BowserIsMyFather
Moblin
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News Analogue Will Release Analogue 3D - A 4K Output FGPA N64 - in 2024
- Thread starter BowserIsMyFather
- Start date
crepuscule
Bob-omb
The Pocket was great because it's a portable FPGA machine that allowed devs to make cores for systems that weren't officially supported but with singlular home consoles that don't support support OpenFPGA I'm not sure there's much point to dealing with Analogue.
Playing original cartridges and flash carts is great but it's not worth the price + insane shipping + taxes/duties etc per console for me at least.
I think I heard an N64 core is only just came out a few months ago for MiSTer but given how long Analogue takes it could be in a good place by release. And then there's that MARS FPGA as well.
Playing original cartridges and flash carts is great but it's not worth the price + insane shipping + taxes/duties etc per console for me at least.
I think I heard an N64 core is only just came out a few months ago for MiSTer but given how long Analogue takes it could be in a good place by release. And then there's that MARS FPGA as well.
Joy-Boy
Bob-omb
This is super cool, and I'm glad we're at the point where we can get stuff like this for N64. I've only seen footage of the Pocket, but it looks divine and I'm sure this will look great too.
Honestly though, I think I'm satisfied with just NSO. It's got almost every major first party game I want, with more coming over time, it's on my most played hardware, and I dont know if the few remaining third party/licensed games are going to be worth the few hundreds this will cost.
Plus at this point, buying a cart of any first party N64 game I don't have could just give me over a year of NSO anyways.
Maybe when Switch 2 rolls around, the NSO app will get DLSS'd to 4K. I doubt it'll look as good as the Analouge will, but I think it'll be good enough.
If this had come a few years ago, I would have been all over it, but I think it's cool that it's here.
Honestly though, I think I'm satisfied with just NSO. It's got almost every major first party game I want, with more coming over time, it's on my most played hardware, and I dont know if the few remaining third party/licensed games are going to be worth the few hundreds this will cost.
Plus at this point, buying a cart of any first party N64 game I don't have could just give me over a year of NSO anyways.
Maybe when Switch 2 rolls around, the NSO app will get DLSS'd to 4K. I doubt it'll look as good as the Analouge will, but I think it'll be good enough.
If this had come a few years ago, I would have been all over it, but I think it's cool that it's here.
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- He/Him
Considering how much of a pain it is to get the hdmi mod installed in an actual N64, I'll happily pay a premium for this. Currently I have to use the struggle of s-video cables into a retro tink into an mclassic to my hd tv.
- Pronouns
- he / him
Don't expect DLSS specifically in emulated games, but yeah, no reason they can't do a lot better than the current x3 original resolution. And NSO sure already provides a more detailed image than Analogue 3D will, though better is pretty subjective.
Catsylvania
Koopa
Was just about to post this.
I love modding old hardware, but I know my limits. There’s no way I’d be able to do the HDMI mod myself as I’d end up breaking my Nintendo 64 and/or accidentally lighting myself on fire.
Largely depends on the price of Analogue 3D though. I’ll pay a premium, but even that has limits.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Analogue hardware continues to not be for me. To me, it’s like the video game equivalent to spending thousands of dollars on a hi-fi music-listening audio setup. You spend heaps on vinyl records, a record player, an amp, speakers, etc, and yeah, I bet it sounds incredible. Or you go the digital route and get one of those portable players with the huge ass DAC in it and you get some high-ohm headphones. Again, I bet it sounds incredible.
But I’d rather have my phone, some AirPods and Spotify. I guess the video game equivalent there is uhh…
N64 on NSO? A Retroid Pocket 3+?
I do think there’s a future where FPGA tech gets affordable enough for me to build a Mister or something, but I think it’s a ways off yet, and I feel like software emulation will be able to get close enough that even by then, I probably won’t see the need for me to invest in it.
But I’d rather have my phone, some AirPods and Spotify. I guess the video game equivalent there is uhh…
N64 on NSO? A Retroid Pocket 3+?
I do think there’s a future where FPGA tech gets affordable enough for me to build a Mister or something, but I think it’s a ways off yet, and I feel like software emulation will be able to get close enough that even by then, I probably won’t see the need for me to invest in it.
This is really cool, if I still had my N64 carts I'd be all over this. Alas time and younger siblings have taken their toll.
Might still pick it up depending on price and other options, but at this point I'm more interested in the controller.
I really enjoy my Analogue Pocket, I'm hoping they make more systems that appeal to me, but I have to imagine some are far, far in the future with FPGA development (or just not possible).
Might still pick it up depending on price and other options, but at this point I'm more interested in the controller.
I really enjoy my Analogue Pocket, I'm hoping they make more systems that appeal to me, but I have to imagine some are far, far in the future with FPGA development (or just not possible).
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As someone who has a Steam Deck set up to be my portable entertainment gaming machine for parties, there's still something nice about original hardware. You end up focusing on that consoles strengths as opposed to hitting the highlights from everything.
pretty cool as long as it looks nice and blurry and the controller is three pronged. otherwise it's a skip
terrornaught
Octorok
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- He
FFS I just got an RGB modded N64 and a fancy cable which cost me a £100 which outputs at 720p. I play The New Tetris everyday on my N64, I have no real choice but to play on real hardware as the game looks weird emulated and my 13 years of progress is locked to my cartridge so this is a must buy for me, just wish I’d not just pulled the trigger on a new N64.
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- He/Him
The real news here for me is that 8bitdo is going to be making an N64 controller.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Nintendo already made a bluetooth N64 controller! Why would anyone want anything else???
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah they did.. one that I can't get to work on my PC :-\
- Pronouns
- he/him
Does it not work out of the box? I’ve had shockingly good luck getting their previous bluetooth controllers (specifically NES. SNES and 6B Mega Drive that I imported from Japan) working on my Mac, but I could see the N64 controller being… weird.
Koren Lesthe
Turrican, Terranigma and ESO lover
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- He/Him
Carmageddon 64 in 4K !
We're so back !
We're so back !
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- He/Him
I spent a long time trying to get that darn thing to work, and out of all my frustration and googling, it seems like if you've already used the NSO N64 controller with a Switch, it won't work on a PC? That seems weird to me, but eventually I just gave up and bought a knockoff N64 controller on Amazon that's got a USB plug. That thing worked no problem. It's not official, but it's close enough for me.
- Pronouns
- he/him
… what? that is bonkers. Nintendo whyyyy
This is definitely not true. Nintendo stuff is finicky tho depending on your pc setup. I've done what you described.
Gingerbread Man
Paratroopa
I got it to work with my Mac without any issues, you just to have to re-pair it I think
I generally agree, but N64 is an exception IMHO, as we still don't have a really, really good emulator. The thing not supporting N64DD is a bummer though, like, if I buy something like that I want every possible game covered.
Other exceptions would be Saturn (same reason) and DS/3DS (form factor).
- Pronouns
- He/Him
there's rom conversions for every DD game anyway so it's not a big issue. hardly anyone owns the actual hardware
sir_crocodile
Piranha Plant
Loads of games already work on the mister core with only a handful failing to boot. I suspect by the time the analogue 3D comes out the mister core will have been long completed to the extent it can.
Pineapple Pizza
Bob-omb
Limited quantities released in a time-limited window and produced for a very limited time. Add in tax and international shipping fees and it's just exhausting thinking about buying anything from Analogue.
An 8bitdo N64 controller on the other hand... I'm listening.
An 8bitdo N64 controller on the other hand... I'm listening.
Koren Lesthe
Turrican, Terranigma and ESO lover
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- He/Him
Yeah, as usual I’m clearly never going to be able to get a console from Analogue, sadly.
Surely gonna get that bitdo controller tho.
- Pronouns
- he / him
Having to be an NSO subscriber and it only being in stock at random times are points against it.
Common Knowledge
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He, Him
It’d be awesome if they eventually do a DS/3DS portable console. Kind of seems like the next logical step after the Pocket on the portable side of things.
While it’d be cool to have, there’d be no need to have the 3D effect on the screen. Just having a modern dedicated DS/3DS machine now that Nintendo’s moved on from that era would be awesome.
While it’d be cool to have, there’d be no need to have the 3D effect on the screen. Just having a modern dedicated DS/3DS machine now that Nintendo’s moved on from that era would be awesome.
terrornaught
Octorok
- Pronouns
- He
I got both my pocket off EBay for £313 and my dock for £124, if you factor in what I would have paid in tax and shipping I probably slightly over spent on the pocket and probably got the dock a little cheaper. Also next day shipping instead of maybe waiting a year or so. Just wait until a wave has been sent out and eBay’s flooded with them, which temporarily makes the price plummet.
crepuscule
Bob-omb
From what I've read 3DS is way too complex for many years to come unless you want to spend thousands which no one will. There's probably difficulties in getting such a FPGA into a portable form factor as well even if you're fine spending thousands.
So definitely a long off eventually.
- Pronouns
- He/They
i'm surprised it's not simulating the PS1, as FPGA cores for that were made fairly quickly. SEGA Saturn support is also getting pretty far along.
personally far more interesting to me than the FPGA method.
i specifically remember their first system (which was also absurdly expensive) being actual leftover NES components thrown into an aluminum case with a HDMI video output mod.
personally far more interesting to me than the FPGA method.
Forks
Piranha Plant
I bet this is going to be so expensive. Original N64 hardware and games in general have gotten so expensive over the years. I was interested in picking up an Everdrive for awhile. But then I remembered my controllers need new sticks, I don't have any Rumble Paks and I never got the stupid Expansion Pak for the damn thing.
You really have to be an N64 enthusiast to deal with this stuff. It's just not for me personally lol
You really have to be an N64 enthusiast to deal with this stuff. It's just not for me personally lol
robertman2
Chain Chomp
- Pronouns
- He/him
I need a Sega Saturn FPGA clone system, I have a bunch of Saturn games (including Panzer Dragoon Saga!) but no working Saturni'm surprised it's not simulating the PS1, as FPGA cores for that were made fairly quickly. SEGA Saturn support is also getting pretty far along.
i specifically remember their first system (which was also absurdly expensive) being actual leftover NES components thrown into an aluminum case with a HDMI video output mod.
personally far more interesting to me than the FPGA method.
EggmaniMN
Shriekbat
- Pronouns
- He/Him
People often lament Analogue's business practices so it would be a good idea to inform people that we also have the upcoming MARS FPGA project, which, while it won't accept carts, it will have swappable controller port adapters that are all lagless and support far more consoles up to and including Dreamcast apparently. Some of the best people in the retro community are working on it.
This idea is cool but if you've already gotten a modded N64 you could always grab a Retrotink 4K when those go on sale and it'll be useful for pretty much anything Switch or older. And honestly there's a very high chance the end result will be just as good as whatever the Analogue solution ends up looking like, especially with how good the scanlines have gotten on Mike Chi's products.
This idea is cool but if you've already gotten a modded N64 you could always grab a Retrotink 4K when those go on sale and it'll be useful for pretty much anything Switch or older. And honestly there's a very high chance the end result will be just as good as whatever the Analogue solution ends up looking like, especially with how good the scanlines have gotten on Mike Chi's products.
Jahranimo
Starman
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- He/Him
Interesting. Thanks for the tips. I'll see if my finances for this luxury retro N64 console are in line whenever they decide to randomly announce the preorders and if not, then ebay it'll be!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I've had enough hours to process this, and in all honesty, i'm just... completely indifferent to it.
I've come to dislike Analogue. After the runaway success of the Analogue NT, they've based their console releases and marketing on FOMO, their products aren't readily available if you're not fast enough, and they're starting to take advantage of scalpers in the most pure Nvidia fashion. They're even dishonest in their marketing claims, because they sell their consoles as only being compatible with real carts while, on the other side, they release unofficial jailbreak methods and firmware that allow rom loading.
And then, there's the controller.
When i read the news, what made me happy was, precisely, the controller designed and developed by 8bitdo. If there's something i love about them is that they've mastered the art of modernizing retro controllers while keeping them, well... retro. From the SN30 pro to the recent Neo Geo wireless, they've made me look forward to anything they release for retro games or based on retro consoles. The M30 is a masterclass on modernized retro design.
And then you fiddle a little with the contrast and colors on that new N64 controller, and it's this:
Literally a 8bitdo Ultimate Controller with the N64 layout slapped on the right side. This, Fami, is 8bitdo missing the fucking point, and Analogue going along with it.
Look, there's no way i don't know what people thinks about the original trident design, people has been memeing about it for years, but here's the thing:
There are games designed around this thing:
Yes, meme about it however you want, the reality is that most FPS in its library have control schemes designed to use the left style handling, that most 3D games have some traversing related mechanic mapped on the Z button, wich on these bastardised controllers is usually awkwardly designed, that the console has 2D games that actually use the D-Pad, and that the D-Pad itself is surprisingly good - and chunky.
And what does 8bitdo, the company that designed the amazing M30, do? Just slap the button layout on their Ultimate Controller and call it a day.
And Analogue, a company that prouds itself in delivering the most authentic experience possible through their FPGA consoles, took it for their FPGA N64.
Ridiculous.
And well, after reviewing my feelings while i was writing this i realized i'm not indifferent to this reveal. I'm pissed. I'm fucking pissed. The N64 was the console that took me through my teenhood, and when it finally gets some love from not one, but two retro focused designers and manufacturers, one of them suddendly decides that my memories aren't worth shit, and you know what makes this worse? That even if they didn't want to go with the original design, there were still a couple of memorable controllers they could have taken as their baseline:
The N64 Makopad
And Hori's Mini Pad
Wich, by the way, was Retro-bit inspiration for their Tribute64, a flawed but ultimately great controller
But nope, 8bitdo had to take my memories, crumple them, throw them into the bin, drench them with alcohol and throw a match inside.
Rant over, i guess.
I've come to dislike Analogue. After the runaway success of the Analogue NT, they've based their console releases and marketing on FOMO, their products aren't readily available if you're not fast enough, and they're starting to take advantage of scalpers in the most pure Nvidia fashion. They're even dishonest in their marketing claims, because they sell their consoles as only being compatible with real carts while, on the other side, they release unofficial jailbreak methods and firmware that allow rom loading.
And then, there's the controller.
When i read the news, what made me happy was, precisely, the controller designed and developed by 8bitdo. If there's something i love about them is that they've mastered the art of modernizing retro controllers while keeping them, well... retro. From the SN30 pro to the recent Neo Geo wireless, they've made me look forward to anything they release for retro games or based on retro consoles. The M30 is a masterclass on modernized retro design.
And then you fiddle a little with the contrast and colors on that new N64 controller, and it's this:
Literally a 8bitdo Ultimate Controller with the N64 layout slapped on the right side. This, Fami, is 8bitdo missing the fucking point, and Analogue going along with it.
Look, there's no way i don't know what people thinks about the original trident design, people has been memeing about it for years, but here's the thing:
There are games designed around this thing:
Yes, meme about it however you want, the reality is that most FPS in its library have control schemes designed to use the left style handling, that most 3D games have some traversing related mechanic mapped on the Z button, wich on these bastardised controllers is usually awkwardly designed, that the console has 2D games that actually use the D-Pad, and that the D-Pad itself is surprisingly good - and chunky.
And what does 8bitdo, the company that designed the amazing M30, do? Just slap the button layout on their Ultimate Controller and call it a day.
And Analogue, a company that prouds itself in delivering the most authentic experience possible through their FPGA consoles, took it for their FPGA N64.
Ridiculous.
And well, after reviewing my feelings while i was writing this i realized i'm not indifferent to this reveal. I'm pissed. I'm fucking pissed. The N64 was the console that took me through my teenhood, and when it finally gets some love from not one, but two retro focused designers and manufacturers, one of them suddendly decides that my memories aren't worth shit, and you know what makes this worse? That even if they didn't want to go with the original design, there were still a couple of memorable controllers they could have taken as their baseline:
The N64 Makopad
And Hori's Mini Pad
Wich, by the way, was Retro-bit inspiration for their Tribute64, a flawed but ultimately great controller
But nope, 8bitdo had to take my memories, crumple them, throw them into the bin, drench them with alcohol and throw a match inside.
Rant over, i guess.
You can always buy a USB adapter. Apparently, the 8bitdo BT Adapter 2 is fully compatible, though you need to set up a profile with the ultimate software, and i didn't manage to get that to work. Admittedly, i only did some quick testing.
fiendcode
Like Like
Wake me in 5 years when they do the Analogue Pocket Dual (DS), with openFPGA and a new board that can also handle N64/SS/PS1 (and maybe DC/PSP?). I'll have my $499 ready.
If they're moving to a new N64 capable FPGA, I expect Analogue will probably also do Saturn and PS1 variants with it then too. I also still sort of expect Neo Geo AES (+CD?) and CDX (Genesis + Sega CD) variants on the old Cyclone V too following on the Duo.
If they're moving to a new N64 capable FPGA, I expect Analogue will probably also do Saturn and PS1 variants with it then too. I also still sort of expect Neo Geo AES (+CD?) and CDX (Genesis + Sega CD) variants on the old Cyclone V too following on the Duo.
Pineapple Pizza
Bob-omb
I'm not sure it does miss the point. I like N64 NSO with the official controller (though I don't find it the most comfortable thing to hold for extended perioda of time) but it's not very convenient to use for other software on Switch or elsewhere.
8bitdo's reconfiguration of their Ultimate Controller shell means we have a controller that can be utilised elsewhere providing additional value for money.
I'm willing to bet those C-buttons can be remapped--if not at a Switch OS level--through the Ultimate Controller software app. I'm thinking this controller could work well for older NSO systems right out of the box with gloriously chunky A and B buttons in the right orientation.
So I'm cool with 8bitdo going for a two-pronged design, even if the Z-button won't be, as you note, as satisfying to use.
I agree with your points about Analogue's business practices, though!
crepuscule
Bob-omb
I agree that including a more versatile controller increases value for money.
But this is not the aim of the Analogue 3D. It is specifically an expensive console whose purpose is solely to play N64 games as accurately as possible on high res modern displays. This isn't aimed at those (like me) who are looking for versatility and value for money. It's aimed at N64 enthusiasts who will pay a lot of money for the most accurate modern N64 experience and that should include the accuracy of the controller.
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- He/Him
Up until now, the Analogue consoles have been served with a 2.4 Ghz version of their respective controllers, and a single, console specific receiver. Those controllers weren't usable elsewhere as far as i know, the USB 2.4Ghz receivers were a recent addition that started with their PC Engine replica controller, and was consolidated with the 8bitdo Ultimate.
And sure, if 8bitdo's controller turns out to double as a Bluetooth controller like the Neo Geo and the Ultimate, the Ultimate design would make it more universal, but that was never the point neither of the Analogue consoles nor the 8bitdo retro controllers. For starters, their other controllers that were served with the Analogue consoles always lacked something, from the SN30 having exactly the same inputs as the SNES controller to the M30 pro being basically a 8 button fightpad. Their most recent release, the Neo Geo wireless, is a 6 button controller, so clearly full compatibility isn't something they really care about. Even this Ultimate N64 controller will lack inputs in Procon and Xinput mode.
Honestly, suddendly going for ergonomics over the authenticity of the experience feels like an insult to us N64 fans. 8bitdo isn't above redesigning controllers to accomodate ergonomics, extra inputs or just for the sake of it, all while keeping the base design and/or ergonomics. This is a bad move.
This. On top of it, it will act as a release for 8bitdo's N64 controller, wich will be their offering in a market that already has the Tribute64, the Brawler64 and the Hyperkin Admiral, all of them following the same concept of two pronged, modernized N64 controller.
And do you want to know something funny?
8bitdo's first ever hardware release was a N64 controller, as a collab with Retro-bit. This controller isn't even featured in their site as legacy.
Pineapple Pizza
Bob-omb
I don't disagree with you but I'm still interested in the controller as it is, primarily for those chunky A and B buttons that facilitate running and jumping in 2D platformers. And the C-buttons were the biggest annoyance using anything other than the official NSO pad when playing N64 on Switch. I am looking at this from a Switch perspective only. I get your point about the controller being/feeling very inauthentic when paired with this new FPGA console.
Interesting piece of history, there! I don't think they would get away with such a design now as they were presumably forced to change the look of their SF/SN30/Pro controllers as Nintendo probably put heat on them. They actually don't even have the original photo of the controllers on their website. My SF30 and SF30 Pro controllers are the original designs and they do look very close to Nintendo's own official controllers.
LuigiBlood
Mage Robot
I still hope for ROM conversions to eventually stop being needed in the slightest
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They play identically no?
also Analogue said in interviews that the 64DD is compatible hardware-wise, just the physical assembly doesn't fit and that someone will need to make an adapter cable
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's nothing stopping you from using your preferred BT 64 controller on the console. Analogue's consoles have been pretty adaptable with controllers up until nowI've had enough hours to process this, and in all honesty, i'm just... completely indifferent to it.
I've come to dislike Analogue. After the runaway success of the Analogue NT, they've based their console releases and marketing on FOMO, their products aren't readily available if you're not fast enough, and they're starting to take advantage of scalpers in the most pure Nvidia fashion. They're even dishonest in their marketing claims, because they sell their consoles as only being compatible with real carts while, on the other side, they release unofficial jailbreak methods and firmware that allow rom loading.
And then, there's the controller.
When i read the news, what made me happy was, precisely, the controller designed and developed by 8bitdo. If there's something i love about them is that they've mastered the art of modernizing retro controllers while keeping them, well... retro. From the SN30 pro to the recent Neo Geo wireless, they've made me look forward to anything they release for retro games or based on retro consoles. The M30 is a masterclass on modernized retro design.
And then you fiddle a little with the contrast and colors on that new N64 controller, and it's this:
Literally a 8bitdo Ultimate Controller with the N64 layout slapped on the right side. This, Fami, is 8bitdo missing the fucking point, and Analogue going along with it.
Look, there's no way i don't know what people thinks about the original trident design, people has been memeing about it for years, but here's the thing:
There are games designed around this thing:
Yes, meme about it however you want, the reality is that most FPS in its library have control schemes designed to use the left style handling, that most 3D games have some traversing related mechanic mapped on the Z button, wich on these bastardised controllers is usually awkwardly designed, that the console has 2D games that actually use the D-Pad, and that the D-Pad itself is surprisingly good - and chunky.
And what does 8bitdo, the company that designed the amazing M30, do? Just slap the button layout on their Ultimate Controller and call it a day.
And Analogue, a company that prouds itself in delivering the most authentic experience possible through their FPGA consoles, took it for their FPGA N64.
Ridiculous.
And well, after reviewing my feelings while i was writing this i realized i'm not indifferent to this reveal. I'm pissed. I'm fucking pissed. The N64 was the console that took me through my teenhood, and when it finally gets some love from not one, but two retro focused designers and manufacturers, one of them suddendly decides that my memories aren't worth shit, and you know what makes this worse? That even if they didn't want to go with the original design, there were still a couple of memorable controllers they could have taken as their baseline:
The N64 Makopad
And Hori's Mini Pad
Wich, by the way, was Retro-bit inspiration for their Tribute64, a flawed but ultimately great controller
But nope, 8bitdo had to take my memories, crumple them, throw them into the bin, drench them with alcohol and throw a match inside.
Rant over, i guess.
You can always buy a USB adapter. Apparently, the 8bitdo BT Adapter 2 is fully compatible, though you need to set up a profile with the ultimate software, and i didn't manage to get that to work. Admittedly, i only did some quick testing.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Mate, my whole complaint is about the controller itself. I'm not even going to try to get the console.
LuigiBlood
Mage Robot
You can't as easily do disk swapping which some games definitely make use of, and for me it's a matter of accuracy above all else. Flashcarts CAN use proper disk images and do things properly, SummerCart64 is the proof of that.
- Pronouns
- he / him
Tough sell to release something as an expensive premium product that lacks one of the defining features.
Evil Lucario
Star Successor
That new controller immediately failed the assignment. Unplayable for Sin and Punishment unless you're a southpaw player. Garbage.
Otherwise, hopefully this speeds up the MiSTer N64 core development as competition. I have no interest in buying this Analogue product because I already own an original N64 and a MiSTer though.
Otherwise, hopefully this speeds up the MiSTer N64 core development as competition. I have no interest in buying this Analogue product because I already own an original N64 and a MiSTer though.
soundchaser
DA CHEAT
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't know why you wouldn't just buy a 3DS at that point and mod as necessary.
