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Discussion Between Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door, Peach, Endless Ocean, and Luigi’s Mansion, will Paper Mario be the only 80+ scored Nintendo exclusive?

Will The Thousand Year Door be the only 80+ rated Nintendo exclusive in 2024?

  • Yes

    Votes: 39 23.4%

  • No, Luigi's Mansion 2 HD will score higher than 80

    Votes: 72 43.1%

  • No, Endless Ocean Luminous will score higher than 80

    Votes: 38 22.8%

  • No, Princess Peach Showtime will score higher than 80

    Votes: 59 35.3%

  • Based on this list, Nintendo won't release a game that scores higher than 80 in 2024

    Votes: 18 10.8%
  • Total voters
    167
It's incredibly weird to me that games for a younger audience always do worse critically. Titles like Sekiro don't seem to have their critical reception impacted on account of catering to an audience that appreciates additional difficulty, but titles in the opposite direction always seem to do worse on account of it.

Everything about Peach looks like a game that should score extremely well, especially in context of its target demographic.
 
Josh5890 said:
My 2024 Nintendo MC predictions.

[...]
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess- 88
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jeff-gerstmann-grin.gif
 
Peach would probably get mid 80's at least (there's a lot we still don't know about game yet though).

LM2HD would probably score 80+ as well.

EO:Lum is a big ? mark for me. They would need to make gameplay loop more fun, otherwise, they might get mid-70s again. I've never played EO so I'm not sure what a typical gameplay loop looks like in those games.
 
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daybreak said:
It's incredibly weird to me that games for a younger audience always do worse critically. Titles like Sekiro don't seem to have their critical reception impacted on account of catering to an audience that appreciates additional difficulty, but titles in the opposite direction always seem to do worse on account of it.

Everything about Peach looks like a game that should score extremely well, especially in context of its target demographic.
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It's because people who write reviews of video games for a living are adults who play a lot of video games, and thus often have higher-than-average skill. People who like a challenge often find easier games boring.

Mind you, I do agree with you. I think it somewhat speaks to the immaturity of the medium that professionals are often not able to play the game on its own terms. For instance, it's not like you see this with film - Pixar regularly makes (or used to make 😔) films that have strong a critical reception as any other film.
 
daybreak said:
It's incredibly weird to me that games for a younger audience always do worse critically. Titles like Sekiro don't seem to have their critical reception impacted on account of catering to an audience that appreciates additional difficulty, but titles in the opposite direction always seem to do worse on account of it.

Everything about Peach looks like a game that should score extremely well, especially in context of its target demographic.
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It comes down to expectations. You have a franchise (Mario) that appeals to kids and adults, and when certain games don't live up to the difficulty and depth adults demand for, that will bring it down. Hell, nevermind difficulty, sometimes a game can be easy and still get a really rock solid score. It's depth what it comes down to.

"Even if the game is easy, is there more I can get out of it to make my experience not shallow?"

This is where things like 100% runs in Kirby come in, or score attacks, replay value, etc.

The only time it doesn't seem to have that impact is when people really don't expect much of the game. I recall a Paw Patrol switch game getting relatively high scores at a time, mainly because the game kinda exceeded the low bar people expect for kids games, by being functional and having some level of depth beyond what people expect. That and I think a lot of the reviewers were parents.
 
hologram said:
It's because people who write reviews of video games for a living are adults who play a lot of video games, and thus often have higher-than-average skill. People who like a challenge often find easier games boring.

Mind you, I do agree with you. I think it somewhat speaks to the immaturity of the medium that professionals are often not able to play the game on its own terms. For instance, it's not like you see this with film - Pixar regularly makes (or used to make 😔) films that have strong a critical reception as any other film.
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Yeah, I think this is a good comparison. Movies for all-ages or a younger demographic are still received well by critics.

Mer.Saloon said:
It comes down to expectations. You have a franchise (Mario) that appeals to kids and adults, and when certain games don't live up to the difficulty and depth adults demand for, that will bring it down. Hell, nevermind difficulty, sometimes a game can be easy and still get a really rock solid score. It's depth what it comes down to.
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I'd say that all of the marketing surrounding the Peach game has been appropriately upfront about the game being for a younger target audience. Same with Mario vs Donkey Kong.

That aside, I could very easily see Peach scoring 80+. It seems to be well-made, has a high production value, and previews were very positive.
 
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I would only consider TTYD a guarantee for getting an 80+.

Endless Ocean won't based on the reception of past entries.

Peach's previews make it clear the game is just gimmick after gimmick with no gameplay depth.

Luigi's Mansion 2 HD could get an 80+ since it scored really well on 3DS. I think the biggest knock against it is how visually unimpressive the remaster looks and just that LM2 hasn't kept that great of a reputation over time with it being seen as the weakest of the three games in the series.
 
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Princess Peach: Showtime- 79-84, possibly higher if we have missed something in the trailers or reviewers do the "my kids love it" thing which more happens in movie reviews. Not that's a bad thing. Heck maybe people just have more fun with a simple game than we expect.

Endless Ocean: Luminous- 73-75, I think it does okay, vibes tend to get a little more emphasis in reviews these days.

Luigis Mansion 2 HD- 75-79, being a pretty basic 3ds port and having the mission structure where you are instantly booted from level upon completion, not even allowing you to finishing exploring, will hurt the games reviews for sure, especially because its not particularly cheap for what it is. And its competing with 3 on the same consoles. A game that no doubt was boosted by its terrific presentation.

Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War remake- 83-85, engage got 80 and its very...sillyish?, and series fans servicey? (all your favorite's are here just like our mobile game). I could see genealogy do a bit better.

Paper Mario: TTYD HD- 84-86, og was 87, rpg remake was 84ish. Seems about right. It is a visual overhaul so that might help it. Possible for its to meet a new audience this time, I could see it do better than expected.

Potentials:

WW HD port, og 90, this time like 86-87, I think unconscious comparisons to BOTW/TOTK will hurt it. Its also a port of a port, hard to get excited unless they add anything substantial.

TP HD port, og 86, this time 84-85, same as WW

Metroid Prime 2 basic port, 82-87, Prime 1 remaster did well but was a substantial visual overhaul, Prime 2 did quite well on GC at 92, but I feel older visuals, and some gameplay elements may hold it back in 2024.

Metroid Prime 4- 87-94 I have no idea. It could be terrible for all we know, probably not though.
 
HotelDrink said:
Remasters have gotten lower scores than the original on Metacritic before.

TTYD is my favorite game and I was surprised the first time I saw the score. Only an 87?
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I think JRPG and "kiddie" GameCube Nintendo games were viewed more harshly back then by the press and gaming public. TTYD also came out only 4 years after 64 so it wasn't as fresh.
 
I still think Peach will score better than most people online think. Most likely not 90s but definitely 80s. I'd be very surprised if it was sub 80 scores.
 
daybreak said:
It's incredibly weird to me that games for a younger audience always do worse critically. Titles like Sekiro don't seem to have their critical reception impacted on account of catering to an audience that appreciates additional difficulty, but titles in the opposite direction always seem to do worse on account of it.
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It's a narrative about gaming as a whole thing. A lot of the US games press tends to prefer certain types of genres and likes to push a specific narrative. That narrative is always one of growth and advancement (which games that require "being skillful" have a somewhat inherent advantage at since you can always test player skills in new ways). Games like Peach: Showtime that explicitly aim at a younger audience are looked down on in scores because they don't fit that narrative. It's usually a toss-up on if they're well received because nobody in the games press wants to risk that Peach: Showtime could end up being their statistical GOTY so to speak, which inherently caps their max score. (As for my personal opinion - why couldn't Peach: Showtime be someone's GOTY? If they enjoyed it that much, why not?)

A related result is also that often reviewers don't even give these types of games a fair shake/meet them on their own merit. I've seen more than one review for games that are aimed at groups outside the US games press where the reviewer essentially just decided to not meet the game on it's own terms and instead wrote an entire review in which they complained about it being a different game from what they wanted it to be. As in the "why are you trying to order ice cream in a DIY construction store" style of review.

There's also a related problem with how notable outlets tend to operate too; most of them rely on reviewers essentially picking a game for the week to review rather than trying to specialize their reviewers into certain game genres. That's more a problem with other genres though; I could go my entire life without reading another JRPG review from a guy mostly known for hating JRPGs for example - those reviews lack substance. Same thing tends to happens with media that aim at a younger audience (not just in games though, this is a problem with movies too).

Non-US outlets usually fare better on this for bigger titles that don't aim at the general audience for games (like Peach: Showtime) due to most non-US outlets not really covering much besides the major releases from the largest developers.
 
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daybreak said:
It's incredibly weird to me that games for a younger audience always do worse critically. Titles like Sekiro don't seem to have their critical reception impacted on account of catering to an audience that appreciates additional difficulty, but titles in the opposite direction always seem to do worse on account of it.

Everything about Peach looks like a game that should score extremely well, especially in context of its target demographic.
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I'm not familiar with kids games outside of things like Yoshi and Kirby and the like.

Peach seems to do well on what it's set out to do, but it's also a full 60 euros, even tho it looks rather simple and short. And it doesn't really do anything new or interesting either. The best thing about it is its presentation and visuals. In that sense I don't see it getting a high score.
 
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I'm not really not seeing a world where Peach has a higher ceiling than mid-high 70s. The previews weren't what I would call enthusiastic and many cited its simplistic, shallow gameplay elements. Something like Mario v DK scores for Peach would probably be great.
 
Razgriz said:
It's an engagement thing. A lot of the US games press tends to prefer certain types of genres and likes to push a specific narrative. That narrative is always one of growth and advancement (which games that require "being skillful" have a somewhat inherent advantage at since you can always test player skills in new ways). Games like Peach: Showtime that explicitly aim at a younger audience are looked down on in scores because they don't fit that narrative. It's usually a toss-up on if they're well received because nobody in the games press wants to risk that Peach: Showtime could end up being their statistical GOTY so to speak, which inherently caps their max score. (As for my personal opinion - why couldn't Peach: Showtime be someone's GOTY? If they enjoyed it that much, why not?)

A related result is also that often reviewers don't even give these types of games a fair shake/meet them on their own merit. I've seen more than one review for games that are aimed at groups outside the US games press where the reviewer essentially just decided to not meet the game on it's own terms and instead wrote an entire review in which they complained about it being a different game from what they wanted it to be. As in the "why are you trying to order ice cream in a DIY construction store" style of review.

There's also a related problem with how notable outlets tend to operate too; most of them rely on reviewers essentially picking a game for the week to review rather than trying to specialize their reviewers into certain game genres. That's more a problem with other genres though; I could go my entire life without reading another JRPG review from a guy mostly known for hating JRPGs for example - those reviews lack substance.

Non-US outlets usually fare better on this for bigger titles that don't aim at the general audience for games (like Peach: Showtime) due to most non-US outlets not really covering much besides the major releases from the largest developers.
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Not really sure how ’most non- US games press don’t cover much outside major releases’. Edge and Eurogamer cover a fair variety of oddball stuff in addition to mainstream stuff here. I follow a lot of channels that cover a range of indie stuff too, SwitchUp is great for this.

I also think there’s a value in having games reviewed by fresh eyes as much as by the ‘staff expert in this genre’. All games should be able to welcome new players without assuming familiarity with tropes or that they’ve played a previous one in the genre, which is why player’s handbooks for tabletop rpgs don’t assume the reader knows exactly what a hit point or skill proficiency is. While, for the genres I play a lot of, I tend to read the reviews written by people that know what they are talking about, for the genres I barely play at all, I’d also rather read a review similarly by someone who isn’t going into it fully familiar with the genre tropes and thus has long forgotten what it’s like to experience the genre the first time.
 
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I'd love to see Peach get 80+.

But I have a feeling it's gonna get a lot of 7s.
 
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PixelKnight said:
Not really sure how ’most non- US games press don’t cover much outside major releases’. Edge and Eurogamer cover a fair variety of oddball stuff in addition to mainstream stuff here. I follow a lot of channels that cover a range of indie stuff too, SwitchUp is great for this.
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I should've been more clear I guess. Make it non-anglo. I'm saying this from experience in how the Dutch games press covers things. Unless you're a "known" AAA developer, you won't get coverage here. It tends to be to my knowledge similar in other non-anglo European outlets.

PixelKnight said:
I also think there’s a value in having games reviewed by fresh eyes as much as by the ‘staff expert in this genre’.
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Agreed but you just won't find that in the games press to begin with. By the nature of games reviewing being well, someone's job, you're not going to get an outsider/fresh perspective; all reviewers have to play more or less 1 game each week.

After a while that results in some pretty harsh preferences developing because they've waded through that much crap already. It's why the games press tends to come down much harder on games that repeat the current trend compared to how those games tend to actually sell.

That combined with how reviewers pick their games means that there's a risk of forming "anti-experts", where people known for disliking a genre (which they also know about themselves) start only playing that genre, resulting in them just not giving the games a fair chance. Which happens more with certain genres, particularly those that are easy to ridicule.
 
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Paper Mario should definitely be over 80.
Luigi's Mansion 2 should also be able to do so unless they fuck up big time somehow.
I do hope Peach does too but I expect it to be in the low 70s.
Maybe the Pokémon game can do it.
Metroid Prime 2 or 4 - whichever we are getting - should also be comfortably above 80.
Hopefully Fire Emblem 4 remake will also pass the mark.
 
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hologram said:
For instance, it's not like you see this with film - Pixar regularly makes (or used to make 😔) films that have strong a critical reception as any other film.
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Not sure that’s really the best example. Critics didn’t score older Pixar movies highly just because they were good kids movies; they had a ton of thematic depth in their own right, along with incredibly impressive presentation for animation. I’d argue that aligns very well with how some of Nintendo’s modern output is received: Mario Wonder is not difficult in the slightest outside of postgame content, but it was still received incredibly well for its inventiveness and depth.

If Princess Peach has that same level of depth, it will be received similarly. But if it doesn’t, it’ll get docked points. Just like how a true “kids movie” is never gonna receive top acclaim. Pixar, like Mario, was able to straddle the line and make films that appeal to everyone, and those are often received very well.
 
My nephew watches a lot of shit on YouTube. Most, I would rate very lowly. Some are even creepy. It's a hit with him, but he has low critical faculties.

Bluey and Numberblocks on the other hand? 10/10.
 
Pokemon game, if it's a Legends game, will be over 80 MC too. Unfortunately, I think Pokemon will be a sub 75 series from now, at least until GF got things right.
 
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tender said:
Endless Ocean 1 & 2 were that low? We need to stop game journalism until we know what the hell is going on.
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EGM refused to review the first Endless Ocean because it had no bosses and wasn't a "real game" and instead did a mini article mocking it. Gaming journalists weren't taking it seriously back then.
 
TheQuietone said:
EGM refused to review the first Endless Ocean because it had no bosses and wasn't a "real game" and instead did a mini article mocking it. Gaming journalists weren't taking it seriously back then.
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True Endless Ocean players know that the first game does have a boss fight and that boss is trying to get through the abyss without getting too scared… the reviewers probably didn’t even make it that far….
 


After watching the IGN preview I think I'll take back what I said about Peach. It can definitely go past 80.

If anything the graphical showcase that the game is(really close to Luigi's Mansion 3 imo) will earn some points.

The gameplay variety and not being consistent might actually be the whole identity of the game and be something that people will love like in LM3 and Odyssey and not something that would hurt the experience.

Apparently the game is rather easy but doesn't look like it's Yoshi's Crafted World or Kirby Epic Yarn levels.
 
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Truno said:
NOTE: This poll is based on Nintendo's current line-up for the remainder of 2024. This list is subject to change (and it most surely will). But, for the purpose of this thread, we're only considering Nintendo's line-up after their first major presentation in 2024.

Splatoon 3: Side Order (and any additional DLC) also aren't counted for the purpose of this thread.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As of today, this is Nintendo's exclusive line-up for the Nintendo Switch in 2024:

Already released:
Another Code: Recollection - 73 MC/75 OC
Mario vs. Donkey Kong - 77 MC/78 OC

Upcoming:
Princess Peach: Showtime! - ?? MC/?? OC

Preview excerpts:
Eurogamer

IGN

Luigi's Mansion 2 HD - ?? MC/?? OC
  • Note that Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon has a 86 in Metacritic.
  • The only improvements highlighted so far are graphical. Anything else remains unknown.
  • Price point is not known.
Endless Ocean Luminous - ?? MC/?? OC
  • Endless Ocean currently has a 72 score in Metacritic.
  • Endless Ocean: Blue World has a 76 score in Metacritic.
Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door - ?? MC/?? OC
  • TTYD has an 87 in Metacritic, the highest in this list.
  • Improvements showcased so far are: completely remade models, new NPCs, new sprite art for the back of all characters, and Paper Mario 64 music as highlighted in the reveal trailer. Any additional improvements or new content remains to be seen.
  • Trailer caused concern that the game is now 30fps. The original GameCube release was 60fps.
  • Price point is unknown.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As I mentioned, this list is subject to change. Rumored titles like Metroid Prime 4 or Fire Emblem 4 are the top candidates to score well with reviewers. But, based on Nintendo's current line-up, do you think that TTYD will be the only Nintendo release to score above an 80 in 2024?
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It's interesting that I just saw this thread because I just saw that GameStop has prepared listing for both Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door at $60 each! I don't know if this changes anyone's thoughts on the question but I just watched to add on that there's a possibility both may be $60 USD! :D
 
Fire Emblem 4 has been heavily rumored for like 2 years, that should be an easy 80+. Even Engage despite its mixed reception got a solid 80.
 
Síriocaz said:
That's interesring. Last I checked, the game was sitting in the sub-70s.
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Nope

Fire Emblem Engage

In a war against the Fell Dragon, four kingdoms worked together with heroes from other worlds to seal away this great evil. One-thousand years later, this seal has weakened and the Fell Dragon is about to reawaken. As a Divine Dragon, use rich strategies and robust customization to meet your...
www.metacritic.com www.metacritic.com
 
3dsboss said:
It's interesting that I just saw this thread because I just saw that GameStop has prepared listing for both Luigi's Mansion 2 HD and Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door at $60 each! I don't know if this changes anyone's thoughts on the question but I just watched to add on that there's a possibility both may be $60 USD! :D
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It depends in both cases as we've yet to get deep dives on what new additions they have (if any). If it's a, 'what we see is what we get' type of situation, then I think Luigi's Mansion 2 will get way more blowback than TTYD for this.
 
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Djehuty said:
It’s pretty good but comaored to other jrpg’s it kinda fall in the middle of the pack.
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I thought about all the RPGs I've played since video games became a regular thing in the 1980s and I'm comfortable putting TTYD together with the best
 
DittoM said:
Nope

Fire Emblem Engage

In a war against the Fell Dragon, four kingdoms worked together with heroes from other worlds to seal away this great evil. One-thousand years later, this seal has weakened and the Fell Dragon is about to reawaken. As a Divine Dragon, use rich strategies and robust customization to meet your...
www.metacritic.com www.metacritic.com
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No, I meant before checking today.
 
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Thunder84 said:
Not sure that’s really the best example. Critics didn’t score older Pixar movies highly just because they were good kids movies; they had a ton of thematic depth in their own right, along with incredibly impressive presentation for animation. I’d argue that aligns very well with how some of Nintendo’s modern output is received: Mario Wonder is not difficult in the slightest outside of postgame content, but it was still received incredibly well for its inventiveness and depth.

If Princess Peach has that same level of depth, it will be received similarly. But if it doesn’t, it’ll get docked points. Just like how a true “kids movie” is never gonna receive top acclaim. Pixar, like Mario, was able to straddle the line and make films that appeal to everyone, and those are often received very well.
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But I think that actually kinda makes my point. If it's about depth, not challenge, then why is challenge brought up? The reviewer or player gets bored by the lack of depth, and thinks "I am bored and this game is easy" and assumes there's a causal relationship there.

I also think the reverse absolutely can be true - a reviewer or player can be playing a relatively shallow but difficult game, and mistake that difficulty for depth.
 
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Princess Peach currently has a 77 on OC and 74 on MC.

Considering that Luigi's Mansion 2 is worth $60 ($20 dollars more than the original) I guess that it's between Endless Ocean and TTYD
 
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Even Splatoon 3 Side Order ended up below an 80 review average. This is just the year of below 80s averages for Nintendo I guess.
 
Eh, I don’t think it’s worth getting caught up on review scores. I’ve come to realize it’s better to just like what you like. We don’t need numbers to validate our opinions
 
Hylianhero777 said:
Do we though

Even Origami King didn't review absolutely outstanding or anything (80 MC 78 OC). I think TTYD has a pretty good shot of reviewing above that
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Most likely but TTYD's strengths as well as shortcomings have become even more pronounced in the past two decades. Back when reviewers only had PM64 as a point of comparison they reviewed TTYD significantly worse (MC 93 vs. 87), curious how it will review in '24.
 
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Beanstar40 said:
Eh, I don’t think it’s worth getting caught up on review scores. I’ve come to realize it’s better to just like what you like. We don’t need numbers to validate our opinions
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The need to power scale in nerd fandom is universal
 
Isn't it logical to assume Luigi's Mansion 2 HD will get over 80 also?

Hold on, let me check the original score.

EDIT: Yeah, there's no way HD doesn't get over 80.
 
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And Endless Ocean debuts with a whopping 60 on OpenCritic.

Peach currently sits at 75.

TTYD is Nintendo’s only hope…
 
Damn unless Nintendo’s got some bangers for the second half of the year 2024 might be the Switch’s worst year yet outside of maybe 2018 (and 2020 but that was at least understandable given the global situation).

Thank god for backlogs.
 
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