StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[Aether]

The simplest version is that the resolution of the screen basically doesn't matter to power draw at all. It's a little more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.

All screens emit light. Light is energy. The amount of energy coming into your face is how much energy it takes to power the screen. Or it would be, if screens were 100% efficient, but they're not, they lose some electricity as heat. Not all tech is equally efficient, like the difference between a gas-guzzler and a hybrid vehicle.

So, given two screens, made from the same tech, the bigger screen will eat more power. "Bigger" not "higher resolution." Resolution only matters from GPU power draw, but even then, the screen resolution doesn't matter.

Yes, a lower rendering resolution saves power, but so do low settings in general. A game developer wants their games to look as good as possible and run as well as possible, and so do you, right? If you give them 5 Watts of GPU power, they'll use every drop. If you force a lower resolution on them by picking a 720p screen, they'll just go "well, we're resolution capped, but that means we can push every other setting up to high!"

Same thing with DLSS. All of this "lower screen res/DLSS saves power" stuff is from PC land, where I can force a game to run under maximum performance in order to squeeze out an extra 20 minutes of battery life on my Steam Deck. But that's not how it will work in a console.

Overall you're right, I just want to be pedantic
There is also a part of energy emitted as electromagnetic radiation outside of the visible light spectrum, and higher resolution screen means more complex/faster working screen controller (for the logic to distribute the information to the pixels), which also takes some power.

(In reality both are so small in impact that you can ignore it)

What DOES make a difference:
LCD and OLED when on the same average brightness for a non strictly white screen, won't produce the same amount of light.
It's that lcd needs to filter out so much of it to not let it get to the viewer, that it has to produce more light to compensate, meaning more heat/power consumption.

Yeah, I know, pedantic, your post was perfectly fine

About all the worries about controller compatibility:
Adapter rails? Sell them for 9,99$ a pop, or if they need a translator chip (would be really weird design decision...) Then have them be 14,99. Heck, bump that up to 19,99$ even for basic ones, people will buy them, can charge them on switch 2 and use them if they prefere them to the new ones. And to make it even more of a no trainer: have it be a order only thing, meaning not cluttering the stores, but giving people that care an option. Don't know, in my mind it's a no trainer, it should be a rather cheap option for Nintendo

 

[BDGAME]

Why would you prefer everybody to toss Joycon into trash? Is it the drifting issue?

If so, that doesn't mean those without drifting issues should have to toss those in the trash too.

I'll give that I changed my mind on having Switch 1 joycons be compatible with Switch 2 body - as was pointed out to me, the torque can be an issue, won't be strong enough for Switch 2 body. However, there's no reason to not allow wireless connection between Switch 1 joycons and Switch 2 body.

Telling Nintendo customers the $70 Switch 1 Joycons they paid for are useless right out of the gate when they get Switch 2 when wireless connection is an option doesn't seem customer friendly

Yes, because the drift that is making Nintendo lose money, they would prefer not incenrivate people to bring their Joycon for the next gen. But I say a wireless connection, like they did with switch lite, can be a solution to not toss it out completely.

 

[Kise Ryota]

After 1 year with an Ampere GPU I decided to test DLSS, specially the performance and ultra performance presets lol
I mean, everything I was playing was running very well, so I didn't need to use DLSS. But I had to see it with my own eyes without all the YouTube compression lol

And I'm really impressed with how good the games still look when using Performance. I was using a 27" 1080p monitor, and I'm sure that in a small screen it will look fantastic. And even Ultra Performance (when well implemented, it seems) can become a viable solution for those "really, really impossible ports"; not pretty, but functional. But I feel that Performance just offers the best trade-off, and I expect to see many 3rd party titles using it.

Of course DLSS (at least with a 1080p output) is not perfect, and I could spot some ghosting even using the Quality preset (it just starts to become more and more evident going from Quality to Ultra Performance).

Also, in Death Stranding I noticed that the IQ of the waterfall changed a lot when DLSS was turned on.

Left is 1080p, right is DLSS Quality:

Spoiler

I wonder if this happened because the internal resolution (720p) was still too low for the DLSS to work with, or if devs could have done something different to avoid this result (the same for the ghosting and any other artefact that DLSS can produce)

BTW, here's the link for an album with the screenshots I took

PS: Guardians of the Galaxy was the only game that I tried that looked really bad on Performance (Ultra Performance was so bad I didn't even care to save the screenshot). Even in Quality it was clearly worse than 1080p. I think they had post-processing before the DLSS, and that killed the chances of the AI having the pixels in its "raw" state to do a better job.

 

[Langstonboy]

I’m sorry Apple ain’t doing sh!t to VR lol. It’s a dead platform. That’s huge money sinking gamble that they just did.

The only thing that will experience a massive reawakening is A.I. That will be a household staple.

People said the same thing about smartphones how “conversion devices are not needed or useful”. You’re going to be wrong I’m certain it will be the future in one way or another in the next 15 years.

 

[monstaar]

People said the same thing about smartphones how “conversion devices are not needed or useful”. You’re going to be wrong I’m certain it will be the future in one way or another in the next 15 years.

Hmm growing up in the early 90s it seemed everyone loved portable phones (in movies,tv,Hollywood stars…) even my grandpa had a wired cell phone in his 1932 Ford Roadster in 1992. lol

 

[crazybenjamin]

The dumb thing is, I could do it if I had the PS4 version of the game instead of the PS5 Version!

Not only that, if you play a PS5 game using Remote Play, then all of a sudden Dualshock 4 becomes an option again.

 

[Ars2439]

VR conversation! If the PS4 was able to do it, then I don't see why Switch 2 couldn't. I've always thought the shape of the joycon would lend themselves pretty well to it, but using the console itself as the headset like LABO or the Pimax Portal isn't the way to go unless they can pull some kind of dark magic with the optics. Not sure what to think about standalone though, unless it can connect to the main console to play flatscreen games like a mainline Mariokart, like how the Quest can be used standalone or linked to the PC.

Or they could just use the tablet (that millions will already have) as the computer unit.

This is an AR device called Magic Leap:

Spoiler

Just replace that compute unit with the switch 2 tablet:

Spoiler

Yeah, not as clean as a meta quest, I know lol
But hey! Apple is also using cables! (to connect the HMD to a battery lol)

This would be much cheaper, and the VR device wouldn't compete for components (manufacturing wise) with the hybrid console.

I think this would be a great way to do it if it were to arrive this generation. Tether up while docked for a wired experience with no battery life or latency concerns, or pick it up for an hour or two of untethered gameplay.

 

[Multiverse]

Apple is not after VR. VR will never go mainstream. I do agree its a gamble, the headset is a pathway to the Glasses. The OS/hardware will evolve and become mainstream in 10-15 years like smartphones are now.

It will be interesting to see where it goes. If VR was the target, where you don't see the real world that product would been a dead end, thankfully Apple focused on MR.

We’re about 50 years away from VR being really useable imo. Even that I’m not so sure. I feel another technology is going to come by and take over.

I don’t see wearing glasses to compute is the next thing. It’s just not. Everyone is going to be wearing glasses? What . I see potential in foldable screens (basically the ability to change screen size at will). I also think holograms or projectors could become more mainstream due to the same reason esp in the future if it gets really good to the point of literally looking like a screen and being usable in daylight. You’ll be able to use your phone as a small device or big tablet through holograms, or projector, or whatever. I’m talking about the fact that the screen itself has the ability to change size, not that you have to connect to another device to do it. Your phone doesn’t have a screen no more but another tech to display content that can morph its size at will. And this technology should spread across most computing platforms like screens are today (desktops, phones, watches, etc). That I can see. That is “spacial computing”. You don’t have to wear glasses .

 

[monstaar]

We’re about 50 years away from VR being really useable imo. Even that I’m not sure. I feel another technology is going to come by and take over.

I don’t see wearing glasses to compute is the next thing. It’s just not. Everyone is going to be wearing glasses? What . I see potential in foldable screens (basically the ability to change screen size at will). I also think holograms or projectors could become more mainstream due to the same reason esp in the future if it gets really good to the point of it literally looking like a screen and usable in daylight. You’ll be able to use your phone as a small device or big tablet through holograms or projector or whatever. I’m talking about the screen itself has the ability to change size not that you have to connect to another device to do it. That I can see. That is “spacial computing”. You don’t have to wear glasses

I was interested in getting one of those new folding screen phones. I loved the idea of actually watching movies and tv on the go. Hopefully prices go down in the future too

 

[Langstonboy]

VR conversation! If the PS4 was able to do it, then I don't see why Switch 2 couldn't. I've always thought the shape of the joycon would lend themselves pretty well to it, but using the console itself as the headset like LABO or the Pimax Portal isn't the way to go unless they can pull some kind of dark magic with the optics. Not sure what to think about standalone though, unless it can connect to the main console to play flatscreen games like a mainline Mariokart, like how the Quest can be used standalone or linked to the PC.

I think this would be a great way to do it if it were to arrive this generation. Tether up while docked for a wired experience with no battery life or latency concerns, or pick it up for an hour or two of untethered gameplay.

VR on PS4 isn’t much better than Google cardboard tbh, it sucks. Maybe have a xr2 like chip without the high power cpu and gpu and just stream the switch 2 video to the headset and do all the vr processing on the headset, or just put a co processor with a t239 in the headset and make a high budget VR mode for prime 4 and Mario Kart, like RE4 remake VR mode. But I don’t think now is the time to do VR because it seems to be viewed in a very negative light by gamers and the main stream, due to the anti user privacy group having a big VR push that was focused on the wrong things and has lead to complete garbage. And accessibility is a major issue, and is why VR should just be a mode for major 1st party Switch 2 games and not mandatory for any games because it can cut out certain people from being able to game.

 

[Langstonboy]

We’re about 50 years away from VR being really useable imo. Even that I’m not sure. I feel another technology is going to come by and take over.

I don’t see wearing glasses to compute is the next thing. It’s just not. Everyone is going to be wearing glasses? What . I see potential in foldable screens (basically the ability to change screen size at will). I also think holograms or projectors could become more mainstream due to the same reason esp in the future if it gets really good to the point of literally looking like a screen and being usable in daylight. You’ll be able to use your phone as a small device or big tablet through holograms, or projector, or whatever. I’m talking about the fact that the screen itself has the ability to change size, not that you have to connect to another device to do it. That I can see. That is “spacial computing”. You don’t have to wear glasses .

It’s obviously not going to replace Phones or be used in public, but it could be used as a tv replacement.

 

[monstaar]

VR on PS4 isn’t much better than Google cardboard tbh, it sucks. Maybe have a xr2 like chip without the high power cpu and gpu and just stream the switch 2 video to the headset and do all the vr processing on the headset, or just put a co processor with a t239 in the headset and make a high budget VR mode for prime 4 and Mario Kart, like RE4 remake VR mode. But I don’t think now is the time to do VR because it seems to be viewed in a very negative light by gamers and the main stream, due to the anti user privacy group having a big VR push that was focused on the wrong things and has lead to complete garbage. And accessibility is a major issue, and is why VR should just be a mode for major 1st party Switch 2 games and not mandatory for any games because it can cut out certain people from being able to game.

Thanks for thinking about accessibility, I’m super into video gaming for everyone. That’s why I get heated sometimes haha (it comes from a good place I promise)

 

[Zedark]

VR in general has not solved for the problem that movement is a full-body experience, and that whenever you represent it as purely a visual change, the brain literally does not compute what is happening. That's why the compelling gameplay that we have developed for non-VR games does not translate to a good experience, and it requires significant trickery to trick the brain into coalescing with the experience. Funnily enough, hallucinogenic drugs are probably going to be the easiest way to get VR movement to feel right lol. But that is obviously not really a great way to go about it, either.

But yeah, VR needs many years of academic and industry research to overcome limitations imposed on it by a neural system that evolved to experience motion with a full body, rather than just with a set of eyes. And that is assuming that it ever can become a mode of gaming that can translate existing gameplay effectively or can create gameplay that is equally compelling.

 

[ExoticSpice]

I don’t see wearing glasses to compute is the next thing. It’s just not. Everyone is going to be wearing glasses? What . I see potential in foldable screens (basically the ability to change screen size at will). I also think holograms or projectors could become more mainstream due to the same reason esp in the future if it gets really good to the point of literally looking like a screen and being usable in daylight. You’ll be able to use your phone as a small device or big tablet through holograms, or projector, or whatever. I’m talking about the fact that the screen itself has the ability to change size, not that you have to connect to another device to do it. Your phone doesn’t have a screen no more but another tech to display content that can morph its size at will. And this technology should spread across most computing platforms, like screens are today (LCD, OLED, etc). That I can see. That is “spacial computing”. You don’t have to wear glasses .

That also sounds cool. Could be both really, I can really see the appeal of watching a move/tv show in MR. The morphing display tech is very early now I think.

For me at least having your own 100" screen on the go sounds fun.

 

[adiGuba]

Thanks for thinking about accessibility, I’m super into video gaming for everyone. That’s why I get heated sometimes haha (it comes from a good place I promise)

 

[Mirev]

Are we seeing the same thing?

I can't see anything bad in Horizon Forbidden West for PS4 Pro. Xenoblade 2 was really bad.

 

[Horror Kid]

I see the blurriness of Aloy but I think it is not an issue while playing yourself.
You usually don't focus on the character model all the time, you just look at the surrounding.

Maybe it is a strange depth of field effect that you can deactivate.

 

[wikem1]

VR in general has not solved for the problem that movement is a full-body experience, and that whenever you represent it as purely a visual change, the brain literally does not compute what is happening. That's why the compelling gameplay that we have developed for non-VR games does not translate to a good experience, and it requires significant trickery to trick the brain into coalescing with the experience. Funnily enough, hallucinogenic drugs are probably going to be the easiest way to get VR movement to feel right lol. But that is obviously not really a great way to go about it, either.

But yeah, VR needs many years of academic and industry research to overcome limitations imposed on it by a neural system that evolved to experience motion with a full body, rather than just with a set of eyes. And that is assuming that it ever can become a mode of gaming that can translate existing gameplay effectively or can create gameplay that is equally compelling.

I fully agree with this statement - motion sickness and VR are a problem for a significant part of the population (unfortunately, including me).

Given that Nintendo has a very family-friendly reputation, a game like Mario Kart VR could be even disastrous in that respect: imagine 10% or more of buyers complaining about paying hundreds of dollars for an experience they cannot enjoy?

 

[Giancarlo]

how is expensive is for Nintendo to have a custom made chipset compared to a already made chipset? because depeding in how is expensive to made a custom made chipset,Nintendo might opt to a already used chipset.

 

[Darknut85]

how is expensive is for Nintendo to have a custom made chipset compared to a already made chipset? because depeding in how is expensive to made a custom made chipset,Nintendo might opt to a already used chipset.

The T239 is a custom chipset.

 

[Zedark]

how is expensive is for Nintendo to have a custom made chipset compared to a already made chipset? because depeding in how is expensive to made a custom made chipset,Nintendo might opt to a already used chipset.

I am reminded of what Cerny said during the PS5 spec reveal talk: 'we work together with AMD on developing new hardware designs that subsequently appear in new PC hardware. So just because hardware features become available in PCs doesn't mean that the processor was not custom made.' (This is a paraphrase, not a direct quote)

Nintendo likely has significant input on the chip design, and NVIDIA are designing the T239 for their desires, even if at a later point in time the T239 will be used (perhaps in some modified fashion) in different, off-the-shelf devices.

If your question is whether they can use an existing mobile device chip, then no, because there isn't one that NVIDIA made since the Tegra X2 in 2017, which is almost the same as the Switch V2 SoC.

 

[darthdiablo]

how is expensive is for Nintendo to have a custom made chipset compared to a already made chipset? because depeding in how is expensive to made a custom made chipset,Nintendo might opt to a already used chipset.

The question probably should be, how expensive would it be for Nintendo to NOT go the custom chip route? We are talking possibly suboptimal SoC configuration compared to what a custom SoC can offer, etc

 

[Cerlinho]

GIVE IT UP FOR JANUARY 30TH!!!

 

[Bonejack]

I do think it wasn't cheap for Nintendo to have nVidia develop the T239, but i also think that nVidia might've given them a "special offer", given they do benefit from having their tools like DLSS enter the console market via ReDraketed.

Basically a "both scratch their backs" situation.

GIVE IT UP FOR JANUARY 30TH!!!

Wrong thread?!

 

[Giancarlo]

The question probably should be, how expensive would it be for Nintendo to NOT go the custom chip route? We are talking possibly suboptimal SoC configuration compared to what a custom SoC can offer, etc

i meant, what option will cost more for Nintendo, a custom made chipset or a chipset already used like Tegra X2?

 

[Hermii]

how is expensive is for Nintendo to have a custom made chipset compared to a already made chipset? because depeding in how is expensive to made a custom made chipset,Nintendo might opt to a already used chipset.

The problem with going off the shelf this time around, is that Nvidia doesnt have any good alternatives. The non automotive tegra line is dead. All their already made chipsets have a lot of hardware in them, thats no use in a game console.

 

[Cerlinho]

Wrong thread?!

Oh no

 

[BreakAtmo]

After 1 year with an Ampere GPU I decided to test DLSS, specially the performance and ultra performance presets lol
I mean, everything I was playing was running very well, so I didn't need to use DLSS. But I had to see it with my own eyes without all the YouTube compression lol

And I'm really impressed with how good the games still look when using Performance. I was using a 27" 1080p monitor, and I'm sure that in a small screen it will look fantastic. And even Ultra Performance (when well implemented, it seems) can become a viable solution for those "really, really impossible ports"; not pretty, but functional. But I feel that Performance just offers the best trade-off, and I expect to see many 3rd party titles using it.

Of course DLSS (at least with a 1080p output) is not perfect, and I could spot some ghosting even using the Quality preset (it just starts to become more and more evident going from Quality to Ultra Performance).

Also, in Death Stranding I noticed that the IQ of the waterfall changed a lot when DLSS was turned on.

Left is 1080p, right is DLSS Quality:

Spoiler

I wonder if this happened because the internal resolution (720p) was still too low for the DLSS to work with, or if devs could have done something different to avoid this result (the same for the ghosting and any other artefact that DLSS can produce)

BTW, here's the link for an album with the screenshots I took

PS: Guardians of the Galaxy was the only game that I tried that looked really bad on Performance (Ultra Performance was so bad I didn't even care to save the screenshot). Even in Quality it was clearly worse than 1080p. I think they had post-processing before the DLSS, and that killed the chances of the AI having the pixels in its "raw" state to do a better job.

Download DLSS Swapper, it lets you update the DLSS .dll files in games with more recent versions. Change them all to the most recent 3.5.10 version and see if it fixes any issues you have.

 

[theguy]

when furukawa inevitably says: “At Nintendo we are constantly researching and developing new technologies to delight our fans. I cannot comment on next generation hardware at this time”

us:

 

[ERezaSwitch]

 

[ertaboy356b]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

 

[Giancarlo]

when furukawa inevitably says: “At Nintendo we are constantly researching and developing new technologies to delight our fans. I cannot comment on next generation hardware at this time”

us:
be patience, one day eventually Nintendo will confirm Switch sucessor is real and they plan to launch in this fiscal year(even if take 5 more years for the console to come out)

 

[SoldierDelta]

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[ertaboy356b]

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[Individualised]

We got December customs data early?

 

[ERezaSwitch]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

 

[SoldierDelta]

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[SoldierDelta]

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[Apenknul]

I'm not confident about VR yet. I haven't experienced it that much, and the idea is cool, but I think Nintendo should stick to stereoscopic 3D from the 3DS to be a feature in the Switch 2. Like a VR headset, but instead of VR it shows that stereoscopic 3D. Imo, that shit was the bomb. Would happily see that back.
Yeah, it'll probably be like Virtual Boy, but I'm confident it that after so many years, they found a way to fix things from that. And if it would be a seperate product, instead of a bundle type of thing, then people who had a bad experience from the 3D of 3DS, have the choice not to buy it. But yeah, overall, I think Nintendo should stick to stereoscopic 3D.

 

[pelusilla6]

We got December customs data early?

Not the vietnamese one, 1-2 weeks left i think

 

[darthdiablo]

Not the vietnamese one, 1-2 weeks left i think

Correct. Countries are handled differently (perhaps based on their own reporting guidelines etc)

Vietnamese (which Hosiden has locations in) data has been coming during first few weeks of month (often 1st week but not always). And is based on 2 month old data

Other countries like US, we have more recent data for

 

[Hermii]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

 

[darthdiablo]

 

[omniryu]

gotta love Super Metal Dave. Although he did some good research for one of his previous video, he is back to his nonsense again. He has a new video out now where he did some 'research' and he think there is two options for the Switch 2. The first is of course the T239. The other option is a Samsung Xclipse 940 GPU. And this GPU has the AMD RDNA3 architecture.

Lol if you knew SMD he does his best to ship Nintendo with AMD. I remember back in the day where he sworn up and down that the Switch was powered by AMD.

I wouldn't be surprised he has a tattoo that looks like this:

Nintendo
+
AMD
forever

 

[Kise Ryota]

I think Nintendo should stick to stereoscopic 3D from the 3DS to be a feature in the Switch 2. Like a VR headset, but instead of VR it shows that stereoscopic 3D. Imo, that shit was the bomb. Would happily see that back.

I was playing some 3DS on my meta quest 3. It's just a huge screen floating in front of you with the best stereoscopic 3D effect I have never seen on the 3ds itself. So good!

 

[Individualised]

Not the vietnamese one, 1-2 weeks left i think

Thought it was Vietnam for a moment - my bad.

 

[D36]

Wrong thread?!

Stil applicable, if we're being honest.

 

[Bigdog]

Hah - well, what do you want explained

I'm good right now, because the way you write is easy to understand. But I will happily make a suggestion when something comes up, if this is your way of opening the door to ideas?

 

[ziggyrivers]

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

VR in general has not solved for the problem that movement is a full-body experience, and that whenever you represent it as purely a visual change, the brain literally does not compute what is happening. That's why the compelling gameplay that we have developed for non-VR games does not translate to a good experience, and it requires significant trickery to trick the brain into coalescing with the experience. Funnily enough, hallucinogenic drugs are probably going to be the easiest way to get VR movement to feel right lol. But that is obviously not really a great way to go about it, either.

But yeah, VR needs many years of academic and industry research to overcome limitations imposed on it by a neural system that evolved to experience motion with a full body, rather than just with a set of eyes. And that is assuming that it ever can become a mode of gaming that can translate existing gameplay effectively or can create gameplay that is equally compelling.

Actually the best move to overcome this I've seen was ironically Labo VR. The flying mini game had you use a cardboard pedal to flap the wings in your pedal-bird-plame that had a fan attached. When you repeatedly stepped on it, it would blow air in your face. This somehow worked extremely well to help trick your brain into believing you were moving.