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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Derachi said:
Anyone have a photoshop mock-up made of the new console using the dimensions we’ve got? I’d love to get an idea of the size compared to the existing Switch models
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As a matter of fact, yes! I made this a couple weeks ago:

14e7Fgx.png


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Serif said:
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Beat me to it, thank you for sharing!!!!
 
ILikeFeet said:
to be fair, the 3050 6GB looks to be a repurposed laptop chip. Ampere isn't in production anymore outside of GA107s it seems, and that's probably low volume, much like Orin. I don't think Nvidia has much money invested in Samsung for capacity, unlike TSMC, whom was leaked to have placed orders for 3nm since summer last year
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It's not a new die, but the fact that they're introducing new products based on GA107 now indicates they'll keep manufacturing it for a while yet. They're still making and selling GTX 1650s today, after all.

Anyway, my point was just that they're already making something on Samsung 8nm, even at low volume, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. So "Nvidia's still got a contract with Samsung for 8nm" wouldn't be news, and wouldn't tell us anything about whether T239's likely to be manufactured on 8nm or not.
 
Thraktor said:
It's not a new die, but the fact that they're introducing new products based on GA107 now indicates they'll keep manufacturing it for a while yet. They're still making and selling GTX 1650s today, after all.

Anyway, my point was just that they're already making something on Samsung 8nm, even at low volume, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. So "Nvidia's still got a contract with Samsung for 8nm" wouldn't be news, and wouldn't tell us anything about whether T239's likely to be manufactured on 8nm or not.
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yeh but thats low volume compared to what theyre doing with tsmc. something like the switch where they need to amass 10s of millions of chips for a launch would need an increase in volume production and that would be a bit of news if nvidia was doing that on an old node wouldnt it?
 
If we are expecting a March reveal, when do you all think pre-orders would become available (June/July if September, September if November release, etc)?
 
Serif said:
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Thinking about the joycon conversation again, it'd be a shame if these big fuck off joycon couldn't be used in tabletop considering the carpal tunnel i've been barely avoiding using tabletop on the OG switch...
 
monkeygotyou said:
its a showcase perhaps not a teaser trailer 🤔
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I doubt anyone outside of Nintendo knows. If they do, they're not talking.

Assuming Sep-Nov release and March being real, we'll probably get something akin to the video we got in Oct 2016. I bet they talk about it a bunch behind closed doors at GDC, and we get some level of more detail - maybe a RAM confirmation - in the wake of that.
 
Thraktor said:
It's not a new die, but the fact that they're introducing new products based on GA107 now indicates they'll keep manufacturing it for a while yet. They're still making and selling GTX 1650s today, after all.

Anyway, my point was just that they're already making something on Samsung 8nm, even at low volume, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. So "Nvidia's still got a contract with Samsung for 8nm" wouldn't be news, and wouldn't tell us anything about whether T239's likely to be manufactured on 8nm or not.
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Do you know why screen orders are perhaps easier to see/determine compared to chip/node order specifications? We got the screen type and sizes for the OLED and NS2 months before announce/manufacturing, but we seemingly don't know the SoC for T239 explicitly yet. How many people actually need to know the node of a chip for its development? Aren't these chips mass manufactured at big ol' factories like any other piece of tech? Would nobody really not notice millions of chips being manufactured for a custom vendor?

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why what should arguably be one of the most important aspects of a device (the chip inside), we can never seem to get concrete details (at least when it pertains to Nintendo) until after the system is out and someone not only tears it apart, but has to also then determine the node. Is it impossible to tell what node/density/etc. the thing is at a glance? Do they all just look like unidentified, squares without any identifying information at all?
 
Thraktor said:
The truth is that the manufacturing process just doesn't matter that much at this point. If we knew nothing about T239,
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Thraktor said:
so the choice of node could mean as much as a 2x difference in performance.
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Thraktor said:
Clock speeds might be a bit different, but honestly an 8nm T239 would probably only be clocked perhaps 20% lower than a 4nm one, because it simply wouldn't make sense to design the chip like that otherwise.
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Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly, but it sounds like there would indeed be quite a big difference between 20% and 200% performance :p
 
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Thraktor said:
Speculating that the chip's manufactured on 8nm isn't alarmist. They're just basing it on what Kopite7kimi tweeted back in the day, and that's... fine. They're welcome to have whatever opinion they want, and it's not harming anyone to speculate about something which may end up being wrong.

The truth is that the manufacturing process just doesn't matter that much at this point. If we knew nothing about T239, then the manufacturing process would be very important, because it would give us a range of expectations on how big the GPU is. Without any other knowledge, I might have estimated 4-6 SMs on 8nm, or 8-12 SMs on 4nm, so the choice of node could mean as much as a 2x difference in performance.

With knowledge that it's a 12 SM GPU, and 8 core CPU, then either they (as I expect) have gone with 4nm, or they've managed to make some kind of magical optimisations to the chip on 8nm to make it work. Or we get some unlikely in-between, like TSMC N6, or one of Samsung's 5nm/4nm processes. In any case we get the same GPU and CPU. Clock speeds might be a bit different, but honestly an 8nm T239 would probably only be clocked perhaps 20% lower than a 4nm one, because it simply wouldn't make sense to design the chip like that otherwise.
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Is definitely TSMC 4N, everything are saying that also GPU size and when taped out happend, for me personal people who still think is Samsung 8nm beacuse Nintendo are delusional
 
Langstonboy said:
Man, I’ve never seen people deny all but confirmed leaked specs for a console so hard before. Everyone agreed about what the Ps5 APU would be by mid-late 2019, but other communities of people still think that it is going to be only as good as a PS4 docked and sub-Xbox one in handheld with no 4K, HDR and only 8GB of ram with slow SD card storage for games. I guess this idea of Nintendo always having hopelessly underpowered hardware with no real aaa third party support has stuck since the Wii and 3DS. Despite Nintendo having a deal to get the full fat Cal of Duty experience day and date with PC, Xbox, and PlayStation, proving that the next hardware will be at least a steam deck (as that can run cod no problem in Windows 11).
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Yeah it always be funny to me lol.
 
mariodk18 said:
Do you know why screen orders are perhaps easier to see/determine compared to chip/node order specifications? We got the screen type and sizes for the OLED and NS2 months before announce/manufacturing, but we seemingly don't know the SoC for T239 explicitly yet. How many people actually need to know the node of a chip for its development? Aren't these chips mass manufactured at big ol' factories like any other piece of tech? Would nobody really not notice millions of chips being manufactured for a custom vendor?

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why what should arguably be one of the most important aspects of a device (the chip inside), we can never seem to get concrete details (at least when it pertains to Nintendo) until after the system is out and someone not only tears it apart, but has to also then determine the node. Is it impossible to tell what node/density/etc. the thing is at a glance? Do they all just look like unidentified, squares without any identifying information at all?
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Nobody other than a relatively limited number of staff in Nintendo, Nvidia and the company fabricating a chip need to know the manufacturing process. Even the people in Nintendo designing the motherboard don't necessarily need to know it, just what I/O pins it has and the power draw specifications.

By contrast, more people need to know about the screens. Nintendo typically multi-sources its screens, so they're going to talk about it to multiple different suppliers, and then the choice of screen is going to determine things like the housing and the electronics to interface with it. Developers also need to have a screen to test portable mode on, so obviously they're going to know if it's bigger or a different resolution or whatever.

I also suspect that the display industry is just more lax with NDAs than the foundry business. Even with the Switch OLED model, which only used panels from Samsung, we knew the precise size, type and resolution before it was announced.
 
kingman said:
Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly, but it sounds like there would indeed be quite a big difference between 20% and 200% performance :p
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Well, you left out the part where I explained it, but my point was that if we knew nothing, then the difference in performance we would expect between an 8nm chip and a 4nm chip could be 2x, but based on the fact that we know a lot of details about the chip, the difference in performance I'd expect between an 8nm chip and a 4nm chip could be as little as 20% or so.
 
Ojoloco said:


Necro speaks about reveal games as well
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Hm, an interesting tidbit beyond just the general release window:

[...] adicionando ainda que múltiplas companhias desenvolvedoras / editoras parceiras da Nintendo se preparam para anunciar seus projetos, e que diversas lojas do varejo estão se movimentando para preparar o início das pré-vendas do sistema.
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Google translation which I can vouch for the legitimacy of:

[...] further adding that multiple developer/publishing companies that partner with Nintendo are preparing to announce their projects, and that several retail stores are gearing up for the start of pre-sales of the system.
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So based off of this and assuming the info is legit, if I had to guess, February is the month where we finally get those juicy reports from the big boys.
 
Thraktor said:
Well, you left out the part where I explained it, but my point was that if we knew nothing, then the difference in performance we would expect between an 8nm chip and a 4nm chip could be 2x, but based on the fact that we know a lot of details about the chip, the difference in performance I'd expect between an 8nm chip and a 4nm chip could be as little as 20% or so.
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Oh. So I did read it wrong! My bad.
 
Dragoncaine said:
I don't see anything about specific reveal games; was the article edited?
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this part

adicionando ainda que múltiplas companhias desenvolvedoras / editoras parceiras da Nintendo se preparam para anunciar seus projetos, e que diversas lojas do varejo estão se movimentando para preparar o início das pré-vendas do sistema.
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It also adds that several of Nintendo's partner development companies/publishers are preparing to announce their projects, and that several retail stores are moving to prepare for the start of pre-orders for the system.
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While the earlier the presentation comes the better, if the reveal and preorders are in the second half of March I have bad luck.
I will be on a field trip in an area without stable internet. Might have internet access every few days to read up on what was shown, but I will not be able to watch a video or preorder a console in time...
I will have to instruct friends and family to get me one :D
 
Of course March is the month, March is my birthday month, Nintendo released the switch during my birthday month and will unveil the successor during my birthday month, perfectly logical
 
I guess this time Nintendo will let third parties to confirm that their stuff is coming to Switch 2 in the timing they wish.

Example: lets say the reveal trailer includes someone playing MH Wilds in Switch 2. They will let Capcom confirm it the same day instead of doing what Bethesda did of denying Skyrim Switch version until January 2017 presentation lol.
 
Ojoloco said:


Necro speaks about reveal games as well
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For anyone else looking for a quick and dirty translation:

Since last year, Natedrake is a better-known and more accurate insider regarding Nintendo's plans information, had commented on March 2024 being a month of news about Nintendo's upcoming hardware.

In a latest episode of his podcast with his predictions to Nintendo in 2024 and then participating in Game & Talk Podcast , Nate said he waits for the revelation of Nintendo Switch successor at some point during March.

In order to solidify this statement, I contacted our sources that corroborated Natedrake's reporting about March, adding that multiple Nintendo's multiple developer / publishers are preparing to announce their projects, and several retail stores are moving to prepare the start of pre-sales of the system.

So far, Nintendo has not officially commented on the existence of the new hardware and its revelation or release window.

Stay tuned for more news!
 
LoneRanger said:
I guess this time Nintendo will let third parties to confirm that their stuff is coming to Switch 2 in the timing they wish.

Example: lets say the reveal trailer includes someone playing MH Wilds in Switch 2. They will let Capcom confirm it the same day instead of doing what Bethesda did of denying Skyrim Switch version until January 2017 presentation lol.
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Honestly, I could see them doing the Skyrim thing again. The reason they didn't allow third parties to announce games when the initial trailer went up was that they wanted to keep the messaging as simple and straight-forward as possible. Instead of people curious about it wading through a bunch of news stories about "Developer X announces game Y for Switch", they just wanted a single story of "Nintendo announces Switch, here's what it is". It ended up with the weird situation where Skyrim was shown in the video but not officially announced, which some people latched onto for some bizarre reason, but it did its job of keeping the initial reveal very focussed and effective.
 
Brofield said:
For anyone else looking for a quick and dirty translation:

Since last year, Natedrake is a better-known and more accurate insider regarding Nintendo's plans information, had commented on March 2024 being a month of news about Nintendo's upcoming hardware.

In a latest episode of his podcast with his predictions to Nintendo in 2024 and then participating in Game & Talk Podcast , Nate said he waits for the revelation of Nintendo Switch successor at some point during March.

In order to solidify this statement, I contacted our sources that corroborated Natedrake's reporting about March, adding that multiple Nintendo's multiple developer / publishers are preparing to announce their projects, and several retail stores are moving to prepare the start of pre-sales of the system.

So far, Nintendo has not officially commented on the existence of the new hardware and its revelation or release window.

Stay tuned for more news!
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Not really heavy news but at least it's a corroboration. Always important to remember that just because one credible person said it, doesn't mean that nothing is added to the world by speaking out about your own sources and confirming it for yourself.
 
Homura said:
Would Nintendo really open pre orders six months before release?
IIRC PS5 was two months prior.
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It’s probably not going to be a September or November release, that’s 7-9 months of lead up and I really don’t expect it to be anywhere near that long from reveal to release.
I’m expecting a May/June release but wouldn’t be surprised if it also ended up being July.
 
Brofield said:
For anyone else looking for a quick and dirty translation:

Since last year, Natedrake is a better-known and more accurate insider regarding Nintendo's plans information, had commented on March 2024 being a month of news about Nintendo's upcoming hardware.

In a latest episode of his podcast with his predictions to Nintendo in 2024 and then participating in Game & Talk Podcast , Nate said he waits for the revelation of Nintendo Switch successor at some point during March.

In order to solidify this statement, I contacted our sources that corroborated Natedrake's reporting about March, adding that multiple Nintendo's multiple developer / publishers are preparing to announce their projects, and several retail stores are moving to prepare the start of pre-sales of the system.

So far, Nintendo has not officially commented on the existence of the new hardware and its revelation or release window.

Stay tuned for more news!
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This could mean that as soon as Nintendo announces this thing that other Publisher can share if they have games ready for this machine.

Still the initial reveal could "just" be a trailer or smaller hardware presentation maybe kinda in the Style of Switch Lite, that teases some games, while the real Games Showcase with dates etc is in June. Would be quite exciting. If you think about it, the actual hardware part wasn‘t much longer in that infamous January Switch presentation.

I really hope for a reveal Trailer with real people playing this console. I need Rooftop Karen Part 2. This has to happen!
 
omniryu said:
Yeah, this amazing to hear. Usually people would think a console CPU is 2 to 3 time more powerful than a handheld.

And I think when it comes to gameplay, we pretty much peaked right? Maybe some creative stuff I haven't seen myself. It just seems that the bulk of the work is for NPC AI or helping the GPU and other resources
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Could this be enough for a downgraded gta vi or dragons doma 2 port?
 
7hatDeadCat said:
yeh but thats low volume compared to what theyre doing with tsmc. something like the switch where they need to amass 10s of millions of chips for a launch would need an increase in volume production and that would be a bit of news if nvidia was doing that on an old node wouldnt it?
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Maybe. Depending on how things work out they could have been winding up T239 manufacturing at the same time they were winding down production of some RTX 30 series products, so it may not have been a massive difference. I don't think it would be notable enough to make the news anyway.
 
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Thraktor said:
No worries.
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🤔 you know judging the rumors of the Switch getting a lot of PS5 games. I am confident that we will have more titles than Switch 1. Not to mention Xbox sales are struggling. I see more... it just. The Sony third party exclusive. To be honest, it seems like Square wants to put FF7R on Nintendo new hardware but the probably aren't allowed to do it.

Heck they are putting trials of mana on Xbox and FF14. They seems desperate to expand on different platforms.
 
Green_Meeple said:
I'd accept even a paintbrush drawing, I have so much difficulty imagining size of stuff
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I took a little artistic liberty but here you go
joycon_-_page_1.png


edit: if you scale the image on your monitor until the size matches one of those controllers then you can see the estimated actual size(-ish) :LOL:
 
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Samuspet said:
I'm going for March 4th almost 7 years to the day of the Switch launch. I don't expect to see it or any games more a press release that they plan to release new hardware later in 2024 and to look forward to them sharing more in June where we will see the console, the games, the name and concrete release date.
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I dont think it would be a good move to blue ball the audience like that. At that point they might as well just wait until June - we all know its coming, this would leave a worse first impressions than what they did with the Switch reveal trailer.

They are gonna showcase the system, key features as well as some games. Keeping all that until June, for a potential 3 months period to its launch would be a bit too much. Floodgates are gonna open anyway post GDC and the final devkits getting into more hands. Better for Nintendo to control the reveal instead of relying on leaks.

Showing off BC functionality might actually help the upcoming OG Switch games that are gonna release in the next couple months.
 
ILikeFeet said:
impossible to know because we can't tell CPU load just from looking at things
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I know DF was saying that it was more of ray tracing but idk. I think cutting back on a few things it can probably run. That's if they take full advantage of all the cpu saving measure thay the soc has.

Like most of the brunt work looks like hair physics and mass NPC. Is that really core to the gameplay?
 
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