Dekuman
Starman
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I posted that half in jest, but worth remembering rumors about the 3D screen on the 3DS forced Nintendo to confirm it in a terse press statement. And it was coincidentally around March as well.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Hello. New person here. Only found this forum a few days ago and lurking since. Hopefully I'm welcome here.
You mean SuperMetalDave? Whats wrong with him?
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Extra power draw?
Edit: I could be wrong but I think recently in a digital foundry weekly discussion they said RTX was not viable on a switch pro/2 iirc
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Welcome! If you want to catch up on some of this thread specifically, you can check some stuff in the Threadmarks.
I would like to avoid piling on yet another YouTuber.
But during the NX speculation era, he was either fed some very wrong information, and chose to repeatedly double down on it even when there was plenty of counter-information, or just made some stuff up. I didn't follow the hype train in that era very closely, but what I've seen of him since is in the same vein - things that are demonstrably wrong, and seemingly wild conspiracy theories to explain why his info is wildly different from everyone else's.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
One way to think about the difference between handheld mode and docked mode is to ignore the raw power, and think of the power per pixel.
1080p is ~2 million pixels. 720p is ~1 million pixels. So if your docked mode is targeting 1080p and your handheld mode is targeting 720p then you'll need half as much performance in handheld mode. Any less than that, and you have to sacrifice effects, like RT. Any more than that, and you actually have extra power for more stuff in handheld mode.
In the case of RT specifically, there is a strong CPU component as well. Since the CPU on Switch runs at the same speed no matter which mode, this gives an extra advantage to handheld mode.
DLSS also has an interesting interaction with RT that prefers smaller scaling factors - it's a little complicated but I can explain it later if you're actually interested - but this also favors handheld.
The only reason I can think of handheld having RT weakness in handheld mode due to power draw, is if Nintendo decides to disable RT core in handheld. I think that's a bad solution, because it forces developers to change lighting solutions on the fly, and is likely to make RT unused even in docked mode
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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I'd love for a more in depth explanation! Your posts are great to read and I usually always learn something
Nintendo wouldn't have to disable the rt cores, just not use it. I don't think it's worth it since it can still be viable for some lighter rt tasks like assisting with some GI solutions or shadow testing
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
How does it make programming more difficult? They can just abstract it or use it as a decompression chip or sound chip.
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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For fun, we should make up FUD on the internet, spread it, and see how many people actually take the bait.
I’ll start: the Nintendo Switch 2 cannot toast your bread, unless it has a toaster incorporated into the system
I’ll start: the Nintendo Switch 2 cannot toast your bread, unless it has a toaster incorporated into the system
YolkFolk
Tingle
I remember when the Official UK Nintendo Magazine said they had a huge third party Wii exclusive to unveil next month and they posted a silhouette of Leon in an RE4 pose alongside it.
Everyone was hyped and I even sent a photo of the page to gonintendo which then spread around the Nintendo news sites.
Anyway, they unveiled the game the next month and it was BoomBlox! There was a huge backlash against the magazine and the editor for being misleading.
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There's an easy FUD rumor to start, especially since you could build on MVG's video:
Nintendo to cut BC from Switch 2 due to emulation problems.
;D
E: Oh, i've seen the gaming sites already took that one up.
Hmm ... oh i have a good one:
Nintendo to keep current Analogstick provider for Switch 2, Switch 2 Joy-Cons to have drift confirmed!
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
The bad news is that I haven't touched my Wii U since the switch came out =✓
Z0m3le
Bob-omb
Don't buy the backwards compatibility problem that was reignited by MVG, it's not an issue. Both PS5 and XBS consoles had to deal with games having precompiled shaders built for GCN architectures on PS4/XBO, but both were able to solve this for RDNA architectures found in PS5/XBS, thanks to some compatibility work from AMD/Sony/Microsoft, there is no reason to think that Nvidia/NIntendo can't do the same, especially because Drake is a custom part, and Ampere/Maxwell architectures share about ~3/4th of their instruction sets, and Cuda cores are partly binary compatible. Patches are still required to push higher fidelity than Switch games were programmed for, and to introduce DLSS, but if all you want to do is run dynamic resolution and maximize unlocked frame rates, Drake can offer that to Switch games without patches.
First, welcome. Don't feel bad about asking any questions, and if anyone makes you feel that way, know that they did something wrong, not you. People come in here to learn about tech, to discuss Nintendo hardware, and to geek out over a life long obsession, so try to enjoy it.
SMD64 got his source fired for internet cred. Literally. If you are really interested in why people don't really like him, if you look back to the Switch reveal, he and OJ from playeresence, watched the reveal together, OJ was so convinced that NX was going to be a traditional console powered by AMD (along with SMD64), but OJ owned up to being wrong and apologized for telling people they were wrong about literal Devkit info from Eurogamer and Emily Rogers and Nate, everyone who knew it was an Nvidia handheld/hybrid console. Meanwhile SMD got defensive, got his contact fired, and started opening his videos with "think for yourself" paranoia stuff... He also tends to just not understand tech as well as he claims to... It's fine to not understand the stuff, but to make up things and draw conclusions from that, is a bit much, for instance, I remember a video once where he saw some firmware or driver info for PCIE lanes in Switch, and concluded that that meant a console only version of Switch was coming, thinking that PCIE lanes were connecting to some sort of dedicated GPU, not understanding that Tegra X1 uses PCIE lanes for USB-C.
First, welcome. Don't feel bad about asking any questions, and if anyone makes you feel that way, know that they did something wrong, not you. People come in here to learn about tech, to discuss Nintendo hardware, and to geek out over a life long obsession, so try to enjoy it.
SMD64 got his source fired for internet cred. Literally. If you are really interested in why people don't really like him, if you look back to the Switch reveal, he and OJ from playeresence, watched the reveal together, OJ was so convinced that NX was going to be a traditional console powered by AMD (along with SMD64), but OJ owned up to being wrong and apologized for telling people they were wrong about literal Devkit info from Eurogamer and Emily Rogers and Nate, everyone who knew it was an Nvidia handheld/hybrid console. Meanwhile SMD got defensive, got his contact fired, and started opening his videos with "think for yourself" paranoia stuff... He also tends to just not understand tech as well as he claims to... It's fine to not understand the stuff, but to make up things and draw conclusions from that, is a bit much, for instance, I remember a video once where he saw some firmware or driver info for PCIE lanes in Switch, and concluded that that meant a console only version of Switch was coming, thinking that PCIE lanes were connecting to some sort of dedicated GPU, not understanding that Tegra X1 uses PCIE lanes for USB-C.
stodesign12
Bob-omb
At the end of the day, MVG just explained that BC is not an easy task, but he never confirm or deny it. And it is a very interesting topic, not everyone has deep engineering knowledge. Has he said something factually incorrect regarding hardware? Not meaning about marketing, bad press, not making sense not having it, the "Nintendo gonna Nintendo" argument or those things, but actual hardware info that he is wrong about?
I don't see the point of constantly trying to make him look as a hater or a useless click-bait youtuber.
I don't see the point of constantly trying to make him look as a hater or a useless click-bait youtuber.
Eclissi
Moblin
I will never understand the importance some people place on BC. It would be enough not to sell Switch and you can continue playing the old titles.
Sure, with a classic home console, having to take up space under the TV to play old games can be a problem... But with Switch this doesn't exist!
Sure, with a classic home console, having to take up space under the TV to play old games can be a problem... But with Switch this doesn't exist!
Link_enfant
Fashion Dreamer
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Regarding this very interesting MVG video on BC potential struggles, what solutions from his list would pretty much ensure that we get at least automatic improvements on games with dynamic res and variable framerate/framerate drops without a patch?
AxkilAvenger
Like Like
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No no see this time it’s different. Switch has thousands of games under it’s belt. Nintendo finally created an ecosystem and it needs to travel to their next console. I used to feel the same as you till I looked at the hundreds of games in my library and the hundred more I still need to buy and play. This has never ever happened on a Nintendo console. Nintendo must not lock this behind Switch.
Z0m3le
Bob-omb
It's a click-baity video, that plays off of people's anxieties (which I don't think is intentional, however he has a history of trolling people on twitter), he also paints the situation as unique to the Switch, but literally both PS4 and XBO uses precompiled shaders in big titles, including Sony first party games. PS5 and XBS were able to engineer compatibility into the hardware, this was also the solution Nintendo went with with Wii U according to Iwata asks when talking about backwards compatibility. MVG doesn't even actually give this as an option, and also dismisses the idea that "Switch 2" would be powerful enough to simply emulate Switch, like Steam Deck does, even though T239 is a more powerful SoC than the one used in Steam Deck. There are other incorrect or misrepresented information in his video, like NVN2... It's just NVN, there is no "2", and to say there is no link to new Nintendo hardware, and that it is just speculation is also clearly wrong. NVN itself was announced the same day as the Switch, as a Nvidia custom API for Switch hardware. It's only used to create Switch software, and I'm not even sure you can get legal access to it without a Nintendo dev license... Furthermore, the only hardware it is built around is T210 (TX1/Erista), T214 (TX1+/Mariko), and T239 (Drake).
Just a lot of public and known information is dismissed by him, so it's a bad video IMO, because he either knows the information and dismisses it, or he doesn't research the information, and only makes the problem seem more difficult than it is. Trust me, if your 3-4 year old Smart phone can play Switch games, Drake isn't going to have a problem in software emulation, and Nvidia/Nintendo have the ability to hardware emulate Maxwell shaders if needed.
1. Software emulation is one way.
2. Making Drake shader compatible with Maxwell like PS5 and XBS (RDNA architecture) do with GCN. (Didn't mention this)
3. Putting 2 Maxwell SM inside the system and allowing higher clocks/access to faster ram/CPU. (He mentioned putting an entire TX1, but you only need maxwell GPU cores to address this, and they are tiny, around ~300M/Tre.)
4. Placing the entire TX1 SoC inside Drake (mentioned this one).
5. Throwing away Drake, and just allowing Mariko to run 50% faster. (Doesn't fit any of the rumors about DLSS/4K)
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Booster Pass 2.
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I just kinda find the idea that in 2014 they started talking to Nvidia about their future platforms, started talking to shareholders about having a shared console ecosystem, and decided on the Switch, yet somehow didn't have the foresight to think about the platform after Switch and how it could remain compatible with that ecosystem ridiculous.
The idea that this is something they suddenly have to "deal with" rather than part of their plan from the beginning is imo silly.
The idea that this is something they suddenly have to "deal with" rather than part of their plan from the beginning is imo silly.
Yea, if having part of the driver stack in every piece of software really was shooting themselves in the foot in regards to BC, they wouldnt have done it in the first place imo.
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I remember all of this. Dave did, eventually, own up to NX mistakes, and yes he doesn’t understand hardware as much as he thinks he does. He even issued a public apology to Emily. But the way he was so adamant back then was a bad look made worse when he was wrong. And outing his source over the whole thing was really bad form. He did have an actual legit source and it probably pertained to something Nintendo played around with but never intended to release. There are tons of experimental hardware that never sees the light of day.
Having kept friendly with Dave as a fellow YouTuber over the years, he’s not as bad as he was back then today. He’s more careful to clarify opinions versus facts. So he did grow and learn from it. But it doesn’t change what happened or some early poor explanations of how hardware works. That being said he wasn’t what this was all about anyways.
Dave is a nice guy underneath it all. But like many others there is some stubbornness. Stubbornness is one my own personal weaknesses.
Smash Kirby
Bob-omb
To me it seemed like he was pushing for option 5 being more likely than the other options. He seems to not expect any generational leap at this point for the Switch. "Prepare for Disappointment" is something he seems to holding onto as a motto. I don't think he has any belief that T239 will actually be used for Switch hardware.
Z0m3le
Bob-omb
I use to watch his videos way back in the Wii U days, there wasn't many Nintendo youtubers that dealt with tech, it's good that he is moving in the right direction, I might look at his content again in the future. I admittedly haven't watched a video of his in a few years at least.
I think a certain amount of stubbornness just comes with being a youtuber, I've made a few videos and I might continue, but I more want to focus on explaining tech to Nintendo fans, rather than just spread rumors or talk about Nintendo news, my own niche to offer the community. It's a lot of work to do what you do, and you do a great job, I appreciate how you do try to explain the rumors. Keep the positivity, Nintendo fans don't always get that from our youtubers, but I feel like we have plenty of trolls, so thanks for your content.
You are 100% right sadly, it's a bit disappointing because he has the ear of most major Nintendo Youtubers, and basically advised them to ignore NVN in the Nvidia hack, simply because it can be used in Windows (without clarifying it is only used in windows to create Switch software and specifically is to be used with TX1 or Drake). It's actually the biggest WTF take I've seen from any Youtuber with knowledge about Nintendo's SDKs... I mean he has had to seen NVN, and how it specifically is designed around Switch hardware, not to mention Nvidia's public announcement of it as a custom API to be used for Nintendo Switch, Nvidia even has it's own Windows API separate from NVN...
He's still on the "t239 doesn't have to be for Nintendo", which, while isn't wrong, requires some gold medal mental gymnastics to justify in wake of the evidence
Hairway to Steven
Bob-omb
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So does anyone actually believe this thing is coming later than 2024?
I think releasing it any later than that would be a huge mistake. Especially if it's just an iterative upgrade with PS4 Pro levels of power.
I think releasing it any later than that would be a huge mistake. Especially if it's just an iterative upgrade with PS4 Pro levels of power.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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It's like Nintendo is running an endurance race and there are YouTubers going 'Yeah, they're out in front now, but what happens when they have to change tires.'
Like, it's an obvious, known concern that they have been aware of for a very long time. Let's give them maybe a little credit.
Z0m3le
Bob-omb
T239 was completed on August 2022, for it to go into initial production in late 2024 is a non-starter, I don't think there is any chip that was completed and didn't end up in a product within the first 12 months, this is mainly because, you create the chip with some cost cutting measures attributed to the technology at the time it is designed, thus a chip designed in 2022, will take advantage of cost cutting measures for 2022, even in 2023 or 2024, when newer cost cutting technology might exist, redesigning the chip has a cost, so you want to produce the chip in the first 6 to 12 months. Of course fab processes might become cheaper overtime, the chip would still be cheaper to design in 2024 if you are planning to start production in 2024, even on the same process node.
pelusilla6
Bob-omb
Nobody expected the Switch success, perhaps they would have thought at the time that the generation after the Switch would be totally different again.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Yeah people make it sound like Nintendo or other companies are just winging it as they go. Like these companies didn’t sit down yearssssss ago and had a road map planned out for the next decade.
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They explicitly said to shareholders many times that this was not going to be the case. Look at their fy briefings in 2014-2016.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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pelusilla6
Bob-omb
Is this from 2014?...I don't believe this is true
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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No, but if their strategy didn't accommodate continuation of their platform I don't think they would have underscored it like this
They depicted Nintendo Switch and an unnamed successor in a circle together with the continuation of Nintendo Account and "value-added services." To me, that, combined with the press about NVIDIA and Nintendo's ten year partnership, suggests that a direct successor was always intended.
edit: err uh twenty years wow
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Before the Switch even released Jensen Huang came out saying he expected NVidia's relationship with Nintendo to last twenty years.
Z0m3le
Bob-omb
Iwata said NX would start an account based platform, and that many different hardware configurations would run the same games, even completely different SoCs, this is the famous comparison to iOS and Android, which was a 2014 FY briefing.
It's also worth noting that Wii had Gamecube BC, even though they had to use an expensive specialized disc drive that could take both the gamecube mini discs and Wii DVDs.
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Damn, that is two Microsoft Call of Duty on Switch deals!
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
There's too much projection of individual anxiety onto multi million dollar companies with engineering teams having decades of experience. Like if I as a software dev find it difficult to develop a layer for binary shader compatibility, then it surely must be this monumental task for Nintendo. (Not to understate the problem - it isn't trivial, but I've had to deal with non trivial engineering challenges with the help of my team). And as we all know Nintendo is this wacky abstract entity who makes cardboard pianos and ice cube waggle for the hell of it, and not an integrated hardware / software dev company partnered with one of the largest GPU devs.
pelusilla6
Bob-omb
Okey okey, i accept your replies but still, a twenty years partnership doesnt mean following the same Switch-like device.
Alright, i didnt remember that
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From that chart, it doesn't matter if it's a switch or not. The account system and assumedly the services that come with them will be available on whatever is next, switch or not.
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Basically, regardless of what exact form factor it would take Nintendo explicitly laid out a plan for the long term back in that period (2014-2016), which makes the notion that this GPU incompatibility between Switch and whatever comes next is a "problem" or something that snuck up on them frankly, quite ridiculous.
They knew what they were doing when they decided how shaders would be compiled.
They knew what they were doing when they decided how shaders would be compiled.
I feel like Nintendo would follow Samsung and Apple's example and jump a few numbers.
The Nintendo Switch 10 could be that product.
Nintendo could could claim it's ten times more powerful as the current Switch. (which it would be close to or exceed that). And it would definitely host far more technically advanced games due to its higher fidelity visuals which would improve its overall 3rd party support.
10 is a win.
Nintendo Switch 10.
Releasing 10/20/23
My dream scenario btw.
The Nintendo Switch 10 could be that product.
Nintendo could could claim it's ten times more powerful as the current Switch. (which it would be close to or exceed that). And it would definitely host far more technically advanced games due to its higher fidelity visuals which would improve its overall 3rd party support.
10 is a win.
Nintendo Switch 10.
Releasing 10/20/23
My dream scenario btw.
Nintendo Systems, their joint-venture with DeNA, starts operation next month. they seem to be structured around those "value-added services". I suspect a lot of that is meant to bear fruit with the next gen system
If you go into a long term technology partnership with another company, you would take future compatibility into consideration in hardware/ software decisions for the current platform.
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