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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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9-Volt said:
No way those games are 2026-2027 games, Sega wouldn't reveal them so early. They prefer short times between announcement and release. I already was suspicious of this person now I know they're just bullshitting.
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Wasn't the announcement to show people that Sega was still in the game and that they cared about their legacy titles? Jet Set Radio's development started about two years ago, I'm pretty sure, so a 2026 release is only two years away.

Also, 2400 pages!!! With more leaks come out I think we will get to 2500 or maybe even 2600 pages by the time the Switch 2 gets announced.
 
BingBong43 said:
I really do think most everyone here has got the wrong idea about redesigned joy-cons. Nintendo has iterated and improved upon on the joy-cons several times already. They are also still releasing new colorways of them and making special announcements for them when that happens.

I firmly believe the next system will either have the exact same joy-cons as Switch, the new device will be an integrated handheld that does away with the joy-con concept yet still pairs with existing joy-cons ala Wii U working with Wiimotes, or the “new joy-cons” are so visually distinct from the old ones that they have an entirely new name, detachment style, and play/control capabilities.


There would be way too much potential for customer confusion with two sets of joy-cons on the market at one time. And unless Nintendo has a Switch 2 Lite and OLED up their sleeve to launch alongside the Switch 2, it seems much more reasonable to assume they’d offer the OG Switch as the entry-level device for at least a few more years than expect them to sell both the entire lineup of current joy-cons and accessories alongside new joy-cons and new accessories that are only compatible with Switch 2.

3DS sold until late 2020 so it’s fair to assume Switch will be on shelves until 2026/7 and it will only become cheaper and more accessible in that time.

I also really think Nintendo’s going to want to position the new device as integrating into the ecosystem of peripherals that already exist for Switch. It seems to me the best way to simultaneously offer that and a new and exciting control scheme is to do away with older joy-cons attaching to the new device but make them able to pair and sync with the new device wirelessly.

Making people once again go through the slog of buying new plastic wheels and new Ring Fit bands for a new generation of Switch just sounds like a recipe for customer frustration/confusion. It does not at all sound like the “smooth transition” we were promised. (Yes, I know this was largely referring to Nintendo accounts being carried over but it’s been repeated officially by Nintendo a few times such that I expect the philosophy to extend to more than just online accounts.)

Edit: Deleted an extra "either"

I’m honestly hoping for a fully integrated handheld that has bigger, more traditionally-sized buttons. I almost never play my Switch in handheld because the joy-con buttons feel so small and delicate that I can’t get comfortable….and I’ve got smaller than average hands. I also loathe the absence of a d-pad on an official Nintendo device. It’s just plain wrong.

Even still, OG joy-cons are likely here to stick around for a good while longer which has me firmly believing the new device will bring something different. Frankly, I want my OG Switch to feel like an accessory to the next generation platform and have some cool connectivity features that encourage the use of all the many joy-cons I’ve already bought.
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Concernt said:
Yeah, but that implies the existence of Joy-Con rail, at the very least its connector. You can't say "controllers are backwards compatible, but you'll need to keep your old console around to charge them". If they're compatible they charge. This isn't Switch Lite where people give up features for a lower price and smaller size, this is the next generation.

If it supports Joy-Con, it has a Joy-Con rail connector, if it has Joy-Con rail connector, it's either in a weird location like the dock, or the console has rails.

I wouldn't say Joy-Con rail connectors on the dock are an impossibility given the existence of GCN compatible Wii, but it would be nuts even for Nintendo.
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All Nintendo needs to do is provide compatibility with all games out of the box and the existence of Switch Lite proves that a unified form factor can still make that a reality.

Wii U didn't come with any Wiimotes/Nunchuks yet Wiimotes and Nunchuks were necessary for practically every game.

Joy-cons will still be available for purchase because OG Switches will still be available for purchase. Nintendo already sells a charging grip for the joy-cons so based on their own history they don't need to offer a product with joy-con rails out of the box. They'll be perfectly happy selling you more accessories.

You really think 140 million+ people want to spend multiple hundreds of dollars on new controllers that pretty much look similar to the old ones just because they're lacking some extra gyro function or are slightly bigger? It'll be the confusion over Wii Remote + all over again but worse.

"Joy-cons" either need to be something entirely new on the new device or just completely eliminated on the device itself with BC compatibility through bluetooth. There are far far too many benefits to getting rid of them and all of the benefits of keeping them are already contained in offering the Switch for sale as the entry-level device.
 
Meelow said:
Wasn't the announcement to show people that Sega was still in the game and that they cared about their legacy titles? Jet Set Radio's development started about two years ago, I'm pretty sure, so a 2026 release is only two years away.

Also, 2400 pages!!! With more leaks come out I think we will get to 2500 or maybe even 2600 pages by the time the Switch 2 gets announced.
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JSR was shown at that same showcase thing-y mcdoodad that Persona 3 Reload was at. Considering that leak was accurate, I imagine JSR might be either next or the following year yeah.

Also happy 2400 pages, that's almost 120,000 messages and exactly 859 days since we started this godforsaken thread. And thus we remain until the day we die or Nintendo reveals Donkey Konga 2. I'm praying for the former.
 
Giancarlo said:
i would not take Furukawa statement by heart, Nintendo has precedent of misleading us, and two weeks later, here our next-gen console,(point to DS Lite)
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Right. A translation from this page:

jp.reuters.com

任天堂、今期は一転営業増益に　スイッチ堅調で販売予想引き上げ

任天堂は６日、２０２４年３月期連結営業利益予想を前期比１．１％増の５１００億円に上方修正した。従来予想は同０．９％減の５０００億円だった。３月に発売８年目となる家庭用ゲーム機「ニンテンドースイッチ」の販売が堅調で、円安も業績を押し上げる。
jp.reuters.com jp.reuters.com

President Furukawa denies a series of reports regarding the successor to the Switch. He only stated that he was "constantly researching and developing new hardware and software."
 
SoldierDelta said:
JSR was shown at that same showcase thing-y mcdoodad that Persona 3 Reload was at. Considering that leak was accurate, I imagine JSR might be either next or the following year yeah.

Also happy 2400 pages, that's almost 120,000 messages and exactly 859 days since we started this godforsaken thread. And thus we remain until the day we die or Nintendo reveals Donkey Konga 2. I'm praying for the former.
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Whoa, my Duolingo streak is 859 days long today too.

I've been getting mediocre in German and at speculating future hardware at the same rate
 
SoldierDelta said:
JSR was shown at that same showcase thing-y mcdoodad that Persona 3 Reload was at. Considering that leak was accurate, I imagine JSR might be either next or the following year yeah.

Also happy 2400 pages, that's almost 120,000 messages and exactly 859 days since we started this godforsaken thread. And thus we remain until the day we die or Nintendo reveals Donkey Konga 2. I'm praying for the former.
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Oh 2400 - the speed of my first modem. Can't wait for 2600 - the hertz of a Captain Crunch whistle. :D
 
How we feeling being potentially less than a month away from reveal?
 
0
Shareholder Chad said:
I think you missed the word “seemingly” and once again I have people rushing and tripping to tell me how wrong I am about ps/xbox being “competition”. I’ll try to simplify my thought on this because it truely is exhausting trying to explain complicated economics that involve a level of subjectivity.

Have you ever gone to a store with $50 and thought “hey I can get this game for $50 OR I can get a movie and some beer with this $50 and hang out with some buddies on the couch”.

This is what I’m referring to with Nintendo. Late 2024, I think a large amount of potential buyers will face some sort of dilemma. “Should I buy switch 2 or I can get <insert thing here>”. I think macro economics will come into play as people choose to pay off credit card bills, increasing rent, etc. and buy smaller entertainment things rather than a new video game console.

I said “seemingly” in my other post because again, this has a layer of subjectivity and is an opinion. I do not have a crystal ball but i have seen this movie before.

Just repeating. Opinion piece.
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Pro consoles never sell that much, they are mostly bought by a few hardcore console brand loyalists. The average consumer will easily pick out Switch 2 for a christmas present over a PS5 pro system.
 
Hermii said:
No it hasn't. Its just as much a guess as it was yesterday.

And it's a really silly one at that, I don't care if Nate or John Linneman said it. That's not how custom hardware works. You design a chip to accommodate for the device you are making, not the other way around.
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Exactly. The only reason Johns logic on this is holding any weight is because he isn't fielding any follow questions that would challenge this theory. Don't get me wrong, I respect the guys at DF and really like John's content, but if he were posting here and had to go through a back and forth with some of the informed members here, I'm pretty sure he would conclude that theory is very flawed.
 
ILikeFeet said:
on a more positive DF note, here's Death Stranding running on Iphone
  • no upscaling
  • ~400p, can go higher or lower
  • capped at 30fps, but can go much lower in a myriad of scenarios
  • visually on par with PS4, but lods and foliage are pared back
  • laptop versions are very good with upscaling
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That's embarrassing. I haven't watched the video, but is metal fx running? Would not surprise me if an over clocked Mariko can run better (assuming it's not CPU bottlenecked), minus textures
Shoulder said:
Maybe at this point, we should start a big bingo card full of all the leaks/rumors/insider info, smack it all into a cohesive structure of our choosing, and see who ends up with a full Bingo card.

Winners get a brand new Switch 2 game of their choosing.


And we have a ton of options to choose from including, but not limited to:

Joy Cons
No joy cons
1080p screen
8” screen
7.91” screen
T239 drake
16GB Ram
12GB Ram
8GB Ram
Camera
No camera
Clamshell
No clamshell
120hz support
Etc
Etc
Etc

So many possibilities for a Fami bingo card.
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That would be fun.
GPKs3 said:
Joy-cons on Switch 2 just need to be a little beefier, weightier, and have better ergonomics. That's all i want.
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and better sticks so no drifting.
Individualised said:
Joy-Cons are a pretty fundamental part of the Switch and not having them would interrupt the hybrid experience and make the system harder to use especially for casual players. Not having them also takes away one of the big reasons for using tabletop mode (quick and easy portable multiplayer). Pretty interesting take that Switch 2 won't have them.
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Not to play devil's advocate, as I hope we get improved detached joycons, but they could be like, "well if you want to play tabletop with friends, you can buy our detachable ones for Switch!"


if the controls are integrated like switch lite, I wonder if they are trying to do so mostly to save money to make it affordable for consumers, or to try and get consumers to buy more separate controllers.

But anyhow, integrated controls will ruin the kit if the box multiplayer experience. It doesn't make a ton of sense to me to not make them detachable.. I expect new improved joycons, and I wouldn't be surprised if the current switch ones can't be physically attached to them, but can be connected via Bluetooth.
 
I don't think Switch joycons will be compatible with the Switch 2, there will be new type of joycons on Switch 2, so i expect Switch joycons to be useless on Drake.
 
Danny said:
I don't think Switch joycons will be compatible with the Switch 2, there will be new type of joycons on Switch 2, so i expect Switch joycons to be useless on Drake.
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I rather hope they have the same set of inputs and the same rails, but unfortunately the new ones are slightly taller so they look funny on a old switch, and the old ones look funny on a new switch.

Unfortunately, I see it as reasonably likely that they will not be cross compatible.
 
0
LiC said:
I also think the segment was way off base where it was suggested that even though the console will have BC and enhancement patches will be possible, Nintendo would still choose to require rebuying separate Switch 2 versions of their old games.

Which would Nintendo rather have: Enhancement patches which are cheap to develop and still drive evergreen sales from people who didn't already own the games, while also incentivizing those who owned the games previously to upgrade their console? Or separately purchased Switch 2 rereleases that cost more to develop but still have to be priced attractively, possibly lower than the price of the Switch 1 title as an evergreen, while turning off the previous owners?

Sometimes I find that the banal observation of "companies just want to make money" mutates into "companies don't care how consumers will react to their decisions," like that's not a factor in how much money they make! If nobody wants your paid repurchased games, you don't make money. And free patches are still a money maker, serving the same purpose as all the free content updates that many Nintendo titles receive -- which aren't done out of the goodness of anyone's heart, they're done to make money -- and yet you don't hear anyone saying that Nintendo is going to make the Dream Friends in Kirby Star Allies paid DLC next time around.

The one comparison people usually fall back on is Nintendo reselling Wii U games. For starters, there was no backwards compatibility, so a rerelease was the only option to play those games, and there was no lower-cost patch-type development option available to Nintendo. But more importantly, no one bought a Wii U. The primary audience for those releases was not people who owned them previously! Tropical Freeze sold 4.6M compared to 2M on Wii U, and NSMBUDX sold a whopping 17.2M compared to 5.9M! We can be very certain that a standalone Switch 2 SKU of Bayonetta 3 (the example used in the podcast) will not see that kind of boost from being rereleased on a console starting out 140M units behind the one where it released originally.
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Lord Zeno I hope so, cause I have my copy unopened for this very reason.
Dakhil said:
That's correct. But two RAM modules can run on dual-channel whereas one RAM module can only run on single-channel.
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Does the Switch only have one RAM module and RAM chip? I thought they have 2x 2GB 32 bit buswidth modules to make 64..
 
ShadowFox08 said:
if the controls are integrated like switch lite, I wonder if they are trying to do so mostly to save money to make it affordable for consumers, or to try and get consumers to buy more separate controllers.
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This will be customer experience nightmare scenario. Drifting issue in non-detachable controller?

Too bad, you have to send the whole unit in for repair.

Yes, that'd be the case for Switch Lite, but doing that to the base Switch 2 SKU line? I cannot see Nintendo going for that.
 
Shareholder Chad said:
It helps out youtube creators when you watch their content in full. As well as if you let the ads go if you dont have premium. Just a consideration. Not preaching or telling you what to do.
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I did, unfortunately English is not my native language and the subtitles are not always accurate.
 
Subrosian Link said:
I am the only one who has immediately thought that not having MVG, nor even acknowledging his absence, was basically a confirmation of him finally having signed an NDA with regards to Redacted?
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Nate did end the podcast by saying MVG would be back next episode, if that counts as "acknowledging his absence."
 
darthdiablo said:
This will be customer experience nightmare scenario. Drifting issue in non-detachable controller?

Too bad, you have to send the whole unit in for repair.

Yes, that'd be the case for Switch Lite, but doing that to the base Switch 2 SKU line? I cannot see Nintendo going for that.
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I agree that it's unlikely they get rid of removable joycons. However, I don't think they will continue to use sticks that allow drift.
 
nitroplum said:
I agree that it's unlikely they get rid of removable joycons. However, I don't think they will continue to use sticks that allow drift.
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Same, I hope they have the drifting issue adequately addressed this round (no touching parts which will wear out over time). I was just using drifting as a well known example orig Switch went through but the same nightmare scenario will occur if there happens to be a non-rare issue with Switch 2 non-detachable joycons in general. Or just about any support issue requiring user to send in the whole unit.
 
darthdiablo said:
Same, I hope they have the drifting issue adequately addressed this round (no touching parts which will wear out over time). I was just using drifting as a well known example orig Switch went through but the same nightmare scenario will occur if there happens to be a non-rare issue with Switch 2 non-detachable joycons in general. Or just about any support issue requiring user to send in the whole unit.
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Another advantage that detachable controllers have is that if you're not happy with what Nintendo offered (ergonomics, buttons, sticks, etc), you can buy a 3rd party (and the Switch has many options for example)
 
darthdiablo said:
This will be customer experience nightmare scenario. Drifting issue in non-detachable controller?

Too bad, you have to send the whole unit in for repair.

Yes, that'd be the case for Switch Lite, but doing that to the base Switch 2 SKU line? I cannot see Nintendo going for that.
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i had drift on my wii u gamepad. it was a nightmare.
 
This honestly has been a disappointing week in regards to any new info to chew on, im betting the factory reports will be a repeat of what we got last month, i hope Nate is right in us hearing about the Switch 2 by GDC
 
Its the calm before the storm. I suspect we got about 35 days to go. If it makes anyone feel better, I've talked to quite a few buddies in Wall street that kind of have the same vibe and confusion we do.
 
ILikeFeet said:
it kinda does. 1x 12GB chip for games and 1x 2GB chip for the OS

Series does this, but this is better balanced like the Series X
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Late to the discussion, but...

The RAM speed is based on the bus width like @bmfrosty said. A 128 bit module has the same bandwidth as 2x 64bit in dual-channel. A 64 bit module, no matter how many GB, will have half of the bandwidth of 2x 64 bit in dual channel (which I believe is what your article is comparing, @Dakhil).

Let's say you have 4GB worth of data in a 2x6GB LPDDR5 system. If you put all of it in one module, then it will take 0.05s (at ~50GB/s) to transfer that data. But if you put 2GB into each module, you can transfer both in 0.025s (~50GB/s from module 1 + 50GB/s from module 2 working in parallel).This is dual-channel, using parallelism to use all 128-bit simulatenously.

So, if they wanted 14GB, they could have 8GB + 6GB and 12GB of those would work in dual-channel, while there would be 2GB which would work at just ~50GB/s.

Maybe there are benefits in multiple modules, I'm not 100% sure, but the most important thing for performance is the entire bus working simultaneously.
 
I find it incredibly odd that both John and Nate came to the conclusion that they’ll remove the Joycons. It makes me wonder if it’s informed speculation, because it’s genuinely the least intuitive outcome I’d have thought possible, yet they both raised it.

I would have thought, especially with the 8” screen, that tabletop mode would be more appealing than ever. It’s still a suitable travel size and being able to have an all-in-one multiplayer experience is so good in a pinch.

It seems like the argument against them keeping the concept was:
  1. The fragility of the Joycons, and
  2. The admittedly uninformed belief that they weren’t used by many people
For 2, I can agree that the majority of time later in the Switch’s life I used the Pro Controller after docking, but that’s totally anecdotal - just as it was for John. My nephew and niece don’t own a Pro Controller, and regularly use Joycons. If they include a Pro Controller in the package that solves the single player situation, but not the multiplayer one. And I’d have assumed this would be more expensive, basically doubling the controller parts shipped in the base product.

As for 1, they’d have had the last 7+ years to refine how Joycons are built and how they function. It’s bizarre to humor the flaws of the current controllers as being relevant to the new system.

If it happens, it probably won’t impact me personally. The new device would feel sturdier and more compact. But it’s definitely something I’d have otherwise never seen coming.
 
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karmitt said:
I find it incredibly odd that both John and Nate came to the conclusion that they’ll remove the Joycons. It makes me wonder if it’s informed speculation, because it’s genuinely the least intuitive outcome I’d have thought possible, yet they both raised it.

I would have thought, especially with the 8” screen, that tabletop mode would be more appealing than ever. It’s still a suitable travel size and being able to have an all-in-one multiplayer experience is so good in a pinch.

It seems like the argument against them keeping the concept was:
  1. The fragility of the Joycons, and
  2. The admittedly uninformed belief that they weren’t used by many people
For 2, I can agree that the majority of time later in the Switch’s life I used the Pro Controller after docking, but that’s totally anecdotal - just as it was for John. My nephew and niece don’t own a Pro Controller, and regularly use Joycons. If they include a Pro Controller in the package that solves the single player situation, but not the multiplayer one. And I’d have assumed this would be more expensive, basically doubling the controller parts shipped in the base product.

As for 1, they’d have had the last 7+ years to refine how Joycons are built and how they function. It’s bizarre to humor the flaws of the current controllers as being relevant to the new system.

If it happens, it probably won’t impact me personally. The new device would probably be a more sturdy product. But it’s definitely something I’d have otherwise never seen coming.
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Made me wonder if it was informed also.

It could be the dev kit just comes with a pro controller or something and it’s inferred from that.
 
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karmitt said:
I find it incredibly odd that both John and Nate came to the conclusion that they’ll remove the Joycons. It makes me wonder if it’s informed speculation, because it’s genuinely the least intuitive outcome I’d have thought possible, yet they both raised it.

I would have thought, especially with the 8” screen, that tabletop mode would be more appealing than ever. It’s still a suitable travel size and being able to have an all-in-one multiplayer experience is so good in a pinch.

It seems like the argument against them keeping the concept was:
  1. The fragility of the Joycons, and
  2. The admittedly uninformed belief that they weren’t used by many people
For 2, I can agree that the majority of time later in the Switch’s life I used the Pro Controller after docking, but that’s totally anecdotal - just as it was for John. My nephew and niece don’t own a Pro Controller, and regularly use Joycons. If they include a Pro Controller in the package that solves the single player situation, but not the multiplayer one. And I’d have assumed this would be more expensive, basically doubling the controller parts shipped in the base product.

As for 1, they’d have had the last 7+ years to refine how Joycons are built and how they function. It’s bizarre to humor the flaws of the current controllers as being relevant to the new system.

If it happens, it probably won’t impact me personally. The new device would feel sturdier and more compact. But it’s definitely something I’d have otherwise never seen coming.
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Seems like they probably got further confirmation that the SoC is going to be huge (8N) and from that came to the conclusion that the only way for nintendo to fit the SoC and battery they would need to ditch joycons.

Really hoping nintendo isn't dumb enough to go with 8N, but it sounds like that's a possibility again.
 
TomNookYankees said:
Seems like they probably got further confirmation that the SoC is going to be huge (8N) and from that came to the conclusion that the only way for nintendo to fit the SoC and battery they would need to ditch joycons.

Really hoping nintendo isn't dumb enough to go with 8N, but it sounds like that's a possibility again.
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But your comment doesn't make sense either.

Are you saying the body won't accept detachable controllers? So it's no longer a handheld?

I'm sure I'm misunderstanding somewhere here, can you expand?
 
TomNookYankees said:
Seems like they probably got further confirmation that the SoC is going to be huge (8N) and from that came to the conclusion that the only way for nintendo to fit the SoC and battery they would need to ditch joycons.

Really hoping nintendo isn't dumb enough to go with 8N, but it sounds like that's a possibility again.
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I really don’t buy the insistence on the “because 8N -> big console edit: 8” screen is being used”. That’s actually only come exclusively from John. If you listen Nate never agrees to that point of speculation, he only says it’s going to be a large system due to using an 8” screen.
 
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Hi.

I don't care about back compatibility. I don't care about OLED.

I just need to know how large the bezels will be. Because fat bezels are a crime against nature and anyone doing it in 2024 should be humiliated in public.
 
TomNookYankees said:
Seems like they probably got further confirmation that the SoC is going to be huge (8N) and from that came to the conclusion that the only way for nintendo to fit the SoC and battery they would need to ditch joycons.

Really hoping nintendo isn't dumb enough to go with 8N, but it sounds like that's a possibility again.
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I wouldn't see it as confirmation. I also think that a model with fixed joycons in addition to the core model is a possibility. I think though, that joycons will be a mainstay of the Switch line - even if they're not part of every model.
 
karmitt said:
I really don’t buy the insistence on the “because 8N -> big console”. That’s actually only come exclusively from John. If you listen Nate never agrees to that point of speculation, he only says it’s going to be a large system due to using an 8” screen.
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8N meaning a big console wasn't just form DF. It's also from people in this thread who argued that there was no way it wouldn't be 5nm because of how absurdly large the battery would need to be (and/or how inefficiently the SoC would have to be underclocked) for 8N to work.

darthdiablo said:
But your comment doesn't make sense either.

Are you saying the body won't accept detachable controllers? So it's no longer a handheld?

I'm sure I'm misunderstanding somewhere here, can you expand?
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Easier to fit stuff when you don't have to also fit in the systems for having the controller attach/detach.
 
TomNookYankees said:
8N meaning a big console wasn't just form DF. It's also from people in this thread who argued that there was no way it wouldn't be 5nm because of how absurdly large the battery would need to be (and/or how inefficiently the SoC would have to be underclocked) for 8N to work.
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I could see a bigger screen if it's a balance to get them space for a bigger battery for a longer battery life.

However, I'd rather a slightly thicker console if that's the reason.

March 18th can't come soon enough. I want to see the end of these lines of speculation.
 
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