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News a new pal will be added to palworld

PixelKnight said:
To be fair, there are various games that are clearly heavily inspired in movement and/or visuals by HK. (like Never Grave, or Crowsworn, or Gleamlight).

Thing is, those games are deriviative, in that they are their own creative work, that’s at least original art even if it’s copying some of the notes of something else. And HK is a huge, beloved game in the indie scene- why wouldn’t there be shitloads of games taking inspiration from it, in the same way that Mario spawned imitators, tons of animal mascot platformers followed Sonic, and loads of extremely good indie games ride a nostalgia wave for genre-codifiers or highlights from the 8-bit/16-bit era. Blazing Chrome is essentially Contra III down to its jump arc, Infernax is essentially Castlevania 2, Battle Princess Madeline is essentially Ghouls and Ghosts, Wargroove is fantasy Advance Wars, The Takeover is Streets of Rage. Popular games get imitators, some more immediately deriviative, some a few years later, some decades later.

Original games deriviative of HK aren’t the same thing as outright asset theft of character skeletons and reskinning designed. In the same way that just being a monster collecting game inspired by Pokémon (or DQ Monsters), or a run-and-gun game inspired by Contra isn’t plagiarism, it’s being part of a genre.

It’s like, Fenix Rising takes obvious notes from BotW’s lush colour palette and sense of freedom. But what it’s not doing is just reskinning Zelda’s bestiary.

TLDR: not every game that looks like a recent very popular game is plagiarism, and even the difference between deriviative and expanding the genre is usually a matter of the quality of the execution rather than how close the visuals are. Gleamlight was a very poor game even if at first glance at a screenshot, you’d think ‘that’s HK with stained glass in the art direction’.
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I understand this, and in most cases would agree, but I doubt most indie devs who use other games as inspiration for their own works are on record saying their business goal is to simply copy popular games, nor are they deeply involved in AI and NFT stuff. So when this dev makes derivative works, it raises eyebrows due to their stated intent to plagiarize.
 
chocolate_supra said:
I understand this, and in most cases would agree, but I doubt most indie devs who use other games as inspiration for their own works are on record saying their business goal is to simply copy popular games, nor are they deeply involved in AI and NFT stuff. So when this dev makes derivative works, it raises eyebrows due to their stated intent to plagiarize.
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Ah, is that what the devs of NeverGrave are up to as well as PalWorld’s devs? That’s fair enough then.

My point was that some of PalWorld’s designs are plagiarism, but being a monster collector game isn’t, and nor is looking superficially like HK.
 
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PixelKnight said:
Ah, is that what the devs of NeverGrave are up to as well as PalWorld’s devs? That’s fair enough then.
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Never Grave's dev is PalWorld's dev. They're both made by Pocketpair. That's why people are looking at it as a Hollow Knight ripoff as opposed to "inspired by." It feels like a "they're at it again" sort of situation.

PixelKnight said:
My point was that some of PalWorld’s designs are plagiarism, but being a monster collector game isn’t, and nor is looking superficially like HK.
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Yeah and that's the part I was agreeing with, absolutely. Just wanted to be clear on why in the case of this developer people aren't giving them much benefit of the doubt.
 
chocolate_supra said:
I started reading Megatokyo at 15 around.. uh.. 24 years ago. 😅

It's an American webcomic made by an old-school manga fan about him and a friend getting stranded in Tokyo and having to figure their way around life there. His character's experiences end up mimicking dramatic dating sims and his friend's experiences end up mimicking wild scifi/fantasy action games, and neither of them really believe/understand the shit the other is going through because they're essentially living two different genres. It pays loving homage to a metric ton of anime/game tropes and the artist is an architect so the Tokyo backdrops and panel composition are legit as hell. Dunno how much impact it'd have to go through it nowadays but back in the day before anime was popular in the west it was a pretty big deal for us to have a really well-made comic that was basically a western fan's self-insert fantasy. And he's still putting out new chapters.
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is it like the show kappa mikey
 
Tall Valley Nerd said:
is it like the show kappa mikey
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I've never heard of that but from what I'm scanning of the series, not really? MT is more of an homage to multiple genres and sort of an outsider's view of Japanese culture, even bordering on J-drama at points, whereas as far as I can tell Kappa Mikey looks to be specifically a comedic parody of anime.

Point is, while they do share the premise of "an American in Japan but Japan is super tropey" the tones are wildly different. Just looking at the artstyles alone they're completely different beasts in terms of vibes.
 
chocolate_supra said:
Never Grave's dev is PalWorld's dev. They're both made by Pocketpair. That's why people are looking at it as a Hollow Knight ripoff as opposed to "inspired by." It feels like a "they're at it again" sort of situation.


Yeah and that's the part I was agreeing with, absolutely. Just wanted to be clear on why in the case of this developer people aren't giving them much benefit of the doubt.
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Ah I’m with you now. Apologies, I didn’t know Pocketpair developed Never Grave, I thought it was just another thing that looked deriviative like Gleamlight
 
linkwashere said:
You must be kidding me.

They copied even the feet colouring and pattern.
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You don't have to exaggerate like I've committed some sin.

If you've said they copied something like the eyes, face shape or some other distinct feature I'd agree with you. But I'm not seeing much resemblance besides the obvious hair/fur on the head.
 
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dolpic said:
It's hilarious how obviously it was being gassed up by people mad at gamefreak rather than genuinely enjoyed. Spite can't maintain a playerbase I fear
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It's a mostly single player RPG that's not too long that came out over 3 months ago that isn't particularly about the GAAS life and like many in the genre, was massively front loaded. You get that it's still the 13th most played RPG on steam at this exact moment according to steam DB right? For comparisons sake of another Rpg from this year, Like A Dragon infinite wealth has barely 10% of the active players. Persona 3 reload is similarly barely hanging around 3k players to palworlds 27k.

Palworld is a disgusting mess that shouldn't be allowed to get away with the horrendous plagiarism, but lying to ourselves that it isn't still a massive success does nobody any good either.
 
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Linkstrikesback said:
It's a mostly single player RPG that's not too long that came out over 3 months ago that isn't particularly about the GAAS life and like many in the genre, was massively front loaded. You get that it's still the 13th most played RPG on steam at this exact moment according to steam DB right? For comparisons sake of another Rpg from this year, Like A Dragon infinite wealth has barely 10% of the active players. Persona 3 reload is similarly barely hanging around 3k players to palworlds 27k.

Palworld is a disgusting mess that shouldn't be allowed to get away with the horrendous plagiarism, but lying to ourselves that it isn't still a massive success does nobody any good either.
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PalWorld is part of the survival game genre even if it has RPG elements, and it's meant to be played with buddies and not really a single player experience even though you can. That's where the heart of its enjoyment comes from imo.

A large part of its base UI and structure besides the catching element is just like any other survival multiplayer game such as Rust, DayZ, Valheim, Ark, etc. Of which PalWorld's current CCU numbers are showing as starting to settle around the CCU numbers of games in its genre which is around the 20-40k CCU mark (excluding Rust which leads the bunch).
 
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Tall Valley Nerd said:
i do not like the implications that i only created this thread to pull people attention out of gary mod takedown not every thing is some ignorant or evil scheme
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I... Wasn't implying any of that, like, at all, and didn't even occur to me it could be a thing. Geez.

It's just funny to see different takes on IP infringement going on at the same time.
 
chocolate_supra said:
Yeah but to be fair most people aren't gonna know that unless they read Megatokyo


"Play lots of games, try different games, and frequently flick through indie libraries to find hidden gems... and then blatantly rip them all off."
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Enpsty said:
Hidden gems like this?

GEfnRlfXAAAQWSU
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What Bucky wrote was a nice message and you 2 are being jerks about it. 2 mean comments.
 
I was wondering when the next Palworld thread would be made here. I didn't even know they had this one cooking, I'm still thinking about the fake Dark Mewtwo one lol.

Par for the course really, the game is here to stay and so far it appears they will continue development while it is in Early Access.
 
Jahranimo said:
I was wondering when the next Palworld thread would be made here. I didn't even know they had this one cooking, I'm still thinking about the fake Dark Mewtwo one lol.

Par for the course really, the game is here to stay and so far it appears they will continue development while it is in Early Access.
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Here to stay? Barely anyone talks about this game anymore lol

In January some people were actually saying this was gonna be as big as Minecraft and Fortnite
 
fantomena said:
What Bucky wrote was a nice message and you 2 are being jerks about it. 2 mean comments.
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It is a nicety, but I wouldn't say it's a "nice message." The message seems more like an explanation/justification for why CCU for Palworld has fallen. In other words, it's corporate platitudes.

It's highly difficult to take their statement about finding hidden indie gems at face value, given that they, as a company, have no scruples about ripping off other games.
 
meatbag said:
It's highly difficult to take their statement about finding hidden indie gems at face value, given that they, as a company, have no scruples about ripping off other games.
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They literally have a whole section on their site giving people permission to make "derivative works" of their games, like they're trying to push a narrative that plagiarism is some sort of moral high ground they're blazing the trail for.

And the independent artists showing that their own art had been skimmed for PalWorld's creatures, just... ugh. Rubs me incredibly wrong that that company is trying to act like they're up on a moral pedestal. If their success causes this to be a lot more common then artists and devs are gonna hurt.

even more than they're already hurting due to the explosion of corporate AI usage which the PalWorld devs have also voiced support of
 
I'm looking forward to the new content later this year. Despite the controversy it's a really fun game. It's nice they didn't just release the game, rake in the money, and run. It's gotten some real nice patches since release.
 
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Jersh said:
The whole "don't feel guilty" take is... odd. Was that a concern? Does he think everyone who played Pal World is sad about the fact that its player base shrank? I don't really get who's supposed to be reassured by that lol
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I hate to say it but it reads 100% like a message to the "fans" who used the controversy as a platform to sling shade at Game Freak, TPC, Nintendo
 
the_marmolade said:
Those are still really good numbers, don't know what you're trying to prove.
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The game was a flash in the pan, those are solid stable numbers, but nowhere near the hype of its release and it's not going to end up as big as their fanbase initially hyped it up to be. No shade, just the harsh reality. People were really online thinking this was gonna get Nintendo/TPC/GF to reevaluate Pokemon. Lol.
 
Tangerine_Cookie said:
I... Wasn't implying any of that, like, at all, and didn't even occur to me it could be a thing. Geez.

It's just funny to see different takes on IP infringement going on at the same time.
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I am sorry I think the nonsense on Twitter made me sensitive to things like this
and about the different takes I think company making tens of millions by copying others works is not the same thing as fans expressing their passion
 
chocolate_supra said:
They literally have a whole section on their site giving people permission to make "derivative works" of their games, like they're trying to push a narrative that plagiarism is some sort of moral high ground they're blazing the trail for.
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And even that’s misleading as it’s to cover the fact that some of their monster designs go way beyond deriviative and straight into plagiarism, if not asset theft. Nobody needs permission to be deriviative. If they did, pulp fiction wouldn’t exist, nor would game or film genres, or expy superheroes in comics from different publishers with very similar power sets/designs etc. It’s just convenient for them to blur the line between inspiration-deriviative work- plagiarism.
 
This is Chonkizard, the creature from my upcoming monster-catching game called Chonkemon:

3wrwNem.png


This is pratically the same joke I made in the older Palworld thread, but if they aren't gonna make an effort to come up with an original design, I have no reason to come up with a new joke
 
fantomena said:
Seems like you can't discuss Palworld on this site at all without being made fun off.
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People pointing out the hypocrisy of a piece of PR on social media isn’t ’being jerks’ when that studio is on record as ripping off other developer’s work. You don’t need to develop a parasocial relationship with companies and leap to defend them from reasonable criticism of which PocketPair is very much deserving. This wasn’t an individual’s heartfelt opinion. This was a carefully composed piece of corporate comms on behalf of a larger company, hence multiple use of ‘we’.
 
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Maronic03 said:
This is Chonkizard, the creature from my upcoming monster-catching game called Chonkemon:

3wrwNem.png


This is pratically the same joke I made in the older Palworld thread, but if they aren't gonna make an effort to come up with an original design, I have no reason to come up with a new joke
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Interesting!

Anyways, this is Stagizord, from my upcoming monster catching game called Buddymon:
3wrwNem.png
 
For continuing to dismiss posters in Pokémon related threads as childish despite prior feedback, you are being permanently threadbanned. - BassForever, BLG, MissingNo, TC, Zellia
fantomena said:
Seems like you can't discuss Palworld on this site at all without being made fun off.
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Rule of thumb for any game with a kindergarten-level online discourse: just play it if you like it and just talk about it with close friends
 
Zemya said:
Rule of thumb for any game with a kindergarten-level online discourse: just play it if you like it and just talk about it with close friends
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I think that it's pretty self-serving to dismiss criticism of PocketPair's blatantly ripping-off of artists as "kindergarten-level online discourse". It's fine if you don't personally care about art theft, but that doesn't mean anyone who does is doing so on the level of a child.
 
Zemya said:
Rule of thumb for any game with a kindergarten-level online discourse: just play it if you like it and just talk about it with close friends
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Rule of thumb when encountering reasonable discussion of a developers documented plagiarism and stated goals of doing so: if you’re unable to view media criticism around plagiarism, copyright, AI and art theft in any light other than ‘being mean’, perhaps it’s best to seek out more blinkered-level fan channels.
 
SunnyDays said:
I think that it's pretty self-serving to dismiss criticism of PocketPair's blatantly ripping-off of artists as "kindergarten-level online discourse". It's fine if you don't personally care about art theft, but that doesn't mean anyone who does is doing so on the level of a child.
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My issue is not what's being criticized, it's the way. Snarky comments aren't going to lead to any change and a lot of online discourse just doesn't go beyond that
 
Zemya said:
My issue is not what's being criticized, it's the way. Snarky comments aren't going to lead to any change and a lot of online discourse just doesn't go beyond that
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How would I properly criticize something in such a way that it won't be casually dismissed as words equivalent to that of a literal 5 year old? Is thoughtful, analytical critique with detailed examples and analysis not enough? Does insulting people for how they criticize something lead to the change you claim "snarky comments" fail to?
 
In the past, Chinese forums have been criticizing Tencent for game plagiarism for a long time, but Pal has turned these criticisms into a joke.
The most interesting thing there is that many people criticize Tencent's games for being overly similar but turn a blind eye to Pal.
 
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Zemya said:
My issue is not what's being criticized, it's the way. Snarky comments aren't going to lead to any change and a lot of online discourse just doesn't go beyond that
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Me and many people here have gone over our issues with this game in great detail. Hard not to be a little snarky about this bullshit game and its fans.
 
fantomena said:
No. People in general don't like being made fun off, it is possible to be nice to each other, but not here apparently.

I don't wanna live in a world where being nice is seen as a weakness.
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Neither do I. But a company stealing artists' works for profit is not nice.

And watching a section of the games community embrace the product said company made with art theft and celebrate it as a massive win and insist that its success is some sort of moral victory is really really disturbing for those of us who are professional artists.
 
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