Seems TSS has us covered. I'm listening to them now as I type this:Man, I need longer snippets of those to get a proper feel for them, but from that video the only one I feel is a straight downgrade is Icecap. Oh well, I'd still rather have the game with changed music than not have it at all.
ah dang, I was hoping Ice Cap could maybe stay because it wasn't a Jackson song but alas..Man, I need longer snippets of those to get a proper feel for them, but from that video the only one I feel is a straight downgrade is Icecap. Oh well, I'd still rather have the game with changed music than not have it at all.
Seems TSS has us covered. I'm listening to them now as I type this:
Launch Base isn't up yet. Carnival Night sounds HORRIBLE! Icecap sounds fine imo.
I think the new tracks are good. But nostalgia is a strong drug, I’ll admit. I’ll get used to it. Looking forward to play these with a Sega Saturn pad, as my Switch still livesah dang, I was hoping Ice Cap could maybe stay because it wasn't a Jackson song but alas..
Seems TSS has us covered. I'm listening to them now as I type this:
Launch Base isn't up yet. Carnival Night sounds HORRIBLE! Icecap sounds fine imo.
This was the exact conclusion I came to. These pitches sound EXACTLY like how I remembered them sounding in the S&K Collection back in the late 90s.You know, I was struggling for a moment to figure out what happened. Why do the Ice Cap tracks, which are relatively untouched from the beta, have the same lead instrument now? Why was Carnival Night butchered? Then it hit me.
They're trying to mimic the PC version.
I just don't think those lower synth sounds feel "complete", everything else sounds alright though. Maybe it'll sound better while playing but it's odd.Hmmmm. I'm not as down on Carnival Night as you, but I do think the prototype version sounds better. Icecap is not bad, I just miss Hard Times.
This was the exact conclusion I came to. These pitches sound EXACTLY like how I remembered them sounding in the S&K Collection back in the late 90s.
It's an odd feeling, because while I liked the proto versions these are "technically" the finished products of those same protos but just translated from the PC version.
Also here's Launch Base:
I definitely get what you mean, it sounds weirdly muffled. I'm sure I'll get used to it. Ah well.I just don't think those lower synth sounds feel "complete", everything else sounds alright though. Maybe it'll sound better while playing but it's odd.
Again, Icecap and Launch Base sound very good in this vs both the proto versions and the PC midi songs imo.
Perhaps I'm being hyperbolic, but this new Super Sonic track for S3K is fucking horrible. I almost feel bad ragging on Canival Night. At least that track uses S3K instrumentation, this almost sounds like a Sonic 4 track. Why is it using the Sonic 1 and 2 drum sample? Why does it sound so...limp and generic? Why???
The actual sound quality is due to the recording. The instrumentation, though? Gotta match that Sonic & Knuckles Collection on PC, baybeeeeeeee!!!Why do all the new versions of the proto tracks sound really muted, like they sucked all the energy out of the room?
Ice Cap is at least better than proto otherwise. Launch Base is... I think slightly worse. Carnival Night got massacred.
Here you goHmmmm. I'm not as down on Carnival Night as you, but I do think the prototype version sounds better. Icecap is not bad, I just miss Hard Times.
Here you go
What's nutty is they do. Literally Jun Senoue. The only person I'd trust more than Tee with Sonic music. He did the remastering of the proto tracks for Origins.My guess is that Tee Lopes was busy and they don't have many others from that 90s era with experience to properly tweak those S&K PC songs.
I feel like the simplest explanation is the most apt - they had to use the beta/PC tracks for legal reasons, the PC's versions of the tracks were considered the "most complete," and the new mixes were done based on them. Look at Ice Cap - the PC tracks were the closest to beta, and they got the least touchups, with Act 2 basically just being the beta track.I have to wonder if they were actually trying to secure the rights for the original music and, when they gave up, just gave Jun Sunoue no time or resources to do these. The more I listen to them the worse most of them sound. Carnival Night 2 and Launch Base 2 get slaughtered by the muffled sound and bad mixing.
Of course, but here we have the them redone with the Genesis sounds and imo Carnival Night doesn't sound too great while Icecap and Launch Base sound just fine.What's nutty is they do. Literally Jun Senoue. The only person I'd trust more than Tee with Sonic music. He did the remastering of the proto tracks for Origins.
Considering how bad some companies were at archiving back then I wouldn't be shocked if the PC versions of the tracks were the only ones Sega had to use for Origins.I feel like the simplest explanation is the most apt - they had to use the beta/PC tracks for legal reasons, the PC's versions of the tracks were considered the "most complete," and the new mixes were done based on them. Look at Ice Cap - the PC tracks were the closest to beta, and they got the least touchups, with Act 2 basically just being the beta track.
And again, the muffled audio quality is due to the recording, not the songs themselves.
I would understand that, but if that was the case, then I am insanely surprised that they managed to make Ice Cap Act 2 1:1 with the beta track. Ice Cap Act 1 is also near identical, just that it now has the same lead instrument as Act 2, a change made by the time of the PC port. Simplest explanation is that they had at least some access to beta assets as a reference. And if they didn't, well, the betas have been widely documented. I still feel like them making the tracks more like the PC version was a design decision. Not malice or ignorance or incompetence.Considering how bad some companies were at archiving back then I wouldn't be shocked if the PC versions of the tracks were the only ones Sega had to use for Origins.
Honestly? Yeah, me too. The music situation is a blemish on an otherwise lovingly-made collection.Despite all this, I'm still excited for this. I think I'm gonna stream it on Friday.
I'm at a loss at the treatment of Carnival Night especially; it is TERRIBLE. Ice Cap made it out the best of the bunch just by being the closest to the proto tracks.
What gets me though is that they did rip one track directly from the proto, repurposed for the New Blue Spheres Mode.
Oh yeah same here. I just really wanted to know the fate of the replaced S3&K songs. Can't wait to get bodied in mirror mode!Despite all this, I'm still excited for this. I think I'm gonna stream it on Friday.
Yeah I actually called.. called on a telephone, the Sega hotline to get help on that one as a kid. I had been stuck on it for so long, had replayed the game up to that point so many times, that honestly Ice Cap and Launch Base still feel weird to me. I had played the Zones up to that point so much that the two Zones after felt really unfamiliar and felt like they weren't part of the same game.I saw some discussion about the Barrel of Doom not being altered in any way, and my initial thought was "well it's pretty well documented online how that works, so while it might be frustrating at first, it's easy to look up what to do."
But then I remembered I used to have a strategy guide for Sonic 3 that didn't mention how the barrel works at all, which is kind of wild to me. It gave me so much trouble as a kid and the strategy guide was absolutely useless, lmao.
I would have been way too scared to actually call someone on a phone over something like that as a kid, so hats off to kid you for doing that, haha.Yeah I actually called.. called on a telephone, the Sega hotline to get help on that one as a kid. I had been stuck on it for so long, had replayed the game up to that point so many times, that honestly Ice Cap and Launch Base still feel weird to me. I had played the Zones up to that point so much that the two Zones after felt really unfamiliar and felt like they weren't part of the same game.
Brains are weird.
And so is that fucking barrel.
Thank you! LOL I was actually very nervous talking to anyone as a kid, but the idea that I could call a person to talk about a video game fascinated me, so I was down for that.I would have been way too scared to actually call someone on a phone over something like that as a kid, so hats off to kid you for doing that, haha.
Well they'd be wrong because it is altered. Now your character looks up and down when pressing up and down on the barrel, which is an actual visual indicator that doing that is doing something. Originally they just stood perfectly still on the barrels, of course.I saw some discussion about the Barrel of Doom not being altered in any way, and my initial thought was "well it's pretty well documented online how that works, so while it might be frustrating at first, it's easy to look up what to do."
Helps show off the enhanced Super Sonic sprite set too; now fully complete with unique sprites for all actions.
I hadn't posted it yet, but the Competition menu theme is also the same as the proto (and good thing too, this track rocks).
So the breakdown on new / altered music is:
Really makes me wonder what happened to Carnival Night and Launch Base, most of the other tracks turned out fine.
- Carnival Night Act 1 - new arrangement
- Carnival Night Act 2 - new arrangement
- Ice Cap Act 1 - prototype rip (somewhat adjusted)
- Ice Cap Act 2 - prototype rip (pretty much the same)
- Launch Base Act 1 - new arrangement
- Launch Base Act 2 - new arrangement
- Super Sonic Theme - brand new theme
- Ending Theme - prototype rip (the same)
- Competition Menu Theme - prototype rip (the same)
- Unkown Theme - prototype rip (the same; repurposed for New Blue Spheres mode)
Well they'd be wrong because it is altered. Now your character looks up and down when pressing up and down on the barrel, which is an actual visual indicator that doing that is doing something. Originally they just stood perfectly still on the barrels, of course.
Helps show off the enhanced Super Sonic sprite set too; now fully complete with unique sprites for all actions.
Was this also a 900 number? Did you get parental permission before calling!?!?Thank you! LOL I was actually very nervous talking to anyone as a kid, but the idea that I could call a person to talk about a video game fascinated me, so I was down for that.
Nope, San Fran number:Was this also a 900 number? Did you get parental permission before calling!?!?