Rumour Paper Mario Thousand Year Door HD in development

[Tye]

If this game does exist and it gets rid of the unique Mario enemies characters I hope it bombs so hard it puts Intelligent systems into bankruptcy.

A TTYD without those characters is not TTYD.

It wouldn’t “get rid of” those characters, and there would likely be very few characters that would be changed, if any. And if any characters are altered, it’ll almost certainly only be some minor characters like Koopley, Koopie Koo, Jolene, etc., and the changes themselves would be relatively minor too—mostly just removing hair, I’d assume. All of the main characters are either entirely original (so they’re fine as is), or don’t go against established designs enough to necessitate being changed. The only one that seems questionable to me is Goombella with her ponytail, but I can see them letting that one slide, especially since it’s not clear that the hair is even attached to her head at all (it could just be part of her helmet, lol).

Minor changes like that really wouldn’t be that big of a deal. It would be even less than what they changed in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser’s Minions. And I’m pretty sure the potential new audience of a PM:TTYD remaster/remake would absolutely dwarf the number of people who played the original version on GameCube, so I really don’t think it would matter much even if they were to make some more extreme changes (which I don’t believe they would do, anyway).

Honestly that's kinda shocking, they've basically eradicated any unique toad from the series at this point, hell I'm shocked Toadette is even still allowed, but hearing he's still in the M&L remakes is a little reassuring.

It seems like the reason they don’t use Toadsworth in new games anymore may be because their current stance is that Toads are agender (and possible don’t show signs of aging, too?), while Toadsworth was created as an elderly male Toad, so they kinda just…ignore him now, lol. (I guess you could just say he died and that would make sense in-universe, lol.) Of course, there’s still Toadette, but she seems to be a special case, and it appears that they may have tried to establish some sort of lore with her with the addition of the Super Crown, with the implication that she is different from other Toads and has some sort of connection to Peach, so I guess that gives her a pass for being the only Toad that’s not agender? Though she can still technically be agender even with feminine pronouns and presentation (not that I would have expected Nintendo to consider that), but I guess you could argue the same for Toadsworth too. In that case I imagine the age thing might be more of the reason why they’ve seemingly ditched Toadsworth now.

Regardless, as has already been mentioned, he’s still able to be used in remakes, and Nintendo had no issue with him being used as a spirit in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, either. They just don’t seem to want to use him in new games anymore.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Love how IntSys's in-game joke about how interchangeable and silly these stories are made people actually want a game with Luigi in the Waffle Kingdom.

 

[Mango]

It wouldn’t “get rid of” those characters, and there would likely be very few characters that would be changed, if any. And if any characters are altered, it’ll almost certainly only be some minor characters like Koopley, Koopie Koo, Jolene, etc., and the changes themselves would be relatively minor too—mostly just removing hair, I’d assume. All of the main characters are either entirely original (so they’re fine as is), or don’t go against established designs enough to necessitate being changed. The only one that seems questionable to me is Goombella with her ponytail, but I can see them letting that one slide, especially since it’s not clear that the hair is even attached to her head at all (it could just be part of her helmet, lol).

Minor changes like that really wouldn’t be that big of a deal. It would be even less than what they changed in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser’s Minions. And I’m pretty sure the potential new audience of a PM:TTYD remaster/remake would absolutely dwarf the number of people who played the original version on GameCube, so I really don’t think it would matter much even if they were to make some more extreme changes (which I don’t believe they would do, anyway).


It seems like the reason they don’t use Toadsworth in new games anymore may be because their current stance is that Toads are agender (and possible don’t show signs of aging, too?), while Toadsworth was created as an elderly male Toad, so they kinda just…ignore him now, lol. (I guess you could just say he died and that would make sense in-universe, lol.) Of course, there’s still Toadette, but she seems to be a special case, and it appears that they may have tried to establish some sort of lore with her with the addition of the Super Crown, with the implication that she is different from other Toads and has some sort of connection to Peach, so I guess that gives her a pass for being the only Toad that’s not agender? Though she can still technically be agender even with feminine pronouns and presentation (not that I would have expected Nintendo to consider that), but I guess you could argue the same for Toadsworth too. In that case I imagine the age thing might be more of the reason why they’ve seemingly ditched Toadsworth now.

Regardless, as has already been mentioned, he’s still able to be used in remakes, and Nintendo had no issue with him being used as a spirit in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, either. They just don’t seem to want to use him in new games anymore.

Everything you just described sounds awful and is the exact kind of changes that would ruin TTYD. Turning the unique toads, Koopas, Goombas, Bob-ombs and so on into generic Mario enemies is the last possible thing I'd want.

We're talking about a game with a Pianta Mafia, parlor girl boos, a village or unique Koopas, a family of rich posh Bob-ombs, movie star toads, maid toads, Russian Bob-ombs, and so on and so on. Taking any of that out is making it not TTYD. Plus frankly screw the dumb agender toad idea, it makes no sense and destroys any character potential of the toad species. This homogenization nonsense is exactly whats holding Mario back.

 

[Tye]

Everything you just described sounds awful and is the exact kind of changes that would ruin TTYD. Turning the unique toads, Koopas, Goombas, Bob-ombs and so on into generic Mario enemies is the last possible thing I'd want.

We're talking about a game with a Pianta Mafia, parlor girl boos, a village or unique Koopas, a family of rich posh Bob-ombs, movie star toads, maid toads, Russian Bob-ombs, and so on and so on. Taking any of that out is making it not TTYD. Plus frankly screw the dumb agender toad idea, it makes no sense and destroys any character potential of the toad species. This homogenization nonsense is exactly whats holding Mario back.

You seem to be misunderstanding my post—all of those characters would still be those same characters. I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. Their personalities, role in the game, etc. would go entirely unchanged. There would only be a slight change in visual design for some, likely keeping their unique clothing and all but possibly modifying their actual bodies when deemed necessary to better align with the standard depictions of the species in question, like removing hair in some cases. And most of the characters you refer to wouldn’t need to be changed at all.

I’m not saying you have to like it at all, but I feel it would be wrong to say that it would be a huge change, because realistically the changes that they would make would be few and relatively minor overall, which I really don’t think would be that big of a deal to most people. Some fans of the original game might miss the original designs of some characters, and that’s totally valid and understandable, but just as many (if not many more) people who are new to the game may appreciate the more consistent and familiar designs better.

 

[Hailinel]

Everything you just described sounds awful and is the exact kind of changes that would ruin TTYD. Turning the unique toads, Koopas, Goombas, Bob-ombs and so on into generic Mario enemies is the last possible thing I'd want.

We're talking about a game with a Pianta Mafia, parlor girl boos, a village or unique Koopas, a family of rich posh Bob-ombs, movie star toads, maid toads, Russian Bob-ombs, and so on and so on. Taking any of that out is making it not TTYD. Plus frankly screw the dumb agender toad idea, it makes no sense and destroys any character potential of the toad species. This homogenization nonsense is exactly whats holding Mario back.

Can you at least wait for confirmation that this game is real and footage of it exists before making a series of posts that are all operating under the assumption Nintendo is out to destroy the game and personally crowbar your kneecaps?

 

[O. W. Funnyname]

Getting upset over people not trusting Nintendo is very tiresome behavior.

Hoping for an entire game studio to go bankrupt because they changed the design of a silly mushroom man NPC is pretty wack, though.

Looking at how the Mario & Luigi remakes turned out (as mentioned a few times in this thread), all this fearfulness over a potential TTYD remake is unnecessary.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Can you at least wait for confirmation that this game is real and footage of it exists before making a series of posts that are all operating under the assumption Nintendo is out to destroy the game and personally crowbar your kneecaps?

That's literally all TTYD fans have left, don't you dare take it away.

 

[Mango]

You seem to be misunderstanding my post—all of those characters would still be those same characters. I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. Their personalities, role in the game, etc. would go entirely unchanged. There would only be a slight change in visual design for some, likely keeping their unique clothing and all but possibly modifying their actual bodies when deemed necessary to better align with the standard depictions of the species in question, like removing hair in some cases. And most of the characters you refer to wouldn’t need to be changed at all.

I’m not saying you have to like it at all, but I feel it would be wrong to say that it would be a huge change, because realistically the changes that they would make would be few and relatively minor overall, which I really don’t think would be that big of a deal to most people. Some fans of the original game might miss the original designs of some characters, and that’s totally valid and understandable, but just as many (if not many more) people who are new to the game may appreciate the more consistent and familiar designs better.

If you take Koopie Koo and remove her hair and her eyelashes and everything that makes her a Unique Koopa or take the Gramps Koopa and make him yellow instead of green or so on, they're not the same characters even if you still give them unique names, which frankly given ToK even names would be a stretch considering every toad is either nameless or some variation of the name "Toad."

Any change to the cast is a change too far imo. On that note tho I'm getting too heated I'm sorry.

Can you at least wait for confirmation that this game is real and footage of it exists before making a series of posts that are all operating under the assumption Nintendo is out to destroy the game and personally crowbar your kneecaps?

Yeah I'm getting too carried away. I'm sorry.

 

[Bowser Sr.]

I severely doubt they would change designs of major characters. Making random unimportant NPCs generic is one thing, but taking away design elements of partners that need to stand out from the basic koopas and goombas is a choice that would actively hurt the gameplay on basis of visual clarity alone.

 

[Tye]

If you take Koopie Koo and remove her hair and her eyelashes and everything that makes her a Unique Koopa or take the Gramps Koopa and make him yellow instead of green or so on, they're not the same characters even if you still give them unique names, which frankly given ToK even names would be a stretch considering every toad is either nameless or some variation of the name "Toad."

Any change to the cast is a change too far imo. On that note tho I'm getting too heated I'm sorry.

It’s okay, I just think you’re overstating how big any potential changes would likely be and how much it would affect the game.

Like, take Koopie Koo. Remove her hair and you’ve got…

(Excuse the quick and dirty editing, lol.)

That’s not really that big of a change, is it? The eyelashes shouldn’t be a problem (as much as I hate the obligatory “female characters must have prominent eyelashes” trope…) since Goombette exists in Super Mario Odyssey.

I’m not sure how exactly they might handle Kroop, but regardless these are relatively minor characters anyway. Besides, we already have an idea of what to expect with other examples like the Mario & Luigi remakes, and those went over relatively fine. Plus plenty of other remakes change character designs—even major ones, not just minor characters—a lot more than this, anyway, so ultimately I don’t think it should be a big deal at all.

And there’s still the possibility, if the game even exists in the first place, that they don’t change any character designs at all! But my point was if they do change some, the changes will likely be few and relatively minor.

 

[Mango]

@Tye

Personally yes I do see that as a big change. Not trying to be rude or overly aggressive like my previous posts, but not allowing characters to have hair or other distinguishing characteristics is just dumb and frankly really arbitrary. Why can't Koopas have hair? Why can't they have unique skin tones? Why must every Koopa simply just be a Koopa? My frustrations over this extend beyond just TTYD tho, as I hate this in all facets of Mario. Why have a world that's as creative as Mario if giving a Goomba a slightly different shade of skin color is a character deviation too far? Goombas are a species, toads are a species, Yoshis are a species, there should be unique goombas, Koopas, Toads, and so on, forcing them to remain consistent only hampers the creative potential of the series and overwhelms it with a sense of bland corporatization. That's why the Mario and Luigi series and the original paper Marios are so beloved, because they actually built off the world of Mario.

Moreover I'd like to say Nintendo wouldn't change anything, but if this hypothetical game exist I simply don't have faith they would, and that's because I did try to give modern paper Mario a chance, I played Origami King, and what the game felt like to me was like it was being muzzled, like it wanted to be more but couldn't because some weird arbitrary rules were holding it back. Ultimately a rpg relies on its story and story relies on characters, if a game isn't gonna allow it's characters to be characters why even bother having a story? You may as well gut it entirely like Sticker Star.


Of course we don't know if this is a real remake/remaster/whatever, but I don't have faith it will be treated with the respect I personally feel it deserves if it does exist, and while some may be ok with how the M&L remakes were handled, to me, looking at the examples in this thread I'm not, so even if it's on par with those, that's still too far and unnecessary to me.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that M&L is not a good comparison to Paper Mario anyways, as the former always relied more on wholly unique non-Mario characters more the latter which in the original two games heavily relied on unique Mario based characters. M&L from the start already had a lot of bland Mario enemy characters, so the fact that even then some of the remaining unique ones were changed gives me even less hope for a potential TTYD remaster.

 

[Tye]

@Tye

Personally yes I do see that as a big change. Not trying to be rude or overly aggressive like my previous posts, but not allowing characters to have hair or other distinguishing characteristics is just dumb and frankly really arbitrary. Why can't Koopas have hair? Why can't they have unique skin tones? Why must every Koopa simply just be a Koopa? My frustrations over this extend beyond just TTYD tho, as I hate this in all facets of Mario. Why have a world that's as creative as Mario if giving a Goomba a slightly different shade of skin color is a character deviation too far? Goombas are a species, toads are a species, Yoshis are a species, there should be unique goombas, Koopas, Toads, and so on, forcing them to remain consistent only hampers the creative potential of the series and overwhelms it with a sense of bland corporatization. That's why the Mario and Luigi series and the original paper Marios are so beloved, because they actually built off the world of Mario.

Moreover I'd like to say Nintendo wouldn't change anything, but if this hypothetical game exist I simply don't have faith they would, and that's because I did try to give modern paper Mario a chance, I played Origami King, and what the game felt like to me was like it was being muzzled, like it wanted to be more but couldn't because some weird arbitrary rules were holding it back. Ultimately a rpg relies on its story and story relies on characters, if a game isn't gonna allow it's characters to be characters why even bother having a story? You may as well gut it entirely like Sticker Star.


Of course we don't know if this is a real remake/remaster/whatever, but I don't have faith it will be treated with the respect I personally feel it deserves if it does exist, and while some may be ok with how the M&L remakes were handled, to me, looking at the examples in this thread I'm not, so even if it's on par with those, that's still too far and unnecessary to me.

It’s just consistent brand management. Like I said, some people will naturally dislike that, like you, and some won’t mind or will even prefer it, like me, and both are fine. Personally, it was always weird to me that things were handled so differently in the RPG games than the main series games, and of course none of that stuff is ever acknowledged in the main series games anyway, so you get this weird divide which makes the RPGs and other spin-offs feel “off” to me, as if they’re knock-offs or something. It’s like, why am I supposed to care about these characters when they’re never going to appear in other games? Why are their designs so much different from the main series games? That’s how I see it, at least. I’ll admit that some of the designs are neat and I don’t hate them, I just would overall prefer to have more consistency. You could argue that a solution would be for Nintendo to just start using all these spin-off designs in the main series games too, but I’d feel like that would be a mess, and I know a lot of people would be complaining about that, too—people already complain a lot about Odyssey’s mishmash of different character designs, after all, even if all the existing characters keep their standard designs.

There’s not a single right or wrong opinion here, of course, but the fact is Nintendo has seemingly established these rules for the brand (and they’ve been in practice for quite awhile at this point) and they don’t seem to be changing that any time soon, so…it is what is it. And I don’t feel like many people would be clamoring for unique Toad or Koopa designs if we never had these spin-offs create them in the first place. Like, if Paper Mario started with The Origami King, I don’t think anyone would really care about the character designs at all. Of course, that’s not the reality we live in, so it’s understandable that some people will prefer what came before. But I disagree entirely in regards to ToK, because I thought it had great characters and story—I mean, it’s the only Paper Mario game to make me actually cry, lol—and the fact that it did that while staying truer to the main series depiction of the Mario series proved to me that you really don’t need to have all these wacky, unique character designs (that will probably never be seen again) in order to have a compelling story or characters. And I don’t see it as being less creative at all; it’s just creative in a different way. If anything I feel like working around limitations sometimes brings out even more interesting creativity, personally. But I think we’re just not gonna agree here, and that’s fine.

 

[Mango]

@Tye

Listen, it's fine if like the brand homogenization of Mario, I don't, and I won't support a hypothetical bastardization of what is perhaps one of the most creative and best Mario games. ToK killed any hope I had left for the Paper Mario series, I'd personally prefer they leave what remains of what I consider the true Paper Mario series, alone. I don't even want a remaster tbh. It's the last game I want modern Nintendo to touch.

That's all I'm gonna say on the subject, as I can feel myself getting heated again just thinking of the potential outcome of this hypothetical remaster.

 

[Mekanos]

Love how IntSys's in-game joke about how interchangeable and silly these stories are made people actually want a game with Luigi in the Waffle Kingdom.

You would play it, don't lie.

 

[Sunshinemario]

I honestly want a full-fledged remake, and I don’t care if that makes some characters at risk of being homogenized. I’m sure most of the cast would stay intact. A full-fledged remake would have a much more drastic impact on the series, whereas a simple upressed port wouldn’t change much aside from making the game easier to buy and play.

 

[Brofield]

@Tye

Listen, it's fine if like the brand homogenization of Mario, I don't, and I won't support a hypothetical bastardization of what is perhaps one of the most creative and best Mario games. ToK killed any hope I had left for the Paper Mario series, I'd personally prefer they leave what remains of what I consider the true Paper Mario series, alone. I don't even want a remaster tbh. It's the last game I want modern Nintendo to touch.

That's all I'm gonna say on the subject, as I can feel myself getting heated again just thinking of the potential outcome of this hypothetical remaster.

Touching on this point for the sake of discussion - while I will still recommend the game quite happily to anyone who doesn't have any fond nostalgia for the first two Paper Mario games, I agree in that TOK was about as good a swan song as the series could have ended on for my tastes, because at this point I have since accepted the Paper Mario series have moved on without me and I feel I am allowed to be a little sad lamenting a series that doesn't otherwise provide me with any excitement with new entries.

Which is why I and I'm sure many others are straddling a fine line of hyped beyond all belief of The Last "Good" Paper Mario™ getting a remaster bringing it to modern consoles, while also scared shitless that it's gonna be filtered through a fine mesh that strips all the positive quirks that separated it so distinctly from other Mario games.

Remasters and remakes can always run the risk of obliterating fond memories and nostalgia, but in comparison to Resident Evil 4 or Final Fantasy VII, it certainly feels like TTYD runs a higher risk of being cut down at the knees before it even has a chance to stand because of some arbitrary "the aesthetics must be IDENTICAL" rule. Not even similar or with funny clothes/wigs, but straight up identical.

Spoiler

Admiral Bobbery over Bobby and you can't change my mind

 

[Mango]

@Brofield

Who's "Bobby?" His name's "Bob-omb" like every other Bob-omb to ever Bob-omb, Bobby is just a nickname, one that I'm not even 100% sure is in the Japanese version of TOK.

 

[Weiss]

You would play it, don't lie.

I absolutely would.

 

[Mr Doggo]

Super would be a much more based choice as a remaster anyway.

 

[EvilChameleon]

This thread;

 

[Brofield]

@Brofield

Who's "Bobby?" His name's "Bob-omb" like every other Bob-omb to ever Bob-omb, Bobby is just a nickname, one that I'm not even 100% sure is in the Japanese version of TOK.

Huh, never even realized that the nickname was exclusive to the English release of TOK, which honestly bothers me even more if only because every Bob-omb is named...bob-omb.

Like hell, you go around and call every human you meet "human" as if that's what is printed on their birth certificate? Nintendo's problem with Mario lore is that they're trying to constrict what has already been put out there, but like...why? I can't think of anyone who's such a purist and said "TTYD isn't Mario! It shouldn't even be a spin-off! It should be its own game franchise!" Like who does it harm to have a little variety in character depiction? I can understand it being taken too far in the future if it remained unchecked, but I can't imagine anything that was yet created prior to Mario Committee that would still offend now

 

[Superstarxalien]

Huh, never even realized that the nickname was exclusive to the English release of TOK, which honestly bothers me even more if only because every Bob-omb is named...bob-omb.

Like hell, you go around and call every human you meet "human" as if that's what is printed on their birth certificate? Nintendo's problem with Mario lore is that they're trying to constrict what has already been put out there, but like...why? I can't think of anyone who's such a purist and said "TTYD isn't Mario! It shouldn't even be a spin-off! It should be its own game franchise!" Like who does it harm to have a little variety in character depiction? I can understand it being taken too far in the future if it remained unchecked, but I can't imagine anything that was yet created prior to Mario Committee that would still offend now

the origami king spoilers

Spoiler

it's because bob-ombs in that game aren't individuals, they're more like factory-made robots

 

[Tye]

Huh, never even realized that the nickname was exclusive to the English release of TOK

It’s not. He has a nickname in all languages.

 

[MondoMega]

Like I said before, i'm not convinced they'll tamper with designs too much in this case given the core audience a TTYD remaster/make would be appealing to first and foremost (existing fans of TTYD). There's nothing suggesting to me that the unique character designs can't just be grandfathered in; and I can't imagine preferring they would be tossed out in favor of something objectively less interesting either.

If TTYD HD is leaning towards the remake side and isn't just a standard upscale remaster, then I would expect the base enemy designs to change to match their post-NSMB appearances; and that in-turn would somewhat impact the unique NPC designs of that species too. There's a lot more to consider with Koopa Troopas, so i'll use Goombas as a simple example:

Keep in mind that the pre-built sprite for each entity in TTYD's files (used above) aren't 100% accurate to their in-game appearance (specifically the shoes on the NPC Goomba and Professor Frankly; which were a late to change to all Goombas in the game that just didn't end up reflected here).

Here's how I think these would generally be adapted in a remake:

• Enemy Goomba and NPC Goomba would use the same base design and colour palette every Goomba does in CS/ToK. NPC Goomba would however retain their non-furrowed brow and hat; and naturally Hyper Goombas and other later enemy varaints would still need their own palettes.
• Frankly would keep his unique palette and features (glasses, brow shape, hair, squared teeth) but his general body and feature shapes would now fit the default Goomba template (as his body fits the regular Goomba shape in TTYD).
• Unlike Frankly, Goombella already has altered body, eye and brow shapes from the default Goomba; and these unique quirks can be retained while still adjusting the bottom / shoe shape to the standard. Obviously all of her other unique features and accessories would need to be retained as well.

I think if these guidelines were generally followed it would be a pretty fair adaptation that shouldn't upset too many existing fans.

 

[Mango]

It’s not. He has a nickname in all languages.

Oh well at least he got to keep the nickname.

Huh, never even realized that the nickname was exclusive to the English release of TOK, which honestly bothers me even more if only because every Bob-omb is named...bob-omb.

Like hell, you go around and call every human you meet "human" as if that's what is printed on their birth certificate? Nintendo's problem with Mario lore is that they're trying to constrict what has already been put out there, but like...why? I can't think of anyone who's such a purist and said "TTYD isn't Mario! It shouldn't even be a spin-off! It should be its own game franchise!" Like who does it harm to have a little variety in character depiction? I can understand it being taken too far in the future if it remained unchecked, but I can't imagine anything that was yet created prior to Mario Committee that would still offend now

Yeah he has the nickname in Japan, my bad like I said I wasn't sure, I was just going off what I remember hearing on Twitter when the game launched. Still couldn't even just let it be his name, and on that note the Professor Toad you get as a semi-partner is literally just called "Professor Toad" so it's not like Bob-ombs being manufactured soilders somehow excuses the bland character names.

Also yeah, there are things in TTYD I can realistically see Nintendo wanting to cut, like the noose in the middle of Rogueport, but a new fan of the series isn't gonna have their head explode from sheer confusion if they see a Goomba with a hat or a Koopa with hair. The weird overtly intense character guidelines do nothing to protect the series, they just hinder it. There's nothing in TTYD character department that would "ruin" or "harm" Mario.

 

[Dusa]

Hoping for an entire game studio to go bankrupt because they changed the design of a silly mushroom man NPC is pretty wack, though.

Looking at how the Mario & Luigi remakes turned out (as mentioned a few times in this thread), all this fearfulness over a potential TTYD remake is unnecessary.

Huh? That person didn't say that they hoped IS would fail lol

 

[Twilight]

They should make Bowser a big, normal Koopa with a crown for consistency sake.

 

[Sunshinemario]

Man, I've been thinking about this a lot. If it's just a standard HD upres (it very well could be) I imagine it's solely being pushed out just to make a quick buck in the Switch's late life cycle off of a very (currently) inaccessible game. Sure, you'd get all the characters and story elements maintained to a tee, and it would be a boost in performance, but I imagine it would have very little impact on the series as a whole. I would also wonder what the Paper Mario team is up to, and assume the next game in the SS-CS-TOK line is being saved for the next console.

I really hope this isn't that. I hope they are remaking the game or at least "Metroid Prime HD"-ifying it. I LOVE that concept art with Rogueport in the Color Splash style even if it's not my preferred style of Paper Mario art direction. It's like a marrying of the Paper Mario of old and new. And if this remake would be Intelligent Systems' next big PM title (the Switch has had a long life, and the GameCube at one point was going to receive two PM titles), it could have a massive impact on the series and really Mario RPG as a whole, creating interesting implications for future PM titles and allowing the developers to once again rethink the direction they take with the series, and perhaps finally go back to RPG roots.

 

[Mekanos]

Man, I've been thinking about this a lot. If it's just a standard HD upres (it very well could be) I imagine it's solely being pushed out just to make a quick buck in the Switch's late life cycle off of a very (currently) inaccessible game. Sure, you'd get all the characters and story elements maintained to a tee, and it would be a boost in performance, but I imagine it would have very little impact on the series as a whole. I would also wonder what the Paper Mario team is up to, and assume the next game in the SS-CS-TOK line is being saved for the next console.

I really hope this isn't that. I hope they are remaking the game or at least "Metroid Prime HD"-ifying it. I LOVE that concept art with Rogueport in the Color Splash style even if it's not my preferred style of Paper Mario art direction. It's like a marrying of the Paper Mario of old and new. And if this remake would be Intelligent Systems' next big PM title (the Switch has had a long life, and the GameCube at one point was going to receive two PM titles), it could have a massive impact on the series and really Mario RPG as a whole, creating interesting implications for future PM titles and allowing the developers to once again rethink the direction they take with the series, and perhaps finally go back to RPG roots.

I'd be very surprised if it is a full on big budget remake. IS has signaled they have no interest in returning to the older style of Paper Mario. I just want to have the game accessible on modern consoles and for them to not tweak it too much.

 

[Pierceyonder]

Yeah, put me in the camp of people that prefers the RPGs treating Mario enemies as species instead of nameless goons. The unification of Mario's branding has kind of stifled its creativity in a lot of ways, even if I personally really liked Origami King regardless.

As for the visuals, I'd personally love a complete graphical overhaul since the original game already holds up exceptionally well. If I want to play the original, there's always ways to do that. I'd rather have something akin to Metroid Prime Remastered than a no-frills HD upres, if I could pick.

 

[Sunshinemario]

I'd be very surprised if it is a full on big budget remake. IS has signaled they have no interest in returning to the older style of Paper Mario. I just want to have the game accessible on modern consoles and for them to not tweak it too much.

It could very easily be tweaked in areas that could benefit the game, though, and I really don't think asking for at least the Metroid Prime HD treatment is too much. In that route, they could even keep the smooth animation style and lack of white outlines around the characters.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

You would play it, don't lie.

If it’s better than TTYD, sure. Shouldn’t be that difficult.

 

[Vantell]

I don't get the fear of Nintendo changing stuff around. Cause Paper Mario on the N64 emulator has no changes done, right?

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I don't get the fear of Nintendo changing stuff around. Cause Paper Mario on the N64 emulator has no changes done, right?

Because that's an emulator. If they release this as a new retail game, they're going to make changes. Same as they did for Wind waker HD, Twilight Princess HD, Metroid prime remastered, Luigi's mansion 3D, so on. At bare minimum it'll get a bunch of QOL changes and graphical updates.

 

[PikminSnezkov]

I have talked more with @NateDrake privately and shared additional material in absolute confidence. This is the material I had shown to Nintendo Prime as well.

Prime has already come forward, calling the proof compelling. Maybe after Nate the Hate recovers and feels better, he’ll be able to confirm it as well.

But please don’t come asking in DMs about it. It’s private and again I’ve only shown it in confidence to Prime and Nate.

Hope you all have a brilliant Wednesday

 

[linkwashere]

A TTYD remaster/remake mainly appeals to the fans of the original game. They are changing the bare minimum about its identity (even if the game would help from bigger structure changes).

 

[Linkstrikesback]

A TTYD remaster/remake mainly appeals to the fans of the original game. They are changing the bare minimum about its identity (even if the game would help from bigger structure changes).

They're going to change a bunch visually if this is real, because 'just the thing from before upscaled' isn't how Nintendo has done any of the full retail remakes of n64 and GameCube games, and they've done a ton of them at this point

And in any case, there's not really any point harshly limiting sales potential by only appealing to that audience when the series has the ability to do much better sales wise than that.

(Going to be a real mess on social media if/when this sells less than origami king)

 

[linkwashere]

They're going to change a bunch visually if this is real, because 'just the thing from before upscaled' isn't how Nintendo has done any of the full retail remakes of n64 and GameCube games, and they've done a ton of them at this point

And in any case, there's not really any point harshly limiting sales potential by only appealing to that audience when the series has the ability to do much better sales wise than that.

(Going to be a real mess on social media if/when this sells less than origami king)

Metroid Prime changed a lot visually but its identity stayed the same. I expect the same in this case. Don't see them changing character designs as suggested here. With "the bare minimun" I wasn't implying a lack of effort, just a respect for the original work.

 

[entut1]

Spoiler

Admiral Bobbery over Bobby and you can't change my mind

Spoiler

Bobbery has his own merits, as a sailor who feels guilty and unable to go at sea for not being there when his wife left the world, but his main arc is very short and then he just sticks around for the ride. Despite having way less design changes to the standard Bob-omb aesthetic than Bobbery, Bobby is a stronger character, his dream of achieving something greater and sacrifice has much more impact on the overall journey and the lead characters. He's one of the main driving forces for Olivia's arc going forward, and manages to disturb Mario's emotional state to a level never seen in any previous game. it speaks to the writing talent involved at IS (specifically, Taro Kudo, who kept upping his writing game from Sticker Star onwards after the mandates related to the IP were enforced) that they managed, even with tons of design restrictions, to make a character this memorable

 

[Cheesehead302]

This prospect is exciting to me purely because it's them acknowledging this game, not really for the remaster itself. This is a rare instance of a game where the visuals haven't aged, and playing it on Dolphin definitely suffices. It's the kind of situation where beyond some upressing I'm not sure what I'd want them to add from a visual standpoint, it's just so clean already.

 

[Brofield]

Why did I get the strangest mental whiplash from user @linkwashere having been replied to from @Linkstrikesback, both with Metroid avatars, in a discussion of Paper Mario lol

I have talked more with @NateDrake privately and shared additional material in absolute confidence. This is the material I had shown to Nintendo Prime as well.

Prime has already come forward, calling the proof compelling. Maybe after Nate the Hate recovers and feels better, he’ll be able to confirm it as well.

But please don’t come asking in DMs about it. It’s private and again I’ve only shown it in confidence to Prime and Nate.

Hope you all have a brilliant Wednesday

When you said "coming soon" earlier, if you mean there's a strong likelihood this is part of the H2 2023 lineup I'd be wildly ecstatic. I think though that's more eagerness to have any kind of news past July because I don't want a repeat of the bullshit gap month after PM:TOK came out where we didn't know anything haha

Spoiler

Bobbery has his own merits, as a sailor who feels guilty and unable to go at sea for not being there when his wife left the world, but his main arc is very short and then he just sticks around for the ride. Despite having way less design changes to the standard Bob-omb aesthetic than Bobbery, Bobby is a stronger character, his dream of achieving something greater and sacrifice has much more impact on the overall journey and the lead characters. He's one of the main driving forces for Olivia's arc going forward, and manages to disturb Mario's emotional state to a level never seen in any previous game. it speaks to the writing talent involved at IS (specifically, Taro Kudo, who kept upping his writing game from Sticker Star onwards after the mandates related to the IP were enforced) that they managed, even with tons of design restrictions, to make a character this memorable

Spoiler

Well, when I said you can't change my mind I mean I'm blinded by nostalgia simply because Bobbery's design is way better than Bobby (and also Bobby's sacrifice reasoning definitely slipped my mind ) But this is exactly why I lament Paper Mario; it already had great writing to start but we could have even better story beats along with great character design as opposed to subpar that otherwise is a blotch on the narrative that weighs down on the overall package

 

[ZephyrPhoenix]

I have talked more with @NateDrake privately and shared additional material in absolute confidence. This is the material I had shown to Nintendo Prime as well.

Prime has already come forward, calling the proof compelling. Maybe after Nate the Hate recovers and feels better, he’ll be able to confirm it as well.

But please don’t come asking in DMs about it. It’s private and again I’ve only shown it in confidence to Prime and Nate.

Hope you all have a brilliant Wednesday

One of the few times I want a rumor to be legit. Would be a great post-TOTK release since there's nothing major of note once TOTK is out :v

 

[entut1]

Spoiler

Well, when I said you can't change my mind I mean I'm blinded by nostalgia simply because Bobbery's design is way better than Bobby (and also Bobby's sacrifice reasoning definitely slipped my mind ) But this is exactly why I lament Paper Mario; it already had great writing to start but we could have even better story beats along with great character design as opposed to subpar that otherwise is a blotch on the narrative that weighs down on the overall package

Spoiler

There is certainly something interesting to be said about how bland character design can impact narrative. But in Bobby's case, it kind of works even better because he IS a simple Bob-omb that lost his fuse, he doesn't have much special but he's just this one random soldier of Bowser with no current purpose that somehow manages to instigate such a giant impact on the lead characters. You don't even see it coming at all, because he sucks at most things (he has the lowest chance of hitting an enemy with his attacks out of all the partners, he frequently gets himself in trouble or separated from the heroes, he even just decide to go sleep in a corner at one point), by the time everything special about him is revealed, all that's left is a final statement and a giant explosion and grief/anguish for the lead characters, you don't get to say goodbye, all you get to do is appreciating him in death (even the ghost that appears later on is there to push one lead character to move on, but without going the easy way of making that character see Bobby again)

 

[Chaotic Neutral]

I'm sure they'd touch the game up, but I don't see the need for an overhaul visually. The dynamics of how the graphics age here are imo not comparable to GCN games like e.g. Metroid Prime.

 

[Sunshinemario]

I have talked more with @NateDrake privately and shared additional material in absolute confidence. This is the material I had shown to Nintendo Prime as well.

Prime has already come forward, calling the proof compelling. Maybe after Nate the Hate recovers and feels better, he’ll be able to confirm it as well.

But please don’t come asking in DMs about it. It’s private and again I’ve only shown it in confidence to Prime and Nate.

Hope you all have a brilliant Wednesday

Do you have any idea what type of remaster this is?
Is this the PM Team’s next big project after TOK, or is it more likely just an upressed port cleaned up a little?

 

[totofogo]

I'm sure they'd touch the game up, but I don't see the need for an overhaul visually. The dynamics of how the graphics age here are imo not comparable to GCN games like e.g. Metroid Prime.

luckily we should probably be able to avoid a WWHD disaster since the PM art style is perfected in TOK

shudders

 

[Decoyman]

If this exists and they're not just treating this as a simple emulation upscale, I would hope they update the presentation of the game to stylistically -- not character design-wise -- be more in line with the modern Paper Marios. The game visually feels like it's one of the weakest of the series in this regard (Super Paper Mario being the only one that's worse) in terms of how much it gets out of character expression and animation since they cut so many corners by just doing animation tweening on body parts. Paper Mario 64 has somehow aged way better thanks to the comparative limitations preventing them from going the easy route.

 

[theinternetman]

Bro I spent all of last week replaying TTYD and now they announce a remake. April Fools I guess

 

[scamander]

I would have preferred a new Paper Mario entry, but if we get TTYD I hope it's a proper remake with improved level design, visuals more akin to TOK (TTYD is so drab, lol) while still keeping the atmosphere of the original intact and a complete new soundtrack (not just a new recording, a new original soundtrack). Starting with Sticker Star (even if the rest of the game was mediocre) the series started having really good music, which has peaked so far with TOK. The music in the first few games just can't compete. Character designs, writing, gameplay mechanics and story should be taken straight from the original with minimal adjustments where necessary.

 

[Brofield]

Bro I spent all of last week replaying TTYD and now they announce a remake. April Fools I guess

You never know; nothing's official until the announcement. Odds are still in your favour that we're the fools taking the bait while you've got the joy of recently experiencing the game again without having to wait