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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

That is literally the opposite of what I said.

Do you get a kick out of being smug about being wrong?

The Switch has an order of magnitude better GPU than the PS3. Sure the CELL architecture was. Interesting. But the PS3 is still way behind the Switch.

The Switch does not have a GPU that is an order of magnitude better than the PS3. Especially in handheld mode. What on earth? The Switch is basically in the middle of the PS3 and the PS4 give or take when you factor everything in. You do not get a Doom Eternal running on the PS3 but the Switch even in docked mode is not close to the PS4 let alone in handheld mode.

The Switch benefits from a much more modern architecture than 7th gen consoles and more RAM. But effectively the typs of visuals it put out do not in any way shape or form suggest a GPU 10x as strong.
 
I got the impression that was an intentional decision to keep the sound from being obscured by other stuff.
yea, having a sound that drowns out others in order better indicate its presence would be better from a usability standpoint. maybe have it for rare pokemon cries or something
This is reusing results already calculated for lighting, for audio right? My immediate thought is, this should be repurposing calculations already done, and should provide a very nice feature, for a very nice cost.
aye, could be one of the big advancements in audio that we've been looking for, among other improvements
 
The Switch does not have a GPU that is an order of magnitude better than the PS3. Especially in handheld mode. What on earth? The Switch is basically in the middle of the PS3 and the PS4 give or take when you factor everything in. You do not get a Doom Eternal running on the PS3 but the Switch even in docked mode is not close to the PS4 let alone in handheld mode.

The Switch benefits from a much more modern architecture than 7th gen consoles and more RAM. But effectively the typs of visuals it put out do not in any way shape or form suggest a GPU 10x as strong.
It has over 10 times more RAM. And nearly 10 times more shader cores, at 256 vs 26.

"More than ten times more of X and nearly ten times more of Y", to me, would have me pretty confidently stating the overall package is an order of magnitude (10*) better.

Because I'm right. Because it is.
 
The Switch does not have a GPU that is an order of magnitude better than the PS3. Especially in handheld mode. What on earth? The Switch is basically in the middle of the PS3 and the PS4 give or take when you factor everything in. You do not get a Doom Eternal running on the PS3 but the Switch even in docked mode is not close to the PS4 let alone in handheld mode.

The Switch benefits from a much more modern architecture than 7th gen consoles and more RAM. But effectively the typs of visuals it put out do not in any way shape or form suggest a GPU 10x as strong.
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Yes, I'm being generous to R&C. It doesn't matter. There is no crossing that void.
 
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I personally hardly doubt Nintendo will support raytracing on the next Switch hardware. Looking at the history of Nintendo's lack of focus on visuals for decades now, I would be surprised if the next system even has HDR support. 4K? Maybe via upscaling but raytracing just seems like something we won't see on a Nintendo system for another 10+ years.

I also realistically can't see the (likely cut down) next gen Switch GPU even supporting raytracing in any major capacity. Maybe shadows or something. Like the new hardware itself may support but I think Nintendo just won't get much or any use out of it at all. Third parties maybe though.

People expecting BOTW 2 to have full on raytracing will be soarly disappointed. Honestly I think 4K/30 or 2K/60 without raytracing is likely the best case scenario for games on the Switch Pro/2.

If any hardware guys think I am wrong, I would love to hear your thoughts and insights in case I missed anything. :)
Steam Deck supports tray tracing and its a 1-1.6 Tflops gaming handheld. It's 2.5x weaker than the X box Series S (literally a handheld series s in many regards, minus half the CPU)
The Switch does not have a GPU that is an order of magnitude better than the PS3. Especially in handheld mode. What on earth? The Switch is basically in the middle of the PS3 and the PS4 give or take when you factor everything in. You do not get a Doom Eternal running on the PS3 but the Switch even in docked mode is not close to the PS4 let alone in handheld mode.

The Switch benefits from a much more modern architecture than 7th gen consoles and more RAM. But effectively the typs of visuals it put out do not in any way shape or form suggest a GPU 10x as strong.
After counting tx1 architecture and taking advantage of mixed precision, the switch is about 3-3.5x weaker than PS4 in GPU (ball park estimate), in docked mode.
 
Steam Deck supports tray tracing and its a 1-1.6 Tflops gaming handheld. It's 2.5x weaker than the X box Series S (literally a handheld series s in many regards, minus half the CPU)

After counting tx1 architecture and taking advantage of mixed precision, the switch is about 3-3.5x weaker than PS4 in GPU (ball park estimate), in docked mode.

roughly 1/3rd is where I see switch in relation to the original Xbox 1.
 
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Steam Deck supports tray tracing and its a 1-1.6 Tflops gaming handheld. It's 2.5x weaker than the X box Series S (literally a handheld series s in many regards, minus half the CPU)

After counting tx1 architecture and taking advantage of mixed precision, the switch is about 3-3.5x weaker than PS4 in GPU (ball park estimate), in docked mode.

Yes, a GPU 3 to 3.5 weaker is pretty damn significant lol. I dont think it's ever been very controversial that the Switch GPU was about that range in docked mode and abou 6x weaker in handheld mode (since most games are not using the high performance profile).

The CPU performance is also notably below the PS4 due to core count and clocks. The ram and also at about 60% of the PS4. I would not consider any of these specs even considering architectural advantages of Maxwell to be a portable PS4.
 
Steam Deck supports tray tracing and its a 1-1.6 Tflops gaming handheld. It's 2.5x weaker than the X box Series S (literally a handheld series s in many regards, minus half the CPU)

After counting architecture, the switch is about 3-3.5x weaker than PS4 in GPU, in docked mode.

Raytracing on Steam Deck is entirely unusable even in 720p unless you like slideshows. I don't understand why so many people here are expecting full on raytraced Nintendo games on the new hardware when the beefy PS5/XSX struggles hard with raytracing with most ports being stripped of most raytracing features (IE; Cyberpunk, Far Cry 6, etc). While the new hardware will likely support some form of raytracing to be used in extremely limited scenarios, it's something that Nintendo will likely find "not worth it" when adding something as simple as raytraced shadows can cut performance by a large amount without any major visual gain. If I was a developer working on mobile hardware, I wouldn't bother with such features that are that GPU expensive. Nintendo could create a very simple style game and maybe get some limited form of raytracing working but that's likely it. Anyone here expecting to play the next Zelda or Metroid Prime 4 with full fledge raytracing will be very disappointed.
 
Switch vs. PS3/360 comparisons I feel are a little hamstrung by different resolution targets which impacts how much power Switch has to invest just to run those games at 2.25x the resolution (1080p vs 720p). Many 60 FPS patches lower docked resolution to 720p e.g. Assassin's Creed Black Flag. There are also more straightforward comparisons like the Portal games which went from 720/30 to 1080/60. When I do look at Switch games with a 720p docked res target like the Xenoblade series, I'm not familiar with any PS3/360 open-area games that match that level of detail.

Well, it should be clear already that Switch is more capable than those systems. Expectations about Switch performance feel like a meme at this point. Like almost every new bit of Switch footage for the last 4 years has been scrutinized, either seriously as a joke, as 'Switch Pro' footage. If you're starting to think that every Switch game looks too good for Switch, then what does that say? lmao

I don't understand why so many people here are expecting full on raytraced Nintendo games on the new hardware when the beefy PS5/XSX struggles hard with raytracing with most ports being stripped of most raytracing features (IE; Cyberpunk, Far Cry 6, etc). While the new hardware will likely support some form of raytracing to be used in extremely limited scenarios, it's something that Nintendo will likely find "not worth it" when adding something as simple as raytraced shadows can cut performance by a large amount without any major visual gain.
DLSS is one answer.
 
Yes, a GPU 3 to 3.5 weaker is pretty damn significant lol. I dont think it's ever been very controversial that the Switch GPU was about that range in docked mode and abou 6x weaker in handheld mode (since most games are not using the high performance profile).

The CPU performance is also notably below the PS4 due to core count and clocks. The ram and also at about 60% of the PS4. I would not consider any of these specs even considering architectural advantages of Maxwell to be a portable PS4.
The Switch GPU is easily 3x more performant than the Wii U's GPU. It doesn't always show in ports because the bandwidth increase from Wii u to switch was only 2x... and Wii u has some cache where switch doesn't.

I didn't even compare PS3 to Switch, because PS3 is weaker than Wii U.
 
Raytracing on Steam Deck is entirely unusable even in 720p unless you like slideshows. I don't understand why so many people here are expecting full on raytraced Nintendo games on the new hardware when the beefy PS5/XSX struggles hard with raytracing with most ports being stripped of most raytracing features (IE; Cyberpunk, Far Cry 6, etc). While the new hardware will likely support some form of raytracing to be used in extremely limited scenarios, it's something that Nintendo will likely find "not worth it" when adding something as simple as raytraced shadows can cut performance by a large amount without any major visual gain. If I was a developer working on mobile hardware, I wouldn't bother with such features that are that GPU expensive. Nintendo could create a very simple style game and maybe get some limited form of raytracing working but that's likely it. Anyone here expecting to play the next Zelda or Metroid Prime 4 with full fledge raytracing will be very disappointed.
I don't think anybody at all is talking about full desktop PC level raytracing. But raytracing itself is just a feature of lighting that can run on a huge power range of devices, Nintendo can absolutely utilize ray tracing for Drake games since it quite literally has access to RT cores (and even if it didn't, you can do raytracing without dedicated hardware).

I think you're misunderstanding the discussion here, raytracing is raytracing. When we talk about raytracing on Drake we're fully aware it will not be at the same level as on PS5.
 
The Switch GPU is easily 3x more performant than the Wii U's GPU. It doesn't always show in ports because the bandwidth increase from Wii u to switch was only 2x... and Wii u has some cache where switch doesn't.

I didn't even compare PS3 to Switch, because PS3 is weaker than Wii U.

The contention which you replied to me over is the Switch is a portable PS4. Not that the Switch isn't stronger than the PS3. Obviously the Switch in docked mode is way stronger than the PS3 and in portable mode still a good deal above it. But the Switch being a portable PS4 is not accurate.

Dunno why we are even bringing up the WiiU. It is obviouslt much less performant the the Switch.
 
Yes, a GPU 3 to 3.5 weaker is pretty damn significant lol. I dont think it's ever been very controversial that the Switch GPU was about that range in docked mode and abou 6x weaker in handheld mode (since most games are not using the high performance profile).

The CPU performance is also notably below the PS4 due to core count and clocks. The ram and also at about 60% of the PS4. I would not consider any of these specs even considering architectural advantages of Maxwell to be a portable PS4.

It's a very very clear order of magnitude over 26 pixel shaders, and in order execution cpu.

Buddy there is a reason the switch can get actual ports of PS4 games.

There is a reason screenshots of switch games obliterate ps3 games. And it gets much much worse for the ps3 when in motion.

I don't know why you are so strongly clinging to this idea, but it's time to let the bad marketing go. The ps360 were nowhere near as powerful as they were implied to be in their time, and it's time to stop letting that misinform and mislead modern times.
 
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I don't think anybody at all is talking about full desktop PC level raytracing. But raytracing itself is just a feature of lighting that can run on a huge power range of devices, Nintendo can absolutely utilize ray tracing for Drake games since it quite literally has access to RT cores (and even if it didn't, you can do raytracing without dedicated hardware).

I think you're misunderstanding the discussion here, raytracing is raytracing. When we talk about raytracing on Drake we're fully aware it will not be at the same level as on PS5.

Alright that's fair and yes from a technical possibility, NIntendo's teams will definitely know how to implement the techniques. Just hoping the new hardware is decent upgrade over what we have today and that it's not many years out still. I'm guessing next Spring so I'm hoping it won't be further off then that.
 
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The contention which you replied to me over is the Switch is a portable PS4. Not that the Switch isn't stronger than the PS3. Obviously the Switch in docked mode is way stronger than the PS3 and in portable mode still a good deal above it. But the Switch being a portable PS4 is not accurate.

Dunno why we are even bringing up the WiiU. It is obviouslt much less performant the the Switch.
The Switch hardware is far, far closer to PS4 than PS3. It doesn't match the raw power of PS4, but the feature set and how it broadly works are just much closer to that than the exotic dinosaur that is the PS3 in comparison.

Similarly, Drake is going to be much more of a less powerful PS5/XS than a portable PS4/X1.
 
Raytracing on Steam Deck is entirely unusable even in 720p unless you like slideshows. I don't understand why so many people here are expecting full on raytraced Nintendo games on the new hardware when the beefy PS5/XSX struggles hard with raytracing with most ports being stripped of most raytracing features (IE; Cyberpunk, Far Cry 6, etc). While the new hardware will likely support some form of raytracing to be used in extremely limited scenarios, it's something that Nintendo will likely find "not worth it" when adding something as simple as raytraced shadows can cut performance by a large amount without any major visual gain. If I was a developer working on mobile hardware, I wouldn't bother with such features that are that GPU expensive. Nintendo could create a very simple style game and maybe get some limited form of raytracing working but that's likely it. Anyone here expecting to play the next Zelda or Metroid Prime 4 with full fledge raytracing will be very disappointed.
because a lot of those games aren't made with RT. it's bolted on after the fact. games that take RT into account at the start of development tend to run a hell of a lot better. hell, the fact there's even a lot of RT games that run well on consoles is a testament to the hardware being adequate enough as it is (unless you're a 60fps or bust kinda guy, but there's still the Insomniac games and Metro Exodus Enhanced).

RT is performant enough as long as you aren't expecting pixar shit or some "mind blown" levels of differences. as I said before, RT is best for fixing the small things because it's replacing techniques that aren't good at small things. with RT the ceiling for fidelity is raised, but the floor is relatively the same
 
Raytracing on Steam Deck is entirely unusable even in 720p unless you like slideshows. I don't understand why so many people here are expecting full on raytraced Nintendo games on the new hardware when the beefy PS5/XSX struggles hard with raytracing with most ports being stripped of most raytracing features (IE; Cyberpunk, Far Cry 6, etc). While the new hardware will likely support some form of raytracing to be used in extremely limited scenarios, it's something that Nintendo will likely find "not worth it" when adding something as simple as raytraced shadows can cut performance by a large amount without any major visual gain. If I was a developer working on mobile hardware, I wouldn't bother with such features that are that GPU expensive. Nintendo could create a very simple style game and maybe get some limited form of raytracing working but that's likely it. Anyone here expecting to play the next Zelda or Metroid Prime 4 with full fledge raytracing will be very disappointed.

Yeah, the RT expectations from a few are a bit over the top.
 
Yeah, the RT expectations from a few are a bit over the top.

Or people don't understand what ray tracing cores are, and are comparing it to hardware that does not have hardware accelerated ray tracing, and must inefficiently perform it via software, and thus wastes a lot of performance on ray tracing.

Also speaking of what hardware accelerated ray tracing can do:
 
This is reusing results already calculated for lighting, for audio right? My immediate thought is, this should be repurposing calculations already done, and should provide a very nice feature, for a very nice cost.
If you remember Forza Horizon 5 uses RT for Audio, this could probably be good for clawing back CPU, any extra bit, and making wider use of RT besides light.

Can also use those cores for other things too. :)
 
If you remember Forza Horizon 5 uses RT for Audio, this could probably be good for clawing back CPU, any extra bit, and making wider use of RT besides light.

Can also use those cores for other things too. :)

Sure don't, not much into racers, (except wacky arcade racers, even then my saturation point is low). But it's definitely something I hope to seez er, hear, more of. Would love this for the auditory immersion in big world adventure game.

Although.... I hope it translates well through/ they consider headphones, I haven't had a surround sound system in sometime.
 
Idk who comes on here to argue, but I'm not here for that. Project all you want. Cheers.
If you're not here to argue, why did you choose to lie in order to have an argument?

Seriously. The Switch just IS closer to the PS4 than the PS3. There isn't an argument to be had. Again, unless one chooses to be dishonest.
 
Sure don't, not much into racers, (except wacky arcade racers, even then my saturation point is low). But it's definitely something I hope to seez er, hear, more of. Would love this for the auditory immersion in big world adventure game.

Although.... I hope it translates well through/ they consider headphones, I haven't had a surround sound system in sometime.
It does! Virtual surround sound for headphones has quite broad support in games, especially on Xbox. Switch games can do it too, though there isn't a system setting for it (there was one on 3DS, however.).
 
If you're not here to argue, why did you choose to lie in order to have an argument?

Seriously. The Switch just IS closer to the PS4 than the PS3. There isn't an argument to be had. Again, unless one chooses to be dishonest.
You're an interesting one. You're also the only one trying to force this argument/conversation/topic, and everyone replying seems to think you are the one who is wrong.

If you reply, I won't read it. Thanks.
 
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I don't understand why so many people here are expecting full on raytraced Nintendo games on the new hardware when the beefy PS5/XSX struggles hard with raytracing with most ports being stripped of most raytracing features (IE; Cyberpunk, Far Cry 6, etc)
They struggle because their RT implementation is straight up garbage. That has nothing to do with Drake or nvidia, that has all to do with AMD and the work effort between Sony and Microsoft. AMD’s PC Cards get better Ray Tracing because they have that gargantuan cache to help. Consoles straight up lack this.

And this is misrepresenting what the consensus even is with regards to RT and Nintendo games. People are expecting RT usage in any facet to be used in those games, not that the games will be use full ray tracing. It’s so difficult to

RTAO is still RT. RTGI is still RT. RT Reflections is still RT (no one really expects this on consoles widespread!). RT Audio is still RT. RT motion blur is still RT. Etc., etc., etc.,

RT manifests itself in different forms.


No one is expecting something stellar and above the PS5/XBSX, it relative to what it is it will have better ray tracing usage than the other consoles.
 
The Switch hardware is far, far closer to PS4 than PS3. It doesn't match the raw power of PS4, but the feature set and how it broadly works are just much closer to that than the exotic dinosaur that is the PS3 in comparison.

Similarly, Drake is going to be much more of a less powerful PS5/XS than a portable PS4/X1.

The Switch hardware is far more modern than the 7th gen consoles. Dunno how many that can be said. The Switch however is not a portable PS4. While feature set is extremely important in porting due to supporting modern pipelines and work flows the power component is obviously a major fact and in portable mode the Switch is obviously way behind the PS4. Again. Not sure how this is still controversial 6 years later. The Switch is basically half way between the PS3 and the PS4 in terms of raw power when you factor everything in.

Drake will be the same between a PS4 and PS5 docked. It will be well above a PS4 in handheld mode similar to the Switch vs PS3. But I'd be hard pressed to say it is a portable PS5 until we see games. Note. Portable PS5 to me means handheld mode. Not docked. DLSS is going to do a lot of lifting on the GPU side obviously.
 
Wouldn't be surprised if the first 1st-party Drake exclusive is a small RT tech demo, probably another Kirby eshop game where you eat raytraced cake with DLSS icing.
 
Basically during the PS360 era Sony and Microsoft has different idea on their console hardware:

Sony let Ken Kutaragi run most of the show on the PS3 hardware thinking that CPU’s could become better than GPU’s in the future. Hence why PS3 was going to have 2 Cell Processors in the beginning. But I think that Sony quickly realized that it would be impossible to develop games for 2 CPU’s and made a deal with Nvidia which resulted in 1 Cell + weak Nvidia GPU. Ken got booted power quickly after the Cell fiasco.

Microsoft went with a weaker but easier to program CPU and a meaty GPU which has a 10mb onboard cache for AA which was a boon for developers.

Switch is a much more modern uArch and runs games even the PS3 and Xbox360 could ever dream of. Heck, even Sony first party games that look so good don’t hold a candle to what’s on Switch from Nintendo and 3:rd Party Devs
 
The only reason the PS3 had visuals the way it did was because of the Cell. The GPU on that console is straight up trash and should not be compared to the switch (besides also being nvidia).

Switch is more of a downscaled PS4/X1 than an upscaled PS360.
 
Pardon me for posting something tangential for a minute. It filled me with glee when I saw Sylux is now going after markomaro.


I don't mind fake insiders that much, since they are ultimately harmless (we are talking about video games). But markomaro's liberal use of psychic "reading" techniques makes me roll my eyes (I wrote about it here and here). I'm glad that Sylux is taking them down a peg.
 
Wasn’t it sylux everyone was saying was fake a while ago?
No that was samushunter probably.

Sylux is IMO a parody account (likely by Jon Cartwright) meant to make samushunter and the like look extremely foolish by actually putting out real info.
 
The Switch hardware is far more modern than the 7th gen consoles. Dunno how many that can be said. The Switch however is not a portable PS4. While feature set is extremely important in porting due to supporting modern pipelines and work flows the power component is obviously a major fact and in portable mode the Switch is obviously way behind the PS4. Again. Not sure how this is still controversial 6 years later. The Switch is basically half way between the PS3 and the PS4 in terms of raw power when you factor everything in.

Drake will be the same between a PS4 and PS5 docked. It will be well above a PS4 in handheld mode similar to the Switch vs PS3. But I'd be hard pressed to say it is a portable PS5 until we see games. Note. Portable PS5 to me means handheld mode. Not docked. DLSS is going to do a lot of lifting on the GPU side obviously.
No one is saying that the Switch is as powerful as a PS4, just that calling it a portable PS3 is a pretty misleading lens to view it through, because the hardware works nothing like a PS3 and it is quite a lot more capable.
 
It'd be easier to make these ports on a more powerful system, right? I understand the broad strokes of your argument here, but surely new hardware would manipulate the variables of said calculations.

It definitely would be easier for devs to port to Drake, I’m sure.

But will that change any calculus in any reasonable way in real world terms? That’s what I question.

From interviews, we know that Witcher 3 took about one year to port to TX1 hardware (that is relatively decent time for any huge game to be ported to new architecture, no?) and by a relatively small dev team (Saber interactive 2018).

If that port never happened, and CDPR decided to hire someone to make a port just for Drake hardware…do I think it would take less time and less people to do it? And thus be cheaper/easier? No, I don’t.

So regardless of how much less stress and agita Drake hardware puts on individual devs/coders when they go to work, I still see the calculus by Publishers who need to devote time/resources/limited teams to a Switch Drake version as being not much different.

I’m pretty sure the Wii U was easier to port ps360 games to compared to the Wii. Did that change how publishers supported the new hardware? Not really. The Wii U could have gotten every ps360 multiplat from 2012-2015. It didn’t.
 
Pardon me for posting something tangential for a minute. It filled me with glee when I saw Sylux is now going after markomaro.


I don't mind fake insiders that much, since they are ultimately harmless (we are talking about video games). But markomaro's liberal use of psychic "reading" techniques makes me roll my eyes (I wrote about it here and here). I'm glad that Sylux is taking them down a peg.

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It definitely would be easier for devs to port to Drake, I’m sure.

But will that change any calculus in any reasonable way in real world terms? That’s what I question.

From interviews, we know that Witcher 3 took about one year to port to TX1 hardware (that is relatively decent time for any huge game to be ported to new architecture, no?) and by a relatively small dev team (Saber interactive 2018).

If that port never happened, and CDPR decided to hire someone to make a port just for Drake hardware…do I think it would take less time and less people to do it? And thus be cheaper/easier? No, I don’t.

So regardless of how much less stress and agita Drake hardware puts on individual devs/coders when they go to work, I still see the calculus by Publishers who need to devote time/resources/limited teams to a Switch Drake version as being not much different.

I’m pretty sure the Wii U was easier to port ps360 games to compared to the Wii. Did that change how publishers supported the new hardware? Not really. The Wii U could have gotten every ps360 multiplat from 2012-2015. It didn’t.
It's all hypothetical because we have no locked down hardware to talk about and concrete dev discussions on how the dev environment will look.

For all we know the next console would go back to not supporting popular game engines, and regardless of how powerful it is, it will be a PITA to port there.
There's multiple vectors to ports happening or not. 1) game engines supported 2) technical cabilities/featureset is similar to other platforms 3) business opportunity/installed base/royalty structure.

You seem very zeroed in on extrapolating what happened in the past and saying it absolutely will happen in the future.

Until we do have a hardware and solid things like which engines will be support to chew on, your guess is as good as mine, but it's fair to assume 'more of the same', which is wide support for existing engines as well as UE5, significantly more powerful than the Switch , higher bar than current baseline PC specs.
 
This doesn't make no sense. Why would they compete with Nintendo? None of the western publishers work on genres Nintendo excels in. They're not competing, in fact, some of the Nintendo-like games sell best on Switch, like Immortals or Crash Team Racing. That theory is nonsense. The whole "only Nintendo games sell on Nintendo consoles" thing needs to die. Everything sell well on Switch, it's the only widely available handheld in the market.

I think you are confused what is meant by “compete” here.

What people buy a specific gaming platform for matters. It dictates what most of its userbase leans to, the market they boost, the engagement they have.

On the Nintendo platform, Nintendo 1st party gaming sucks most the air out of the room. (Compare this with Xbox/PlayStation where their 1st party games don’t. They actually help facilitate similar minded 3rd party games. Their top 20-30 best selling games are more 3rd party than 1st)

So when people say certain games just can’t “compete” with Nintendo 1st party games on Nintendo platforms, they mean they can’t find room for engagement for their game that is too incongruous for what people use the platforms mostly to game.

Yes, like you said, the 3rd party games that are most similar to Nintendo 1st party games are the ones that can compete better. That’s the whole point.

The 3rd party games that can can compete very well against Xbox and PlayStation 1st party games on their platforms are generally the type that can’t compete for engagement on Nintendo platforms.

FWIW:


Answer to other theory... They're not "dumping" every PS360 game to Switch because they can do better than that, just by lightly "remastering" them to sell for a bigger price, as evident with Ubi and T2 releases. Ubi had HD remastered Rayman 3 and BG&E for PS360 and they stuck there, why not bringing them to modern consoles? Not just Switch, PS4 and Xbox too? Timing, a company like Ubisoft always look for maximizing the profits. Save BG&E re-release just before the BG&E2 launch for instance, ride on that hype. Switch isn't the only console missing some important last gen ports. But every publisher, save for Namco, steadily bringing their PS360 lineup to modern consoles. Switch has got many of 2K's lineup already and slowly getting Ubi's. (EA is one of the rare publishers who's not into re-releases, on any platform)

Eh, don’t get too hung up on the ps360 porting part. I shouldn’t have mentioned it.

The Switch could get/could have gotten a port of any Xbox One game if publishers really thought there was demand for it on the Switch.

...there will be a massive launch hype for this Pro. A Pro version of a super successful console of the modern times and Nintendo is unlikely to bring any exclusives for it. This is literally a retelling of GBC. Profit motivated publishers won't miss this big opportunity, they'll all have some big guns for the launch. Maybe no "drop all the games instantly" thing but this could be a pretty stacked launch year. There still could be some "dumps", like Capcom did with Resident Evil on base Switch in 2019.

Look, I have no doubt publishers will try some Drake exclusives and give it shot to see how it lands. I am expecting it. Like I said, there will be some “vanity” projects just to show off what they can do with better Switch hardware (similar to how Witcher 3 and Doom were projects to show off what could be done on OG Switch mobile hardware)

I see it working similar to the Wii U trajectory of “unprecedented support!”

Publishers were excited at the prospect of a Nintendo platform FINALLY being HD and having a normal, standard control scheme. They thought this might make their games more appealing on a Nintendo platform than usual. And there was a lot of early support and ports to the Wii U out of the gate based on these theories.

Didn’t pan out. The tie ratio of their efforts were generally abysmal.

For example, COD: Ghosts was the best selling game on the Xbox one and ps4 in 2013. Represent 6% and 7% of its total sales, respectively.

COD: Ghosts was NOT the best selling Wii U game in 2013. Probably not even in the top 20 lol. It represented less than 1% of total COD: Ghosts sales.

Come on now. Wii U had a very good first party lineup, some of them were among the best in their series: NSMBU, Mario Maker, Super Mario 3D World, WW/TP, Donkey Kong 2, StarFox, Bayo 2, Splatoon, Pikmin 3, Xeno X... Only thing missing was Animal Crossing, but I doubt absence of it was the only thing kept the console below 20m sales, as AC shines better on handhelds. Do not blame the first party lineup please.

I loved my Wii U. I used to always defend it back in the day.

But the discussion around Wii U during its lifetime was ABSOLUTELY about consistent 1st party release “droughts”. 100%. Great Wii U games were released, but not enough. A 1st party gaming machine needs continuous 1st party support.

Every Nintendo direct had people complaining how much 3ds focus there was. There was absolutely lament from Wii U owners about Nintendo focus being divided.

I think you are severely underestimating how many Nintendo gamers were just fine getting their Nintendo gaming fix on the GBA and the 3ds. They didn’t really need the GC/Wii U that much.

The Switch having both the typical home console and typical handheld consoles together in a singular, consistent focus absolutely makes the Switch a more compelling system than the GameCube or the Wii U. I don’t know how you can argue otherwise.

Absolutely Wii U would have sold better, probably snes numbers, had the 3ds not existed and it was the only platform for Nintendo games.
 
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I really think that the most of you guys dont understand that Nintendo doesnt care about anniversarys as much as you do.


They will release the Pro ASAP. Not a single company holds hardware back. It has to go out ASAP. The only case where this wasnt the case was with the OG Switch due to lack of Games and due to the circumstances that Nintendo was at the brink of going bankrupt IF the Switch would fail.


Thats it. Switch Pro doesnt need Zelda neither will Nintendo wait for BOTW2. If it launches with BOTW2 than its only because the Hardware will be ready by that date nothing else...
 
I really think that the most of you guys dont understand that Nintendo doesnt care about anniversarys as much as you do.


They will release the Pro ASAP. Not a single company holds hardware back. It has to go out ASAP. The only case where this wasnt the case was with the OG Switch due to lack of Games and due to the circumstances that Nintendo was at the brink of going bankrupt IF the Switch would fail.


Thats it. Switch Pro doesnt need Zelda neither will Nintendo wait for BOTW2. If it launches with BOTW2 than its only because the Hardware will be ready by that date nothing else...
Listening to Reggie's disrupting the game, anniversaries doesn't even come up as a thing.

He touches on exhausting the Wii market as a transition to the Wii U (color variations/models etc) but he does leave a lot out, out of deference to his colleagues and not to get in trouble with Nintendo lawyers, but his later chapters on Wii U/3DS confirms a few things we sort of guessed, but debunks a lot of fan theories about what was really going on at Nintendo.

He takes credit for pushing for Switch to support UE4 and Unity right out of the box to widen software base for it. Doug Bowser was hand picked by him to succeed him, though he emphasizes Doug is his own person and not a Reggie clone, but I would suspect they align on a lot of strategic issues.
 
No, I mean yes, but that’s not why I posted this, reason is that the cases in which Nintendo overwhelmingly sells more than the third party games on their platforms are actually not that common.

Switch is only about 50/50.

I’m fact it’s not common really.

I appreciate that link, and it is helpful to that discussion.

However, it is somewhat disingenuous to point out total 3rd vs 1st software sales as indicative of anything about the above discussion.

The discussion is about Nintendo getting 3rd party support that it normally doesn’t/didn’t/wouldn’t ever get…not that it doesn’t get a bunch of 3rd party support.

The argument isn’t saying that total 3rd party sales can’t outsell 1st party sales on Nintendo platforms, they absolutely can (usually do)

It’s saying that certain titles can’t compete in sales on Nintendo platforms. Usually the bigger games that require the bigger investments/greater risks. A game like COD and Assassins Creed couldn’t even compete well enough against Nintendo’s worst selling 1st party Wii U game, for example. But of course Monster Hunter and Just Dance and Lego games can, no one is saying otherwise.

Your link shows us that the GameCube sold 3 times as many 3rd party games than 1st party.

Doesn’t mean much towards the fact that the GameCube is notorious for all the Xbox/ps2 type 3rd party support it DIDNT get.
 
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Nintendo position in Japan when it comes to multiplatform releases changes any possible pre-Switch narrative at least for 3rd party JP releases, Switch has accomplished what no console had done for 20+ years, becoming the n1 platform for multiplatforms in Japan over a PS one. Over 90% of multiplatform releases favor Switch over PS4/PS5 and the difference is only increasing, this means that developers and publishers that want to sell in Japan are 'forced' to put their games on Nintendo hardware, we always complain about X franchise or Y studio skipping Switch (and to be fair it makes sense to do so) but over 90% of 3rd parties have already jumped shiped and are supporting Switch, anyone trying to think this will change and will not keep increasing is a fool the only question left is what the 10% left will do when Drake releases, especially devs that aren't BNS .
 
This thread has usually been a friendly place, but I'm seeing folks getting at each other's throats. If you don't like someone, stick them on ignore.
 
Please read this new, consolidated staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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