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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

Starts at $700. No DLSS of course (AMD chip). If we want to theorize on Switch 2 price point.

8.8 inch screen. Looks bulky just based on the guy holding the unit in the image.

I'm in the $399 camp for Switch 2.


I feel it will go from 400-450 on price, as much as needs to be affordable if they are putting so much things ( like the leaks indicate) in this system, i feel they can rise the price without people complaining too much about it
 
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Speaking of DLSS-FG, do we know why there is seemingly OFA stuff referenced?


"So at least as of August, the OFA driver provided would be the same, and seems intended to run on both Orin and Drake."
 
From Nintendo, I expect at least MonolithSoft to mention DLSS in their developer talks about Xenoblade 4, like how they explained temporal upsampling in Xenoblade 3.

Public-facing advertising doesn't need to. Word of mouth will handle it. Most people aren't really aware that 4K = 3840x2160, my mom thought 3D World on Switch was 4K cause it looked sharp and pretty. Nintendo will slam 4K on the Switch 2 box and people will get that "oh it makes better use of my shiny 4K TV". And the people who know what DLSS is will know the Switch 2 has it anyway from articles, developer notes from third party games, Nvidia, etc. Either way they're golden.
“Optimised for 4k HDTV” would be enough info for most people.
 
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Speaking of DLSS-FG, do we know why there is seemingly OFA stuff referenced?


"So at least as of August, the OFA driver provided would be the same, and seems intended to run on both Orin and Drake."

Because all NVIDIA cards over the last several years have OFAs, the 4000 series OFA is just much better.
 
Because all NVIDIA cards over the last several years have OFAs, the 4000 series OFA is just much better.
What is the purpose of OFA here if not for DLSS-FG? I’m talking Drake specifically - because it has been said Drake won’t do frame generation.
 
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If the special thing about the Switch 2 is in the new joycons, maybe a Lite version is impossible :unsure:
A Lite 2 is very possible. Your argument can be used against the regular Lite:
• “If the special thing about the Switch is in the Joycons, maybe a Lite version is impossible”
We could also argue that the docking is another special thing and that a Lite version is impossible.

Nintendo will release a Lite 2. They’ll slowly phase out the Lite 1. They’ll still have it as a cheap entry point to the Switch ecosystem. But two years after the Switch 2 releases, we’ll see a Lite 2.

—————

Re: two SKUs at launch:
• I don’t see it. The Switch did good with two basic SKUs: two color variations. That’s the only SKU difference I can see Nintendo releasing at launch.

What they could do is release a Switch 2 with bigger internal memory two years after the first version’s release, alongside the Lite 2. If any Switch 2 owner is running out of internal memory, they could get a bigger memory one.

…or Nintendo won’t care and just release a Switch 2 with a lot more internal memory is an OLED like revision.
 
I want that day to be here. The day where Nintendo officially announces the Switch 2 and watch all the reactions to it.
Well, once it does this thread closes. So what now. Does Fami have a flood of activity cascade across a dozen threads? A new omnithread? Do we disperse, request deletion, and move on? Do we galvamise, jumping from Hardware Speculation to Release Date Leadup, to Hardware Speculation (Switch 3)?

What happens when this is all over.

And why do I feel, though I preface this with I always do, like that day is rapidly approaching.
 
Could we see Nvidia make a Frame Generation alternative that runs on CUDA Cores/not running on the OFA (like FSR 3 and DLSS 1.9) for this new Nintendo machine? It could provide an even better experience in games, where in portable mode, games reach 1080p120, and in Docked it could go for 1440p120.
FSR3's minimum specs mean it likely does work on NG already. And Nvidia already provides their own technology that also works on older cards (though it does still use the OFA).

"Work" should be placed in quotation marks, however. I doubt there is enough performance in the NG to make either of these solutions work at 100+fps
 
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Well, once it does this thread closes. So what now. Does Fami have a flood of activity cascade across a dozen threads? A new omnithread? Do we disperse, request deletion, and move on? Do we galvamise, jumping from Hardware Speculation to Release Date Leadup, to Hardware Speculation (Switch 3)?

What happens when this is all over.

And why do I feel, though I preface this with I always do, like that day is rapidly approaching.
Hopefully won’t be closed right away? Considering we likely won’t know everything about specs even once announced, revealed, etc. like the process node used.
 
Well, once it does this thread closes. So what now. Does Fami have a flood of activity cascade across a dozen threads? A new omnithread? Do we disperse, request deletion, and move on? Do we galvamise, jumping from Hardware Speculation to Release Date Leadup, to Hardware Speculation (Switch 3)?

What happens when this is all over.

And why do I feel, though I preface this with I always do, like that day is rapidly approaching.
I feel like it wont be closed before tech insights does a teardown.
 
I'm still in the Calcio getting revealed camp before we get a Switch 2. :ninja:
I'm convinced that a Nintendo Switch exists that is planned to release that is not Nintendo Switch 2. While once I strongly expected Calcio, now I'm sort of torn.

Basically, I see the Switch family going one of three ways:

NG Switch, OLED, Lite, all on store shelves together, until the NG Lite releases.

NG Switch, Lite, Calcio, OLED dropped to push people to NG Switch, OLED removed as an option and "hybrid" gaming relegated to their most expensive offering.

NG Switch, Switch V3, Lite. - The OLED Model is retired, and the V2 is replaced by the V3, a refined V2 that uses an OLED-like shell with an LCD screen, and shares a dock with NG Switch. Designed to share as many of the structural parts as possible with next gen, and being so cheap it removes the market need for Calcio.

I cannot imagine a future where the V2 survives the generational transition, nor one where Nintendo openly markets 4 devices at once.
 
the only AI I'm interested in is DLSS ai upscaling
And interactive stories and NPCs powered by AI.
That's the oldest gamer dream of mine, I want to experience that in my lifetime.

It is maybe too much computation for a Switch 2, but I wonder if Nintendo could be able to build a game around AI this gen.
Like Nintendogs 2 or something. It could be more marketable than DLSS to present their new hardware capabilities.
 
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I would think this topic would stay up after the switch 2 is announced for some time. Of course a new topic for everything Switch 2 related will be opened.
 
Could we see Nvidia make a Frame Generation alternative that runs on CUDA Cores/not running on the OFA (like FSR 3 and DLSS 1.9) for this new Nintendo machine? It could provide an even better experience in games, where in portable mode, games reach 1080p120, and in Docked it could go for 1440p120.

I have no idea if Nvidia could cook up frame generation that can work on the standard CUDA cores outside of the 40 series ... I know there are a lot of theories floating around that Nvidia forced the feature onto 40 series only cards as a sales tactic, but that could be false.

That said, you know even a modest frame generation implementation could help the Switch 2 quite a bit.

I'm not even talking like these huge 30-40 FPS gains ... if you could get even say a very modest 10 fps gain for Switch 2, that would be very welcome.

40 fps in many/most games makes a sizable difference over even 30 fps.

If you could get 10-15 fps boost for Switch 2 games, I'd take that right now and run. Maybe Nintendo can come up with some thing customized looking at FSR3.
 
Calcio is a codename inside the Switch firmware for a Switch model with no screen, battery, or cartridge slot (iirc). Basically a reverse Lite.
sounds like a dev kit. IIRC it's also been there since launch.

It's the source of people expecting a Switch HOME.
 
Yeah. But ALL of it?
Thraktor has answered this better than I ever could.
One point brought up regarding the inclusion of a camera is the fact that the T239 has removed hardware that T234 (Orin) uses to interface with cameras, specifically the NVCSI, VI & ISP blocks. However, reading up on the specifications of these blocks, it seems more likely they were removed due to being complete overkill for any possible camera application on the new Switch, rather than saying anything about the likelihood of the new Switch actually having a camera.

To explain, CSI is a standard interface for cameras, used in things like smartphones and cars. It's part of the MIPI set of standards, and supports two different physical interfaces, D-PHY, which allows long cable lengths but relatively low speeds, and C-PHY, which offers higher speeds but shorter cable lengths. Nvidia supports CSI 2.1 on Orin, and because it's designed for self-driving cars, it needs to handle a lot of data from a lot of cameras (and also needs to support many different types of camera). The NVCSI, VI and ISP blocks work together to get the image data from those cameras and make them available to software.

The NVCSI block specifically handles the actual interface with the cameras, and it takes the data in packets through either a D-PHY or C-PHY interface, decodes them, and sends the pixel data along to the two VI blocks. VI here stands for Video Input, and each of these takes the pixel data from the NVCSI block, converts the format into one which is useable by software, and puts it memory. The ISP, which stands for Image Signal Processor, isn't well documented, but it appears to work alongside the VI blocks performing things like format conversion.

All together, these blocks support a lot of functionality, and an enormous amount of bandwidth. The figures depend a lot on the formats used and so forth, but at a peak, the NVCSI, VI and ISP blocks can process over 160 Gb/s of camera data. As a point of comparison, the highest camera bandwidth I could reasonably see a new Switch requiring would be from a pair of 1080p/60Hz cameras at 12bpp. That comes to around 1.5 Gb/s of data. At the lower end of expectations, a single 720p/30Hz camera at 8bpp would come to around 0.2 Gb/s. The camera hardware on Orin isn't just overkill for a new Switch, it's absurd overkill. Even if Nintendo really go to town on AR, they'd struggle to use 1% of the capabilities of the hardware.

Now, I would have said that perhaps Nintendo could use a customised, scaled down version of the NVCSI, VI and ISP blocks, but I don't know how viable that would be given the difference in performance and functionality requirements. After all, Nintendo wouldn't need the flexibility of Orin's hardware, which needs to support almost every camera module available. Nintendo would only need to support the specific feature set of whatever camera module they use, which could lead to a much simpler interface. If Nintendo did require camera connectivity as part of T239, then my guess is that they would go with a completely separate, small fixed function interface, perhaps just licensing the IP for it, rather than having Nvidia design something in-house.

This doesn't necessarily mean that T239 does have camera interface hardware on it, but I'm not convinced that the lack of blocks like NVCSI is evidence that it doesn't, as they would never have been suitable for a device like the Switch in any case.
 
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Calcio is a codename inside the Switch firmware for a Switch model with no screen, battery, or cartridge slot (iirc). Basically a reverse Lite.
I could see a business case for Switch model with no screen or battery (thus eliminating the need for dock). No portability.

But I don't understand the part about not having cartridge slot? Why?
 
I could see a business case for Switch model with no screen or battery (thus eliminating the need for dock). No portability.

But I don't understand the part about not having cartridge slot? Why?
Cause Nintendo has higher margins on digital sales compared to retail. Which is also the main motivation of Sony and MS to move away from physical.
 
I could see a business case for Switch model with no screen or battery (thus eliminating the need for dock). No portability.

But I don't understand the part about not having cartridge slot? Why?
2 reasons:
1) Calcio is never released, so it doesn’t matter.
2) Both major competitors either already have digital-only versions of their consoles (PS5 DE, Series S) or are working on them (PS5 with a detachable disc drive, 2024 Series X refresh) because it pushes consumers to only buy digitally where buying used (aka cheaper) isn’t an option. Also this is the same company that gleefully removed Wi-Fi from the Wii mini back in 2012.
 
Most beautiful handheld PC so far
This one look good, no cringy gamer aesthetics.
Yeah, this one looks good except for the glossy buttons and the joy sticks. They look cheap.

Also it’s huge:
ffxPtdnbtzNyxXaB4EMUBm-1920-80.jpg.webp

Wtf 💀

I really can’t see Nintendo doing an 8-inch screen. It’s just too big. I feel like these manufacturers really don’t get what the Switch is. I don’t know.
 
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I could see a business case for Switch model with no screen or battery (thus eliminating the need for dock). No portability.

But I don't understand the part about not having cartridge slot? Why?

I assume Calcio is just for testing purposes, but as for how the product could work, it could resemble the Shield TV or Shield TV stick which already use Mariko. A tiny box essentially tethered to the TV. Nintendo gets higher margins on digital, and there's less expectation of getting up to swap cartridges for a non-portable device.

sddefault.jpg
Q5sTHn6iYwdL2rcGbrxmgS.jpg


I imagine if this ever came to fruition, it would be the cheapest model of the Switch.
 
2) Both major competitors either already have digital-only versions of their consoles (PS5 DE, Series S) or are working on them (PS5 with a detachable disc drive, 2024 Series X refresh) because it pushes consumers to only buy digitally where buying used (aka cheaper) isn’t an option. Also this is the same company that gleefully removed Wi-Fi from the Wii mini back in 2012.
Ah I see, thanks.
I assume Calcio is just for testing purposes, but as for how the product could work, it could resemble the Shield TV or Shield TV stick which already use Mariko. A tiny box essentially tethered to the TV. Nintendo gets higher margins on digital, and there's less expectation of getting up to swap cartridges for a non-portable device.

sddefault.jpg
Q5sTHn6iYwdL2rcGbrxmgS.jpg


I imagine if this ever came to fruition, it would be the cheapest model of the Switch.
For sure. Screen, dock, battery removed lowers the cost per unit significantly, more so with cartridge slot removed.

I play docked 99% of the times and would probably happily have bought this hypothetical model, except the removal of cartridge slot is giving me pause although most of my 110 games are digital anyway, I still have several physical games.
 
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Yeah, this one looks good except for the glossy buttons and the joy sticks. They look cheap.

Also it’s huge:
ffxPtdnbtzNyxXaB4EMUBm-1920-80.jpg.webp

wtf 💀

I really can’t see Nintendo doing an 8-inch screen. It’s just too big.
You probably know this already but Lenovo is 8.8 inch. I think 7.81 (or 7.91) was mentioned for Switch 2. So nearly 1 inch smaller than what the image shows.
 
I could see Switch 2 coming in 2 SKUs if they made the upper one really hard not to pick. Thus pushing the majority of the orders to that one but still having the lower one for the part of the market that don't care but wants one on the cheap.

Something like:
$399, Switch 2, 64 GB
$499, Switch 2, 512 GB, some kind of more premium materials used on the Joy Cons or something to set it apart more, maybe even a pack in game (something like 1 2 Switch or Nintendo Land)

And then in a couple years or so they double up both options to 128 GB and 1 TB and market that like a big upgrade it isn't. Maybe another new premium style added to the upper one and a pack in game for sure this time, maybe even one of the launch titles.

Something like the $399 model at-cost for Nintendo while the $499 model making them a little profit.
 
I could see Switch 2 coming in 2 SKUs if they made the upper one really hard not to pick. Thus pushing the majority of the orders to that one but still having the lower one for the part of the market that don't care but wants one on the cheap.

Something like:
$399, Switch 2, 64 GB
$499, Switch 2, 512 GB, some kind of more premium materials used on the Joy Cons or something to set it apart more

And then in a year or so they double up both options to 128 GB and 1 TB and market that like a big upgrade it isn't. Maybe another new premium style added to the upper one.

Something like the $399 model at-cost for Nintendo while the $499 model making them a little profit.
Last time this happened it was Wii U.

They don't want a Wii 2U
 
Oh this thread is definitely going to reach 2K pages before the Switch 2 reveal. I'm sure of it
 
Last time this happened it was Wii U.

They don't want a Wii 2U
That isn't what killed the Wii U and you know it.

Ignore my speculation and focus on this, because this is what I think is very possible they go for:
$399 model at-cost for Nintendo (or even small loss)
$499 model making them a small profit


What they do to achieve that is anyones guess. But having a model hit under 400 bucks for Nintendo is probably a priority, but we know this thing might be expensive.. so this would be a way to check both boxes, get it out there at a price point they think is necessary but also walk away with profit instead of losses.
 
That isn't what killed the Wii U and you know it.

Yeah pretty much, on the list of things that hurt the Wii U this would be pretty far down the list. You could say the Switch itself was going to be a failure because its hardware concept really isn't that different from the Wii U to begin with.
 
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And interactive stories and NPCs powered by AI.
That's the oldest gamer dream of mine, I want to experience that in my lifetime.

It is maybe too much computation for a Switch 2, but I wonder if Nintendo could be able to build a game around AI this gen.
Like Nintendogs 2 or something. It could be more marketable than DLSS to present their new hardware capabilities.
some mods for Skyrim does this. as well as Nvidia's own demo. but I think the caveats make it a bit unwieldy.

 
Picture this:
Switch 2 with 64GB cost Nintendo ~$415 per unit...
(this of course is anyones guess as to what exact components they are using, but say they want to/have to go this high to hit the level they think they need to hit.)

So what do they do? Put it out at $449 and have one SKU? Bleh. Also they actually want to put in more storage cause they like that pure profit from digital sales... but throwing a bigger drive in there only raises the package price... say +$30 bucks to hit 512 GB.. So ~$445... now again they could put it out there at-cost at $449 a unit... but that again feels bad, I think they will think they really need to hit that $399 price point.

And thus:
Reg Switch 2, 64GB, $399 (Nintendo loses ~$16 per unit)
Ultra Switch 2, 512GB, $499 with Nintworld Pack-in (Nintendo makes ~$64 per unit)

Bet you the ultra would sell more too, but even if it sold at half the rate, Nintendo would come out ahead on profit.
 
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so FF7R aside, what could Square port to NG Switch be it an old game or a new game?

I'm personally thinking of a native version KH1-3, Nier Replicant, FF14 (yes, serious here) & Stranger of Paradise complete edition

No idea if those are actually happening or not, or whether or not they're likely but i think those would a good step if Square wants to port something there (for the record i'm aware Nate & Necro said 7R isn't happening right now, but no idea if they know some other stuff (minus DQ) is happening there)
 
I wonder if the previously revealed solid state fan is still to expensive for Nintendo.

The current version of this is a scam. No sane OEM will use it.
Speaking of DLSS-FG, do we know why there is seemingly OFA stuff referenced?


"So at least as of August, the OFA driver provided would be the same, and seems intended to run on both Orin and Drake."
Ever since Turing generation, Nvidia GPUs have included an OFA. It's useful for CUDA stuff like object and tracking detection, depth estimation, etc.
Lovelace/RTX 4000 just supercharged the OFA and made it useful for games.
 
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