and I thought maybe they'd want to try their own at a making a racing game in a different IP after moving on from Donkey Kong. But even then, why not make a new F-Zero or a new Wave Race? Why shoehorn racing into an IP that has never had racing in it before. If they were working on Star Fox I would have personally preferred something like Assault which had both in air and on foot missions (though, obviously not be mediocre like that game).
 
MaitreWakou said:
How was it a dead IP when at the time of the rumor it just got a new game 3 years prior ? (A year prior even, if we count the first release of Star Fox 2 on the SNES Mini !)
Still wouldn't count it as a dead IP either.
It just skipped a generation (if we don't get one on Switch until it's over), which happens very often for Nintendo IPs that aren't Mario/Zelda/Pokémon/Kirby/Fire Emblem.
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im only agreeing because you got a dog pfp.

But yeah i guess i should have said something else.

Chaos Theory said:
Do you mean Monolith Soft? Retro haven't held that title since 2007.
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this warrants the word "cope"
 
Chaos Theory said:
We've not seen anything original from Retro for almost ten years, on what basis can you say they're Nintendo's most known and skilled subsidiary, lmao? They are NDCube/1UP tier at best.
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in the time this shit leak appeared retro was still in a reasonable timeframe to release games lol. Also why are you so annoyed by this.

Them being nintendo's most known subsdidiary is still a fact tho. We dont know whether or not they have maintained the quality that they are known and expected of, but there is a reason why they re the only studio that gets headliners for the smallest shit (oh retro hired this guy and this girl and are they doing cinematic or not). It certainly wasnt a mistake from nintendo's part, they always tried to bump them up, reggie always talked about them, miyamoto and the japanese designers always complemented their design, and they constantly slapped their name on all of their games (nintendo and retro studios present), gave them a lot of space for interviews, they were very public for a nintendo studio. You dont get this with the other ones, such as nlg or intsys, for example.

Their popularity could get ruined by a bad MP4 but we arent in that stage yet
 
Mr Doggo said:
in the time this shit leak appeared retro was still in a reasonable timeframe to release games lol. Also why are you so annoyed by this.

Them being nintendo's most known subsdidiary is still a fact tho. We dont know whether or not they have maintained the quality that they are known and expected of, but there is a reason why they re the only studio that gets headliners for the smallest shit (oh retro hired this guy and this girl and are they doing cinematic or not). It certainly wasnt a mistake from nintendo's part, they always tried to bump them up, reggie always talked about them, miyamoto and the japanese designers always complemented their design, and they constantly slapped their name on all of their games (nintendo and retro studios present), gave them a lot of space for interviews, they were very public for a nintendo studio. You dont get this with the other ones, such as nlg or intsys, for example.

Their popularity could get ruined by a bad MP4 but we arent in that stage yet
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To be fair, the long shelved version of MP1 was great of a Remaster. They basically have to "just" make a sequel with the same quality as the original MP and they already get guaranteed 80%, if they bring new stuff in (and attract new customer), they are easily back to greatness again. Before the Remaster I wasn't that confident about it, now I am.
 
invwar said:
To be fair, the long shelved version of MP1 was great of a Remaster. They basically have to "just" make a sequel with the same quality as the original MP and they already get guaranteed 80%, if they bring new stuff in (and attract new customer), they are easily back to greatness again. Before the Remaster I wasn't that confident about it, now I am.
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i dont know, i think stagnation is not the one to bring popularity. For example, what defines mp1 as the go to quality? Within the metroid fanbase many prefer echoes nowadays. And i for example prefer corruption.

But yes, it should be easy for them to even expand their popularity if MP4 is as great as we expect.
 
Chaos Theory said:
We've not seen anything original from Retro for almost ten years, on what basis can you say they're Nintendo's most known and skilled subsidiary, lmao? They are NDCube/1UP tier at best.
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brother this is the clownest shit ive read in weeks what the hell lmao
 
DecoReturns said:
Okay. I watched the video and I’m confused.

Waddledeeknows was an actual person. An account by Jon for an experiment. But here they’re claiming it’s someone else. But wouldn’t people get confused here since Jon literally has a video of him showing the account experiment? I see him getting a lot of messages about this.

Anyways. Yeah. Looks like a complete hoax which many thought after all the info that came after.
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That’s a fucking insane pseudonym to use for this person, all it’s going to do is draw ire Jon’s way.

Anyway, feels like RogersBase should’ve gotten way more flack for this than he did. And I remember in that same podcast hosted by Filip that Peer Schneider would say (as he said about a lot of rumors that were never true) was that “it’s a stunner”. Really irresponsible on IGN’s part. Wild that a rumor like that can get so out of control through actual big-name sites.
 
james said:
lmao whatever you say, ndcube can crank out as much dumpster mario party juice as they want, but that doesnt make them a more impressive dev studio than the people who made metroid prime and tropical freeze.

literal clown take.
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Different time, different Retro Studios. Metroid Prime was 22 years ago.

I genuinely find it astonishing that someone can look at a company such as Retro, who haven't put a new game out in nearly ten years, and claim they are the 'most known and most skilled' subsidiary at Nintendo. What are you basing that on? At least NDcube put out video games.
 
Chaos Theory said:
Different time, different Retro Studios. Metroid Prime was 22 years ago.

I genuinely find it astonishing that someone can look at a company such as Retro, who haven't put a new game out in nearly ten years, and claim they are the 'most known and most skilled' subsidiary at Nintendo. What are you basing that on? At least NDcube put out video games.
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Idk about the NDCube comparison but I completely agree that Retro has not earned a current status of “most skilled subsidiary”. They can’t get a project off the ground without significant guidance from Nintendo. It’s been almost 10 years since they’ve put out one original game.
 
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Please refrain from this gross level of hostility. You are being threadbanned. -xghost777, PixelKnight, Josh5890
Chaos Theory said:
Different time, different Retro Studios. Metroid Prime was 22 years ago.

I genuinely find it astonishing that someone can look at a company such as Retro, who haven't put a new game out in nearly ten years, and claim they are the 'most known and most skilled' subsidiary at Nintendo. What are you basing that on? At least NDcube put out video games.
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i could take a shit in your fucking living room every day for the next ten years and youd probably still appreciate the one time i brought you dinner more but yeah who knows man maybe amiibo festival rules
 
Chaos Theory said:
What are you basing that on? At least NDcube put out video games.
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i literally explained to you. in detail too. I mean i can understand if you think me saying "most skilled subsidiary" is controversial as they havent released a new game yet but the other one? i did that in details lol.
 
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Chaos Theory said:
We've not seen anything original from Retro for almost ten years, on what basis can you say they're Nintendo's most known and skilled subsidiary, lmao? They are NDCube/1UP tier at best.
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Because they've literally created some of the greatest games of all time on par with Nintendo's absolute best offerings. Iwata and Miyamoto themselves have sung their highest praises. Yes, it's been unfortunate what has happened with their post Tropical Freeze endeavors, but Metroid Prime Remastered hints to me that they are still on top of their game and are not going to release anything that isn't of the highest quality.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
Because they've literally created some of the greatest games of all time on par with Nintendo's absolute best offerings. Iwata and Miyamoto themselves have sung their highest praises. Yes, it's been unfortunate what has happened with their post Tropical Freeze endeavors, but Metroid Prime Remastered hints to me that they are still on top of their game and are not going to release anything that isn't of the highest quality.
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Times change, just because you put out high-quality games 10-20 years ago doesn't mean you're entitled to stay at the top forever, especially when studios such as Monolith Soft have put out games such as Xenoblade 1 and heavily assisted with two of the most successful Zelda games ever made.

I agree they could very quickly retake that title if MP4 is a hit, but it's completely unreasonable to suggest that a subsidiary with such unprecedented low output is the 'most skilled and most well known' at Nintendo.
 
Chaos Theory said:
Times change, just because you put out high-quality games 10-20 years ago doesn't mean you're entitled to stay at the top forever, especially when studios such as Monolith Soft have put out games such as Xenoblade 1 and heavily assisted with two of the most successful Zelda games ever made.

I agree they could very quickly retake that title if MP4 is a hit, but it's completely unreasonable to suggest that a subsidiary with such unprecedented low output is the 'most skilled and most well known' at Nintendo.
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if you had said monolith soft instead of ndcube i wouldnt be laughing at you right now, but this is an admittedly good attempt at a pivot
 
Chaos Theory said:
Times change, just because you put out high-quality games 10-20 years ago doesn't mean you're entitled to stay at the top forever, especially when studios such as Monolith Soft have put out games such as Xenoblade 1 and heavily assisted with two of the most successful Zelda games ever made.

I agree they could very quickly retake that title if MP4 is a hit, but it's completely unreasonable to suggest that a subsidiary with such unprecedented low output is the 'most skilled and most well known' at Nintendo.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that they have a lot to prove with MP4, but I do find it odd that you're calling people unreasonable when you're comparing Retro to 1up/NDCube.
 
Yeah Monolith and Nintendo's various EPD studios (do they still go by that) have ascended far beyond Retro.

I wouldn't say they deserve to be looked down upon as NDCube tier but they are definitely closer to Next Level Games in my eyes
 
Chaos Theory said:
Damn, you got me, what a pivot, me only mentioning Monolith just now for the first time in this thread.
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im still waiting for you to address how stupid you sound comparing retro to ndcube, these continued monsoft deflections arent gonna work buddy
 
I won't go into the "who's better between Monolith and Retro" argument because I don't have an opinion, I love both equaly and have high faith in Retro Studios, but I have trouble imagining Retro being more known that Monolith nowadays outside of Nintendo-focused american forums.
 
james said:
im still waiting for you to address how stupid you sound comparing retro to ndcube, these continued monsoft deflections arent gonna work buddy
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NDCube have released two games within the last five years that have sold ~20 M and >5 M copies, respectively. Now given we're debating how 'well known' a studio is, Retro Studios, who haven't released an original game in ten years, are lucky that they're being put on the same level as them, and I have to say, how disrespectful to NDCube, who put out well-loved party games, for them to be considered inferior to a studio who hasn't put out anything new since 2014.

Also very funny how my first post is considered a deflection of my later posts, and apparently I'm the one who sounds stupid?
 
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Chaos Theory said:
NDCube have released two games within the last five years that have sold ~20 M and >5 M copies. Now given we're talking about how 'well known' a studio is, Retro Studios, who haven't released an original game in ten years, are lucky that they're being put on the same level as them, and I have to say, how disrespectful to NDCube, who put out well-loved party games, for them to be considered inferior to a studio who hasn't put out anything new since 2014.
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NDCube games are very formulaic, though, and even though they are a commercial success, they are rarely critically acclaimed.

Retro Studio games, on the other hand, have been at worst, flawed classics and, most of the time, masterpieces in their genre. This also holds true for Monolith, who are also routinely helping internal EPD teams with their project (as do 1UP Studio).

However, unlike NDCube, Monolit, and 1UP (and IntSys and HAL), Retro has indeed been hemorrhaging talents since its inception, and they haven't released a new game in a decade.

So, I don't think it's a black-and-white situation. I agree with you that "most talented and recognizable team" is a hyperbolic statement (and as @MaitreWakou said, one that holds only on Western message boards -- the general gaming population couldn't care less about Retro, and I'm sure they are hardly recognizable by the Japanese fandom). But at the same time, Retro is definitely not a random B-tier team for Nintendo. Granted, if Metroid Prime 4 will not be successful (at least critically), things may change.
 
DecoReturns said:
That’s the thing. They should’ve probably used a different name and not one that has an actual identity behind it lol.

It’s gonna lead to confusion. Tho i doubt this story is gonna gain traction. It’s Been out of the spotlight for so long that probably just a neat thing.
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I mean judging by all these comments, I kinda agree with you.

The small comment in the video doesn't help when people don't pay attention the whole time.
DecoReturns said:
Okay. I watched the video and I’m confused.

Waddledeeknows was an actual person. An account by Jon for an experiment. But here they’re claiming it’s someone else. But wouldn’t people get confused here since Jon literally has a video of him showing the account experiment? I see him getting a lot of messages about this.

Anyways. Yeah. Looks like a complete hoax which many thought after all the info that came after.
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Starphanluke said:
Yeah I'm confused watching this. Are they trying to imply it's Jon? I find that hard to believe.
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Dark Cloud said:
Wait waddledeeknows sent it to ign LMAOOO. I’m dying oh man. I thought that was Jon. My god can we make a movie out of this.
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Gingerbread Man said:
NDCube games are very formulaic, though, and even though they are a commercial success, they are rarely critically acclaimed.

Retro Studio games, on the other hand, have been at worst, flawed classics and, most of the time, masterpieces in their genre. This also holds true for Monolith, who are also routinely helping internal EPD teams with their project (as do 1UP Studio).

However, unlike NDCube, Monolit, and 1UP (and IntSys and HAL), Retro has indeed been hemorrhaging talents since its inception, and they haven't released a new game in a decade.

So, I don't think it's a black-and-white situation. I agree with you that "most talented and recognizable team" is a hyperbolic statement (and as @MaitreWakou said, one that holds only on Western message boards -- the general gaming population couldn't care less about Retro, and I'm sure they are hardly recognizable by the Japanese fandom). But at the same time, Retro is definitely not a random B-tier team for Nintendo. Granted, if Metroid Prime 4 will not be successful (at least critically), things may change.
Click to expand...

First let me say thank you for writing a well-reasoned, well thought out, polite post that doesn't just descend into name calling. I agree that NDCube do not carry the prestige that Retro do, but I think calling Retro the most skilled and well-known subsidiary is giving far too much benefit of the doubt for a studio that hasn't released a new game in almost ten years (which in many cases is two or three development cycles for a studio, and is unprecedented in this industry); furthermore, NDCube putting out a ~20 M seller is quite an accomplishment within itself. It's why I think—balancing NDCube's recent successful output with Retro's history of critical acclaim—putting them on a similar level, at least as things stand, is fair, while fully acknowledging that Retro are posed to immediately ascend the subsidiary rankings were Prime 4 to be another critical hit, which I hope it is.
 
Chaos Theory said:
NDCube have released two games within the last five years that have sold ~20 M and >5 M copies, respectively. Now given we're debating how 'well known' a studio is, Retro Studios, who haven't released an original game in ten years, are lucky that they're being put on the same level as them, and I have to say, how disrespectful to NDCube, who put out well-loved party games, for them to be considered inferior to a studio who hasn't put out anything new since 2014.
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good for them, tbh i bet most folks wouldnt be able to tell you who ndcube or retro are if you asked them who made mario party or metroid prime. the overwhelming majority of the 20million people who bought super mario party would probably just say 'nintendo' if you asked them who made it lmao

now here on nintendo nerd central, family boards dot com my bet would be that more people would know who retro are than ndcube, by name. the real hyper nerds might know both, but generally speaking retros games carry clout worthy of knowing who makes them. so really i think youre probably wrong on both fronts here, but i know for a fact youre wrong about 'skill.'

Chaos Theory said:
Also very funny how my first post is considered a deflection of my later posts, and apparently I'm the one who sounds stupid?
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yea
 
AllEchse said:
I mean judging by all these comments, I kinda agree with you.

The small comment in the video doesn't help when people don't pay attention the whole time.
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In my defense, I made the mistake of watching/listening to the video while driving, so I wasn't paying enough attention. It is more obvious when I rewatched the video with full attention, tbh.
 
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Gingerbread Man said:
NDCube games are very formulaic, though, and even though they are a commercial success, they are rarely critically acclaimed.

Retro Studio games, on the other hand, have been at worst, flawed classics and, most of the time, masterpieces in their genre. This also holds true for Monolith, who are also routinely helping internal EPD teams with their project (as do 1UP Studio).

However, unlike NDCube, Monolit, and 1UP (and IntSys and HAL), Retro has indeed been hemorrhaging talents since its inception, and they haven't released a new game in a decade.

So, I don't think it's a black-and-white situation. I agree with you that "most talented and recognizable team" is a hyperbolic statement (and as @MaitreWakou said, one that holds only on Western message boards -- the general gaming population couldn't care less about Retro, and I'm sure they are hardly recognizable by the Japanese fandom). But at the same time, Retro is definitely not a random B-tier team for Nintendo. Granted, if Metroid Prime 4 will not be successful (at least critically), things may change.
Click to expand...

The only talent hemorrhage was after Prime 3. No studio is the same as they were 20 years ago. They've actually done fairly well retaining talent and a decent amount of people that worked on the Prime games are still there.
 
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