Yeah people generally seem to place too much importance on resolution. Games that hit native resolution can use all that extra GPU availability to do more advanced graphical effects. Or maybe in some cases offload some CPU functions.
I think the point is that you want to have consistent experiences across handheld and docked. If you target 720p in handheld and 4K (even if DLSS'ed) then the power differential could be such that you have a large performance budget left in handheld compared with docked, and you could have a situation where handheld assets look noticeably higher quality than docked (e.g. high quality asset presets in handheld vs. low presets in docked, or higher quality lighting in hh vs. docked), while the best visual experience is not brought to the fore because 720p can only bring so much visual quality. In that case (especially if DLSS is usable in handheld mode) a 1080p screen could be a better idea.
I'm curious: do we have the numbers for that? As it stands, the Drake chip would have 12SM, presumably with Ampere's improved tensor cores, which are 4x as powerful but 2x as large I believe. Therr would be 12*4 = 48 tensor cores vs. 240 tensor cores in the RTX 2060. Matching for performance, Drake would have about 80% of the performance at the same frequency. Of course, the RTX2060 has a base clock of about 1.4 GHz, would is likely to be around 1.5x that of Drake if it features in a Switch model. So we'd have about 55% of the tensor core performance. That's very likely not enough for 4k/60fps DLSS, but I'm not sure about 4K/30fps. It'll also depend on whether DLSS computation can be overlapped with ALU execution on the next frame in the architecture (since that was in the white paper for Ampere I believe).
Eeeeeh…. Alex isn’t really into Nintendo’s products in that capacity. While he would understand it very well from a philosophical, architectural and technical level, Nintendo is one of the three he cares the least about to discuss nor is he invested in any manner into their products or ecosystem. It’s not that he dislikes Nintendo, he just doesn’t care for them in this sense. Especially a product like the switch that doesn’t suit his preferred method of play that is stationary as he has noted previously, he doesn’t own a switch or sees the need to own one.
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Already many of the biggest games max the screen out or nearly so. If from MK8 to MK9 we go from 720p60 to 720p60 but with lower DPI thanks to the screen having become larger... disappointment. Any spec getting 0% improvement going from a $300 2017 machine to a $400+ 2022+ machine is going to be a disappointment. This is a machine that is both significantly more powerful, and has technology specifically intended to make higher resolutions easier to achieve. Since 2017 the only times I've purchased machines with resolutions as low as 720p it's either been the Switch or something like a $30 cell phone.
Unless the screen is larger going from 720p to 1080p isn’t an improvement except in number. The DPI is certainly beyond my ability to see, and likely for any human being on earth over the age of 25
most people don't give a shit about resolution
TBF, the mobile battery situation was VERY different in the Game Boy days. Systems didn't use built-in rechargeable batteries but rather AAs, and the Game Gear used an absurd 6 AAs for a fairly short battery life versus 2 AAs for the Game Boy's substantial battery life. There were rechargeable options, but that was an added cost and not nearly as ubiquitous as today. Even just last decade, the 3DS got criticized for a 4-hour battery life, while Switch's 2.5-hour battery life was fairly quickly accepted (probably because it meant 2.5 hours of playing BotW).
Are you talking about many of the biggest Nintendo Switch games from Nintendo? I'm pretty sure many of the biggest Nintendo Switch games from third party developers are quite far from running at 720p in handheld mode.
You're definitely right that battery life is a strong selling point, but I would argue that a good subset of people care about screen resolution as well - even if they would be unable to point out the 720p vs. 1080p images without the two being positioned side by side. I think it is a selling point, but probably more so for the enthusiast consumer than for the mainstream consumer.
That's a fair concern. Then again, if you keep designing for 720p handheld visuals on Drake, you simply shift the problem to the next device. An ideal solution would be if the Switch Drake could use the non-active CPU cores to run an AI upscaling algorithm to upscale them to a more acceptable 1080p translation.
Unless many games target higher than native resolution in handheld mode and use that to get a supersampled 720p image.
True, but then you would be hindering native games by that 720p screen just to accommodate BC to a somewhat better degree (assuming a 1080p would be chosen or discarded based on this issue).
The current oled panel should most likely be capable of hdr already. It’s a modern Samsung panel.
John would be more suitable for this kind of topic since he likes his portable devices.
A bit unsure about what ms tech you are referring to here.The only way I would see it being fine for a 1080p display is if Nintendo executed a method similar to what Microsoft did which boosted resolution and/or framerate. Otherwise you’re left with a 540p image on a 1080p display.
I don’t think you would want that
The bigger concern isn’t about the display at that point, but whether Nintendo can actually do it in a way that does not require developer input much or at all.
The display simply becomes a target that needs to be reached and Nintendo is the variable in this equation.
It’s not really tech per se on a hardware level, but it’s a software approach.
Msoft can interupt DirectX calls on Xboxes to multiply resolution or FPS pretty much
... I feel bad for replying to your lengthy post since he is the one who ran the Switch DLSS thought experiment not so long ago! He might not be a Switch enthusiast but he is versed enough on the tech side to deliver relevant clues.Eeeeeh…. Alex isn’t really into Nintendo’s products in that capacity. While he would understand it very well from a philosophical, architectural and technical level, Nintendo is one of the three he cares the least about to discuss nor is he invested in any manner into their products or ecosystem. It’s not that he dislikes Nintendo, he just doesn’t care for them in this sense. Especially a product like the switch that doesn’t suit his preferred method of play that is stationary as he has noted previously, he doesn’t own a switch or sees the need to own one.
His focus would be very much focused on multiplat and PC related content, with the customization and flexibility that is offered there. The switch doesn’t offer the type of flexibility he is into, despite being a flexible platform in other aspects. But as mentioned, it would be a useless flexibility for him.
So asking for him is more like asking for anyone else that could glance and go for this type of thread
Not really trying to bash Alex, his work is wonderful but he’s the last person for this type of discussion that is in focus on Nintendo. That isn’t to say he wouldn’t appreciate a more philosophical discussion surrounding certain feature parity across platforms, but like Nintendo isn’t catering to his audience demographic.
PS5 and Series X are more of interest and follow more of the general format that he appreciates (stationary), and in due part because these consoles aren’t as weak this time around compared to the predecessors when they released on top of having feature parity that can push for more feature set that is available on PC to actually be implemented and taken advantage of from proxy of the console versions getting these features. Features such as RayTracing wouldn’t really be that prevalent without the consoles pulling in a large amount of weight as game development still focuses primarily on the console space and PC platform simply benefits without using the negatives of a console (it has its own negatives, mind you).
Steam Deck is something he hasn’t really looked too much into but has some interest in it (really a lot less since it’s not his preferred method) for an optimization POV and such, or rather how hard it will be
And again, Alex would probably know how much bandwidth would be used for upscaling and which would be left for rasterizarion/RTX.
I would be partial to a 1080p screen over a 4K one if DLSS is used in portable mode. That way, it leaves open the possibility to render games at 540p, and to patch the titles from legacy hardware (if I am not wrong, there is now a one-fit-for-all solution that allows just that) . If these conditions are not fulfilled, then we are left with games running at non native res and that sucks in my opinion.
540p on a 1080p display is better than 540p on a 720p display.The only way I would see it being fine for a 1080p display is if Nintendo executed a method similar to what Microsoft did which boosted resolution and/or framerate. Otherwise you’re left with a 540p image on a 1080p display.
I don’t think you would want that
The bigger concern isn’t about the display at that point, but whether Nintendo can actually do it in a way that does not require developer input much or at all.
The display simply becomes a target that needs to be reached and Nintendo is the variable in this equation.
so long there's proper integer scaling with no shitty filtering
It will be passing through the render output though, which would make it effectively a 720p image with a (bilinear filtered) filtered 540p element being passed and stretched to a 1080p display. Essentially 540p -> 720p -> 1080p, instead of going straight from 540p -> 1080p using nearest neighbor scaling.
There'd only be a 720p step if the game explicitly adds it. At least some probably do, but likely not all.
If Alex Agius Saliba gets his way the Joycons would need to have a dedicated charging port as well, if I am reading what he is saying right.(Here's the archive to the Reuters article. And also, here's a briefing from the EU from February 2022 on the proposed legislation on using a common charger for electronic devices.)EU deal on single mobile charging port by year end is possible, lawmaker says
EU lawmakers and member states could clinch a deal on a common charging port for mobile phones, tablets and headphone by the end of the year, a key lawmaker said on Tuesday, a proposal that has been strongly criticised by iPhone maker Apple .
I certainly believe Nintendo needs to be compliant with USB PD standards sooner rather than later, especially if Nintendo wants to continue selling in the EU.
Add a mic? Yes. Probably those small mics but put in the left joycon or right one. Though I think they’ll aim to do that in the left one as the right one is so feature dense.
Assuming handheld mode can do DLSS, I would think most games would be able to hit 1080p that way at least. A big upgrade over Switch games which fail to reach native resolution.
There's a GTC 2022 (Spring 2022) session titled "Accelerating In-Vehicle GPU Computing, from Sensing to Inference", which mentions "various GPU-based camera and lidar data processing", which at least theoretically has use for ray tracing.
But Control uses 1080p to 4K dlss when it was only at 2.0. That video was what convinced me dlss is legit. Does Super Switch not have enough tensor cores to pull it off, or are the tensor cores not strong enough to pull that off?
I don't think it would be that hard. DLSS Super Performance mode exists for a reason. The quality of the upscale though wouldn't be as good as native 4k, but when it's getting to the point of diminishing returns, who would care?
