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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

I am not certain that's true. I take your point overall, that Nintendo wouldn't go to partners with uncertainty, and that we shouldn't project our uncertainty onto Nintendo. But I am open to the possibility of Nintendo being responsive to partners. And when it comes to the eShop, where there is a large library of existing titles, and where Nintendo certainly has time-limited contracts with large publishers, this would be the situation where those partners have maximum leverage.

I'll grant "waffle" was a poor choice of words, though. BC and a shared eShop removes some control from the publishers, which I'm sure they hate, and large publishers with custom profit sharing deals with Nintendo are almost certainly looking at the end of those contracts. It is easy for me to imagine that those publishers might ask for a larger cut, or threatening to pull titles as a negotiating strategy. Similarly, I can see Nintendo offering - or threatening - to keep old titles only available to Switch 1 customers by default, or requiring enhancement for Switch NG listing.

I can also easily imagine this business-as-usual negotiation resulting in ambiguous or mixed messaging to various partners. Even if I think there is only a 5% chance of this being the case, I don't think that's in "rule it out" territory. Perhaps it's my bias as a technical person, but I find a business driven reason for ambiguity to be more likely than a technical one.
Nintendo is as far from third parties having leverage over them as it's possible to be. Certainly further than the other two console makers, who have both also had BC for generations. But this isn't even really a discussion I want to have. My point here is just that to telephone game a reason for BC "uncertainty" from the crappy and incomplete info we get from third parties with devkits is not going to be a fruitful exercise, and that actually goes doubly so for a business reason. We're the ones who are uncertain. Maybe third parties are uncertain, or maybe the info just sucks. But Nintendo isn't uncertain.
 
Ah ok, to have a "native version" of the game, would that be achievable in theory simply with a downloaded game patch (should the game dev choose to do the work of course)? Or would that require a complete (more involved) rewrite of game code, not something that is really achievable with a downloadable patch?
A patch could replace 100% of a game with something else. Super Mario Odyssey could be patched into Grand Theft Auto IV. From a technical level, anyway--I'm sure turning an E game into an M game would be a mess.
Then what do you mean by this:

By "enhanced" do you mean it just runs at max resolution at all times, has no frame rate drops, and faster loading times? Anything more than that would require a patch, right?

Edit: it sounds like the implication is the games in this tier would be patched to be aware of the translation layer and do things like increase max resolution or increase frame rate cap. If Nintendo is going to patch the game anyway, wouldn't they just take the time to update it to NVN2? Why update a game twice?
Going into that lower level of "enhanced" could be as simple as flipping a setting for a game that indicates "Sure, run me in the fast mode, I won't break." If that's so, it would become trivial for a large number of games to add that very quickly. Thanks to homebrewers we already have an idea of what games can run like when given fewer limits, and a medium "enhanced" mode could basically be an official version of that. A very different proposition from changing APIs and coding in new features. Even a game that planned on doing a bigger patch might go for the simple one first.
 
Oh, you’re totally right, except it would be straight garbage on both accounts because mobile CPUs have had the PS4 beaten for years, and the GPUs are capable of more now, too. I’ll keep saying it until everybody gets their collective Frozen on and lets the PS4 go - When we talk about the PS4, we are actually talking about a decade old system with even older parts, which the industry has moved on from, a very dated architecture, a bottlenecking CPU, no RT, no SSD, and no DLSS/neural unit. This is the same for the Pro variant. Today’s flagship-specced phones have RT, SSD, neural engines, better CPUs than the PS4 - In fact, Apple showed RE4R on their phone last month, while last year, Samsung/AMD’s Exynos 2200 SoC had a RT-capable GPU for the S22 series of phones. My point is that the Switch went with industry-leading chips. The successor will do the same - Why? Because a lesser portable experience than its contemporaries will put Nintendo in a position susceptible to failure. This is why they went with the Matrix Awakens demo, to make a statement to developers, and tell people what kind of support they want, what kind of games they want to secure on their platform… and it isn’t “more XB1/PS4 ports”. RDR2 should be a mere formality; RDR3 should be the aspiration. CP2077 should perform better than the XB1/PS4 versions; the next Witcher title should be the aspiration. There is no sustainable growth strategy for the successor which relies on “more XB1/PS4 ports”, especially when none of their partners are talking about them, when there are no games in their libraries which the Switch doesn’t have AND which could grow their success in meaningful ways, and when even mobile spaces and Indie ambitions haven’t stood still on this. Thankfully, the leaks are very encouraging, and show that Nintendo and Nvidia understand where the successor needs to be - The GPU is better than the XSS’s, and the A78C CPU has plenty going for it. The SoC is more versatile than the PS5/XS’s, and corroborated reports from developers have been overwhelmingly positive. None of that is to say “best case scenario in all cases”, but ultimately, one has to look at what Nintendo and Nvidia have actually done in this space, NOT go by “Because Nintendo” feelings and other shitposts on some vacuous hunch.
Should cut this into a bunch of paragraphs to make for easier reading.
 
A patch could replace 100% of a game with something else. Super Mario Odyssey could be patched into Grand Theft Auto IV. From a technical level, anyway--I'm sure turning an E game into an M game would be a mess.
Sure but that's not what I'm asking though, I think you know what I mean.

I'm referring to having a NG patch update for a Switch 1 game (one where it updates a game originally written to use NVN, to use NVN2 instead).

Would that typically require downloading close to the size of the game itself? Asking because it was said in order for Switch 1 game to be able to use NVN2, "recompilation" is required. That sounds almost like one would have to download a patch roughly equivalent to size of the game itself.

Using Witcher 3 as an example which comes on 32 GB gamecard, if the developer decides to offer NG patch for the game (read: to use NVN2 and potentially use DLSS), would that typically require 32+ GB download because the whole thing is "recompiled"?
 
Sure but that's not what I'm asking though, I think you know what I mean.

I'm referring to having a NG patch update for a Switch 1 game (one where it updates a game originally written to use NVN, to use NVN2 instead).

Would that typically require downloading close to the size of the game itself? Asking because it was said in order for Switch 1 game to be able to use NVN2, "recompilation" is required. That sounds almost like one would have to download a patch roughly equivalent to size of the game itself.

Using Witcher 3 as an example which comes on 32 GB gamecard, if the developer decides to offer NG patch for the game (read: to use NVN2 and potentially use DLSS), would that typically require 32+ GB download because the whole thing is "recompiled"?
Recompilation would mean new game executables, but it could use the existing assets which are what take up much more space: geometry, textures, sounds, videos. Of course, if you leave low res Switch 1 textures, that will limit how much better it will look. Looking at my PC installation of Witcher 3, there's a directory with an .exe file and a bunch of .dll files that's the main sort of thing that would be changed. There are even two such directories, one meant for use with DirectX 12 and one for older versions. Each of these directories contains about 180MB, less than 1% of the total install size.
 
No, patching it to take advantage of native performance requires recompilation.
That's not 100% certain- on Xbox for instance, a line is drawn between games that are compiled for Xbox Series X|S, these are called "Gen9" and/or "Scarlet" in their filenames, and those that are Xbox One games, enhanced on Xbox Series X|S, these are generally referred to as "Gen 9 aware". A similar situation is likely possible on Switch, where some games will get patches sans recompilation that allow the existing program to say, push the resolution higher since it knows there's more juice to squeeze. While those that take full advantage need to completely replace the program file, and be recompiled.
 
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Recompilation would mean new game executables, but it could use the existing assets which are what take up much more space: geometry, textures, sounds, videos. Of course, if you leave low res Switch 1 textures, that will limit how much better it will look. Looking at my PC installation of Witcher 3, there's a directory with an .exe file and a bunch of .dll files that's the main sort of thing that would be changed. There are even two such directories, one meant for use with DirectX 12 and one for older versions. Each of these directories contains about 180MB, less than 1% of the total install size.
Thank you that was more or less the kind of technical answer I was looking for.

Would be interesting to see what happens in practice (assuming NG updates to legacy Switch games is a thing on Switch 2 and one or more devs decides to do that)
 
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All Nintendo home consoles and hanhelds in this century have had backwards compatibility, except the Switch because it was a radical shift and it wasn't possible. All the current competitors in the market have BC. The hardware will be a direct succesor to the Switch, with a similar form factor, using a chip from the same family from the same company.

These are strong reasons to believe that Switch 2 will have BC. But, you know? It doesn't even matter because there is a much more important reason: Nintendo has stated that the next hardware will be BC many times. Sure, not with that wording or with a direct confirmation, but they've been leaving hints one after another since 2015 when explaining their new focus, the NSO, the transition, etc.

So, speculating about the technical and practical aspects of BC is a very interesting discussion. But I don't understand why there are SO many doubts about its existence when there is not a single thing that points in the opposite direction. Maybe someone could make an elaborated argumentation, but what I've seen until now is just pure "because Nintendo" nonsense.
 
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So, speculating about the technical and practical aspects of BC is a very interesting discussion. But I don't understand why there are SO many doubts about its existence when there is not a single thing that points in the opposite direction. Maybe someone could make an elaborated argumentation, but what I've seen until now is just pure "because Nintendo" nonsense.
I think 80% of it comes down to people seeing how much Nintendo gained from rereleasing Wii U games on Switch, and worrying they'll want an excuse to do the exact same thing again.
 
ok we talked about bc but what about forwards compatibility you think Nintendo will still support switch 1 or 2 software on the switch 3
Someone already noted that you're still talking about backwards compatibility here, but I will note that Nintendo actually has done forward compatibility (older hardware playing games meant for newer hardware) before. Well, technically. Some Game Boy Color games can be played on an old-school Game Boy via Dual Mode, such as Pokémon Gold/Silver. Not all GBC games are capable of this, however.

But to answer your intended question, probably. Physical media is the big question at that point, though: will enough people still be buying enough physical games for Nintendo hardware for the company to keep a cartridge slot for one more generation?
 
That's not 100% certain- on Xbox for instance, a line is drawn between games that are compiled for Xbox Series X|S, these are called "Gen9" and/or "Scarlet" in their filenames, and those that are Xbox One games, enhanced on Xbox Series X|S, these are generally referred to as "Gen 9 aware". A similar situation is likely possible on Switch, where some games will get patches sans recompilation that allow the existing program to say, push the resolution higher since it knows there's more juice to squeeze. While those that take full advantage need to completely replace the program file, and be recompiled.
1. Being recompiled doesn't mean it has to completely replace all the files, read the explanation below.

2. By "native performance" I meant running the game natively, which would require recompilation. But yea, there's probably tons of performance overhead while still running on the translation layer.
Recompilation would mean new game executables, but it could use the existing assets which are what take up much more space: geometry, textures, sounds, videos. Of course, if you leave low res Switch 1 textures, that will limit how much better it will look. Looking at my PC installation of Witcher 3, there's a directory with an .exe file and a bunch of .dll files that's the main sort of thing that would be changed. There are even two such directories, one meant for use with DirectX 12 and one for older versions. Each of these directories contains about 180MB, less than 1% of the total install size.
 
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Recompilation would mean new game executables, but it could use the existing assets which are what take up much more space: geometry, textures, sounds, videos. Of course, if you leave low res Switch 1 textures, that will limit how much better it will look. Looking at my PC installation of Witcher 3, there's a directory with an .exe file and a bunch of .dll files that's the main sort of thing that would be changed. There are even two such directories, one meant for use with DirectX 12 and one for older versions. Each of these directories contains about 180MB, less than 1% of the total install size.
This, but also...

The hardware decompression have specific compression formats. For instant loading, the assets will have to be compressed in said formats. If it supports the same formats used on the OG game, great. But if it doesn't, it will require a big download.
 
Edit: it sounds like the implication is the games in this tier would be patched to be aware of the translation layer and do things like increase max resolution or increase frame rate cap. If Nintendo is going to patch the game anyway, wouldn't they just take the time to update it to NVN2? Why update a game twice?
First, for the vast majority of games, Nintendo isn’t the developer so they’re not patching them at all.

There are 12,500+ games in the eShop. The vast majority of these do not have active development teams. Any indie game you see on there was likely ported by the publisher, not the dev, who doesn’t have access to a devkit. I would guesstimate that less than 10% of these games have someone with access to the code and the financial resources to devote to additional development.

Developing an NVN2 version means a new post-processing pipeline, a new shader architecture, a new antialiasing solution, a new 64 bit clean compiler tool chain. Even if the development work is fairly easy, this is a massive bug surface. You’ll need a full QA cycle.

Not to mention that if you want to do an NG update, for at least some games you’ll want to update art assets, rebuild your lighting pipeline to use ray tracing, and change texture and geometry formats to use the compression hardware.

…or you could do this. Replace
C++:
frameCap(30);
resMax("720p");
With
C++:
try {
    //this always fails on NX
    HOS::setBcMode(ENHANCED);
    frameCap(60);
    resMax("1080p");
   
}
catch (Exception ex) {
    frameCap(30);
    resMax("720p");

}

And just rebuild as a Switch 1 app, no fuss, no muss. You only have one version of the code to maintain, it takes a developer 20 minutes to do, and lets you submit a single version of the game to the eShop which will work on both systems.

This is much lower cost, but can result in a spike in sales, without precluding a next gen port coming later.

This is roughly the PS4 Pro strategy, where developers had multiple paths to use the extra power of the hardware without having to rebuild their rendering pipeline for checkerboard 4K. It’s how Sony was able to launch with so many “enhanced” games. If they’d required full rebuilds that list would have been tiny.

Now, it’s possible Nintendo skips this route. But I think customers would be unhappy to get a New Switch that doesn’t run Doom 2016 any better than before. I think devs would be unhappy that they essentially need a full port to take advantage of the hardware, after already investing in expensive, hyper optimized, ultra compromised Switch ports. And I think Nintendo would be unhappy with developers being slow to support the new hardware.

Opening up a low-cost, “boost mode” solution would nicely solve all three of these problems, and cost Nintendo themselves very little to develop.
 
This, but also...

The hardware decompression have specific compression formats. For instant loading, the assets will have to be compressed in said formats. If it supports the same formats used on the OG game, great. But if it doesn't, it will require a big download.
But even with the cpu leap we're talking about here, it would have no problem running decompression on the cpu for a patch of a switch 1 game.

For a next gen game taking advantage of fast streaming tech, the fde would be super handy. But for a patches switch 1 game, 8a78 cores would likely be more than sufficient.
 
I've been thinking about naming, and it may just be the semantic satiation talking, but I'm starting to dislike Switch 2. I still like the iterative naming approach, but something isn't feeling right. I'm thinking that maybe something like Switch NX2 would be better. Also allows it to be shortened to NX2 like the shortening of PlayStation 2 to PS2.
 
This is actually not true for the SNES - it's hardware is an evolution of the NES hardware and it was intended to have backwards compatibility with the NES, but it was cut due to a variety of reasons. Porting NES games to SNES is relatively easy due to this though which is why we got so many of them (including Super Mario All-Stars - the versions included are actually enhanced ports, they're not built from the ground-up, they're based on the same code as the NES games).

But I digress, this isn't relevant to my original point, which has nothing to do with what Nintendo has done in the past and rather what Nintendo have promised investors for the future.
I stand corrected! Though I suppose in the era of the SNES the whole concept of ‘backwards compatibility’ in a console did not really exist, so…
 
I've been thinking about naming, and it may just be the semantic satiation talking, but I'm starting to dislike Switch 2. I still like the iterative naming approach, but something isn't feeling right. I'm thinking that maybe something like Switch NX2 would be better. Also allows it to be shortened to NX2 like the shortening of PlayStation 2 to PS2.

No offense, but "Switch NX2" is the worst name in the history of video game consoles other than maybe WiiU and Xbox One.
 
I've been thinking about naming, and it may just be the semantic satiation talking, but I'm starting to dislike Switch 2. I still like the iterative naming approach, but something isn't feeling right. I'm thinking that maybe something like Switch NX2 would be better. Also allows it to be shortened to NX2 like the shortening of PlayStation 2 to PS2.
Switch and NX sound like two different consoles. Plus what general consumers know what the NX was? People are gonna be confused at what it means, as it sounds like a product for the Switch rather than its own thing. This is a Wii U waiting to happen imo.
 
I've been thinking about naming, and it may just be the semantic satiation talking, but I'm starting to dislike Switch 2. I still like the iterative naming approach, but something isn't feeling right. I'm thinking that maybe something like Switch NX2 would be better. Also allows it to be shortened to NX2 like the shortening of PlayStation 2 to PS2.
Most people would wonder wtf NX1 was. Enthusiast forums are a bubble.
 
Honestly, I think the SNES started it's design with BC in mind with it being a 65c816 to the NES's 6502. Probably diverged from that idea early on.
 
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First, for the vast majority of games, Nintendo isn’t the developer so they’re not patching them at all.

There are 12,500+ games in the eShop. The vast majority of these do not have active development teams. Any indie game you see on there was likely ported by the publisher, not the dev, who doesn’t have access to a devkit. I would guesstimate that less than 10% of these games have someone with access to the code and the financial resources to devote to additional development.

Developing an NVN2 version means a new post-processing pipeline, a new shader architecture, a new antialiasing solution, a new 64 bit clean compiler tool chain. Even if the development work is fairly easy, this is a massive bug surface. You’ll need a full QA cycle.

Not to mention that if you want to do an NG update, for at least some games you’ll want to update art assets, rebuild your lighting pipeline to use ray tracing, and change texture and geometry formats to use the compression hardware.

…or you could do this. Replace
C++:
frameCap(30);
resMax("720p");
With
C++:
try {
    //this always fails on NX
    HOS::setBcMode(ENHANCED);
    frameCap(60);
    resMax("1080p");
 
}
catch (Exception ex) {
    frameCap(30);
    resMax("720p");

}

And just rebuild as a Switch 1 app, no fuss, no muss. You only have one version of the code to maintain, it takes a developer 20 minutes to do, and lets you submit a single version of the game to the eShop which will work on both systems.

This is much lower cost, but can result in a spike in sales, without precluding a next gen port coming later.

This is roughly the PS4 Pro strategy, where developers had multiple paths to use the extra power of the hardware without having to rebuild their rendering pipeline for checkerboard 4K. It’s how Sony was able to launch with so many “enhanced” games. If they’d required full rebuilds that list would have been tiny.

Now, it’s possible Nintendo skips this route. But I think customers would be unhappy to get a New Switch that doesn’t run Doom 2016 any better than before. I think devs would be unhappy that they essentially need a full port to take advantage of the hardware, after already investing in expensive, hyper optimized, ultra compromised Switch ports. And I think Nintendo would be unhappy with developers being slow to support the new hardware.

Opening up a low-cost, “boost mode” solution would nicely solve all three of these problems, and cost Nintendo themselves very little to develop.

Your easy solution here is mostly what I was expecting to begin with. Games would, at the very minimum, run at the very highest dynamic setting available on the Switch 1 release (which would do wonders for games that downgrade themselves a lot in heavy action like Xenoblade 3). A quick change of code to run at higher settings on the Switch 2 would be great, but also you'd have to be mindful of games which don't run so nicely because of physics being tied to FPS at 30fps. For example, in BotW/TotK in emulation, when you uncap the frame rate you get some minor issues such as arrows going wonky.

What I don't know, at least for Nintendo, is how easy it is to go into the game and correct those physics bugs—how much of the physics logic is tied to the frame rate itself. The 4k60 BotW trailer implies they did go through the effort to do so, at the very least.

Regardless of the method chosen behind the scenes, I very much hope that all of Nintendo's evergreen/published titles get upgrade patches. Whether lazily done 'upgrade the resolution, upgrade the AF and AA (or add some AA at all!), and uncap the frame rate' as the bare minimum, or they get the full works with some fancy DLSS/RT or whatever thrown in. I was hoping for the former, so any games that get the latter are merely a bonus.
 
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Sega and Atari's consoles usually had backwards compatibility, but I don't think the term itself existed at that time unless I'm mistaken.
I'm pretty sure it was just standard practice at the time. I don't know this for sure, but I heard that some people were confused about the SNES not being able to play NES games. Take that for what it's worth.
 
Let's flip this on its head.

I 100% believe that Nintendo and Nvidia will work together to produce the best backwards compatability solution out of the big three (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo.)

Firstly because almost every Nintendo handheld has had backwards compatability and the two generations prior to the switch from a home console perspective also had it to the devices detriment. Nintendo has more history with backwards compatability than the other two.

Secondly because Nvidia is providing a level of software support to Nintendo that goes above and beyond what AMD provide. With them providing a lot of the tooling. Nvidia has a reputation for providing better software for their products than AMD for at least a decade. They are the largest GPU company on the planet and are the market leaders for a reason.

Nintendo is an important client to Nvidia, one who has a history of doing everything they can to enable backwards compatability and also to make their legacy software available through NSO or VC. They value their existing software library probably more than any other gaming company on the planet.

Both these companies will put their minds together to provide a solution and I would put money on it being better than even the most positive of us could imagine.
Not only that. Nintendo want to keep selling their switch games for new and returning customers.

Now everyone has bought Zelda Tears, Kirby 3d or even the almost released Mario Wonders.

Do you think it’s easier to remake all these games or just have them already working and ready for sale on day 1? Again, PS5 was the first time ever a gaming company managed to have increased their profits/revenue on a transition period.

Nintendo and everyone is trying to replicate that. And Sony even said that PSN store was responsible for the great transition.
 
Then what do you mean by this:

By "enhanced" do you mean it just runs at max resolution at all times, has no frame rate drops, and faster loading times? Anything more than that would require a patch, right?

Edit: it sounds like the implication is the games in this tier would be patched to be aware of the translation layer and do things like increase max resolution or increase frame rate cap. If Nintendo is going to patch the game anyway, wouldn't they just take the time to update it to NVN2? Why update a game twice?

Because you’re asking this for all games. Nintendo isn’t going to patch all their games. Not to mention that most games are not by Nintendo so Nintendo can’t do anything.
 
Because you’re asking this for all games. Nintendo isn’t going to patch all their games. Not to mention that most games are not by Nintendo so Nintendo can’t do anything.
If I had to take a shot in the dark, it's going to be the most popular or requested games that are going to get the upgrade. Maybe the demanding first/second party titles like Zelda, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem etc. will get the upgrade, but noone is going to ask "Good Job!" to get an upgrade because it just doesn't need it.

That being said, I don't even expect all of the first/second party titles that have issues on the technical side to get upgrades. Why upgrade Pokemon Sw/Sh when Sca/Vi is right there? That sort of thing.
 
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I'm pretty sure it was just standard practice at the time. I don't know this for sure, but I heard that some people were confused about the SNES not being able to play NES games. Take that for what it's worth.
The industry was too new to have much of a standard. Atari 5200 didn't play 2600 games, and was a point against it. Atari 7800 played 2600 games, but not 5200 games. Genesis could play Master System games, if you bought an add-on to do so. 1985 Master System could play games from Sega's 1984 and 1983 machines, but not like many people had them.

tl;dr SNES was kind of in the same position as the Atari 5200: the followup to The Gaming System that upset people by not being able to play the old games. Except it survived.
 
The industry was too new to have much of a standard. Atari 5200 didn't play 2600 games, and was a point against it. Atari 7800 played 2600 games, but not 5200 games. Genesis could play Master System games, if you bought an add-on to do so. 1985 Master System could play games from Sega's 1984 and 1983 machines, but not like many people had them.

tl;dr SNES was kind of in the same position as the Atari 5200: the followup to The Gaming System that upset people by not being able to play the old games. Except it survived.
Minor nitpick (that I wouldn’t mention otherwise till you mentioned Genesis add-on): Atari 5200 also had an add on to play 2600 games. It just came too late and was very poorly marketed.


s-l1600.jpg
 
The industry was too new to have much of a standard. Atari 5200 didn't play 2600 games, and was a point against it. Atari 7800 played 2600 games, but not 5200 games. Genesis could play Master System games, if you bought an add-on to do so. 1985 Master System could play games from Sega's 1984 and 1983 machines, but not like many people had them.

tl;dr SNES was kind of in the same position as the Atari 5200: the followup to The Gaming System that upset people by not being able to play the old games. Except it survived.
Yeah that's a fair point to make. Pretty much everyone was finding out ways to do specific things and how it worked. The "standard" was experimentation.

Thinking about it, it's only really now in the 9th gen where experimentation is kinda phased out overall. The industry was experimenting with all kinds of things prior to the 9th gen but, now that we have a sort of concrete idea of what a console is supposed to do and what hardware should be tackled, console makers have a solid idea on how to be successful without looking like a fool, or at least as much of one.

We're pretty much in what the 70s of film was. We've got a standard and an idea of what a video game and a video game console should look like, we're just now experimenting on how far it goes and working within a box of standards that we now have.
 
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Let's flip this on its head.

I 100% believe that Nintendo and Nvidia will work together to produce the best backwards compatability solution out of the big three (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo.)

Both these companies will put their minds together to provide a solution and I would put money on it being better than even the most positive of us could imagine.
Have we reached the point where people underrate Microsoft's BC efforts on their consoles. From sub 720p games to 1080p, sometimes 4k. From 30 or sub 30 to rock solid 60 and 120 fps. I can pop in my OG Xbox discs (yeah, from 20 years ago) and they'll work on my Series X if they have a BC version. On their store I can buy OG Xbox + 360 + One games. If Nintendo and Nvidia even reach 1/10th of Microsoft's high bar then hell yeah.
 
Feels like this thread is back to talking about nothing for pages on end.

honestly its better to have expectations low so if Nintendo goes above we are pleasantly surprised. Rather than be disappointed if they dont go stronger on power
Is this really how people want to live their life? Pessimism for the sake of avoiding disappointment? How utterly dull. Don't take this personally, as it's meant for the mindset and not for you directly but... are we really so fearful of disappointment as to avoid it at all cost even to the point of believing less amazing things will happen in this world? Not me. Eternal optimist! BC and 4TF if it's not OH WELL IT'S VIDYAGAMZ.

Also Jesus is real.

Minor nitpick (that I wouldn’t mention otherwise till you mentioned Genesis add-on): Atari 5200 also had an add on to play 2600 games. It just came too late and was very poorly marketed.


s-l1600.jpg
Why does this make me think of Cyberpunk 2077?
 
I think 80% of it comes down to people seeing how much Nintendo gained from rereleasing Wii U games on Switch, and worrying they'll want an excuse to do the exact same thing again.
The funny thing is they wouldn’t even need an excuse if they really wanted to do this even if the system had BC. But the WiiU is such an outlier that I’m not sure why people wanna take cues from that on anything Nintendo does years after the WiiU.
 
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I think a vapor chamber would be rad in the device. But I don't think pushing the GPU clock speeds past the bandwidth limit would pay off in much additional performance..

I was hoping that they could maybe have a more significant effect on the RT and tensor cores, further accelerating RT and DLSS, but I'm not sure if that's how it works.
 
random video that popped up in my youtube feed. if the device is gonna be slightly bigger might as well go full SD card and this would solve a lot of problems. it's still on the table

 
Sega and Atari's consoles usually had backwards compatibility, but I don't think the term itself existed at that time unless I'm mistaken.
I'm pretty sure it was just standard practice at the time. I don't know this for sure, but I heard that some people were confused about the SNES not being able to play NES games. Take that for what it's worth.
My awareness of the console space basically begins with the NES era and my childhood understanding was always that new machine = new games, so I have to take everyone’s word for it. I’ve never researched it academically. 😅
 
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I was hoping that they could maybe have a more significant effect on the RT and tensor cores, further accelerating RT and DLSS, but I'm not sure if that's how it works.
Those units are completely independent from clocks for the most part, the quantity and theoretical TOPS performance of each one matters much more.
 
random video that popped up in my youtube feed. if the device is gonna be slightly bigger might as well go full SD card and this would solve a lot of problems. it's still on the table


Now that has me thinking... Because UHS-2 V90 exists in MicroSD already.

We might have found our one, because with adequate compression, the 300MB/s maximum speeds of UHS-2 could scrape 1000MB uncompressed.

This lines up with existing findings points to Game Card continuing to use eMMC, but that can go up to... 300MB/s.

Bringing the minimum speed of formats across expandable, Game Card and internal to 300MB/s raw, targeting a high compression ratio, could be the sweetspot between price and performance Nintendo wants. Plus, it would mean NG Switch games could run without installs.

Interesting. Extremely interesting. Encouraging, even.
 
I'm fairly confident it will have backwards compatibility. Switch games will be able to run on the new Switch.

My concerns are in the implementation.

Will the new Switch have a card reader for Switch games?

If not, will Nintendo provide a means to obtain digital copies for physical game owners?

Will the BC implementation require per-game patches?

If so, will they charge an update fee? Will most patches be available at launch, or will they drip feed them?

Best case scenario is I buy a Switch 2 and I can insert every Switch game cart I own and the games just work (with increased resolution and frame rate where possible).

Worst case scenario is only some digital games are supported at launch, with titles getting patches over time, there's a upgrade fee for each one, and Nintendo charges some fee to convert a physical license into a digital one.

I'm expecting something in-between the two.
well the VGC report, mention cartridge, so is not clear if Switch sucessor is gonna have two cartridge reader a la 3DS or a single cartridge Reader
 
well the VGC report, mention cartridge, so is not clear if Switch sucessor is gonna have two cartridge reader a la 3DS or a single cartridge Reader
two card readers is very messy from a construction PoV. especially when there's already two card readers in the device. making the game card look like SD Express cards with a second row of pins sounds like the best option
 
You are welcome to assume whatever you like. I was using the Socratic "we", I wasn’t declaring my analysis as The One Truth

I see three possibilities:
  • A 5+ TFLOP device, pushing well past the bandwidth limit, but still efficiently capable of upscaling Breath of the Wild with nothing but power
  • A radically overhauled Breath of the Wild engine taking advantage of subtle micro optimizations resulted in a massive performance 66% uplift over the raw power of the 3 TFLOP hardware. Reports saying DLSS was used are inaccurate
  • The hardware feature designed to make 4k60 possible - DLSS - was used to make 4k60 possible. Reports saying it was used are accurate
I find two of these so radically implausible I can’t assume them in a good faith discussion without at least flagging that I believe my own analysis is very unlikely, and purely exploring an Imaginary Story
Fourth option: even a weak Ps4 can run Zelda at 4K 60 fps.

 
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