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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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MP! said:
I'm expecting the same thing to happen as usual.

New exciting hardware comes out and New Pokemon game comes out which does not take advantage of this hardware.
Specifically I remember black and white coming out and being completely bummed that it had zero features for the 3DS when played on a 3DS

That's pretty much what I expect this time.
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This time is truly very different. A Nintendo DS Game Card couldn't interface with 3DS hardware - it just booted as a DS game. A modern Switch game, even on Game Card, it's just software. There WAS definitely hardware limitations stopping them from "enhancing" Black/White/2 on 3DS beyond the tiny things they did. Not this time, though. In a world of updates, where NG backwards compatibility is software based, and where enhancement doesn't require a physically seperate Game Card. They could include an executable compiled for the next gen system on the Game Card, in theory.

I don't expect HUGE enhancements for cross-gen games, but where they could improve B/W/2 on 3DS, networking, they did. Now they have the opportunity to provide enhancements in resolution and performance, why wouldn't they?
 
Concernt said:
This time is truly very different. A Nintendo DS Game Card couldn't interface with 3DS hardware - it just booted as a DS game. A modern Switch game, even on Game Card, it's just software. There WAS definitely hardware limitations stopping them from "enhancing" Black/White/2 on 3DS beyond the tiny things they did. Not this time, though. In a world of updates, where NG backwards compatibility is software based, and where enhancement doesn't require a physically seperate Game Card. They could include an executable compiled for the next gen system on the Game Card, in theory.

I don't expect HUGE enhancements for cross-gen games, but where they could improve B/W/2 on 3DS, networking, they did. Now they have the opportunity to provide enhancements in resolution and performance, why wouldn't they?
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hey, I hope I'm wrong.
I'd love to be pleasantly surprised
 
Danny said:
The Steam deck since its release has followed a trajectory of a very slow but gradual increase in sales, it would be totally implausible for it to suddenly have a dramatic explosion of sales that is coming from nowhere.

And remember; Steam Deck has been much more powerful than the Switch since release, and still haven't been able to compete. When the Switch 2 release and the power performance difference has been eroded the Steam deck is even less of a challenge for Nintendo than ever before. And the Steam deck will no longer be able to play Switch 2 games because the Switch 2 will not be cracked and emulated as fast and easily as the Switch was.
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The Steam Deck is not only about power, also about freedom. Being free from paid online and cloud saves, having access to the biggest library of games on the planet and so on.

Also as long as the Deck is not available everywhere, it's never gonna compete against the Switch 2 anyways.

I feels to many people here think about Deck only as a "powerful machine", when the Deck's power is not one of the more important aspects of it.

A power the Deck has: buying a game like Elden Ring on my desktop, playing it there and continuing my save on the train.
 
I personally dont see how Nintendo can go past the February meeting without mentioning the next system since there is no more holiday sales to cannibalize
 
fantomena said:
The Steam Deck is not only about power, also about freedom. Being free from paid online and cloud saves, having access to the biggest library of games on the planet and so on.

Also as long as the Deck is not available everywhere, it's never gonna compete against the Switch 2 anyways.

I feels to many people here think about Deck only as a "powerful machine", when the Deck's power is not one of the more important aspects of it.

A power the Deck has: buying a game like Elden Ring on my desktop, playing it there and continuing my save on the train.
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I would never pull out a device that ugly in public but that’s just me
 
darthdiablo said:
I checked, it's true. Only one original IP announced for 2024 so far: Princess Peach Showtime.

We cannot say MP4 is 2024, no release date has been announced.

Image courtesy here, with caveats: Chart is now 2 months old - as an example, Outer Wilds has since been released, so it's not a 2024 title as indicated here.

I've red-circled all known "Nintendo Published" titles (golden Nintendo logo in middle of "stamp" to the left of game title logos)

GBSSb80.jpg
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They forgot third party games like Kingdom Come Deliverance or Decapolice
 
Ojoloco said:
They forgot third party games like Kingdom Come Deliverance or Decapolice
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On top of my comment, I mentioned the chart is 2 months old. Thus the reason why we see Outer Wilds still shown under 2024. And I'm playing Outer Wilds right now on my Switch, lol.

The usage of chart in my comment (with my annotations) was solely about Nintendo-published games, to support Concernt's assertion about there being only a single new original Nintendo-published game announced for 2024 so far.
 
AxkilAvenger said:
I would never pull out a device that ugly in public but that’s just me
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Imagine caring what other people think about how your electronic device looks.

I have many times used my Deck on a train. If someone thinks it's ugly? Okay? I don't care. It's not like people are coming up to me "Hi man, that device is some fugly device". Mind your own business, which the majority of people do, so having an ugly device on public transportation is not a problem.

I have seen people sitting with some of the ugliest laptops Ive seen in my life on a train. But nobody cars about that because it's none of people's business.
 
Individualised said:
Why is the 2025 discourse now leaking into this thread? Keep the unfounded doomposting in the software thread please.
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While I understand the mod's perspective of being tolerant of different perspectives, wasn't doomposting and other similar "Nintendo gonna Nintendo" argument responses banned from this thread? It's specifically pointed out in the OP!

(And yes, I know it is Doom's 30th Anniversary. I'm celebrating it by playing Doom 3 on Switch.)

As for successor talk, please, more greentext discussion.
 
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darthdiablo said:
I checked, it's true. Only one original IP announced for 2024 so far: Princess Peach Showtime.

We cannot say MP4 is 2024, no release date has been announced.

Image courtesy here, with caveats: Chart is now 2 months old - as an example, Outer Wilds has since been released, so it's not a 2024 title as indicated here.

I've red-circled all known "Nintendo Published" titles (golden Nintendo logo in middle of "stamp" to the left of game title logos)

GBSSb80.jpg
Click to expand...
Wow that’s a lot of Nintendo games, I wonder how they’ll manage to fit in a Switch 2 release

/s
 
Can someone with more insight to a development environment answer this for me?

Say Turn Me Up wanted to enhance Arkham Knight for the Switch 2. Without creating a bespoke Switch 2 build, could they achieve visual parity with the PS4 version of the game by, idk how to say it...by fine-tuning what's there, or "turning all the settings up"?

Specifically, what I mean is this. I know they can get in there and increase the resolution cap. I know they can improve the LODs. (maybe?) increase texture resolution (are those higher res textures on the cutting room floor now or is resolution just turned down and a modder could increase it?) [One example - in the opening diner there are posters and stuff missing on the wall. Are those probably baked into the texture and all that detail would come back if the texture quality was higher? Or did they manually snip out a lot of this?)

But what I don't know is if certain things have been "stripped out" or just "turned down." Like the lighting - idk if it's the lighting itself or the way materials interact with the light, but obviously the game looks quite different during that first pan and then zoom across Batman's cowl when you first take control of him. Or when he's talking to Ivy - there's much more depth, shadow, etc. to the image. Is that "gone" or just "turned down" when developers have to make severe visual compromises like that in a port like this? Is it possible for them to crank the quality back up or is that not something really possible in the confines of an enhancement patch to a bad looking version of a game?

Apologies for being pretty wordy. Word vomited! And I don't mean to imply with any of this that would be an "easy" job for Turn Me Up to do this - just wondering technically what the limits are of tinkering with a downgraded build like this.
 
bloopland33 said:
Can someone with more insight to a development environment answer this for me?

Say Turn Me Up wanted to enhance Arkham Knight for the Switch 2. Without creating a bespoke Switch 2 build, could they achieve visual parity with the PS4 version of the game by, idk how to say it...by fine-tuning what's there, or "turning all the settings up"?

Specifically, what I mean is this. I know they can get in there and increase the resolution cap. I know they can improve the LODs. (maybe?) increase texture resolution (are those higher res textures on the cutting room floor now or is resolution just turned down and a modder could increase it?) [One example - in the opening diner there are posters and stuff missing on the wall. Are those probably baked into the texture and all that detail would come back if the texture quality was higher? Or did they manually snip out a lot of this?)

But what I don't know is if certain things have been "stripped out" or just "turned down." Like the lighting - idk if it's the lighting itself or the way materials interact with the light, but obviously the game looks quite different during that first pan and then zoom across Batman's cowl when you first take control of him. Or when he's talking to Ivy - there's much more depth, shadow, etc. to the image. Is that "gone" or just "turned down" when developers have to make severe visual compromises like that in a port like this? Is it possible for them to crank the quality back up or is that not something really possible in the confines of an enhancement patch to a bad looking version of a game?

Apologies for being pretty wordy. Word vomited! And I don't mean to imply with any of this that would be an "easy" job for Turn Me Up to do this - just wondering technically what the limits are of tinkering with a downgraded build like this.
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It depends on how backwards compatibility works, but it shouldn't be a difficult thing in theory, not easy, but not impossible.
 
Concernt said:
This is pre-release non-gameplay footage of a game two years out from release, and we're discussing it in the context of a console we're not even certain of the clock speeds of, which isn't even officially announced.

There's no way we can know at present what does or doesn't need to be done for this game to come to NG Switch.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I want to say the original GTAV trailer was also one of those "Wow, look at those graphics!" type games, and then the PS3 and 360 ended up not looking as good until the PC version launched, followed by the next-gen updates for PS5, and XSeries.

I think the GTAVI trailer is of a similar vain. The PS5 and XSeries versions may not actually look like the trailer. In a previous post, I even mentioned I think Rockstar will be targeting 30fps for PS5, and XSeries, which unfortunately would make the prospect of a Switch 2 conversion less likely, though certainly not impossible. Switcher 3 was proved possible, and that is also 30fps on PS4/Xbone.

ziggyrivers said:
Although I concur that 2025 is possible (the lowest possible and probable scenario), I don’t think the Switch has another Christmas left in it. Yes, Pokemon is releasing in 2024 with who knows what title, but I sincerely doubt the Switch 1 lineup, alone, can survive Holidays 2024. Unless:
• Nintendo does a price cut
• They release a themed SKU
• A new revision
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Interestingly, I said something similar for Holiday 2023, provided the Switch 2 was unveiled this year rather than projected to be 2024. A Price cut would certainly help, though Nintendo does love that sweet sweet money on each system sold. A new themed SKU is also certainly possible, but those only carry so many in sales. And I doubt a revision is even in the cards unless a 10nm, or 12nm die shrink is on the table, which I don't see it at this point given how old the Tegra X1 chip is. Just seems like diminished returns for an 8 year old chip.

Danny said:
The only purpose of the Steam deck is for Nintendo haters to have something to dream will kill off Nintendo, all Nintendo haters make youtube videos everyday of Nintendo going out of business because of the Steam deck.
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As a Steam Deck, and Nintendo Switch owner, I suppose the only hate I have is myself...

But seriously, when the Deck was announced, I did say at one point (not on this forum) that this could be a wake up call for Nintendo. Today, I will say I'm mostly wrong, though the Steam Deck has legitimized handheld gaming PCs to the point where more options are better. Most love the idea of the Switch because you can game on the go with the latest and greatest titles. Now it is possible to do that with your entire Steam library of over 1000 games we will never play.

I think there are more than a few folks out there who think the Switch 2 won't be as groundbreaking as Switch 1 at least in terms of the hybrid nature of the platform. Though in fairness to Nintendo, going from handheld to docked, and vice versa is non-comparable to the other handheld gaming systems. It is absolutely flawless, and just works.

The Steam Deck has at least made the concept of PC gaming on-the-go more intuitive, and very console-like, even with Proton, and SteamOS. My dream at this point is for SteamOS to become the standard for PC Gaming, and as such, my Gaming PC won't have to be stuck with Windows anymore.
 
fantomena said:
Imagine caring what other people think about how your electronic device looks.

I have many times used my Deck on a train. If someone thinks it's ugly? Okay? I don't care. It's not like people are coming up to me "Hi man, that device is some fugly device". Mind your own business, which the majority of people do, so having an ugly device on public transportation is not a problem.

I have seen people sitting with some of the ugliest laptops Ive seen in my life on a train. But nobody cars about that because it's none of people's business.
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Yeah I do care what people think of a device I’m holding in public. That’s why handheld device should look pleasant to the eye. I wouldn’t carry around a phone in public that looks like I’m holding a tank in my hand. Why would I proudly carry around a video game console that looks like one.
 
I think the single biggest limiting factor of these handheld PC devices is that they're all based on AMD GPUs that largely still rely on doing more computations for achieving greater visual fidelity. This imposes a proportional cost in energy consumption that current battery technology isn't keeping up with yet, and there are diminishing returns for optimizing this architecture for energy efficiency. Nvidia DLSS is a significant gamechanger in this regard since it provides that additional fidelity through different means.
 
InsaneZero said:
I think the single biggest limiting factor of these handheld PC devices is that they're all based on AMD GPUs that largely still rely on doing more computations for achieving greater visual fidelity. This imposes a proportional cost in energy consumption that current battery technology isn't keeping up with yet, and there are diminishing returns for optimizing this architecture for energy efficiency. Nvidia DLSS is a significant gamechanger in this regard since it provides that additional fidelity through different means.
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Nah, I don’t think AMD is really the issue here, it’s that they aren’t meant for this extremely limited device scenarios that they are put in. At worst a laptop is what they would be for, not intense gaming handhelds.
 
AxkilAvenger said:
Yeah I do care what people think of a device I’m holding in public. That’s why handheld device should look pleasant to the eye. I wouldn’t carry around a phone in public that looks like I’m holding a tank in my hand. Why would I proudly carry around a video game console that looks like one.
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Then I feel sorry for you that you do care. Because most people don't and if some people do care if they think my Steam Deck is ugly? Fuck em.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
Nah, I don’t think AMD is really the issue here, it’s that they aren’t meant for this extremely limited device scenarios that they are put in. At worst a laptop is what they would be for, not intense gaming handhelds.
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I don't find the intended use case for these GPUs to be particularly relevant since that doesn't actually change the fact that these devices are using them anyway. The caveats that would make the GPUs more suitable for laptops still need to be addressed for a portable PC device, and I don't see anything in the AMD roadmap that would meaningfully address those issues.
 
Ojoloco said:
It depends on how backwards compatibility works, but it shouldn't be a difficult thing in theory, not easy, but not impossible.
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My question is operating under the assumption that BC will work like the other two. In such a way that, if a dev wants to offer enhancements with a patch, they can.

But I don't know, in the development of a port, if certain things become so compromised to the point that the downgrade was more bespoke than just "we're turning this down."
 
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InsaneZero said:
I don't find the intended use case for these GPUs to be particularly relevant since that doesn't actually change the fact that these devices are using them anyway. The caveats that would make the GPUs more suitable for laptops still need to be addressed for a portable PC device, and I don't see anything in the AMD roadmap that would meaningfully address those issues.
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It’s relevant because laptops aren’t as space limited, they aren’t as battery limited and they also aren’t as cooling limited. Handheld PCs are very limited by the very nature of their design.
 
So Moonki Jang from Samsung Electronics talked about how viable RISC-V is currently with respect to designing a high end SoC.

I'm sure Nintendo's considering RISC-V in the future. But definitely not right now, and I don't think anytime in the foreseeable future.
 
RedSpring said:
Unless the Steam Deck 2 is releasing 5 years later. You’re not getting a big jump over the Switch 2.
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If SD2 is a 2025 product it will likely be based on Zen 5 with TSMC N3/N4 and RDNA4 GPU. It will have a much faster CPU, the A78 is pretty weak by 2024.
CPU is important for frames and population density.

GPU might be faster in RT if RDNA4 has RT cores. A wait and see.
 
I think we will have 2 or maybe (and this is a big maybe) 3 more generations of flatscreen gaming before it all become apart of mixed reality. Because we’re getting close to how much more entreating and immersive flat screen gaming can be before the inherent lack of interactivity, sense of placement, and existence within the game world that Flat screen gaming provides is the limit. This is controversial but you can still play any game that’s currently played on a flatscreen in mixed reality along with new experiences that aren’t possible without the interactivity and placement that VR/AR/XR provides.
 
Langstonboy said:
I think we will have 2 or maybe (and this is a big maybe) 3 more generations of flatscreen gaming before it all become apart of mixed reality. Because we’re getting close to how much more entreating and immersive flat screen gaming can be before the inherent lack of interactivity, sense of placement, and existence within the game world that Flat screen gaming provides.
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I believe that in regard to VR gaming, Yahtzee Croshaw put it best in his Zero Punctuation of Half Life: Alyx, "[E]very big mainstream success in the last two decades of video games has been about making them more casual or more social, and VR is the antithesis to both." VR has had half a century to establish itself as the "way of the future" and it's never worked out. Why can't people just accept VR as a niche technology for enthusiasts and move on with our lives?
 
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So Tom Henderson said that he expects the full specs of the PS5 Pro to leak this month because dev kits are now being distributed to third parties.

This is a console rumored to be announced in September 2024 and released October/November 2024 - basically a year from now.

Shouldn't third party developers absolutely have a Switch 2 dev kit by this point? If so, shouldn't we be expecting the full specs to leak out any day now?
 
redmutineer75 said:
I believe that in regard to VR gaming, Yahtzee Croshaw put it best in his Zero Punctuation of Half Life: Alyx, "[E]very big mainstream success in the last two decades of video games has been about making them more casual or more social, and VR is the antithesis to both."
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Yeah there are huge unavoidable issues with vr gaming today like accessibility and casual and social issues and these can’t be fixed until you’re able to literally control the mind and we’re still 50 years from that, so thinking on it more, I think flatscreen gaming will still exist but be more like mobile games and smaller games and trough back games with the aaa stuff (or what will be considered aaa in 17 years) being on mixed reality with the flatscreen games being playable there too. But idk I highly doubt that I would be able to predict what computing would look like today in the early 90s pre internet era. I still think there’s a max level of interactivity and entertainment that is available with flat screen gaming.
 
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I feel like VR is filled with a lot of casual and/or multiplayer experiences. Moreso than deep single player experiences, anyway. Mixed reality will be way more social, if some compatible headset(s) actually hit the point where multiple people in a small area will actually own one so games built around multiple local players are more worth developing.
 
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Sol said:
So Tom Henderson said that he expects the full specs of the PS5 Pro to leak this month because dev kits are now being distributed to third parties.

This is a console rumored to be announced in September 2024 and released October/November 2024 - basically a year from now.

Shouldn't third party developers absolutely have a Switch 2 dev kit by this point? If so, shouldn't we be expecting the full specs to leak out any day now?
Click to expand...

Yes, if it’s coming out in that timeframe
 
Sol said:
So Tom Henderson said that he expects the full specs of the PS5 Pro to leak this month because dev kits are now being distributed to third parties.

This is a console rumored to be announced in September 2024 and released October/November 2024 - basically a year from now.

Shouldn't third party developers absolutely have a Switch 2 dev kit by this point? If so, shouldn't we be expecting the full specs to leak out any day now?
Click to expand...
It is a curious thing, my hypothesis is that maybe the devs that have switch 2 devkits want that sweet launch wave sales so they are at their best behavior. Or maybe Nintendo ninjas are less forgiving lol
 
Sol said:
So Tom Henderson said that he expects the full specs of the PS5 Pro to leak this month because dev kits are now being distributed to third parties.

This is a console rumored to be announced in September 2024 and released October/November 2024 - basically a year from now.

Shouldn't third party developers absolutely have a Switch 2 dev kit by this point? If so, shouldn't we be expecting the full specs to leak out any day now?
Click to expand...
I was wondering the same thing from the PS5 Pro leaks this morning. We have in some sense officially known the Switch 2 dev kits were in the hands of key partner studios from the VGC and Eurogamer reports earlier this year. And we still don't know how much RAM we're working with. :/
 
Sol said:
Shouldn't third party developers absolutely have a Switch 2 dev kit by this point? If so, shouldn't we be expecting the full specs to leak out any day now?
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What is there to leak? Clock speeds? T239 is more or less public knowledge by now, while dev kits wouldn't use finalised or production clock speeds or memory configurations.

All this while we seem to already be aware of many things "leaked" from people with development kits, HDR, the effectiveness of DLSS and ray reconstruction, the rumours of 12-16GB of RAM.

To answer the question more exactly, it's already leaked, and leaked back in 2022.

To add to this, "shouldn't we be expecting the full specs to leak" is pretty ridiculous. No, obviously, we should not and should never expect that. Leaks are the exception, not the rule, and "expecting" precise leaks is in the kindest words, deeply unwise.
 
If there aren't more specific leaks of the actual specs of the Switch 2 (particularly clock speeds) before the end of January then that would be very concerning.
 
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Langstonboy said:
I think we will have 2 or maybe (and this is a big maybe) 3 more generations of flatscreen gaming before it all become apart of mixed reality. Because we’re getting close to how much more entreating and immersive flat screen gaming can be before the inherent lack of interactivity, sense of placement, and existence within the game world that Flat screen gaming provides is the limit. This is controversial but you can still play any game that’s currently played on a flatscreen in mixed reality along with new experiences that aren’t possible without the interactivity and placement that VR/AR/XR provides.
Click to expand...

This commercial going to become reality


 
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Good news, Switch 2 bros, the Switch 1's sales this November are heavily down compared to 2022. 20% down in the UK.

(This would not speed up the timeline at all but there was weird concern about the Switch 2 being delayed when there were good hardware sales weeks in Japan)
 
Sol said:
So Tom Henderson said that he expects the full specs of the PS5 Pro to leak this month because dev kits are now being distributed to third parties.

This is a console rumored to be announced in September 2024 and released October/November 2024 - basically a year from now.

Shouldn't third party developers absolutely have a Switch 2 dev kit by this point? If so, shouldn't we be expecting the full specs to leak out any day now?
Click to expand...
technically, leaks aren't something to be expected

but for this case, leaking a new console probably has heavier consequences than an enhanced revision of a current console. so devs are probably more open to talk about it
 
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