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As someone who loved the immersion and worldbuilding of the first movie, I am ready to revisit Pandora
I guess this means a teaser is dropping soon
It's playing exclusively in front of Doctor Strange and then will be online the week after (so probably May 7th or 8th-ish).View attachment 358
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As someone who loved the immersion and worldbuilding of the first movie, I am ready to revisit Pandora
I guess this means a teaser is dropping soon
It's the single biggest film of all time, and it pretty much set the standard for modern blockbusters in terms of motion capture, virtual sets, CGI fidelity, etc.I never saw the original Avatar; is it really such a groundbreaking movie that this whole gigantic franchise needs to be built around it? Are people honestly going to care?
Yes and yes. A director making their own socio-politically relevant and technologically innovative franchise like this hasn't been a thing since Lucas owned Star Wars. I think the fact that these movies are environmentally conscious blockbusters that try to get people to notice the real world destruction justifies their existence. I don't think Cameron was being too hyperbolic when he said he was trying to save the planet through this series.I never saw the original Avatar; is it really such a groundbreaking movie that this whole gigantic franchise needs to be built around it? Are people honestly going to care?
True. It is wholly original, I didn't consider that.Yes and yes. A director making their own socio-politically relevant and technologically innovative franchise like this hasn't been a thing since Lucas owned Star Wars. I think the fact that these movies are environmentally conscious blockbusters that try to get people to notice the real world destruction justifies their existence. I don't think Cameron was being too hyperbolic when he said he was trying to save the planet through this series.
Did you expect it to be unrecognizableJust watched the trailer... Yup, that's Avatar alright...
Probably little. If you were sold on a sequel in 2010 I'm not sure why you wouldn't be sold on a sequel in 2022i trusts cameron enough that im hyped for this, the trailer looks pretty sweet.
i am curious how the huge gap between movies will effect its reception
That's the scifi shit I'd love to see. I could see it happening if it tied into a theme of the ethical repercussions of white man inhabiting and adopting native cultures (see: white dude literally inhabiting the body of a native body with dreads, tribal tattoos, etc.)I really want them to do a story where Sully realizes that his Avatar has its own consciousness that's trying to re emerge, and where the two of them have to wrestle for control while the human/Navi war rages around them, and everything is suitably dark and psychological.
I kind of thought that was what they were setting up in the first film with the shots of the Avatar in the tank in the first film, clearly dreaming while unconscious. But it ended up going not that way.That's the scifi shit I'd love to see. I could see it happening if it tied into a theme of the ethical repercussions of white man inhabiting and adopting native cultures (see: white dude literally inhabiting the body of a native body with dreads, tribal tattoos, etc.)
Yeah I agree. It's not that I think he wouldn't do it, or that he couldn't do it well, but that it's probably just not the focus of his story.Cameron is exactly the sort of film maker I could see taking the story in that direction if he really wanted to. He's not exactly averse to dark, psychologically tense blockbusters. But it's probably more likely that he just wants to showcase Pandora more, and have a nice family friendly story as the basis for that.
Yeah I agree. It's not that I think he wouldn't do it, or that he couldn't do it well, but that it's probably just not the focus of his story.
At its core the Avatar series is simultaneously a message of environmentalism / anti-colonialism, and a showcase of a world that Cameron really wanted to make and is proud of
I really want them to do a story where Sully realizes that his Avatar has its own consciousness that's trying to re emerge, and where the two of them have to wrestle for control while the human/Navi war rages around them, and everything is suitably dark and psychological.
As it is, as long as there's less white saviour stuff this time round, I'm perfectly content to see a big CG film about the importance of family.
I always thought the white savior critique was pretty baseless, since Jake's plan fails and he almost dies. Even him taming that dragon thing is just following through that he's a rash decision maker, rather than him out nativing the natives.
The last Samurai, Dances with wolves and LaLa Land cover the same things, none of this subverts the white savior trope. The fact that the white person is the special one who does something special with the culture theyre appropriating in an attempt to preserve it is the issue.Anyway my point is the movie is actually far more anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist and anti-white than people give it credit for. James Cameron literally tells audiences that the only way to fight against the evil empire is to give your body and sacrifice your life to the cause.
The protagonist of Avatar is not appropriating the Na'vi culture. To appropriate the culture, he would have to adopt elements of the Na'vi culture in a disrespectful or exploitative way.The last Samurai, Dances with wolves and LaLa Land cover the same things, none of this subverts the white savior trope. The fact that the white person is the special one who does something special with the culture theyre appropriating in an attempt to preserve it is the issue.
Perfectly put.White Saviour isn't when the white hero gets nothing but A+
White Saviour is when the white hero consistently gets C's and D's but still ends up top of the class
The white savior trope has its roots in 19th century 'progressive' thinking that whiteys have to lift natives out of their own self inflicted problems through western thought. It's explicitly meant to foster a belief in white supremacy. A movie where some dude literally rejects his skin and helps the natives with stopping American style imperialism/exploitation, direct products of whiteness, didn't leave people thinking "being white is so cool." I get that westerners who don't know history are just inherently uncomfortable with the idea of a white guy with a native chief's daughter, but it's usage in Avatar isn't some exercise of mighty whitey accomplishing that through his western masculine supremacy over the savages.The critique certainly is not baseless.
I mean that's what I'm basically saying. But I said that the "white savior" criticism isn't baseless - people aren't necessarily wrong or bad for making those accusations, they're just not picking up on the subversion of the trope and the way the movie throws it in our faces.The white savior trope has its roots in 19th century 'progressive' thinking that whiteys have to lift natives out of their own self inflicted problems through western thought. It's explicitly meant to foster a belief in white supremacy. A movie where some dude literally rejects his skin and helps the natives with stopping American style imperialism/exploitation, direct products of whiteness, didn't leave people thinking "being white is so cool." I get that westerners who don't know history are just inherently uncomfortable with the idea of a white guy with a native chief's daughter, but it's usage in Avatar isn't some exercise of mighty whitey accomplishing that through his western masculine supremacy over the savages.
The movie contradicts the idea that the hero is a "white savior" because he permanently throws away his whiteness and forever rejects humanity as a gesture of solidarity with those that are being oppressed by his people.
The only difference between this scene and Avatar is technology.
White Savior does not explicitly mean they "save the day." It means the outsider, usually a white male because of society's social construct of what is supreme, goes into a culture and reveals/enriches things about the culture the people themselves cannot.
The fact that Sully does succeed makes it more egregorius, since both dances and last Samurai are far more realistic in how they resolve.
You've already admitted Jake being able to tame the special bird was something that can't be accounted for in your view, and yet now you're trying to ignore it.My entire point is that you're throwing out a lot of nuance
This isn't the "gotcha" you think it is... the fact that you think I'm trying to ignore it is exactly why I'm saying our conversation has no nuance. It's not a conversation, it's you trying to educate me on something I already know while ignoring everything I'm saying. You're having some serious misreads on my point and my motivation. I feel like we're participating in different discussions.You've already admitted Jake being able to tame the special bird was something that can't be accounted for in your view, and yet now you're trying to ignore it.
Alright, I already know these definitions, and I didn't need it simplified. We're clearly having two different discussions if you feel the need to educate me on this.Wikipedia even has a simpler definition:
Comparing this to Gonzalo Guerrero is a little disingenuous I think. This movie was not made during the early era of European colonialism. It was produced and distributed centuries after Europeans ravaged the Americas. It's a sci-fi allegory that invites the audience to make those comparisons, and when we know the totality of European colonization and its effects, it's certainly going to make people think more of the damage and racism caused by it rather than a cross culture dynamic that was fostered well before everything that's happened since.The white savior trope has its roots in 19th century 'progressive' thinking that whiteys have to lift natives out of their own self inflicted problems through western thought. It's explicitly meant to foster a belief in white supremacy. A movie where some dude literally rejects his skin and helps the natives with stopping American style imperialism/exploitation, direct products of whiteness, didn't leave people thinking "being white is so cool." I get that westerners who don't know history are just inherently uncomfortable with the idea of a white guy with a native chief's daughter, but it's usage in Avatar isn't some exercise of mighty whitey accomplishing that through his western masculine supremacy over the savages.
There's plenty of nuance to how Avatar utilizes the white savior trope, but a white man physically embodying another culture is text not subtext.If I just say sure, you're right, Avatar is 100% a white savior flick with no nuance and no subversion, played completely straight, with no redeeming messages or qualities and no need for discussion, will you be satisfied and end this conversation with me?