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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Hermii said:
Doubt it. The audience Nintendo is going for, couldn't care less how games are made.
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If higher resolution is one of their selling points and 4K isn‘t possible for every old game, people are gonna ask why. I think they have to give an explanation for that. Maybe they will not have a special name for it, just saying something like 4K not supported, but I guess we‘ll see. Though I do think they will talk about terms like 4K and that, I mean they called their most recent Switch OLED Model.
 
Mendinso said:
Remind me, was the specs information on the Switch through a break down, leak or did Nvidia release the information? I can't remember how we found out with the Nintendo Switch.
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According to Nintendo it's still just a custom Nvidia processor. Nvidia acknowledged it was a tegra I believe but they didn't say anything beyond that.

The actual specs leaked a few months before the thing was even announced.
 
lexony said:
If higher resolution is one of their selling points and 4K isn‘t possible for every old game, people are gonna ask why. I think they have to give an explanation for that. Maybe they will not have a special name for it, just saying something like 4K not supported, but I guess we‘ll see. Though I do think they will talk about terms like 4K and that, I mean they called their most recent Switch OLED Model.
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No console on the market does native 4K in every game and that doesn't stop them from advertising 4K graphics as a feature. Most first party titles on Switch Redacted will output at 4K thanks to DLSS.
 
Mendinso said:
Remind me, was the specs information on the Switch through a break down, leak or did Nvidia release the information? I can't remember how we found out with the Nintendo Switch.
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Digital Foundry leaked 3 months before reveal that at least devkits were using Tegra X1. When Switch was announced Nvidia refered to a chip "Nintendo Switch is powered by the performance of the custom Tegra processor. The high-efficiency scalable processor includes an NVIDIA GPU based on the same architecture as the world’s top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards." which many people thought at the time that they are reffering to Pascal and not Maxwell. Then DF came with another report that even detailed the clockspeeds. But still some people were not sold on Switch just using the basic X1 chip but when Switch released the chip was x-rayed and so X1 officially confirmed.
 
This should be the Switch 2
samsung-display-week-2022-240hz-oled-3lmp2.jpg

samsung-flex-gaming-handheld.webp


Marketable enough for nintendo
 
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lexony said:
If higher resolution is one of their selling points and 4K isn‘t possible for every old game, people are gonna ask why. I think they have to give an explanation for that. Maybe they will not have a special name for it, just saying something like 4K not supported, but I guess we‘ll see. Though I do think they will talk about terms like 4K and that, I mean they called their most recent Switch OLED Model.
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as long as the pixel resolution coming out of the device is 3840x2160, it's 4K. not even PS5 and Series X render native 4K.
 
Goodtwin said:
No console on the market does native 4K in every game and that doesn't stop them from advertising 4K graphics as a feature. Most first party titles on Switch Redacted will output at 4K thanks to DLSS.
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Honestly I think most games full stop will output 4K if they're optimised for Drake. Many older games from Switch that get updated probably won't use DLSS, but the raw power difference is gigantic, enough to push many to 4K. As Oldpuck said, if you're going to use DLSS at all, you might as well go for 4K. There's also plenty of other scaling options Devs can use.

Switch [Redacted] will be absolutely full of tricks and has the processing headroom to make use of other upscaling technologies.

It might not always be pretty, but I think it'll mostly be 4K.


ILikeFeet said:
as long as the pixel resolution coming out of the device is 3840x2160, it's 4K. not even PS5 and Series X render native 4K.
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That just isn't true, plenty of Xbox Series X games reach 4K, I'd even say most of them!
 
Pokemaniac said:
A better CPU will help, but the exacerbating factors (JIT disabled for security and seemingly some games keeping some resources tied up while in the background) are unlikely to change.
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i've always wondered if the 4th core was being used by some games which impacts performance OS/eshop perf when those specific games were suspended as the OS core would not be 100% available. Have we had confirmation that is happening?
 
Quoted by: LiC
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Dekuman said:
i've always wondered if the 4th core was being used by some games which impacts performance OS/eshop perf when those specific games were suspended as the OS core would not be 100% available. Have we had confirmation that is happening?
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It's not that the OS core is being used (directly) by the game, it's just that there are games that don't actually suspend when you go to the home menu, e.g. because of online features, so applets like the eShop have to run with reduced priority/threads. I'm not sure about the details, but that's the gist.
 
LiC said:
HAC-024 is Poké Ball Plus and PMC-001 is Pokémon Go Plus; PMC-002 is a wristband and PMC-003 is a ring or clip or something.
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Thanks!

I hope they come out with a pendant attachment for the Plus+, I don't feel like using a piece of string I have to tie and untie to it...
 
Goodtwin said:
No console on the market does native 4K in every game and that doesn't stop them from advertising 4K graphics as a feature. Most first party titles on Switch Redacted will output at 4K thanks to DLSS.
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ILikeFeet said:
as long as the pixel resolution coming out of the device is 3840x2160, it's 4K. not even PS5 and Series X render native 4K.
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Wasn‘t necessarily talking about native 4K in the context of my previous posts. I meant how they would talk about if not every game receives a next gen update.
 
lexony said:
Wasn‘t talking about native 4K in this context of my previous posts. I meant how they would talk about if not every game receives a next gen update.
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Same way any other console has.

Those with patches will be called "enhanced".

Those without will not.

Those that launch with the Drake in mind will probably use "Optimised for" or "Plays best on".

I expect the cross gen games to be more like GameBoy Color. The new console's logo and name, with an "Also plays on Nintendo Switch" icon.

I think continuing to label everything Nintendo Switch with just a label on the back saying "Plays on REDACTED and up" would be misguided, so I think they'll take the GBC route.

Speaking of which, absolutely NO seperate SKUs depending on console! Some companies MIGHT do it but Nintendo sure as hell won't. They didn't do it for 3DS enhanced DS games, or New 3DS enhanced 3DS games, or GBA enhanced GBC games, or GBC enhanced GB games. They will not do it with [Redacted] enhanced Switch games. There will be one download page, one icon, one cartridge. Anything else would be shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly, and Nintendo isn't that dumb. Especially since single-SKU cross gen games is what they have ALWAYS done where backwards compatibility allowed for it.
 
YolkFolk said:
Prime 4 will be cross gen imo.

When we see it, it’ll be running on Switch 2.
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I think that's true for most of the Nintendo DLC launching later, too. The amount of undated major DLC is ridiculous, and there's not much reason for them not to have a date attached. Call me a little crazy but I think the reason we haven't seen the Indigo Disk, Side Order, or Prime 4 actually running on Switch, is because they want to show it off on [REDACTED] first.
 
Concernt said:
720p on Switch is exactly what I was referring to. There's a reason 1080p isn't used, and it's a technical reason.
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Any idea what that could be? On PC emulators I've seen for systems from the last ~25 years, changing the render resolution has been a pretty minor deal, and not much extra cost over the initial big step of getting the CPU and GPU emulated in the first place. N64 emulation is the kind of thing I wouldn't be surprised if an NVIDIA Shield could do at 4K. Oh, there it is.
Grubb said:
It’s still on the table that we get something Switch, not Pro, maybe even not necessarily Switch 2, maybe something in between that that is definitely an actually upgrade in terms of hardware, but in terms of the way that Nintendo positions it, it feels like they could try to straddle the line a little bit and do like a Super Switch that continues the generation, in a way that is more significant than the Game Boy Color - but even more significant than that.
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So basically he's hearing they'll do exactly the same thing as Xbox Series or PlayStation 5 but for some reason pretend their device isn't as new or special.
lexony said:
If higher resolution is one of their selling points and 4K isn‘t possible for every old game, people are gonna ask why. I think they have to give an explanation for that.
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I don't think this is going to be any more a problem than Game Boy Color playing old games with very crude palettes, or 3DS playing DS games entirely flat.
 
LukasManak22 said:
Remember how people thought that Jensen Huang would come up on stage in Switch Presentation 2017 and he would talk about specs? Good times lol. We all know that Nintendo will never talk about specs again, it will once again be labeled as a "Nvidia Custom Tegra processor" and that's it.
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I don’t think this actually happened, this is probably revisionist history of the events. But I wasn’t there so I can’t say for certain.
 
Concernt said:
I think that's true for most of the Nintendo DLC launching later, too. The amount of undated major DLC is ridiculous, and there's not much reason for them not to have a date attached. Call me a little crazy but I think the reason we haven't seen the Indigo Disk, Side Order, or Prime 4 actually running on Switch, is because they want to show it off on [REDACTED] first.
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I do not think they want to show off any Game Freak game on the Switch 2.

That's a "do not show under any circumstances until we have shown Nintendo first-party games that push visual fidelity and then only show briefly."

I'm also quite doubtful Game Freak will put in very many resources to doing anything to fix the all-time bad lighting of the SV engine on a cross-gen DLC considering Game Freak simply refuses to fix the massive issue of the game logic being tied to the framerate.

To show off the improvement of SV also requires a side-by-side that would make Game Freak look terrible, lol

"Look how the animations for NPCs further than 5 feet away run at 6 FPS on Switch, but run at 30 FPS on Switch 2!" is something that would just make Game Freak look unable to program.
 
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Didn't Sabi get the E3 Direct early, by unscrupulous efforts, before leaking the entire thing 100%? The same thing likely happened, with Pokémon Presents.

This "leak" is hilarious. No proof? No truth.
 
Concernt said:
Nintendo Switch (V2) seems to already be disappearing. The Grey SKU has been delisted from Nintendo UK and IE.
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I'm guessing it's just being replaced by the Mario bundle. Presumably from this point forward all V2 consoles will include a bundled game, with the Mario bundle being the first of them.
 
Thraktor said:
I'm guessing it's just being replaced by the Mario bundle. Presumably from this point forward all V2 consoles will include a bundled game, with the Mario bundle being the first of them.
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Isn't the Mario bundle GameStop exclusive, and so, wouldn't appear on the Nintendo website? Or am I mistaken?
 
Concernt said:
Isn't the Mario bundle GameStop exclusive, and so, wouldn't appear on the Nintendo website? Or am I mistaken?
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According to Nintendo's website, it'll be available "at the My Nintendo Store and select retailers." You can find it on Nintendo's website (in the US at least) here, where it seemingly has indeed replaced the Gray color. Looking around briefly, I also found it on Best Buy's website.
 
Dekuman said:
Assuming we have an 8 Core A78 set-up, do we expect 1 core to be reserve for OS/networking and background tasks? Would retaining 4 A57s for OS and BC make sense? What's the best guess based on the nvidia hack?
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It will not retain legacy cores, it would not constitute a considerable benefit and would mean squeezing the most out of it would incur addtional complexity and much higher power consumption. We KNOW it doesn't have "legacy cores", anyway, thanks to said leak.

It's almost certainly an 8 core, single cluster, of A78C. Not multithreaded, so it can't do the "Half a core to OS, half a core to game" thing.

We can't say for certain how much the OS and Applets will use, I would suspect 1 core, since 1 Drake core is so much more powerful than 1 TX1 core. That leaves 7 cores for games, which is comparable to other consoles even if it lacks multithreading.

For BC mode, now, I'm NOT a professional programmer, I can't write assembly, I don't study these things, but what I would ASSUME would be 3 cores used for the "game", like how a virtual machine can be assigned specific cores and memory limits, would with the other cores doing misc. tasks to help with the translation/virtualisation. 7 cores of A78C should not have ANY problems virtualising an environment where software compiled for just 3 A57 cores can run.

While it isn't quite as simple as "it's just ARM at the end of the day"; it's also... just ARM at the end of the day, and newer ARM cores are broadly compatible, almost entirely, with older ARM cores.
 
Dekuman said:
Assuming we have an 8 Core A78 set-up, do we expect 1 core to be reserve for OS/networking and background tasks? Would retaining 4 A57s for OS and BC make sense? What's the best guess based on the nvidia hack?
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There is absolutely zero value in retaining a57 cores. The os wouldn't (and shouldn't) be designed to require that.
 
Do we have any product designers on this forum? I'm wondering whether the next console will be smaller or larger than the Switch, or even the same size. Though I doubt the latter, as changing the size and/or form factor is a good way of physically differentiating a product. Do we have any information to estimate some physical dimensions?
 
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Dekuman said:
Would retaining 4 A57s for OS and BC make sense?
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No. since Armv8.2-A, which the Cortex-A78 supports, is backwards compatible with Armv8-A, which the Cortex-A57 supports. (The Cortex-A78C, which is likely used in T239 (Drake) based on one of Nvidia's Linux commits mentioning the T239 having "...eight [CPU] cores in a single cluster", and the Cortex-A78C is the only CPU in the Cortex-A78 family that supports up to 8 CPU cores per cluster, with the Cortex-A78 and the Cortex-A78AE only supporting up to 4 CPU cores per cluster, adds support for Armv8.6-A, which Arm says has been developed with backwards compatibility in mind.)
 
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