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Discussion Switch 2's DLSS implementation code has been stolen/leaked from NVidia

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ILikeFeet said:
there's the MX570 with has 2048 cores. just slap some cpus on it
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It's also the same as the 3050m! So that seems to be a rough baseline of what kind of level of performance we might be able to expect (obviously it won't be a perfect match, given the myriad of other hardware factors involved such as clock speed, memory bandwidth, RAM speed/size etc), but it's not a bad place to start guessing I reckon.

Something even close to that would be amazing for a handheld, certainly well beyond what the Steam Deck currently offers (Probably even better than the Series S!), especially when factoring in DLSS and Nvidia RT advantages.
 
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Derachi said:
So what are we thinking?

- Announcement before E3, E3 is software blowout?
- E3 shows a bunch of games looking/performing shockingly well, hardware announcement in July?
- FamiBoards user Derachi crumbling into dust as more and more time passes without a more performant Switch unit?
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I think we'll see it in May if it releases this year, otherwise September/October for a March '23 date.

Pavolink said:
Wii U was announced at E3 2011. 1.5 years befare release.
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And the DS was even less: announced twelve months before release, revealed ten months before. Huge success regardless.

@Dcubed Technically speaking Dane is already 'announced' (in the most general terms, "Integrated Hardware-Software Next gaming system - 20XX") and has a game announced in Eiyuden Chronicle. All it's missing is a public codename, but I don't see why that missing would prevent Nintendo from distributing devkits or making supply chain and retail plans? That's all stuff done behind closed doors anyway, none of it would have appreciably changed to my knowledge if Nintendo had waited to announce the NX until April 2016 when they said Zelda was delayed.

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious there, and I appreciate the effort you're putting into your posts on the matter.
 
Dcubed said:
It's also the same as the 3050m! So that seems to be a rough baseline of what kind of level of performance we might be able to expect (obviously it won't be a perfect match, given the myriad of other hardware factors involved), but it's not a bad start I reckon.

That would be very very solid for a handheld, certainly well beyond what the Steam Deck currently offers, especially when factoring in DLSS and Nvidia RT advantages.
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I still think 1024 cores is the most that's reasonable
 
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Dcubed said:


Yup. It's Ampere. This also means that Switch 2 will feature raytracing support (though how well it'll actually work in practice of course remains to be seen).
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I realize this is diving into the flame war, but this comment implies that NVidia was building NVN2 for a Pro rather than a Successor - a "new" NX not a different code named device.
 
oldpuck said:
I realize this is diving into the flame war, but this comment implies that NVidia was building NVN2 for a Pro rather than a Successor - a "new" NX not a different code named device.
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FYI the NX verbiage there might be (probably is IMO) referring to Jetson Orin NX, not the NX code name for the Switch.
 
oldpuck said:
I realize this is diving into the flame war, but this comment implies that NVidia was building NVN2 for a Pro rather than a Successor - a "new" NX not a different code named device.
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it's being built for a specific set of hardware. name is irrelevant
 
Was gonna get myself a ps5 but I might hold myself off until July. I'm really hoping Nintendo releases this thing in 2022 the new pokemon game looks like a blurry mess lol
 
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Dcubed said:
2048 Cuda Cores isn't a million miles off of the 2560 that's in the RTX3050...

Of course, there's a million other factors that would come into play when evaluating total performance (memory bandwidth, RAM speed/size etc), but that looks like a promising start to me :)
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The 2048 cores in that image is for T234/Orin, which is an automotive chip, not T239/Drake, which is the chip Nintendo will use. T239 will certainly have a lower number of cores, but there's no confirmed amount as of yet.

oldpuck said:
I realize this is diving into the flame war, but this comment implies that NVidia was building NVN2 for a Pro rather than a Successor - a "new" NX not a different code named device.
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I'd argue that it just implies the new hardware is backwards compatible with Switch, whether Nintendo position it as a pro or successor is a bit academic to Nvidia.
 
I think it really doesn't matter if it's a successor or a pro. I think the priority is retaining the existing software library moving forward while pushing out new games that build on the Switch ecosystem. Kinda like the Iphone model.

I think Nintendo realizes that HD development and "starting over" with new hardware isn't feasible in terms of dev time and resources. It's much easier to sell people a platform these days. And platforms look attractive when there's a robust library of content available.

Nintendo is going to market this like a new iphone. Get a nice new and more powerful toy, keep all your existing apps, and look forward to games that take advantage of new hardware.
 
Anyway regardless of when this releases, this is very exciting. Nintendo are some of the best tech wizards out there, imagine what they could do juggling rendering resolution with the aid of DLSS.
 
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I'm not going to believe in a 2022 release date until Nintendo comes out and says it. On that note,

FMoUVPiXIAAsKZh.jpg


Quack
 
Thraktor said:
The 2048 cores in that image is for T234/Orin, which is an automotive chip, not T239/Drake, which is the chip Nintendo will use. T239 will certainly have a lower number of cores, but there's no confirmed amount as of yet.


I'd argue that it just implies the new hardware is backwards compatible with Switch, whether Nintendo position it as a pro or successor is a bit academic to Nvidia.
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Any chance that we could be looking at 5nm for Switch 2? I mean... what with NVidia buying up masses of 5nm manufacturing capacity for 2022-2023 from TMSS...

I imagine that the smaller process node would go a long way towards allowing for a higher Cuda Core count...
 
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I think it'll be March 2023. I guess with BotW2. Holiday this year has enough games to satisfy without BotW2, and then they'll probably just want to try to repeat Switch 1-esque launch in March I think.
 
Cow Mengde said:
Is it possible for Nintendo to have been stockpiling chips when they're available so that they can meet demand when it launches?
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It's unlikely mass production of these. chips has begun.

The global chip supply situation is a lot more complex than most people seem to understand, an SoC being produced on Samsung 8nm as Drake is rumored to be will not have serious supply issues because Samsung's 8nm process is not nearly as in demand as, say TSMC's 7nm process. This will likely be in short supply when it launches but not anywhere near to the extent the PS5 was.

Probably more like the Switch OLED's situation.
 
Dcubed said:
You need time for developers to start preparing games for the platform,
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If you believe those rumors, you also believe that developers have been preparing games for a year to a year and a half now. Combine this with the fact that the rumors also say many titles are targeting both the Switch and the new hardware, and it's not hard to imagine there could be decent software support this year if need be.
Dcubed said:
time for retailers and other partners to buy-in with the console etc.
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From what I understand, that only takes a few months.
Dcubed said:
Revisions are not the same thing as new hardware and you know it.
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We don't know what this is.

frog said:
Lol

You are not getting a Switch Pro seven years into the Switch's life (2023)
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It's not as black and white as Switch 2 or Switch Pro with no in-between.

Skittzo said:
Switch pineapple.
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It returns!

Kano said:
despair. anyone reasonable should know by now, march 1st, that no new hardware is releasing this year.
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That's a rather sweeping generalization to make. I'm loving my OLED and would be happy with it for another year and a half at least, but I don't see much reason to doubt the currently standing rumors.
Kano said:
not true, they just made me realize no one knows anything outside of nintendo
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That's pretty much exactly what he said lol
 
I mean Nate is still maintaining that there are games targeting this thing releasing in 2022, so if we take that at face value then Holiday release is possible
 
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Jersh said:
If you believe those rumors, you also believe that developers have been preparing games for a year to a year and a half now. Combine this with the fact that the rumors also say many titles are targeting both the Switch and the new hardware, and it's not hard to imagine there could be decent software support this year if need be.

From what I understand, that only takes a few months.

We don't know what this is.


It's not as black and white as Switch 2 or Switch Pro with no in-between.


It returns!


That's a rather sweeping generalization to make. I'm loving my OLED and would be happy with it for another year and a half at least, but I don't see much reason to doubt the currently standing rumors.

That's pretty much exactly what he said lol
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The fact that all of these people said the exact same thing about a release in 2020 or 2021 is enough to doubt them for me lol
 
At this point, anything could happen.
My guess is 2023 release, and 2022 will be carried by the amazing lineup and Oled sales.

Now the question, early, mid or late 2023?
 
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Kano said:
The fact that all of these people said the exact same thing about a release in 2020 or 2021 is enough to doubt them for me lol
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I don't recall anyone notable saying the same thing about 2020 at all. 2021 was a blunder, but even in real-time there was clearly confusion amongst the insiders once Mochi went ahead and said a reveal was happening around E3, which indicated to me that something might be wrong with that report. I can understand paying Mochi little mind after that, of course; I just don't think it's the simple 'he doesn't know shit' that you make it out to be.
 
Jersh said:
I don't recall anyone notable saying the same thing about 2020 at all. 2021 was a blunder, but even in real-time there was clearly confusion amongst the insiders once Mochi went ahead and said a reveal was happening around E3, which indicated to me that something might be wrong with that report. I can understand paying Mochi little mind after that, of course; I just don't think it's the simple 'he doesn't know shit' that you make it out to be.
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Hey I didn't imply he doesn't know anything. In fact this new bit of info confirms he does have legit sources at Nvidia since he was the first one to talk about DLSS.

What I was implying is that no one has sources at Nintendo and no one knows when the device is releasing. 2019 and 2020 proved it already.
 
Kano said:
The fact that all of these people said the exact same thing about a release in 2020 or 2021 is enough to doubt them for me lol
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Literally nobody claimed anything was coming in 2020. I don't know why that keeps getting brought up.

And 2021 was an understandable mistake.
 
Pokémon Black and White release date: 9/18/2010
3DS release date: 02/26/2011

Pokémon Sun and Moon release date: 11/18/2016
Switch release date: 03/04/2017

Pokémon Scarlet and Violet release date: "late 2022"
 
Skittzo said:
It's unlikely mass production of these. chips has begun.

The global chip supply situation is a lot more complex than most people seem to understand, an SoC being produced on Samsung 8nm as Drake is rumored to be will not have serious supply issues because Samsung's 8nm process is not nearly as in demand as, say TSMC's 7nm process. This will likely be in short supply when it launches but not anywhere near to the extent the PS5 was.

Probably more like the Switch OLED's situation.
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Oh, I completely forgot about that!

ILikeFeet said:
nah. as soon a systems are made, they'll be shipped to stores. stock be damned
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I was more thinking about the SOC itself and not the complete units, but Skittzo already answered my question.
 
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Come to think of it, we should probably be looking at the Jetson Orin NX as our baseline of what to expect I reckon...

Jetson Orin NX Module Technical Specifications​


AI Performance100 TOPS (INT8)
GPUNVIDIA Ampere architecture
with 1024 NVIDIA® CUDA® cores and 32 Tensor Cores
Max GPU Freq1 GHz
CPU8-core Arm® Cortex®-A78AE v8.2 64-bit CPU
2MB L2 + 4MB L3
CPU Max Freq2 GHz
DL Accelerator2x NVDLA v2.0
Vision AcceleratorPVA v2.0
Memory12GB 128-bit LPDDR5
102.4 GB/s
StorageSupports external NVMe
CSI CameraUp to 4 cameras (8 via virtual channels*)
8 lanes MIPI CSI-2
D-PHY 1.2 (20 Gbps)
Video Encode1x 4K60 | 2x 4K30 | 6x 1080p60 | 14x 1080p30 (H.265)
Video Decode1x 8K30 | 2x 4K60 | 6x 4K30 | 12x 1080p60 | 24x 1080p30 (H.265)
UPHY3 x1 + 1 x4 PCIe Gen 4
3x USB 3.2 Gen2
Networking1x GbE
Display1x 8K60 multi-mode DP 1.4a (+MST)/eDP 1.4a/HDMI 2.1
Other I/O3x USB 2.0
3x UART | 2x SPI | 4x I2C | 1x CAN | DMIC | DSPK | 2x I2S | 15x GPIOs
Power10W | 15W | 25W
Mechanical69.6mm x 45mm
260-pin SO-DIMM connector
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That already looks pretty tasty :)
 
Apopheniac said:
Pokémon Black and White release date: 9/18/2010
3DS release date: 02/26/2011

Pokémon Sun and Moon release date: 11/18/2016
Switch release date: 03/04/2017

Pokémon Scarlet and Violet release date: "late 2022"
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We can take this a step further.

Pokemon Crystal release date: 12/14/2000
GBA release date: 3/21/2001

DS Is the only one that breaks this pattern, but even that had Pokemon Emerald releasing a couple months before, the system itself was just a holiday release.
 
I don't expect many exclusives for this thing for quite some time if it comes out late 2022/early 2023.

Probably a few exclusive third-party ports and that's it.
 
sanstea said:
I don't expect many exclusives for this thing for quite some time if it comes out late 2022/early 2023.

Probably a few exclusive third-party ports and that's it.
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It's possible (likely IMO) it never gets any first party exclusives. But it'll absolutely get a ton of third party exclusives, probably at launch.
 
GamerJM said:
We can take this a step further.

Pokemon Crystal release date: 12/14/2000
GBA release date: 3/21/2001

DS Is the only one that breaks this pattern, but even that had Pokemon Emerald releasing a couple months before, the system itself was just a holiday release.
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Pokémon is essentially annual, the specific significance of BW, SM, and SV is that they're all the first games of generations that release on the same platform as the prior generation.
 
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Skittzo said:
It's possible (likely IMO) it never gets any first party exclusives. But it'll absolutely get a ton of third party exclusives, probably at launch.
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Oh, I'm sure it will as even the New 3DS got some. I don't expect much in the first 2 years, though.
 
sanstea said:
Oh, I'm sure it will as even the New 3DS got some. I don't expect much, though.
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New 3DS only got first party "exclusives" that were originally games made for more powerful hardware. Nintendo has no more powerful hardware to downport to Drake.
 
Skittzo said:
That's not possible because the OLED model was datamined separately from this almost 2 years ago, and Dane couldn't ever have launched before 2022 due to Nvidia's Orin schedule laid out as of 2019.

Plus the rumors about devkits existing, no OLED devkits were sent out until late 2021 when the devkits for this were repeatedly rumored in late 2020 and early 2021.
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I honestly think y'all are looking at information that is now outdated that was leaked.

And there's new, updated info that has NOT leaked. All I'm saying.

If it somehow drops this year? Cool. OLED owners should be a little annoyed at that fact imo. So far Nintendo has set the precedent for new releases every other year.
 
Skittzo said:
It'll be cut down from that even.
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I wouldn't necessarily say that... The Switch's version of Tegra X1 was actually an upgrade over the base X1 spec (extra 1GB of RAM and better memory bandwidth).

Hermii said:
Orin NX is a binned big orin, with (more or less) half the components disabled.
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True, but Switch 2 isn't using standard Orin as-is anyway. So I think that this should be helpful in giving us a rough idea of what Nintendo will be aiming for with their customised variant. And even in this cut-down form, Orin NX easily blows away the Steam Deck in terms of performance (and that's before DLSS!).
 
Kano said:
What I was implying is that no one has sources at Nintendo
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I feel that just from the sheer amount of first party software rumors that have been proven true over the years, this is demonstrably false.

It is true that accurate EPD-only rumors are somewhat rare (though they do exist). But EPD-only games themselves have been pretty rare since 2018. In the same vein, a device as far along as the rumors are suggesting would have to have had quite a bit of information communicated to companies other than Nintendo at this point, including the target release window. In fact, both Mochizuki and Nate have pretty much said their info on the release timing comes from what Nintendo has communicated to development partners, not someone at Nintendo itself. IF no one outside Nintendo knows the window, then of course it's not this year.
Kano said:
2019 and 2020 proved it already.
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You and I seem to have different definitions of 'prove'.
 
Jahranimo said:
I honestly think y'all are looking at information that is now outdated that was leaked.

And there's new, updated info that has NOT leaked. All I'm saying.

If it somehow drops this year? Cool. OLED owners should be a little annoyed at that fact imo. So far Nintendo has set the precedent for new releases every other year.
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I'm not sure I follow... the stuff in this leak was last modified in February 2022. Aka possibly yesterday.

Kano said:
You say mistake, I say evidence that they don't know.
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It's really just Occam's Razor. Bloomberg explicitly says they have supply chain sources and development sources, both of those have info about a new product so it's a natural mistake to assume they're for the same product.

It makes less sense to assume all of the info they've gotten from their sources is wrong.

Dcubed said:
I wouldn't necessarily say that... The Switch's version of Tegra X1 was actually an upgrade over the base X1 spec (extra 1GB of RAM and better memory bandwidth).
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Orin NX has a bunch of automotive components that'll be completely useless for a Switch-like device. It will absolutely need to be cut down from Orin NX, especially since Orin NX's minimum operating power is 15W IIRC.

We know Orin NX is a binned version of T234, and Drake is T239. So we know for a fact from these leaks that it's not the same chip as Orin or Orin NX, just a derivative of those.
 
sanstea said:
I don't expect many exclusives for this thing for quite some time if it comes out late 2022/early 2023.

Probably a few exclusive third-party ports and that's it.
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Switch library is already massive - mostly interested in it to have a system that can run Switch games at better quality and in higher resolution.

Exclusive games are a nice to have but not the main reason I'm interested. Most publishers won't be able to justify to disregard the +100m regular Switch sold anyway.
 
When this thing gets revealed it will be so funny to see the people saying "no way it's happening" suddenly switch to "duh, I totally see it coming".
 
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Skittzo said:
It's unlikely mass production of these. chips has begun.

The global chip supply situation is a lot more complex than most people seem to understand, an SoC being produced on Samsung 8nm as Drake is rumored to be will not have serious supply issues because Samsung's 8nm process is not nearly as in demand as, say TSMC's 7nm process. This will likely be in short supply when it launches but not anywhere near to the extent the PS5 was.

Probably more like the Switch OLED's situation.
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Back in late June, I was told the Switch 4K/DLSS was on 8nm, which I believe I mentioned somewhere last year.
 
Skittzo said:
Orin NX has a bunch of automotive components that'll be completely useless for a Switch-like device. It will absolutely need to be cut down from Orin NX, especially since Orin NX's minimum operating power is 15W IIRC.
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Oh yeah, of course. Those bits will be inevitably stripped out, just like how the A53 cores were stripped out of the Switch's Tegra X1 variant; but in terms of the parts that actually matter (Cuda cores, RAM size, memory bandwidth etc), I would expect the T239 to match or exceed what we're seeing with T234.
 
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