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Spoiler The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Spoiler Thread

Kind of wild that Link is pretty much the only character to face Ganondorf that did not have a secret stone, he’s… just that good. You’d think one of the sages, seeing Link is already 95% of their overall fighting strength, would be like “actually, you take it.”
 
WestEgg said:
Kind of wild that Link is pretty much the only character to face Ganondorf that did not have a secret stone, he’s… just that good. You’d think one of the sages, seeing Link is already 95% of their overall fighting strength, would be like “actually, you take it.”
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He got hydrated
 
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I think TOTK does basically everything that BOTW does but better. That said, I definitely prefer the way BOTW handled some things. For instance I think the story is “better” in TOTK but BOTW had a bigger emotional impact on me.
 
I just beat that side adventure on the great plateau and I got a heart container as a reward. I'm shocked, that is so friggin awesome (the quest itself was really fun too).
 
Does anyone have a solid theory for how Calamity Ganon and Demon King Ganondorf are connected? I know the game says the Calamity loosened the seal on Ganondorf, but I believe Ganon and Ganondorf have been more directly connected in past Zelda games. BOTW says that Calamity Ganon once held the form of a Gerudo, so my personal head canon is that Calamity Ganon was something of a leak of Ganondorf's power. However, that would suggest that 1. Ganondorf is the more powerful, true form (which I think is not how it usually works?) and 2. Zelda had to use all of that sacred power she had just to seal a shadow of Ganondorf's energy. So...I'm not sold on my explanation.
 
kirbyfan407 said:
Does anyone have a solid theory for how Calamity Ganon and Demon King Ganondorf are connected? I know the game says the Calamity loosened the seal on Ganondorf, but I believe Ganon and Ganondorf have been more directly connected in past Zelda games. BOTW says that Calamity Ganon once held the form of a Gerudo, so my personal head canon is that Calamity Ganon was something of a leak of Ganondorf's power. However, that would suggest that 1. Ganondorf is the more powerful, true form (which I think is not how it usually works?) and 2. Zelda had to use all of that sacred power she had just to seal a shadow of Ganondorf's energy. So...I'm not sold on my explanation.
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Calamity Ganon is clearly Ganondorf’s Heartless and by killing it in BOTW you brought back Ganondorf.

Real answer, Calamity Ganon is what the text says it is. Basically Ganondorf’s malice that built up over hundreds of years becoming sentient while his body was still stuck down below unable to act.
 
xghost777 said:
Calamity Ganon is clearly Ganondorf’s Heartless and by killing it in BOTW you brought back Ganondorf.

Real answer, Calamity Ganon is what the text says it is. Basically Ganondorf’s malice that built up over hundreds of years becoming sentient while his body was still stuck down below unable to act.
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Oh, is that said somewhere in the game? I was looking for basically that exact explanation but don't remember finding it.
 
kirbyfan407 said:
Oh, is that said somewhere in the game? I was looking for basically that exact explanation but don't remember finding it.
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You have to go back to BOTW’s explanation on Calamity Ganon as Zelda TK mainly just shows the body with energy slowly leaking out of it. If you are looking for it more spelled out in Zelda TK itself, I believe the closest you get are some implications.
 
xghost777 said:
You have to go back to BOTW’s explanation on Calamity Ganon as Zelda TK mainly just shows the body with energy slowly leaking out of it. If you are looking for it more spelled out in Zelda TK itself, I believe the closest you get are some implications.
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Ah, thank you! I didn't think to look back at BOTW for answers.
 
kirbyfan407 said:
Does anyone have a solid theory for how Calamity Ganon and Demon King Ganondorf are connected? I know the game says the Calamity loosened the seal on Ganondorf, but I believe Ganon and Ganondorf have been more directly connected in past Zelda games. BOTW says that Calamity Ganon once held the form of a Gerudo, so my personal head canon is that Calamity Ganon was something of a leak of Ganondorf's power. However, that would suggest that 1. Ganondorf is the more powerful, true form (which I think is not how it usually works?) and 2. Zelda had to use all of that sacred power she had just to seal a shadow of Ganondorf's energy. So...I'm not sold on my explanation.
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If you get all the memories, go talk to Impa in the forgotten temple, and then go talk to her in Kakariko she straight up said says the Calamity is a result of Ganondorf’s hatred

———

Also, just beat the game. Phenomenal ending.

Is that… an actual credits theme I hear?! It definitely follows the same format of BotW with playing all the champions themes but I can’t tell if it’s unique arrangements or not
 
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I just rewatch the last cutscene and it's and orgy of leitmotivs lol i love it, I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.
But... Why is Sheik's theme there?.
It has to meant something or it's so out of place.
The other quote of the theme that i can remember is Impa's farwell in Skyward Sword.
 
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The BotW/TotK-style emerging trope of “main quest you get at the beginning of the game is marked complete at the very end over a blank screen” is still amazing
 
Phendrift said:
The BotW/TotK-style emerging trope of “main quest you get at the beginning of the game is marked complete at the very end over a blank screen” is still amazing
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luigi-you-can-now-play.gif
 
Just talked to Impa again and the direct quote for those who are curious is

“It’s a part of our history which much never be forgotten- the Calamity.

The Calamity was the Demon King of ancient times, brought back to existence in the form of hatred manifest.

Some of our youths believe the Calamity to be mere legend. You and I know better, of course.”

And then she talks about what the mural depicts with the Champions and Divine beasts and how Symin is teaching the kids in Hateno about it (there’s a sidequest where you take a picture of the Calamity tapestry for Symin to show as “proof” to the kids lol, then you can sit in on the lesson where he recaps all of BotW)
 
(Sorry for the double post, but didn’t wanna keep editing lol)

I think the most interesting thing to be gleaned from the connection Impa mentions is that Ganondorf himself is the source the demon Ganon, not the other way around as depicted in past games.

Because that implies that IF we stay with this Link and Zelda, the next threat we face will not be any form of Ganon because all of that died with Ganondorf in this universe.

Only way it would be different is if they went even further back and established some Demise analog as the source of Ganondorf, which in turn is the source of Ganon. Even if it exactly Demise, I feel it would be some new interpretation of him in this universe, if only to be friendly to new players who got into the series with BotW/TotK and don’t know SS.

And I do think there’s room for that because Ganondorf in TotK didn’t really get that much established on his actual nature - if he was just a normal (albeit powerful) dude and the secret stone made him the demon king, or if there’s some Triforce-analog that made him always destined to be that, which would imply something along the lines of Demise.

But I really do get the overall vibe that all things Ganon died with Dorf in this game.
 
WestEgg said:
I took a lot of gloom damage trying to climb up the dragon’s neck and over its horns because I missed the weak points initially and thought I had to attack its face. Once I got there and attacking it’s eyes did nothing I figured it out, but I could see some losing there if they didn’t pack gloom healing stuff. Guessing you would restart the whole ordeal since the last auto save is before starting the fights.
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The strangest thing is that the eye wells are the spots where it's safe to stand but are also the brightest gloom looking so it's confusing visual design.

xaszatm said:
The next game will be an Ace Attorney Spin-off where Link will have to be tried for his various Korok-related crimes.
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Wouldn't work. Link is guilty so Phoenix would never take the case.

LegendHero said:
I find it's easier to enjoy each game on it's own merits instead of wishing it chased the same impression as a previous one.
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Yes. This game goes for a different vibe than its predecessor. It is bustling and packed in contrast to the lonely, contemplative vibe. It is a big part of why I prefer BOTW, but I still think it's better this game go for the different.

Phendrift said:
I agree with the general complaint that the memories would’ve benefitted even more than BotW’s from being forced to be in order

But I really do think that they got way more out of the memory structure with TOTK. The way the end result of the memories loops back into a full circle moment with the present day story is just way, way better than how BotW did it. It just feels way more relevant to what Link is doing in the present, thanks to present day Zelda being there, while doubling as background lore at the same time

Honestly the entire setup of how you could go about getting the master sword just works. Even just stumbling upon it, with no knowledge of why or how it’s there, is still an extremely gorgeous and epic sequence. While the added context just brings so much of the game’s story together all at that pivotal moment. It’s an instant all-time gaming moment, right up there with the sheik Zelda reveal imo.
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It does connect more to Link's task in that by finding out the conclusion (if you hadn't already figured it out) it informs him of what he needs to do next and adds the emotional element that comes with understanding what the light dragon is. On the other hand BOTW has the edge on giving the discovery of each memory more relevance to Link's personal story. In BOTW, Link was recovering his memories. It was part of his journey to rediscover, rebuild and redeem himself that is the core of the story. Before the memories, he is preparing to face Ganon because he was told to. After the memories, he is doing it to see Zelda again. The experience of finding the memories has restored him.

With TOTK, before the memories, he wants to find Zelda. After the memories, he still wants to find her, but now knows what happened to her. It's not quite the arc. Add to that, the memories are a particularly roundabout way of learning that. Honestly, the makers of the map would have been far more helpful to instead make a tablet saying, "Zelda turned into a dragon and has the master sword" rather than sending him across the kingdom to fetch the world's most inconvenient YouTube links that mostly don't even contain information that is all that important to Link outside of the conclusion.
 
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I wanted to take more screenshots so I booted up Zelda and did all of the stuff I had wanted to do but forgot including the Lookout Landing Tunnel network, defeating a Frox, and clearing the Tarrey Town quests. I ended up building a cool house I’ll never use lol. Was fun to pop in, but feeling good to put this game down until DLC hopefully rolls along.
 
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Re: dungeons and sequelitis - it would've been real nice if the dungeons weren't in the same regions as in BotW, with the same themes. A big reason why this game doesn't really feel like it's own thing to me. Having a dungeon in Faron (sorta) and what resulted after that was fantastic, and one of the few times when I felt like I was really playing a new Zelda game.

Still kinda hoping the DLC gives this game more of it's own identity, but not counting on it. TotK definitely has more meat on it's bones which makes it a better flowing game than BotW, but as it stands now I don't think it'll crack my Zelda top 3 for leaning so hard on it's predecessor.
 
Phendrift said:
If you get all the memories, go talk to Impa in the forgotten temple, and then go talk to her in Kakariko she straight up said says the Calamity is a result of Ganondorf’s hatred

———

Also, just beat the game. Phenomenal ending.

Is that… an actual credits theme I hear?! It definitely follows the same format of BotW with playing all the champions themes but I can’t tell if it’s unique arrangements or not
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I have all the memories, but oddly, I couldn't find Impa in Kakariko like I expected when I looked for her after the main quest. Maybe she's waiting for me in the Forgotten Temple and I accidentally never found her there. I'll look for her again. Thanks!

EDIT: Just found Impa waiting for me in the Forgotten Temple and then found her in Kakariko, which gave me the dialogue you quoted below. This was exactly the piece of the narrative puzzle I was looking for. Thank you!

Phendrift said:
Just talked to Impa again and the direct quote for those who are curious is

“It’s a part of our history which much never be forgotten- the Calamity.

The Calamity was the Demon King of ancient times, brought back to existence in the form of hatred manifest.

Some of our youths believe the Calamity to be mere legend. You and I know better, of course.”

And then she talks about what the mural depicts with the Champions and Divine beasts and how Symin is teaching the kids in Hateno about it (there’s a sidequest where you take a picture of the Calamity tapestry for Symin to show as “proof” to the kids lol, then you can sit in on the lesson where he recaps all of BotW)
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Phendrift said:
(Sorry for the double post, but didn’t wanna keep editing lol)

I think the most interesting thing to be gleaned from the connection Impa mentions is that Ganondorf himself is the source the demon Ganon, not the other way around as depicted in past games.

Because that implies that IF we stay with this Link and Zelda, the next threat we face will not be any form of Ganon because all of that died with Ganondorf in this universe.

Only way it would be different is if they went even further back and established some Demise analog as the source of Ganondorf, which in turn is the source of Ganon. Even if it exactly Demise, I feel it would be some new interpretation of him in this universe, if only to be friendly to new players who got into the series with BotW/TotK and don’t know SS.

And I do think there’s room for that because Ganondorf in TotK didn’t really get that much established on his actual nature - if he was just a normal (albeit powerful) dude and the secret stone made him the demon king, or if there’s some Triforce-analog that made him always destined to be that, which would imply something along the lines of Demise.

But I really do get the overall vibe that all things Ganon died with Dorf in this game.
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Did you guys also skipped first Lightning dungeon section and went directly to the ascencion room?

I saw some people mentioning that if you did this Riju was supposed to get stuck and you need to do it the linear way. But for some reason she appeared in this room for me. I only got a warning from her when I ascended directly to the boss arena.

This being a bug makes sense. I just completed the first section after finishing the boss and was like: Why the hell did they created this first section if most people will try ascend? It makes no sense for Riju just pop up there.

manfromthedam said:
Re: dungeons and sequelitis - it would've been real nice if the dungeons weren't in the same regions as in BotW, with the same themes. A big reason why this game doesn't really feel like it's own thing to me. Having a dungeon in Faron (sorta) and what resulted after that was fantastic, and one of the few times when I felt like I was really playing a new Zelda game.

Still kinda hoping the DLC gives this game more of it's own identity, but not counting on it. TotK definitely has more meat on it's bones which makes it a better flowing game than BotW, but as it stands now I don't think it'll crack my Zelda top 3 for leaning so hard on it's predecessor.
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In general it's really disappointing when you think how similar the progression in this game is when compared to BOTW.
Shrines, Korok Seeds, Memories, Great Fairy, Champion's powers(with worst way of using it).

Kudos for Majora's Mask on how to feel fresh when compared to the previous game using the same assets and technology(and taking 1/5 of development time of it's predecessor).
 
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I already saved the Deku Tree after my first temple, but I haven't actually acquired the Master Sword yet after 3 of them because it sort of felt like jumping the line. I've heard the game actually only gives you a quest to get the Master Sword toward the very end, but I'm kinda missing the Master Sword at this point. Am I missing a lot of interesting story stuff if I grab the Master Sword before Gerudo?
 
They should've given Link the golden gauntlets and instead of a sage getting a secret stone after a temple, we get another one, adding to our collection on our golden gauntlet. When you fight the demon dragon, you use the master sword to pry the secret stone off the dragon's head instead of destroying it. At the very end of the game when Zelda is falling, you reach for the final stone on her necklace, instead of her arm, to complete the gauntlet.

Then you snap your fingers.
 
WestEgg said:
Kind of wild that Link is pretty much the only character to face Ganondorf that did not have a secret stone, he’s… just that good. You’d think one of the sages, seeing Link is already 95% of their overall fighting strength, would be like “actually, you take it.”
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He doesn't have a stone but with the Master Sword powered up as it was, he may as well have had one. New Sage of Light with the sword.

Abitante said:
How good is the imprisioning war flashback? When Ganondorf says that he can't wait to meet Link a the heroic theme kicks in... chills.
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one of my favorite uses of the main theme ever. this story really does some cool shit.
 
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Finally finished the game.
220 hours, all shrines, all light roots, a few sidequests and some treasure missing, some wells and caves missing as well, King Gleeok and some others yet to beat.
Will do the rest with the guide book or if a DLC comes.

It is a great game.
But it is interesting..BotW was able to surprise me a lot. I did not know what to expect from a Zelda in an open world and therefore I was constantly delighted by the world, the exploration, the combat, the puzzles, all the systems interacting.

For TotK I had very high expectations and while they were met several times (design of temples and bosses, caves/wells, sky diving, building stuff with ultrahand, shrines), other times I was left a bit disappointed (the depths, diversity of sky islands, number of temples and bosses, not much new fauna/flora, housing very limited, the overall structure/story too similar to BotW,...).
It did not surpass my expectations in anything I can think of. I guess it would have in regards to Ultrahand-creations but I am just not that type of player who loves creative engineering just for the sake of it (I loved it while doing puzzles in shrines).

While I still admire the devs a lot for putting something like Ultrahand/Fuse/Recall in such a dynamic open world without causing a huge mess, I think BotW is still the greater achievement. So much of TotK was already established in BotW, it's kind of insane.


The final boss and ending was definitely awesome though!!
 
Horror Kid said:
Finally finished the game.
220 hours, all shrines, all light roots, a few sidequests and some treasure missing, some wells and caves missing as well, King Gleeok and some others yet to beat.
Will do the rest with the guide book or if a DLC comes.

It is a great game.
But it is interesting..BotW was able to surprise me a lot. I did not know what to expect from a Zelda in an open world and therefore I was constantly delighted by the world, the exploration, the combat, the puzzles, all the systems interacting.

For TotK I had very high expectations and while they were met several times (design of temples and bosses, caves/wells, sky diving, building stuff with ultrahand, shrines), other times I was left a bit disappointed (the depths, diversity of sky islands, number of temples and bosses, not much new fauna/flora, housing very limited, the overall structure/story too similar to BotW,...).
It did not surpass my expectations in anything I can think of. I guess it would have in regards to Ultrahand-creations but I am just not that type of player who loves creative engineering just for the sake of it (I loved it while doing puzzles in shrines).

While I still admire the devs a lot for putting something like Ultrahand/Fuse/Recall in such a dynamic open world without causing a huge mess, I think BotW is still the greater achievement. So much of TotK was already established in BotW, it's kind of insane.


The final boss and ending was definitely awesome though!!
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Had a lot in common with your thoughts. While I'm not the biggest BOTW fan(actually I really enjoy it but prefer other 3d Zeldas) it managed to surprise me more. A lot of Totk additions are welcome(love ascend) but imo BOTW had the biggest impact. Though Totk might be the game that people will revisit in the future when wanting to scratch this type of Zelda itch.

Btw, didn't have a good time fighting Gleeoks. By the time I fought them for the first time (even the strongest one) I had enough eyeballs and strong bows. My fights ended up being more about menu work. Maybe I will try to fight them low on resources at some point but I'm not the self-imposed challenge type of guy.
 
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korok said:
Totally. I literally don't see any difference between wanting to rule the world and wanting the Triforce in order to rule the world. Pretending like Ganondorf was deeper than just being evil for the sake of being evil is something I didn't see coming.
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I mean, "I want to rule Hyrule" is something that can be extended to... Rhoam and Rauru.

In that sense I don't really think Rhoam or Rauru really have much moral credit next to Ganondorf other than framing. Plus the power dynamic betwen Rauru and Sonia? Yikes.
 
LegendHero said:
I already saved the Deku Tree after my first temple, but I haven't actually acquired the Master Sword yet after 3 of them because it sort of felt like jumping the line. I've heard the game actually only gives you a quest to get the Master Sword toward the very end, but I'm kinda missing the Master Sword at this point. Am I missing a lot of interesting story stuff if I grab the Master Sword before Gerudo?
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There’s a few quests that point you towards the Master Sword, you can just go for it. The further you get this will make more sense, but the game still has dialog “oh you should do X next, oh you did, ok next thing” if you break sequence. I did a bigger one and it still let me do the stuff I skipped if that makes sense.
 
"Assist THE SWORDSMAN, Link".

So fucking cool how they refer to Link as the Swordsman, not the hero of the goddess or something.

manfromthedam said:
Re: dungeons and sequelitis - it would've been real nice if the dungeons weren't in the same regions as in BotW, with the same themes. A big reason why this game doesn't really feel like it's own thing to me. Having a dungeon in Faron (sorta) and what resulted after that was fantastic, and one of the few times when I felt like I was really playing a new Zelda game.

Still kinda hoping the DLC gives this game more of it's own identity, but not counting on it. TotK definitely has more meat on it's bones which makes it a better flowing game than BotW, but as it stands now I don't think it'll crack my Zelda top 3 for leaning so hard on it's predecessor.
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I agree with the dungeon location criticism. I definitely felt like I was going through the motions, going back to each location and solving their problems in the same places. Only time I didn't really feel this was Death Mountain and the Gorons because that whole entire region feels totally new now that the magma is gone. Plus it had great bosses throughout, and a sick leadup to the Fire Temple properly underground.
 
Reflecting a bit on my experience, I think one of my favourite segments overall was Zora's Domain, mostly because of how it flowed together so nicely from the moment you arrive:
  1. Arrived at Wetland Stable by foot from Lookout Landing, doing some quests there and meeting our beloved Flowerblight (there's like 20 interactions you can do with her new flowerbeds)
  2. Crossing the Lanayru Wetlands and getting wrecked by the first Lynel I've found in the game
  3. Proceeding along Zora River and finding the place absolutely studded with caves to explore, the Zora stelae having been rewritten by Sidon, and finally ending with an ascend that drops you near the map tower
  4. Shooting up and getting a good look from the sky at the polluted Wetland, finding that ominous sphere with a puzzle inside to unlock a shrine, and dropping down Luto's crossing to fight a Boss Boko and his gang on the narrow bridge
  5. Reaching the Domain, meeting Yona and talking to the NPCs, and then the trek to Mipha's Court with Sidon there and that fantastic theme hits you.
  6. The riddle sequence with Jiahto, the kids in the throne room, jumping down a waterfall to this totally unexpected Sanctuary and finding the Zora King all messed up, finding my way up the Floating Scales Island and opening up the drain in the reservoir.
  7. Swimming down into the cave and discovering the Ancient Zora Waterworks, at that point I was thinking oh we've reached the Temple surely, but no, it was just a classic puzzle sequence of arranging floating platforms and raising the water level, the atmosphere here was just perfect
  8. Climbing the waterfall towards Wellspring Island and crossing the low gravity barrier, I spent way too long here cleaning almost every puddle of grime because it had to be done
  9. Finally reaching the Temple, which surprisingly was one of the weaker parts of the whole thing with it being so segmented, but overall it was fine and I thought the wacky Mucktorock fight was fun, love his theme
  10. Getting the secret stone and dropping down to the Domain all cleaned up and nice, crowning Sidon and doing the Zora set quests to cap it off
I think one of the biggest strengths of this game is how it keeps the party going with every single turn, and it rewards you for taking your time and pacing yourself by not beelining for the main quests the moment you arrive. the whole sequence felt like an adventure that naturally unfolded just by exploring the obvious points of interest along the way.

The only thing I felt was missing during all this was enemy variety, I think even adding just one unique regional enemy to every main quest area would've done wonders to the game, in the same manner of the Gibdos in Gerudo.
 
Just found out that if you sneak up on one of the cave bunnies and hit them with a sword they drop Rupees, lol. That's pretty great.

I took a week off (not intentionally, just got kinda busy and distracted with other things) and then came back to it last night... and ruined my sleep schedule all over again playing it. I sympathize with people who weren't as impressed as they were with BOTW but this game completely blows it out of the water for me. Easily one of the greatest games I've ever played. Gonna work on hitting all the Shrines and Lightroots over time and then maybe do even more stuff in it, 115 hours so far.
 
All of the original TOTK music is great. Way more of what I was looking for in the OST.

That being said, some of the reused piano-focused themes in BOTW don't fit at all. The Mt. Hylia theme from the Great Plateau (or any other snowy peak) and the horseback themes, in particular. TOTK isn't the same lonely somber adventure as BOTW was, it's a game about community and comradery, and those particular themes should've reflected that more.

I don't mind the reuse of certain village themes since some of them (Rito Village and Zora's Domain) are literally perfect. And we do get the best of both worlds, with the before phenomenon/after phenomenon versions.

...just realized I haven't even stepped foot in Tarrey Town yet. It's been 150 hours.
 
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xghost777 said:
There’s a few quests that point you towards the Master Sword, you can just go for it. The further you get this will make more sense, but the game still has dialog “oh you should do X next, oh you did, ok next thing” if you break sequence. I did a bigger one and it still let me do the stuff I skipped if that makes sense.
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Thanks for the input.
Concernt said:
I mean, "I want to rule Hyrule" is something that can be extended to... Rhoam and Rauru.

In that sense I don't really think Rhoam or Rauru really have much moral credit next to Ganondorf other than framing. Plus the power dynamic betwen Rauru and Sonia? Yikes.
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Rhoam already ruled Hyrule, wanting to keep the house you inherited from your parents isn't morally equivalent to wanting to kill the owners of a house so you can move in, even if you disagree with the system in which the house was inherited.

As for Rauru, it's closer, but the difference is every version of Ganondorf unleashes monsters on the populace and cares only about his own gratification while Rauru did a bunch of stuff for the people of Hyrule, including being trapped as a ghost for thousands of years just to keep Ganondorf imprisoned. The desire to be king is the same, but the actions taken to become king and as king are totally different. Rauru is clearly a better king than Ganondorf even if you don't like the institution of royalty.
 
LegendHero said:
Thanks for the input.

Rhoam already ruled Hyrule, wanting to keep the house you inherited from your parents isn't morally equivalent to wanting to kill the owners of a house so you can move in, even if you disagree with the system in which the house was inherited.

As for Rauru, it's closer, but the difference is every version of Ganondorf unleashes monsters on the populace and cares only about his own gratification while Rauru did a bunch of stuff for the people of Hyrule, including being trapped as a ghost for thousands of years just to keep Ganondorf imprisoned. The desire to be king is the same, but the actions taken to become king and as king are totally different. Rauru is clearly a better king than Ganondorf even if you don't like the institution of royalty.
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Being a monarch, becoming a monarch, I care little. Monarchy is immoral regardless. While Ganondorf's people don't even have arable land. Ganondorf does worse things. I don't think he's a worse person, morally. He's intended to be, yeah, but, no, inheriting dominion over people, and doing nothing about it, is wrong.
 
Rauru wanted to ensure the land was prosperous and the people there could live good lives. He was willing to die to make sure the people were safe.

Ganondorf wanted to murder everyone, including his own Gerudo allies. Treating them as if they're equivalent just because they both ostensibly have the same title of king is absurd.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
Rauru wanted to ensure the land was prosperous and the people there could live good lives. He was willing to die to make sure the people were safe.

Ganondorf wanted to murder everyone, including his own Gerudo allies. Treating them as if they're equivalent just because they both ostensibly have the same title of king is absurd.
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Plus, even if an institution is wrong it doesn't mean every person within it is equally evil. But also, for most of human history in most places the notion that kings should exist wasn't even really questioned, so I don't think you can fault Rauru or Rhoam for not seeing the institution as fundamentally wrong. But yes, every version of Ganondorf is clearly more selfish and hungry for power than the Hyrule Royal Family.
 
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Honestly, the Kingdoms in Nintendo games big large franchises (i.e. Mario, Zelda, etc) never made any sense. Like is there a nobility line? How is taxes even worked? How does the monarchy even function in TotK when it's clear the kingdom just doesn't have the resources to like actually function as a kingdom? It seems more like how King Dedede is royalty. He just says he is and everyone else just goes along with it because hey, there's someone who can knock some sense into them if they ever go true evil.
 
Concernt said:
Being a monarch, becoming a monarch, I care little. Monarchy is immoral regardless. While Ganondorf's people don't even have arable land. Ganondorf does worse things. I don't think he's a worse person, morally. He's intended to be, yeah, but, no, inheriting dominion over people, and doing nothing about it, is wrong.
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Ganondorf literally created monsters to murder everyone, including the Gerudo and in his own words "Leave no survivors". You cannot seriously be saying their is some moral equivalency here
 
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xaszatm said:
Honestly, the Kingdoms in Nintendo games big large franchises (i.e. Mario, Zelda, etc) never made any sense. Like is there a nobility line? How is taxes even worked? How does the monarchy even function in TotK when it's clear the kingdom just doesn't have the resources to like actually function as a kingdom? It seems more like how King Dedede is royalty. He just says he is and everyone else just goes along with it because hey, there's someone who can knock some sense into them if they ever go true evil.
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isn't this just the "What was Aragorn's tax policy" argument?
 
Lugia667 said:
isn't this just the "What was Aragorn's tax policy" argument?
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I mean in the sense that Hyrule, Mushroom Kingdom. etc, that these places act so little like what an actual monarchy is, I don't really see the need for people to argue about why the system is good/bad. LIke, yes, I would despise the Hyrule Kingdom if it existed in our history books, but like, I doubt anyone thought long about the political ramifications of keeping a dynastic line for (at least) 10,000 years when developing the games. It's not advocating for monarchy or anything.
 
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I’m a staunch anti monarchist, for reasons I’m not going to bore you all with in this thread.

But the thing is, in a fantasy world where there are literal, definitive Gods and beings walking around who are the actual incarnations of those Gods, who have a well documented history of manifesting powers beyond imagination in order to save the entire world then maybe, maybe I’d be ok with saying ‘Yeah, this bloodline actually is really quite important, we should probably look after it and listen carefully to their leadership.’
 
Lugia667 said:
Ganondorf literally created monsters to murder everyone, including the Gerudo and in his own words "Leave no survivors". You cannot seriously be saying their is some moral equivalency here
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Yes, I can. I mean. It's not like real world monarchy is much better than that. It's just less blunt about its intentions. That also isn't a full representation of Ganondorf's goals and actions. Before he started the whole "let's assassinate the Queen and kill everyone" thing he absolutely had a moral leg-up on Rauru. I mean Rauru pretty unsubtly colonises his kingdom. We don't see what economic (or military) forces that cause this, but it does happen.

Given what happened to my country, and many others, I don't believe a colonising self-proclaimed king has much of a moral high ground over "slaughter everyone" nihilism.
 
Remind me was that before or after he sent the Molduga over? Unless there is any idincation Hyrule invaded the Gerudo, then Ganondorf by every means was the instigator, period. Also the Gerudo have been shown to function just fine without that "arable land" anyways
 
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What a bizarre take. This perfect fantasy ruler who's good in every way is just as bad as the muderous conquering lunatic because they're both kings. Real world logic around monarchies and colonization just can't apply to a story like TOTK because the game doesn't leave any door open for political and historical complexity like that to exist. You'd have a better argument with the Hyrulean rulers from 10,000 years ago because at least there we can find some moral ambiguity.
Concernt said:
I mean Rauru pretty unsubtly colonises his kingdom. We don't see what economic (or military) forces that cause this, but it does happen.
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You mean when Ganondorf willingly joins the Hyrule Kingdom so he can have access to a divine superweapon to further genocide the people he's jealous of?
 
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I’ll admit that while he has a cool design and is definitely well executed for what he is, I am a little underwhelmed by Ganondorf in this game. Being a “new Ganondorf” without the history of OG Ganondorf who has the knowledge and experiences of prior games takes away a lot of his gravitas as a series fixture. In a series full of new heroes and Zeldas and an ever changing Hyrule, Ganon(dorf) as a singular recurring entity made him unique and imposing, feeling like every time he’d return, he’d be even more of a threat than ever. The new guy is unfortunately just a power hungry usurper who is looking to conquer for the sake of conquest. And worse, he retroactively makes Calamity Ganon (assuming Calamity Ganon is a projection of gloom/malice and a product of this guy rather than somehow tied to OG Ganondorf) a much less interesting antagonist as well.
 
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