StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[NineTailSage]

Just like cars, honestly. People always quote horsepower because it's an easy number to point to but there are so many other things that influence a car's performance (the car's overall weight, where in the rev range the engine makes its power, transmission gear ratios, wheel size/weight, etc) that cars with less horsepower can be just as fast (or faster!) than cars with more.

Every time people have brought up the TFLOPs comparison I've thought about how in the early 90s Toyota released the 320hp Supra against the 405hp Corvette ZR1 and despite the almost 100hp difference they both ran a 13-second quarter mile.

Even if Drake runs the same or slightly less overall power numbers, that's nowhere near the full story.

I believe this is a great analogy and in the past I have used references to engine horsepower as well...
There are so many layers that factor into the end results not relating to just the sum of their parts on paper.

Which is also why I like Nintendo being with Nvidia because it gives us another perspective of what their architecture is capable of in a closed off environment. The RTX cards haven't really showcase all of the technology Nvidia packs into their architecture because most games are built around maximizing compatibility with as many capable PC's as possible.

By the mid-life/end of Switch 2, I fully expect 1st and 2nd party games to take full advantage of the Nvidia hardware using every trick and feature imaginable.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Yep. Most games should be 1080 after dlss. The separator will be what they are upscaled from.

Also I believe 1440p after dlss docked, will be the most common resolution.

1440p?I don't think a lot of big games in docked mode can reach that resolution, being able to 1080p and boosting RT performance would be very good already

 

[Hermii]

1440p?I don't think a lot of big games in docked mode can reach that resolution, being able to 1080p and boosting RT performance would be very good already

1440p dlss is about double frame time as dlss 1080p.

Assuming docked clock speeds are bout 2x portable, it should be a similar frame time.

 

[omniryu]

A big reason the Switch 1 had such a good attach rate was because there were a lot of great low-mid budget games that people loved getting for it.

This. Nintendo will probably have a handful of super large open world games where the peachfuzz on their character skin has subsurface scattering and they spend 3 years getting the physics of Cape Mario's cape right.



BTW, when I was young, Super Mario World was my first Mario game and I thought that Cape Mario WAS Super Mario. Can you blame me? I mean we know one guy who had a Cape and is 'Super'.

 

[omniryu]

Yep. Most games should be 1080 after dlss. The separator will be what they are upscaled from.

Also I believe 1440p after dlss docked, will be the most common resolution.

What about the small indie games, the 'ok' anime game? The massive amount of PS4 games as well? I think we will see a lot more 4K than expected.

 

[Hermii]

What about the small indie games, the 'ok' anime game? The massive amount of PS4 games as well? I think we will see a lot more 4K than expected.

If DFs dlss analysis is anything to go by (I know it has its problems), 4k dlss isn't really viable. If it can do 4k native, great. But I don't think it will be common.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

这。任天堂可能会推出一些超大型开放世界游戏，其中角色皮肤上的桃绒毛具有次表面散射，并且他们花了 3 年时间来完善马里奥斗篷的物理特性。



顺便说一句，当我年轻的时候，《超级马里奥世界》是我的第一个马里奥游戏，我认为海角马里奥就是超级马里奥。你能怪我吗？我的意思是我们认识一个人，他有一件斗篷，而且很“超级”。

So I'm still of the opinion that there's no way Nintendo can develop two open world game projects at the same time, it would be a huge development cost for Nintendo moving into the 1080p era, so Nintendo will only keep the Legend of Zelda in open world development for the foreseeable future

 

[Semi Lazy Gamer]

So I'm still of the opinion that there's no way Nintendo can develop two open world game projects at the same time, it would be a huge development cost for Nintendo moving into the 1080p era, so Nintendo will only keep the Legend of Zelda in open world development for the foreseeable future

Since we're on this: I could see 3D Mario going open world, but keeping parts of the sandbox closed down until the player reaches a certain threshold, Bowser's Fury style.

 

[Concernt]

So I'm still of the opinion that there's no way Nintendo can develop two open world game projects at the same time, it would be a huge development cost for Nintendo moving into the 1080p era, so Nintendo will only keep the Legend of Zelda in open world development for the foreseeable future

Nintendo is not a mom and pop shop, Wii U output 1080p in 2012, Nintendo has released two open world games and a semi open world game in the same year before, 2017, and NG Switch's TV output is expected to target 4K, maybe hovering around 1440p.

 

[Hermii]

Nintendo is not a mom and pop shop, Wii U output 1080p in 2012, Nintendo has released two open world games and a semi open world game in the same year before, 2017, and NG Switch's TV output is expected to target 4K, maybe hovering around 1440p.

Expected by some people maybe.

Not by me.

 

[Concernt]

Expected by some people maybe.

Not by me.

You don't expect NG Switch to output 4K?

That's rather odd.

Outputting and targeting 4K is not the same as achieving it, in the same way Nintendo Switch targets and outputs 1080p, of course it isn't always achieving that. However, obviously, much like how there are some 1080 games on Nintendo Switch, the next generation will likely have some native 4K games to call its own.

 

[Hermii]

You don't expect NG Switch to output 4K?

That's rather odd.

Output and targeting 4K is not the same as achieving it, in the same way Nintendo Switch targets and outputs 1080p, of course it isn't always achieving that. However, obviously, much like how there are some 1080 games on Nintendo Switch, the next generation will likely have some native 4K games to call its own.

I misread. Yea, output. That's just because it's the standard for tvs, has nothing to do with rendering.

 

[Concernt]

I misread. Yea, output. That's just because it's the standard for tvs, has nothing to do with rendering.

Well, no, it does. Outputting 4K means developers should and almost certainly will try to bring the resolution up to try and meet it. I don't expect many will achieve a perfect clean 4K, but a resolution target is of course relevant to game development. There's a reason that, for instance, Nintendo endeavours to get their games to the 1080p target on Switch. They don't settle for 720p- they try for 900p, they implement DRS, or they use reconstruction. The same would absolutely unequivocally apply, just now the target is 4K. Plenty of 1440p games are probably likely, like we have 900p games now, lower will happen with some games. Games that can manage 4K, be it native, reconstructed, spacially or temporally upscaled, will almost certainly take that chance. Again, targets matter to game development.

 

[Steve]

Expected by some people maybe.

Not by me.

I’m personally expecting DLSS 4k and smaller titles get the native 4k treatment, like 2D Mario, captain toad or older ports and remastered, but I don’t expect any big third party having 4k though.

 

[omniryu]

If DFs dlss analysis is anything to go by (I know it has its problems), 4k dlss isn't really viable. If it can do 4k native, great. But I don't think it will be common.

Didn't they had that mock T239? The Rtx 2050 4 gb card at 500 MHz and up? It was running death stranding in 4K. I mean I no it isn't accurate, but the Switch 2 will get a lot less demanding games than that and I think it will do fine.

So I'm still of the opinion that there's no way Nintendo can develop two open world game projects at the same time, it would be a huge development cost for Nintendo moving into the 1080p era, so Nintendo will only keep the Legend of Zelda in open world development for the foreseeable future

I think they can afford it. Just one of their 65 (top ten) titles that sold millions can fund two or more huge open world game.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Nintendo is not a mom and pop shop, Wii U output 1080p in 2012, Nintendo has released two open world games and a semi open world game in the same year before, 2017, and NG Switch's TV output is expected to target 4K, maybe hovering around 1440p.

I'm just cautioning that development costs will grow accordingly with a further increase in resolution, and that they should stick to filling the new console's lineup with multiple small to medium cost quality games (including the new 3d Mario of course).Also I don't really know what "another open world game" you're talking about for 2017

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Didn't they had that mock T239? The Rtx 2050 4 gb card at 500 MHz and up? It was running death stranding in 4K. I mean I no it isn't accurate, but the Switch 2 will get a lot kess demanding games than that and j think it will do fine.

I think they can afford it. Just one of their 65 (top ten) titles that sold millions can fund two or more huge open world game.

Yokoi Gunpei's warnings are still very important, and while I don't know what the exact leanings of the famiboards forums are, my point is clear: as the cost of technology rises even higher, Nintendo's solution to maintaining its strengths (prioritizing gameplay) should be to stick with just The Legend of Zelda as an "uncapped budget" project, and the rest should be moved closer to small and medium-sized projects.

 

[Steve]

Didn't they had that mock T239? The Rtx 2050 4 gb card at 500 MHz and up? It was running death stranding in 4K. I mean I no it isn't accurate, but the Switch 2 will get a lot kess demanding games than that and j think it will do fine.

Plus there’s more variable that we don’t have information on, like Ram, bandwidth
And much more.

Since the only games that has been tested on the switch 2, which we have small information on is Matrix awakening demo and Botw 4k 60fps and both used DLSS .

 

[Goodtwin]

Expected by some people maybe.

Not by me.

Until we see evidence that 4K DLSS is viable, it's reasonable to believe that it cost too much frame time to work. Not saying that new information couldn't surface saying otherwise, but current benchmarks give good reason to question it. 1440p is very possible, but I wouldn't write off 1080 via DLSS being a rather common choice. The frame time slice is really low for 1080p, and T239 likely has the pure horsepower to render a lot of games at higher settings at 720p and then scale with DLSS to 1080p. 1080p scales very nicely on a 4K TV, so a game rendering at 720p on high settings with great AA could look nicer than rendering at 480p scaling to 1440p. We honestly don't know. What we do know is DLSS isn't free and T239 is a closer match to Xbox Series S than X. There is a reason Microsoft capped Series S output resolution to 1440p, and it still falls short of that resolution quite often, despite being more capable than T239.

 

[Kenka]

Quite frankly, I have no idea how well the T239 will run modern games at 1440p. Obviously, games won't run optimally from a performance or even maybe an IQ point of view, but how compromised will the visuals become as we move on in this gen of consoles, that's the question.

 

[Giancarlo]

Yokoi Gunpei's warnings are still very important, and while I don't know what the exact leanings of the famiboards forums are, my point is clear: as the cost of technology rises even higher, Nintendo's solution to maintaining its strengths (prioritizing gameplay) should be to stick with just The Legend of Zelda as an "uncapped budget" project, and the rest should be moved closer to small and medium-sized projects.

no mater in making smaller/big scope games, Nintendo will still have to face the issues of a significant increase in development cost, they can find way to reduce the budget, but having a Kirby cost near the same of triple AA game not.

 

[JesusSaves7]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, since DLSS often updates with new features, is it reasonable to assume that the NG Switch could be periodically improved as DLSS improves?
Thank you!

 

[ILikeFeet]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, since DLSS often updates with new features, is it reasonable to assume that the NG Switch could be periodically improved as DLSS improves?
Thank you!

Depends on how Nintendo updates the version of dlss. I could require the game to update to newer versions or the os.

But, yes, over time, dlss will get better on Drake

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Native 720p resolution is no longer sufficient for today's visuals, my personal expectation for switch2 portable mode is native 800-900p resolution, boosted to 1080p via dlss

That's extremely generous for DLSS. Even 720->1080 is what counts as Quality mode, usually the highest selectable option in PC games that isn't just DLAA. Really if your game can already reach 900p, on Switch 2 it's possible it would be less efficient to use DLSS to get the rest of the way, unless you just preferred DLSS's anti-aliasing.

What about the small indie games, the 'ok' anime game? The massive amount of PS4 games as well? I think we will see a lot more 4K than expected.

Just because a game isn't AA release or is an old port doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be cheap / computationally efficient, or Switch wouldn't have seen so many sub-native ports of X360 or even PS2 games.

So I'm still of the opinion that there's no way Nintendo can develop two open world game projects at the same time, it would be a huge development cost for Nintendo moving into the 1080p era, so Nintendo will only keep the Legend of Zelda in open world development for the foreseeable future

They're not exactly open world in the same way, but both giant Zeldas were also released within a year of a new giant Xenoblade.

Pardon me if this has been asked before, since DLSS often updates with new features, is it reasonable to assume that the NG Switch could be periodically improved as DLSS improves?
Thank you!

Don't look at it as the NG Switch itself improving, but later games (or later updated games) could see improvements over earlier releases due to that, yeah. As is the case with PC games.

 

[omniryu]

Yokoi Gunpei's warnings are still very important, and while I don't know what the exact leanings of the famiboards forums are, my point is clear: as the cost of technology rises even higher, Nintendo's solution to maintaining its strengths (prioritizing gameplay) should be to stick with just The Legend of Zelda as an "uncapped budget" project, and the rest should be moved closer to small and medium-sized projects.

Oh,I am not saying they should go for more big budget games. I am saying they have the capabilities of going for more.

Plus there’s more variable that we don’t have information on, like Ram, bandwidth
And much more.

Since the only games that has been tested on the switch 2, which we have small information on is Matrix awakening demo and Botw 4k 60fps and both used DLSS .

Steve, let's do it me and you. I order some Ninja clothes on Temu and we will sneak in Nintendo's headquarter and get as much info as possible. What do you say?

Just because a game isn't AA release or is an old port doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be cheap / computationally efficient, or Switch wouldn't have seen so many sub-native ports of X360 or even PS2 games.

I am sorry? Sub-native?

 

[navierStokes]

Got a RTX 3050 [55W] + i5-1240P laptop

Tried to play around in Afterburner to underclock it, lowest it'll go is ~20W with a locked frequency of 682 Mhz (although I'm not 100% of its validity). Also reduced the memory speed to its lowest value, just to get an idea of an edge case for this GPU. Wish I had an RTX 4050 also to play around with, but eitherway I was just curious how it could perform at its lowest.

It's definitely lower in performance than its stock profile, so the settings are doing something.
I'll try to play around with it more to validate the results, but that 4GB is a limit to stress (and record) some things .

Played around with it @ 1280 x 720 with and without RT. I did perform separate "runs" or tests.
Initially with DLSS Quality and then DLSS Balanced.

I did not have time for editing or recording the metrics + post-processing , so you'll have to take it as it is.

00:00 Settings overview (low settings)
00:50 1280x720 Native
02:20 1280x720 DLSS Quality
03:30 1280x720 Native + RT Medium
04:55 1280x720 DLSS Quality + RT Medium
06:50 1280x720 DLSS Quality + RT Medium

00:00 Settings overview (low settings)
00:55 1280x720 Native
03:25 1280x720 DLSS Balanced
04:40 1280x720 Native + RT Medium
06:10 1280x720 DLSS Balanced+ RT Medium
07:55 1920x1080 DLSS Balanced+ RT Medium

As somewhat of a baseline, I also saw how the Qualcomm snapdragon X previewed by Geekerwan a few months ago @ 1080p native - rasterised low settings;
I can confirm that the RTX 3050 I have gets around the same metrics, although I presume what they test is primarily the starting area/corridor. In actual gameplay it's actually lower and I'd say it's ~80 fps.

(PS: YT compression is at play so 1280x720 does look worse).
(PS2: Sorry for my gameplay, it's been a while )

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

I am sorry? Sub-native?

Below the native rendering resolution of 720p while portable (Due to a 720p screen) or the 1080p output of Docked. That's what they mean by sub-native. A game like Prime Remastered which output 600p while Portable and 900p while Docked is sub-native. While Mario Wonder which is 720p Portable and 1080p Docked would be native.

 

[omniryu]

Below the native rendering resolution of 720p while portable (Due to a 720p screen) or the 1080p output of Docked. That's what they mean by sub-native. A game like Prime Remastered which output 600p while Portable and 900p while Docked is sub-native. While Mario Wonder which is 720p Portable and 1080p Docked would be native.

Ok, I was thinking of something different. Sorry.

 

[NineTailSage]

I'm just cautioning that development costs will grow accordingly with a further increase in resolution, and that they should stick to filling the new console's lineup with multiple small to medium cost quality games (including the new 3d Mario of course).Also I don't really know what "another open world game" you're talking about for 2017

Seeing as how the development cost of BoTW rivals that of Spider-Man on PS4 proves that the bulk of the cost as games get larger and hardware becomes more powerful, Is in the details of the world that need to be created.

There are options developers can take such as using things the like of Photogrammetry, procedurally generated worlds or Ai generated assets, but in doing so the games might not feel unique. The balancing act is how can developers incorporate all available options to minimize developers time in focusing on the minutiae (that gamers may or may not see) and focus on the elements that make gaming special.

Until we see evidence that 4K DLSS is viable, it's reasonable to believe that it cost too much frame time to work. Not saying that new information couldn't surface saying otherwise, but current benchmarks give good reason to question it. 1440p is very possible, but I wouldn't write off 1080 via DLSS being a rather common choice. The frame time slice is really low for 1080p, and T239 likely has the pure horsepower to render a lot of games at higher settings at 720p and then scale with DLSS to 1080p. 1080p scales very nicely on a 4K TV, so a game rendering at 720p on high settings with great AA could look nicer than rendering at 480p scaling to 1440p. We honestly don't know. What we do know is DLSS isn't free and T239 is a closer match to Xbox Series S than X. There is a reason Microsoft capped Series S output resolution to 1440p, and it still falls short of that resolution quite often, despite being more capable than T239.

Well I fully expect that 4k DLSS will be viable, but as gamers we have to have real expectations of what might make that jump.
An open world Zelda game created for Switch 2 I wouldn't expect to be 4k DLSS, but Pikimin 5 or the next Animal Crossing I could definitely see showcasing 4k visuals.

In Digital Foundry's "2050" mock Switch 2 demonstration, Rich instantly offered when trying to increase the resolution, the RTX 2050 only has 4GB of memory and starving for more.

Unlike Sony and Microsoft, what I don't want for Nintendo is to feel safe in making 200+ million dollar budget games because they know they can sell 20-30 million copies multiple times over. Again between Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 I don't see what justified the massive increase of budget...

 

[Steve]

Steve, let's do it me and you. I order some Ninja clothes on Temu and we will sneak in Nintendo's headquarter and get as much info as possible. What do you say?

If we're really doing it.... Than we'll either make out alive or have fate worse then death.

 

[omniryu]

If we're really doing it.... Than we'll either make out alive or have fate worse then death.

I am down brother!

 

[navierStokes]

[-snip-]

I turned on Whispermode, which does stay near its lower clock speed and although there's an FPS cap in place that I can't remove (I'm looking into it), I recorded some footage as it does show some scaling w.r.t. wattage at certain resolution;

No RT @ 720p = ~10W
RT @ 720p = ~15W
RT @ 1080p =~20W

Again the laptop GPU is larger than Drake will be, but I was wondering about the edge case with this GPU and I'll try to play around more in the future if there's an interest, I still have to set up quite a few things .



edit; Obviously you can’t make any conclusions from this.

 

[NineTailSage]

I turned on Whispermode, which does stay near its lower clock speed and although there's an FPS cap in place that I can't remove (I'm looking into it), I recorded some footage as it does show some scaling w.r.t. wattage at certain resolution;

No RT @ 720p = ~10W
RT @ 720p = ~15W
RT @ 1080p =~20W

Again the laptop GPU is larger than Drake will be, but I was wondering about the edge case with this GPU and I'll try to play around more in the future if there's an interest, I still have to set up quite a few things .



edit; Obviously you can’t make any conclusions from this.

I have to admit, in watching that video of Control, Remedy seems like they want to make a superhero game... (insert Scarlet Witch)

I wish there was even an 8GB version of the 3050 laptop. As that would probably give us a better idea of the image quality we could see on Switch 2 in handheld and docked...

 

[omniryu]

In Digital Foundry's "2050" mock Switch 2 demonstration, Rich instantly offered when trying to increase the resolution, the RTX 2050 only has 4GB of memory and starving for more.

I think the question is what are the majority of switch 2 games will look like. A PS5 base game will probably be 1080p dock with DLSS.

I turned on Whispermode, which does stay near its lower clock speed and although there's an FPS cap in place that I can't remove (I'm looking into it), I recorded some footage as it does show some scaling w.r.t. wattage at certain resolution;

No RT @ 720p = ~10W
RT @ 720p = ~15W
RT @ 1080p =~20W

Again the laptop GPU is larger than Drake will be, but I was wondering about the edge case with this GPU and I'll try to play around more in the future if there's an interest, I still have to set up quite a few things .



edit; Obviously you can’t make any conclusions from this.

Hmm, I know this a bit off topic. But control is the only game I wouldn't get that I am sure it is a safe bet to a switch 2 game. It felt like a drag to play.

I have to admit, in watching that video of Control, Remedy seems like they want to make a superhero game... (insert Scarlet Witch)

Had Disney built their actual studio to the level that rivals their film studio, I am betting that we would have just as a MGU that could have even been better than the MCU. Also, improve Lucas film. While. I am glad that Jedi Survivor series is a good quality game they could have so much more.

A well connected universe for both. No license war. Games that can be on all platforms, and probably Disney gaming studio would have a repository so they can preserve their games for anything unforseen... idk, they didn't. We will have a scatter mess. Xbox and Nintendo players will be denied marvel spiderman. Xbox and Sony fans will be denied MUA 3.
Weird weird weird. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[oldpuck]

so Switch sucessor still have dynamic resolution? very few games that will be able to run at 720p?

Native 720p resolution is no longer sufficient for today's visuals, my personal expectation for switch2 portable mode is native 800-900p resolution, boosted to 1080p via dlss

Reset your expectations. You'll get 540p. Or lower!

There are games that run 1080p or lower on PS5 right now. Developers will always be pushing visuals, and "looks good enough on a 4k TV, 6 feet away" is going to be the standard. No amount of power is going to get you native resolution all the time, not in a console. Hell, not in a top-of-the-line PC! The current standard is to build games whose highest settings exceed the power of the most capable graphics cards to "future proof" games so they can continue to offer even higher experiences on new hardware.

In this environment comes Nintendo with

1. The least powerful console
2. Equipped with the best upscaler
3. Who hasn’t shipped a major native-res game almost the entire Switch generation

4x upscaling is DLSS’s headline feature, and it’s default mode. It should be the baseline expectation. At least until we see some games come out.

 

[Vanillalite]

Reset your expectations. You'll get 540p. Or lower!

There are games that run 1080p or lower on PS5 right now. Developers will always be pushing visuals, and "looks good enough on a 4k TV, 6 feet away" is going to be the standard. No amount of power is going to get you native resolution all the time, not in a console. Hell, not in a top-of-the-line PC! The current standard is to build games whose highest settings exceed the power of the most capable graphics cards to "future proof" games so they can continue to offer even higher experiences on new hardware.

In this environment comes Nintendo with

1. The least powerful console
2. Equipped with the best upscaler
3. Who hasn’t shipped a major native-res game almost the entire Switch generation

4x upscaling is DLSS’s headline feature, and it’s default mode. It should be the baseline expectation. At least until we see some games come out.

While I understand the sentiment and agree on general let’s not act like the PS5 and Series X have a ton of sub 1080p upscaled games.

 

[ILikeFeet]

While I understand the sentiment and agree on general let’s not act like the PS5 and Series X have a ton of sub 1080p upscaled games.

it's not so much that they're outliers, but more that it shows that devs will go low if they feel the need. much like we shouldn't expect many 4K output Drake games, they will happen. 540p and 360p internal Drake games will happen too and we shouldn't be shocked when they do

 

[NineTailSage]

Reset your expectations. You'll get 540p. Or lower!

There are games that run 1080p or lower on PS5 right now. Developers will always be pushing visuals, and "looks good enough on a 4k TV, 6 feet away" is going to be the standard. No amount of power is going to get you native resolution all the time, not in a console. Hell, not in a top-of-the-line PC! The current standard is to build games whose highest settings exceed the power of the most capable graphics cards to "future proof" games so they can continue to offer even higher experiences on new hardware.

In this environment comes Nintendo with

1. The least powerful console
2. Equipped with the best upscaler
3. Who hasn’t shipped a major native-res game almost the entire Switch generation

4x upscaling is DLSS’s headline feature, and it’s default mode. It should be the baseline expectation. At least until we see some games come out.

480p and 540p DLSS'd to 1080p actually looks pretty Impressive on an 8" screen.
Even for more demanding games, in handheld it wouldn't be the same concessions that needed to be made say for Witcher 3 on Switch...

 

[Kazuyamishima]

it's not so much that they're outliers, but more that it shows that devs will go low if they feel the need. much like we shouldn't expect many 4K output Drake games, they will happen. 540p and 360p internal Drake games will happen too and we shouldn't be shocked when they do

Especially because of dlss

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

It's a complex issue, I think "chronically sluggish and stagnant" is a better way to describe games that didn't live up to Nintendo's expectations, not forgetting that Zelda was a game that averaged less than 5 million copies sold before BOTW, and according to the usual thinking, the series was stopped a long time ago for such a huge investment with such a small return.It was stopped a long time ago, but in fact it wasn't stopped and has survived to this day.

It’s definitely complex but I’d don’t think describing it as “chronically sluggish & stagnant” entirely encompasses how to talk about Nintendo’s expectations; it will rely largely on context & IP. We can see an example in this with Samus Returns back on the 3DS.

 

[oldpuck]

While I understand the sentiment and agree on general let’s not act like the PS5 and Series X have a ton of sub 1080p upscaled games.

Wasn’t suggesting there were tons - but not for nothing that every recent game Digital Foundry has covered is on the list.

The classic definition of a generational upgrade is 2-4x minimum jump. We should expect, as we head into the PS5 Pro/PS6 cross gen era, 2-4x upscaling to become the norm.

it's not so much that they're outliers, but more that it shows that devs will go low if they feel the need. much like we shouldn't expect many 4K output Drake games, they will happen. 540p and 360p internal Drake games will happen too and we shouldn't be shocked when they do

Exactly.

 

[Dakhil]

My personal expectation is that AAA developers that want the highest possible image quality are probably going to target a range of 1440p to 1800p for TV mode, and 720p to 900p for handheld mode, after applying DLSS.

 

[Aishasghost]

Honestly the main reason I'm looking forward to this thing is because I just want a device that will fix existing games that either have garbage resolutions or significant performance issues. Case in point, Xenoblade 2, Hyrule Warriors Age of calamity, most "impossible" ports etc.

 

[brainchild]

I think this will go a long way in pushing high fidelity character models that can scale down to current/future handhelds and mobile devices which support Nanite. The NPCs always stuck out like a sore thumb in The Matrix demo so it would be cool to see the demo again with high quality Nanite-enabled skeletal meshes.

EDIT:

I really see this taking off with games that have large crowds, even sports games. Impostors can be made to look decent with the right technique but this a much, much better approach.

 

[Zedark]

Until we see evidence that 4K DLSS is viable, it's reasonable to believe that it cost too much frame time to work. Not saying that new information couldn't surface saying otherwise, but current benchmarks give good reason to question it. 1440p is very possible, but I wouldn't write off 1080 via DLSS being a rather common choice. The frame time slice is really low for 1080p, and T239 likely has the pure horsepower to render a lot of games at higher settings at 720p and then scale with DLSS to 1080p. 1080p scales very nicely on a 4K TV, so a game rendering at 720p on high settings with great AA could look nicer than rendering at 480p scaling to 1440p. We honestly don't know. What we do know is DLSS isn't free and T239 is a closer match to Xbox Series S than X. There is a reason Microsoft capped Series S output resolution to 1440p, and it still falls short of that resolution quite often, despite being more capable than T239.

We have seen in previous DF analysis that Doom Eternal had about a 1.8 ms overhead for DLSS 4K on the RTX 2060 card. The T239 is quite close to this spec in terms of RT performance. So I would say we do have evidence that DLSS 4K is viable. The big question right now is why DLSS 4K is so incredibly expensive on Death Stranding compared to somrthing like Doom Eternal.

 

[Thombias]

Reset your expectations. You'll get 540p. Or lower!

There are games that run 1080p or lower on PS5 right now. Developers will always be pushing visuals, and "looks good enough on a 4k TV, 6 feet away" is going to be the standard. No amount of power is going to get you native resolution all the time, not in a console. Hell, not in a top-of-the-line PC! The current standard is to build games whose highest settings exceed the power of the most capable graphics cards to "future proof" games so they can continue to offer even higher experiences on new hardware.

In this environment comes Nintendo with

1. The least powerful console
2. Equipped with the best upscaler
3. Who hasn’t shipped a major native-res game almost the entire Switch generation

4x upscaling is DLSS’s headline feature, and it’s default mode. It should be the baseline expectation. At least until we see some games come out.

100% agree with this. I recently bought my sister a laptop with a Ryzen 5600H + RTX 3050 Ti and we tried some games on it. To me 1080p native and DLSS performance mode with 1080p output both looked the same, except for that we got really great framerates with DLSS enabled.

That was all on a 15.6 inch laptop screen and i'd say i have pretty good eyes when it comes to noticing artifacts and imperfections. Now imagine that upscaling on a 7-8 inch handheld screen. I bet even the most enthusiastic gamers would have a hard time telling if it's DLSS'ed or not on a screen of that small size.

Docked mode will be interesting though with having to output 4K. I'd imagine 1440p or lower (like 1296p) will be common for 1st & 2nd party titles targeting 60fps, the more demanding 30fps titles of those will likely target a range of 1440p to 4K and 3rd party ports of PS5/XSX games getting the 1080p 30fps treatment.
Of course all of them with DLSS enabled on performance mode.

 

[gonanzir]

edit:wrong information.

 

[Steve]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
2024年进口网络游戏审批信息

If I knew Chinese I would be excited.

Chat can someone translate.

 

[gonanzir]

If I knew Chinese I would be excited.

Chat can someone translate.

In fact, this one is a little hard to understand even for those who understand Chinese, maybe just game card，but it wasn't called that before and just call nintendo switch
edit:now I don't think it's switch2 because of Ricky and Clank also in 复合载体

 

[Ojoloco]

2024年进口网络游戏审批信息 idont know 复合载体 mean

What is this?