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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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eye0h said:


DeepL

Leak Express: Nintendo already has a prototype in testing for "VR" glasses.

  • Switch 2 standalone hardware
  • Mixed reality
  • Home use, not for theme parks
  • MicroLED display
  • Surprisingly Google is involved in some way in development

I've stayed away from VR for so long. If nintendo makes something it's getting copped instantly lolololol
Click to expand...

I wouldn't rule out Nintendo prototyping an AR device somewhere. VR is too isolating, but AR is very user-friendly. It fits Nintendo well.

More specifically, the Apple's approach is perfect for Nintendo.
They can create a device that lets you play your Switch 1&2 games on a large virtual screen (perhaps with stereoscopic 3D, hello 3DS games) and some experimental AR apps like Nintendo Labo without committing too much.

But if they create an AR device, they need a strong partnership with a major company that has some expertise in this field.
Google has reportedly killed it's AR project recently. Knowing those guys, there could be interesting and ready-to-use technology that are left on a shelf.

A bit a weird rumor, but not as far-fetched as it seems. At least, that's food for thought.
 
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Hermii said:
They might assist devs with ongoing UE4 projects planning to release on Drake. Or porting UE4 projects to Drake.
Click to expand...
probably, but I don't expect Drake to be "officially supported" by UE4. I figure most devs who might have UE4 games are capable of doing the ports themselves if they're willing to spare the engineer for the project. indies might have problems though. like A Hat in Time needing someone with expertise since UE3 wasn't supported by Switch
 
quelseydilla said:
He also said "my friend has super old video games, he even has a Wii", and when I showed him Wonder he said "it's like 3D World in 2D!" and I feel so old right now.
Click to expand...
Now reminded of a YouTube video that ended up on my feed the other day. I'm an Australopithecus, apparently.



But yeah, kids and their rumors. I know an elementary schooler who says that he heard the PS6 is coming out soon. Not sure about his sources, but he's a good lad, so I believe it.

More on topic, I'm still not sure about Nintendo and VR. It feels like they're more likely to experiment further with AR than anything else.
 
syrozz said:
I wouldn't rule out Nintendo prototyping an AR device somewhere. VR is too isolating, but AR is very user-friendly. It fits Nintendo well.

More specifically, the Apple's approach is perfect for Nintendo.
They can create a device that lets you play your Switch 1&2 games on a large virtual screen (perhaps with stereoscopic 3D, hello 3DS games) and some experimental AR apps like Nintendo Labo without committing too much.

But if they create an AR device, they need a strong partnership with a major company that has some expertise in this field.
Google has reportedly killed it's AR project recently. Knowing those guys, there could be interesting and ready-to-use technology that are left on a shelf.

A bit a weird rumor, but not as far-fetched as it seems. At least, that's food for thought.
Click to expand...
while not far fetched, anyone claiming to know would obviously be lying since prototypes and test cases pretty much never make it out of nintendo. the only way we know about some of these things is through criminal activity
 
I honestly believe that Nintendo will use VR (and perhaps, to a lesser extent, AR) as a peripheral, just like Labo VR. I wouldn't expect something cutting edge, like PSVR, but I could see them doing something interesting with the concept.

Unlike touch screens and motion controls, the concept of VR is inherently too niche to take off like the latter two without working out several kinks and even then, it may very well still seen as a non-integral companion piece to whatever device you own.
 
OctoSplattack said:
Now reminded of a YouTube video that ended up on my feed the other day. I'm an Australopithecus, apparently.

Click to expand...

7PGh7Dr.png
 
syrozz said:
I wouldn't rule out Nintendo prototyping an AR device somewhere. VR is too isolating, but AR is very user-friendly. It fits Nintendo well.

More specifically, the Apple's approach is perfect for Nintendo.
They can create a device that lets you play your Switch 1&2 games on a large virtual screen (perhaps with stereoscopic 3D, hello 3DS games) and some experimental AR apps like Nintendo Labo without committing too much.

But if they create an AR device, they need a strong partnership with a major company that has some expertise in this field.
Google has reportedly killed it's AR project recently. Knowing those guys, there could be interesting and ready-to-use technology that are left on a shelf.

A bit a weird rumor, but not as far-fetched as it seems. At least, that's food for thought.
Click to expand...
Going with VR. I’m okay with this. I probably won’t get into it much but might give it a try depending on price and how it’s implemented.
 
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woodhead said:
Why is it a Nintendo problem if Netflix doesn’t want to port their app to switch? Youtube and Twitch are on the eShop so it is clearly an issue on Netflix‘ side
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Netflix was willing to add the service to Nintendo Switch, is Nintendo itself that preventing the service to come to the console, basically Nintendo excuse to now allow Netflix on the console, is because they want Switch to be a game console, focus mostly on games
 
Giancarlo said:
Netflix was willing to add the service to Nintendo Switch, is Nintendo itself that preventing the service to come to the console, basically Nintendo excuse to now allow Netflix on the console, is because they want Switch to be a game console, focus mostly on games
Click to expand...
Then why are other services on Switch?
 
Giancarlo said:
Netflix was willing to add the service to Nintendo Switch, is Nintendo itself that preventing the service to come to the console, basically Nintendo excuse to now allow Netflix on the console, is because they want Switch to be a game console, focus mostly on games
Click to expand...
Hulu is already on the switch. I doubt nintendo outright blocked Netflix from coming to switch, much more likely that Neflix was demanding a licensing fee to have Netflix playable on switch and nintendo didnt want to pay it.
 
Sorry if a bit out of topic, but I'm curious what you guys think about this:

John from DF:
Eh, I wouldn't put that label on what I do. I'm not out here investigating things and I don't want to. What I can say, because it was on DF Direct, is that I've personally spoken with three devs that implemented DLSS pre-release and had to remove it due to sponsorship.
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I wonder if this will have any implications for Drake ports of games that are sponsored by AMD...?
 
yohoopzcrazy said:
Sorry if a bit out of topic, but I'm curious what you guys think about this:

John from DF:

I wonder if this will have any implications for Drake ports of games that are sponsored by AMD...?
Click to expand...

AMD woudnt sponsor Nintendo ports?

I suppose the Nintendo version would have DLSS, and pc wouldn'tx

Or if fsr works well enough on Drake, perhaps they woudnt bother.
 
oldpuck said:
This is one of the (few) cases where the generation really matters. Bandwidth is not an issue relative to last gen consoles. In the years since, GPUs have radically changed their rasterization strategy, and it's not just that they use less memory bandwidth, but they use it differently. You can't really compare them.

The short version is that Xbox One/PS4 GPUs, were either rasterizing, or using memory bandwidth, but never both at the same time. Each stage in the pipeline has to do all of it's work for the entire 1080p frame, then pass on a buffer to the next stage. So for the memory bus, it's idle, then it's needs to be screamingly fast, then it's idle again.

Modern GPUs slice the screen up into 16x16 pixel tiles, and push each of those through the pipeline independently of each other. Because the bus is constantly in use, it can be slower and still move the same amount of data - or significantly more, in fact.

It doesn't stop there, either - an uncompressed 1080p image is like 6MB. A 16x16px tile is less than a KB. That's very cache friendly. Under ideal conditions, a single SM can cache a tile, and run it through the entire rasterization process without ever going to main memory. So not only is the bus in constant use, you're not having to move as much data in the first place.

In general, I think GPU generations are overrated - there really aren't major overhauls of how rasterization works every 2 years. But the last big one was tiled rendering in hardware, and it came right after the last gen consoles released. So in the case of memory bandwidth, it really is apples and oranges.
Click to expand...
yeah, the main reason bandwidth becomes important again in the modern day is when tile based rendering isn't used, or when a GPU doesn't have enough cache to fit the tiles for the image without stalling/having to go to memory.

Thankfully, T239 (should) have more cache per mm^2 than any of the next gen consoles, and def more Cache/HW Component.
  • T239
    • CPU:
      • Up to 1MB L1, 4MBs L2, and 8MB L3 (Shared with GPU)
    • GPU:
      • ??? L0, 1.5MB L1, 1MB L2, and 8MB L3 (Shared with CPU)
    • And assuming NVIDIA is following best practices for an ARM SoC, a System-Level Cache. The size of which can be assumed at a minimum of 4MB like Orin.
    • So, the GPU has a total of 14.5MB of Cache accessible in that scenario, the Allocation of the 8MB L3 likely changing depending on if a scene is heavily CPU or GPU bound, or if it can work in a balanced state.
  • Series S
    • CPU (Guessing based on the 4800S and Renoir SoCs of similar spec):
      • 512kb L1 split in 2 for Instruction/Data, 4MB L2, 8MB L3.
    • GPU (Extrapolating from the RDNA2 Architecture Guide):
      • 320KB L0, 512KB L1 (Assuming 4 Shader Arrays), 2MB L2
    • So, the GPU only has its own cache to work with and lacks an L3 or SysLC to draw from. So, it's stuck with its 2.53MB of Cache, and the CPU is missing half a meg of L1 before you get to the lack of SysLC.
  • PS5
    • CPU (Guessing mainly looking at the 4700S as the PS5's CPU looks more similar to Desktop Z2 but un-chipleted than the 4800S which is just Renoir. Although it likely isn't too dissimilar);
      • 256KB L0, 512KB L1, 4MB L2, 8MB L3
    • GPU:
      • GPU: 648KB L0, 1MB L1, 2MB L2
 
TomNookYankees said:
Hulu is already on the switch. I doubt nintendo outright blocked Netflix from coming to switch, much more likely that Neflix was demanding a licensing fee to have Netflix playable on switch and nintendo didnt want to pay it.
Click to expand...
I remember reading years ago that something about the security that Netflix's app uses is incompatible with Switch, and that the workaround would be allowing Netflix to run in the Switch's browser which would create a potential exploitable path for hackers. Hearsay and all, but it might not just be a licensing issue holding it back.
 
ILikeFeet said:
while not far fetched, anyone claiming to know would obviously be lying since prototypes and test cases pretty much never make it out of nintendo. the only way we know about some of these things is through criminal activity
Click to expand...

Unless the info came from the Google side. Not that I believe or really care,...but a prototype in testing? I picture Nintendo's R&D space as like Wonka's. And I think anything like that wouldn't be released until a few years after Switch 2, like they did with Mario Kart Live (or part of/main feature of whatever comes after after Switch 2) . It won't be the "gimmick" for Switch 2.
 
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chocolate_supra said:
I remember reading years ago that something about the security that Netflix's app uses is incompatible with Switch, and that the workaround would be allowing Netflix to run in the Switch's browser which would create a potential exploitable path for hackers. Hearsay and all, but it might not just be a licensing issue holding it back.
Click to expand...
netflixhax would've been a glorious era omg. i'd buy a second switch 2 if I knew for a fact the launch units would be exploitable
 
Thraktor said:
I'm talking about non-tensor FP16 operations. On Ampere, the tensor cores in an SM can perform tensor operations (or matrix multiply accumulate operations, if we want to be more specific) at FP16 precision at 1024 ops per SM per clock without sparsity, or 2048 ops per clock with sparsity. If it's performing standard non-tensor FP16 operations, though, then they're operating at 256 ops per SM per clock, which is the same as the FP32 rate of Ampere SMs. As the discussion was about making use of FP16 precision for standard shader code, the 256 ops per clock is the more relevant performance measure.
Click to expand...
But I mean, are we talking about using tensor cores for non-tensor FP16 operations, where it's limited to that 256 ops per SM per clock? That's what I was wondering, even if I was going about that question in a weird way earlier, and not fully understanding the connection.
 
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chocolate_supra said:
I remember reading years ago that something about the security that Netflix's app uses is incompatible with Switch, and that the workaround would be allowing Netflix to run in the Switch's browser which would create a potential exploitable path for hackers. Hearsay and all, but it might not just be a licensing issue holding it back.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t that just HDCP support that was enabled when Hulu launched in late 2017
 
yohoopzcrazy said:
Sorry if a bit out of topic, but I'm curious what you guys think about this:

John from DF:

I wonder if this will have any implications for Drake ports of games that are sponsored by AMD...?
Click to expand...

Some context from John Linneman:

This tweet is not about Starfield. I deleted it because I was annoyed with people misreading it. We talked about this on DF Direct WEEKS ago. This is 100% not about Starfield. I have zero insight into that game.
F5H1OrKWYAANDPJ
Click to expand...
 
There being Netflix apps on the Wii U and 3DS but not on Switch, which has Hulu, Crunchyroll, Funimation, etc. is a little perplexing to me. Could licensing fees be so costly, or the tech so different, to have one and not the other? Maybe.
With Switch 2 supporting 4K output, the absence of certain media apps would be a missed opportunity for them to add '4K media streaming' as an easy marketing bullet point and differentiator from the current Switch. Though they could do it anyway even if it was just Hulu and YouTube.
 
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ezidro3 said:
Wasn’t that just HDCP support that was enabled when Hulu launched in late 2017
Click to expand...
I don't think so, since afaik that has more to do with how the media is transmitted over HDMI and this was 1. more to do with the app itself and 2. talked about after Hulu had already come to Switch.

It was a conversation I remember reading on Reddit I think, never saw any articles about it or anything so I'm having a hard time finding it now. But from what I remember there's something about the way the modern Netflix app is programmed that has some issues with Switch. I forget when it was but there was some big changeover in the way they built the app sometime between WiiU and Switch that just doesn't work with Switch. They'd have to either totally rebuild a bespoke version for Switch or run it in the Switch's browser, was the talk. And someone suggested the argument between Netflix and Nintendo was about who should pay for the building of the bespoke version.

Again, I'm trying hard to remember because obviously it was just hearsay from years back, but I remember it sounding plausible when they started talking about the guts of Netflix's app. 🤷‍♂️
 
chocolate_supra said:
I don't think so, since afaik that has more to do with how the media is transmitted over HDMI and this was 1. more to do with the app itself and 2. talked about after Hulu had already come to Switch.

It was a conversation I remember reading on Reddit I think, never saw any articles about it or anything so I'm having a hard time finding it now. But from what I remember there's something about the way the modern Netflix app is programmed that has some issues with Switch. I forget when it was but there was some big changeover in the way they built the app sometime between WiiU and Switch that just doesn't work with Switch. They'd have to either totally rebuild a bespoke version for Switch or run it in the Switch's browser, was the talk. And someone suggested the argument between Netflix and Nintendo was about who should pay for the building of the bespoke version.

Again, I'm trying hard to remember because obviously it was just hearsay from years back, but I remember it sounding plausible when they started talking about the guts of Netflix's app. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Weird. Isn’t YouTube’s Switch app basically just a webapp that leads to youtube.com/tv? I don’t see why Netflix couldn’t take the same approach, but whatever.
 
Semi Lazy Gamer said:
Real insiders wait until one of the big folks bring out the goods before they help confirm.
Click to expand...
NGL, unless you've got hard proof for your leak, it's usually best to keep quiet and wait before another guy says something that lines up with what you know. The problem is that it turns leaking into a one gigantic game of "Who shoots first?"

I feel like there's a large difference between leakers and insiders. Leakers are the folks who pick up on information and repeat it as a sort-of middleman, while insiders actually have inside knowledge and usually keep it to themselves until leakers decide to drop their buckets of info. More often than not, it's the insiders that manage to deconfirm leaks (like we're seeing with the Hero leak) as they're usually more trustworthy and can say "Yeah that ain't it chief".

Granted, I've only leaked two things so far in my experience as """leaker""" so I'd hardly call myself an expert in this sort of thing. My general thought process is just "don't post it until you're very confident that it's real".
 
SoldierDelta said:
NGL, unless you've got hard proof for your leak, it's usually best to keep quiet and wait before another guy says something that lines up with what you know. The problem is that it turns leaking into a one gigantic game of "Who shoots first?"

I feel like there's a large difference between leakers and insiders. Leakers are the folks who pick up on information and repeat it as a sort-of middleman, while insiders actually have inside knowledge and usually keep it to themselves until leakers decide to drop their buckets of info. More often than not, it's the insiders that manage to deconfirm leaks (like we're seeing with the Hero leak) as they're usually more trustworthy and can say "Yeah that ain't it chief".

Granted, I've only leaked two things so far in my experience as """leaker""" so I'd hardly call myself an expert in this sort of thing. My general thought process is just "don't post it until you're very confident that it's real".
Click to expand...
Listen to this man
 
eye0h said:


DeepL

Leak Express: Nintendo already has a prototype in testing for "VR" glasses.

  • Switch 2 standalone hardware
  • Mixed reality
  • Home use, not for theme parks
  • MicroLED display
  • Surprisingly Google is involved in some way in development

I've stayed away from VR for so long. If nintendo makes something it's getting copped instantly lolololol
Click to expand...
Once again, the "Nintendo has to adopt this thing I saw Apple doing lately" virus has infected the rumor mill.
 
ShadowFox08 said:
SD runs Starfield at 30 fps?
Click to expand...
I just tried it last night for the first time. It defaults to setting everything to Low, and uses FSR2 at 50% so it's only initially rendering 640x400 each frame. But with all that I was getting mostly 25-40fps depending on the area.
Shish said:
one question: speaking of drake, would he be able to get 1080p 60fps most of the time without dlss?
when docked
Click to expand...
Impossible to make a blanket statement like that when games vary so greatly.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
I just tried it last night for the first time. It defaults to setting everything to Low, and uses FSR2 at 50% so it's only initially rendering 640x400 each frame. But with all that I was getting mostly 25-40fps depending on the area.
Click to expand...
It's worth pointing out that 25-40fps on Steam Deck is pretty much the status quo. Hitman 3 runs at 40fps at the settings i bought it at, and works pretty well imo.
Still somehow runs better than Xenoblade Chronicles 1 Definitive Edition on Switch against all odds.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
I just tried it last night for the first time. It defaults to setting everything to Low, and uses FSR2 at 50% so it's only initially rendering 640x400 each frame. But with all that I was getting mostly 25-40fps depending on the area.
Click to expand...
Starfield is asking a lot from the CPU, hence why more core tablets are running the game better. I think Drake could run the game in theory, but MS would have to allow for a port

Giancarlo said:
maybe because Netflix demand a licensing fee for the service to come to the console and Nintendo refuse to pay this
Click to expand...
well that's Netflix's problem. not Nintendo's
 
D36 said:
I honestly believe that Nintendo will use VR (and perhaps, to a lesser extent, AR) as a peripheral, just like Labo VR. I wouldn't expect something cutting edge, like PSVR, but I could see them doing something interesting with the concept.

Unlike touch screens and motion controls, the concept of VR is inherently too niche to take off like the latter two without working out several kinks and even then, it may very well still seen as a non-integral companion piece to whatever device you own.
Click to expand...

Yeah. A Labo VR 2.0 is all I think we'll see. Anything beyond that such as PSVR isn’t even in the cards for Nintendo right now Imo. It’s far too bulky, too expensive, and VR right now just looks like it’s still in the experimental stages; as no one really knows how to make it mainstream yet. It is still very niche in the market.

I'd still like to try a VR headset, but I currently don’t see how it'll make my gaming experience “t3h M3gat0n!”
 
Giancarlo said:
Netflix was willing to add the service to Nintendo Switch, is Nintendo itself that preventing the service to come to the console, basically Nintendo excuse to now allow Netflix on the console, is because they want Switch to be a game console, focus mostly on games
Click to expand...
If Netflix was willing, there'd be an app by now. That was primarily a pre-launch thing.
 
So its Monday here in Australia and what a week it was last week.

New Week

New Leaks!!!

I wonder what we are in for this week! hahaha
 
My honest two cents on Virtual Reality and Augment Reality:

Nintendo has never been like Sony and Microsoft in the sense that their goal is to release a video game box capable of the most high-end graphics and performance possible.

I mention this because, in my mind, Nintendo will say: look, we have a winning form factor of home and handheld experiences all in one, plus a stelar lineup of first party software. We’ve peaked in terms of the graphical output we need to deliver the experiences we want.

I think that the Switch 3 might be the console Nintendo uses to deliver AR and VR related experiences. And by that time, they’ve more than already finished Nintendo World, and they’ll release some software related to that. A Nintendo World game with AR and VR gameplay
 
VR tech as a whole feels like it’s still trying to find an identity. It also seems to be have challenges breaking past the enthusiasts/ early adopter crowd with costs and hardware limitations (many high end headsets require wired connections, still heavy, etc.) as the biggest barriers

If they do something related, AR feels like the more interesting play for Nintendo currently given the technology accessibility. They also have a few partners with experience in the field with the Mario Kart Live devs and Niantic, although the latter likely wouldn’t move away from the phone market/ capabilities
 
Tall Leprechaun said:
VR tech as a whole feels like it’s still trying to find an identity. It also seems to be have challenges breaking past the enthusiasts/ early adopter crowd with costs and hardware limitations (many high end headsets require wired connections, still heavy, etc.) as the biggest barriers

If they do something related, AR feels like the more interesting play for Nintendo currently given the technology accessibility. They also have a few partners with experience in the field with the Mario Kart Live devs and Niantic, although the latter likely wouldn’t move away from the phone market/ capabilities
Click to expand...
Niantic is heavily in denial about how much the appeal of their games is the AR part. The AR features of Pokémon Go are mostly a nuisance, tbh.
 
ziggyrivers said:
My honest two cents on Virtual Reality and Augment Reality:

Nintendo has never been like Sony and Microsoft in the sense that their goal is to release a video game box capable of the most high-end graphics and performance possible.

I mention this because, in my mind, Nintendo will say: look, we have a winning form factor of home and handheld experiences all in one, plus a stelar lineup of first party software. We’ve peaked in terms of the graphical output we need to deliver the experiences we want.

I think that the Switch 3 might be the console Nintendo uses to deliver AR and VR related experiences. And by that time, they’ve more than already finished Nintendo World, and they’ll release some software related to that. A Nintendo World game with AR and VR gameplay
Click to expand...
Depending on how technology evolves, Switch 3 might just have a focus on getting raytracing (and potentially pathtracing) performant for 3rd party, considering PS6 will be already out by the time we get to see it. Paired with VR and a modest power jump to get Switch 3 remotely close to it, that's about the next gen we're going to get.
 
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