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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

Dealing with the hardware being different is probably going to be an "if they want" to sort of thing, especially for quick and dirty enhancement patches. It is highly probable that a "next gen aware" BC mode will be offered, similar to the others.

The point is about how hard it will be to do since cross-gen games will be probably competing against next-gen exclusive Switch 2 games from EPD.

Metroid Prime 4 and Metroid 6 will probably have to do a ton of work to not look ultra outdated compared to a next-gen exclusive Mario Kart game as Metroid Prime 4 was developed for much weaker hardware (This is less of a concern if Prime 4 releases before the Switch 2, but not a lot if Prime 4 is released after Switch 2 exclusive EPD games are shown and look much better than it).
 
I thought the LCD was actually quite good?



The title says Vs. 3DS but she seems really pleased with the display in general.

Nintendo initially used Japan Display for the Nintendo Switch before switching to Innolux.

And Erica Griffin uploaded a video shortly after Nintendo released the Nintendo Switch (2019) talking about the LCD display lottery.


I still think there is a large chance the sharp rumor is Nintendo, and it will have some kind of non off the shelf sharp/ innolux panel.

In which case, they would all be from the same company.
There still can be LCD display variations from the same manufacturer, as shown on Erica Griffin's video above.
 
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
Regarding BC, I'm just going based on the recent PS5 cycle, which iirc the rumors on BC were pretty murky into 2020. With Nintendo tending to be even more close to the vest on what they share or don't share with developers, and at what stages they do so, my thought was that the window would be even smaller in terms of when they would know for sure, and depending on what Nintendo's solution is.

I do agree that devs need time though, but I definitely have no clue what amount of time is "correct".
 
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For years I haven’t really participated in this discussion because I’ve been so content with Switch and its software output that I’ve barely thought about its successor, but I’ll admit that these leaks and this community is starting to get me excited 🎉
 
i'm convinced the screen is going to be a 1080p custom mLED built specifically for Nintendo by Sharp.
I've mentioned this before, but I don't expect Nintendo to use a mini LED display.

TrendForce noticed that Apple has been slowing down the adoption of mini LED for Macbooks and iPads due to the high costs of using mini LED vs OLED. And I imagine other companies are going to follow Apple's lead and slow down adoption of mini LED as a result.

If Apple's not planning on using mini LED displays for iPads, then I don't see Nintendo using mini LED displays for Nintendo's new console.
 
Same for thorowing.
My top used are: the light flower, big light flower...

oh my god i've wasted so many arrows
giphy.gif

though it was very satisfyingly watching them fly through the darkness to light up an area far away
 
7ubrqg.jpg

Kidding, kidding.


I get that there are some concerns with Backcompat, but I think most of the worries have been well overblown well beyond what was assumed.

The backwards compatibility problems are ones with solutions, and they are solutions that been given more than enough time to figure out.
 
I will gladly sacrifice every cent of the OLED for this thing to be as powerful as it can be while meeting Nintendo's expectations of not selling at a loss.

Just release an OLED model down the line Ninty :).
 
Knowing about BC has zero impact on game development for the next platform. Why would developers know about it?

It would strongly influence development prioritization. For example, some publishers (if there was no BC) would try to make Switch 2 enhanced versions of their Switch 1 games that they could sell again at full price.
 
It would strongly influence development prioritization. For example, some publishers (if there was no BC) would try to make Switch 2 enhanced versions of their Switch 1 games that they could sell again at full price.
Those decisions would be taken at the management level, Im sure upper management at major publishers are aware. But not the men and women in the trenches.
 
Those decisions would be taken at the management level, Im sure upper management at major publishers are aware. But not the men and women in the trenches.

But the people in the trenches would then be able to infer what was happening if they were told to make an updated Switch 1 port for Switch 2.

(also, the complaining about not being able to re-sell the same games very much sounds like an exec, lol)
 
oh my god i've wasted so many arrows
giphy.gif

though it was very satisfyingly watching them fly through the darkness to light up an area far away
oh yeah, honestly it was also easier to shoot them with arrows, and after a while i just did that again. There are so many arrows in this game, after the initial period i was never under 150.

And currently on my second run (no link upgrade, no glider, just items and armor), and honestly, im at 400 arrows and NOW the enemies start to be a challenge. Kinda changes the game playing without a glider. (and without a map... and more hearts...)

For everybody that wants a master mode, theres a take =P
 
But the people in the trenches would then be able to infer what was happening if they were told to make an updated Switch 1 port for Switch 2.

(also, the complaining about not being able to re-sell the same games very much sounds like an exec, lol)
Wouldn't be definite proof either way. If they were told to make an updated port/ patch for a switch game that could happen wether it was BC or not.
 
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Edit: Forgot about the gimmick talk!
The new gimmick!

Trying to predict the new gimmick is a fools errand. Nintendo is so unpredictable and unique it's damn near impossible. They don't rely on new tech, they rely on what tech makes their new idea possible. I have read that people believe Switch 2 will be mostly tech upgrade because there aren't many new innovations lol. That shows a blanant miss understanding of anything this company does. Nintendo doesn't look for new innovations, they think of new ideas and figureout how to bring them to life. Wii Sports is the idea but it needed a controller with gyrometers. Nintendo took ir cameras and utilized them to bring cardboard creations to life. This company is quite unpredictable simply don't follow fads. The WiiU gamepad wasn't Nintendo following a trend of tablets lol, it was Nintendo coming up with the idea of asymetric gameplay and knowing they need to put a screen somewhere else to make having different prespective in gaming possible. Nintendoland was the idea with its minigames showing different prespective/views in gameplay. Whatever the new gimmick is, is whatever idea Nintendo comes up with that they like and want to bring to life.

Everything else in your post makes sense, but this added paragraph doesn't.

Seems like you have it backwards when it comes the gimmicks. Nintendo picks their gimmicks based on which new tech can be implemented at a low enoigh cost. Wii Sports didn't inspire the IR, in fact it's one of the first party games on the Wii that uses the IR camera the least. The IR camera clearly was thought up first, nintendo knew that their implementation of an IR camera would require accelerometers to work properly (so that it can use gravity's acceleration to figure out which direction is up with only two infrared light reference points) and decided to also use the accelerometers for waggle gesture and tilt based controls as well. And then when gyro-meters were cheap enough they started selling the Wii Motion + attachment (and later wiimotes with WM+ built in) that added the gyrometers for a more roughly complete motion control package. Original Wiimotes did not even have Gyrometers, only Accelerometers.

Gimmicks the switch has (touchscreen, IR camera, HD rumble) are all things that were inexpensive enough to impliment. Nintendo is probably going to pick stuff that wont drive up the price of the console too much. Which leaves the following options:
  • Full-Color Camera(s): A cheap enough full color camera would not be difficult at all for nintendo to get, there's numerous benefits that full color cameras can be used for as shown by both the WiiU and 3DS, and the Orin SoC that Drake is based off of already has features specialized for use with cameras
  • Smartphone connectivity and improved wireless connectivity in general: If nintendo decides they want to implement secondary screens again, the cheapest way to do that would be through use of connectivity with smartphones (through an app obv.) in order to stream to a second screen. Could even make a similar app to be used with the Switch 1. Main barrier right now is that there would need to be an upgrade to the range/implimentation of the wifi antenna(s) compared to the Switch 1. Smartphone connectivity features are also clearly something on nintendo's mind as evidenced by certain patents
  • Microphone: Similar logic as full color cameras. Very cheap, has very obvious benefits, (especially in conjunction with full color cameras), and also would be necessary if they want to start releasing NIntendo DS NSO since many Nintendo DS games require use of the microphone.
  • Scroll Wheel Buttons: Everyone keeps mentioning this so I'll list it as well, though personally I think the big problem is that making them actual scroll wheels would take up too much space internally (because you would have to fit whole scroll wheels inside) so touchpad shoulder buttons seem much more likely
 
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I don't want to make Nintendo sound cynical but

I have to say something because this is the latest of dozens of times I've seen the word "cynical" misused in this exact way on this forum.

Cynical means "believing people are motivated by self-interest".

In this case, you probably meant

I don't want to sound cynical but

For some reason, people keep using "cynical" to mean acting out of self-interest, when it actually means believing that others act out of self-interest.
 
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Monkey's paw: The Switch 2 will be backwards compatible with Switch games...

...But only for NSO subscribers!

Imagine the outrage!
 
I thought the LCD was actually quite good?



The title says Vs. 3DS but she seems really pleased with the display in general.

It depends. At launch they were using three different displays, two from JDI (LAM and LPM models) and one from Innolux. The difference between the JDI displays is likely that LAM is a-si and LPM is LTPS.
At some point early in the Switch's lifecycle JDI ditched Nintendo and not long after Nintendo started using displays from AUO.
IMO, innolux is garbage, JDI LAM is better, JDI LPM is the best. Can't speak for the AUO displays since I've never seen one.
(I will note my JDI LAM unit is an engineering sample)
 
Monkey's paw: The Switch 2 will be backwards compatible with Switch games...

...But only for NSO subscribers!

Imagine the outrage!
There might be outrage but so many people in this day and age are such giant consumers that they would be fine with it. I was arguing with someone on why physical games should still be a thing and they said my point about wanting to replay them is stupid because they know Nintendo will resell the game on the next console and that everyone will rebuy it and it's a sad reality
And have Nintendo shareholders freak out
I'm sure they would but Nintendo made plenty of money with joycons because people were too lazy to send them in so thousands of people just bought new ones. (I know this will not happen though because that's not how businesses work or think)
 
The point is about how hard it will be to do since cross-gen games will be probably competing against next-gen exclusive Switch 2 games from EPD.

Metroid Prime 4 and Metroid 6 will probably have to do a ton of work to not look ultra outdated compared to a next-gen exclusive Mario Kart game as Metroid Prime 4 was developed for much weaker hardware (This is less of a concern if Prime 4 releases before the Switch 2, but not a lot if Prime 4 is released after Switch 2 exclusive EPD games are shown and look much better than it).
Metroid Prime 4 will only have better assest, resolution on Switch sucessor, nothing to worry about, MP4 will be a more impressive Metroid Prime Remastered on Switch and it sucessor in term of techinal/graphical fidelity/powe
 
Metroid Prime 4 will only have better assest, resolution on Switch sucessor, nothing to worry about, MP4 will be a more impressive Metroid Prime Remastered on Switch and it sucessor in term of techinal/graphical fidelity/powe

... Okay? I mean, Prime 4 is going to have to sell in large part based on its visuals and while Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 (games released near the end of the PS4 that were graphics-driven) look clearly better than most early PS5 games, an EPD Switch 2 exclusive could badly outshine Prime 4.
 
I don't think Nintendo has to be even slightly concerned with the PS5 Pro, it will sell just because the PS5 is very popular, but it doesn't sound even slightly appealing and won't overshadow the Switch 2 at all.
The PS5 Pro will be positioned as a novelty enthusiast device. Sony will make more base PS5s then it. So people comparing that to the Switch 2 are doing both consoles unfairly since they are for different interests.

Maybe short term for early adopters their might be some cross alignment but long-term there won't be since the Switch 2 will be the next standard Nintendo console and the PS5 Pro will be some extended console variant for enthusiast will less models made then the standard variant,
 
I saw someone make an interesting comparison on twitter, but if it does have BC and Nintendo is able to make a smooth transition, this potentially could be like going from the PS1 to the PS2 in terms of sales.
 
... Okay? I mean, Prime 4 is going to have to sell in large part based on its visuals and while Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 (games released near the end of the PS4 that were graphics-driven) look clearly better than most early PS5 games, an EPD Switch 2 exclusive could badly outshine Prime 4.
theres no even a single teaser for a Switch sucessor or Metroid Prime 4, to basis or not, if Metroid Prime 4 is gonna be more impressive for example the next 3D Mario, Legend of Zelda and so on, until we see a trailer for a Switch sucessor game or Metroid Prime 4, we cant state, oh Metroid Prime 4 will be more impressive then Mario Kart 10/11.
 
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Here's a question for the tech-heads from someone who is primarily concerned with this thing's capabilities as a home console box.

My understanding is that Drake has been "taped out" and awaiting production for ages - over a year (if I recall correctly). So if Switch 2 with Drake releases in late 2024, will developing Drake when they did have been a mistake? Will the SoC be out of date versus what they could have done had they waited a year or two? Or has mobile / Tegra / whatever tech not progressed that much in the interim?

I've just read a lot about Drake probably being slightly weaker than a Steam Deck, and while I know that a locked-in console dev environment will offer all kinds of gains and advantages it still seems lame to be getting that a full two and a half years after the deck's original release in Feb 2022. (Which is what prompts the question)
 
If Nintendo ever made an official statement rebuking something that was posted on famiboards, I would consider it a badge of honour.
If you don’t remember that whole fiasco. Let’s not repeat that same mistake of assuming that just because the components are cheap that Nintendo isn’t gonna price these things in a way that will earn them positive margins.
 
@Aether
I'm losing stamina here, so just a few points,

It isn't an imagined problem, or maybe I just go into that menu more often. The other day I loaded up Tears for the first time in ages and I needed to produce a Korok frond. If you sort by type, you have to scroll way past the monster parts, if I remember correctly. And they're quite useful situationally, but too situational to be that high in most used. Similarly, I'd frequently run out of keese eyeballs and try to find various elemental aerocuda ones instead, so all the eyeballs are kind of, in a mess far from the left if I sort by most-used. They're not together. They probably are if they sort by type, but the monster parts are very far to the right then. Maybe it's just a play style thing, I dunno. I also have, like, almost twice the hours you have, so maybe I have that much more stuff. I assure you, I didn't make the issue up, the reason I used Tears of the Kingdom as an example is BECAUSE I had a particularly frustrating play session with it recently.

Precision depends on the size of the icons, sure, but between 4-4.5 is still big enough to have a good number of icons that are somewhat easily tappable. This screen size is still far larger than the DS. The current Tears of the Kingdom inventory has 5 items per row, which would give each item a maximum of 1.8cm of horizontal screen space on the second screen assuming a 4:3 aspect ratio, far more than the 1cm typically recommended for touch UI elements, almost twice the size of the icons on my phone home screen (I measured, lol), and way larger than the touch zone for a keyboard character on a smartphone's virtual keyboard. What you need to factor is this is a specific-purpose screen that doesn't require extraneous chrome or fluff, the necessary elements can contextually take full advantage of the real estate. And one reason they can scale intelligently is because that real estate is a guaranteed set size, density and ratio. You would lose some of that advantage if you just get people to use their smartphones, with their various screen sizes, OS UI and display densities (and generally I think they're too big for this purpose anyway). In that scenario, the experience is no longer uniform.

All my problems are indeed late game problems because that's where I've been for the past hundred hours lol. But still feel all games would benefit, at any point, I've very often imagined interfaces that could be streamlined with touch elements, or gameplay scenarios that would benefit from parallelism. I'm very much a "two monitor" advocate for work. I remember playing the Pikmin 3 Deluxe challenges, which require you to have really tight control over your teammates and know where they are and what they're doing and to keep them productive, know when a set of Pikmin have completed their assigned task and returned to base, and I really wished I had a second scree- Then I found out that's how it worked on the Wii U.

Finally, I think the Switch shares charge with the joycons, which can come into play if you use them detached than re-attach. It's not a big deal, honestly, but the joycon thing is just an example. Yes, we're gaining a screen, but we're losing the necessity of having an 1 extra radio, 1 extra rumble motor, 1 extra battery, one extra accelerometer, one extra gyroscope and one seperate PCB and housing to put it all together. A screen is still more expensive in both power and cost (probably), but my point is that we're not going from a very simple and elegant solution to a complex one, the joycons are already complex, way more complex than a regular controller, and the Switch in its hybrid nature is more complex than a static console. The question is how much utility does the complexity bring?
 
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Just thinking about how:

  • VGC article specifically states that Switch NG will use cartridges
  • But it also says Devs are uncertain if there will be BC

Which means that whichever sources VGC is using must already know what the medium for Switch NG will be. And that points to the possibility that, regardless of whether or not nintendo manages software BC, the new cart slot can't take the old carts.
There's also the possibility that the slot will only play games off of old carts, but newer games may require installation (full or partial) to faster internal storage depending on the needs of the game.

Remember that carts are a significant sales cost and the margins are better on downloaded games. I'm happy to pay more for downloaded games given that I find them much more convenient.
 
We removed 2023 vs 2024 from the loop, but that will soon be replaced by 2024 vs 2025 :sneaky:
Early 2024 (Arguing Nintendo's tendency to not have products in full production for too long in order to avoid factory leaks)
VS
Late 2024 (Fully believing the article and that Nintendo would let a product stay in full production for around/over a year)
VS
2025 (People who think Modern Nintendo, the guys putting a GPU way bigger than anyone expected in this thing, would really be fine letting a SoC with 2022 (arguable best) tech come out in 2025 running a 5-year-old Architecture on CPU and GPU)
 
There's also the possibility that the slot will only play games off of old carts, but newer games may require installation (full or partial) to faster internal storage depending on the needs of the game.

Remember that carts are a significant sales cost and the margins are better on downloaded games. I'm happy to pay more for downloaded games given that I find them much more convenient.
All I know is that backwards combability is a must, I know Furukawa mentioned that they want a smooth transition between the switch and it's successor with the use of Nintendo Account Online. It would be a shamed that if I can't play all the digital games I purchased on my switch on the NG Switch...it's been a big weakness since the Wii to Wii U days which was a pain when they made you rebuy your VC console games (at a discounted price if you transfer your wii data) just to play them on the Wii U.
 
If you don’t remember that whole fiasco. Let’s not repeat that same mistake of assuming that just because the components are cheap that Nintendo isn’t gonna price these things in a way that will earn them positive margins.
Well here's Nintendo's carefully worded response to what Mochizuki had claimed...
Yes hindsight is 20/20 and we now know that the OLED has a partial metal frame, so that definitely would increase the build price.
We still don't know how much the OLED displays run Nintendo but it would be a downgrade them going back to LCD.

 
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