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Discussion You've been tasked with ensuring that future generations have access to Nintendo's DS, 3DS, Wii and Wii U games. How do you go about it?

I wonder if it would have been that difficult to sell the WiiU and 3DS games via the website. The devices are connected to accounts as the Memories thing shows. The download service is remaining so they're keeping a record of what you own. The payment infrastructure for the website is already in place. The shutdown is saving on having to maintain expensive financial transaction infrastructure through apps on the devices, but this way you don't need to.
 
I'm with @julian maybe Switch 2 can have some sort of wireless casting ability built in? What was that low-latency wiiU tech, Miracast? Something like that.

And then boom, DS, 3DS, WiiU all handled.

And wow, that would truly realize the WiiU concept of both off-main-acreen play and asymmetrical play.

I would also settle for the emulated approach of stacked/side-by-side screens as well, at least for DS. You can do it, NERD! (After u finish fixing N64 emu)
 
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DistractedByPixels said:
Arrrr
Click to expand...
😆 I was gonna make that joke too, but yeah I often wonder why they don't want more of my money in various facets.

Besides offering more easy-to-produce paid content, Including expanded merch opportunities and improving my ability to spend money on the eShop.

It's got to be worth the cost to hire/deploy personnel on these types of ventures.

Make customers more happy, make them more money, make shareholders more gree satisfied w/ earnings. 🤷
 
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This is a subject I've thought about a fair amount. I'm going to make the implicit assumptions that the hardware will eventually be capable of emulating all of this. Probably only the DS parts and maybe 3DS and Wii are actually practical on current hardware.

Overall my master plan would look something like this:

First things first: every (non-VC, emulator-ception is fun, but it would be preferable for emulation to be natively available) game that has ever been available digitally on any of the four platforms should be brought forward to the Switch eShop to the fullest extent legally possible, with purchases for all 4 platforms carried over via Wii U and 3DS. Physical games that were never available digitally should be added VC-style (NSO is also an acceptable option for DS). In an ideal world, there would also be physical adapters for carts and discs, but I don't expect those to happen.

In terms of specific compatibility issues:

Wiimotes (and Wii peripherals more generally): While classic controller can trivially be mapped to Switch controls, and best-effort mappings of Wiimote controls to Joy-Cons should certainly be provided (with gyro subbing for IR), the two controllers are really very separate beasts. Fortunately, the original controllers should be compatible with Switch with the appropriate drivers, so in my proposal, Nintendo would simply re-issue them along a new, USB-powered sensor bar.

Camera and microphone:
Ideally, these would go on newer iterations of Joy-Cons/Pro Controller. Bandwidth could be an issue, but I suspect limiting controller count while they're active could deal with that. If that's not feasible, putting them on the main system body would work for handheld mode, at least.

Dual-Screen/Gamepad:
There are a few different options that would make sense for various scenarios. Many dual screen games can be adequately represented on a single screen with sufficient screen layout options (including various sizes, positions, picture-in-picture, etc.). It is not the most faithful experience, but will be good enough for a lot of titles. For a more faithful DS/3DS experience, the option of choice would be an official version of the flip grip that lets you use the system vertically, which I think is fairly self-explanatory. For Wii U on the other hand, I'd put out a free app that lets you pair a second Switch as a controller and have it act as a Gamepad.

DS slot 2:
I'm pretty sure everything a first party game did with this could be either done via HLE or mounting save data from the hypothetical GBA NSO. Nothing short of a hardware adapter is going to work for the few games that had more controller-like DS Option Paks.

DS/3DS IR Communication:
Really feels like the right Joy Con should be able to do this, but I'm not 100% sure. If not, local wireless exists.

DS-Wii communication:
In principal, this should be trivial enough that it's not even worth mentioning, but there's a few logistical issues that would potentially arise due to needing to work with save data on the same system. With enough CPU power the system could emulate both systems at once, but making sure the system is permissive enough that you can move around your save data and use two separate systems would be sufficient until then.

Save data:
I want to be able to import old save data. They could release apps for the older systems to facilitate this.

Stereoscopic 3D:
If it was up to me, I'd make the screen support this.

Pokémon:
Direct Home support for all the relevant titles would simplify a lot of things.

Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection:
In principle, the online services for all DS and Wii games could be restored via patching. The main reason this didn't happen originally is because the platforms were dead and patching wasn't feasible.

That's probably all the major issues that I can think of at least.
 
This might be an overly complicated solution, but FWIW Quest headsets detect location/orientation by way of cameras examining the surrounding area, removing the need for external sensors. So it would be possible to make a controller with better pointing and no sensor bar, just... not as cheap or simple.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
This might be an overly complicated solution, but FWIW Quest headsets detect location/orientation by way of cameras examining the surrounding area, removing the need for external sensors. So it would be possible to make a controller with better pointing and no sensor bar, just... not as cheap or simple.
Click to expand...

I did wonder about putting in a TV detection camera into the front of the joy-con. It wouldn't have to be a good camera as it is only trying to detect the outline of the TV.

An alternative the just crossed my mind is a simple RF locator peripheral. It would be able to be detected by a receiver in the joy-con without the need for actual site. And it doesn't matter where it is as long as it is in a fixed place. The point of this is to provide an external reference to counter gyro drift. With that, the gyro will be able to replicate IR pointer perfectly.
 
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Perfect thread for me to post some ideas i've been thinking about for a good while. Definitely a lot more fantastical than what I had in mind, because I can't see Nintendo ever doing any of this, but this makes it more fun!


The launch of the Switch's successor will be the most opportune time to rethink their retro game output, but I don't think they'll entirely remain stagnant with NSO until then either. We'll get Game Boy and Game Boy Color titles in the near future, hopefully Game Boy Advance eventually, and probably PC Engine since it seems fairly easy to get Konami to agree to that (it was on Wii and Wii U VC). This is the baseline i'll be working with when laying out additions and changes.

So, where to start? Scrap the individual NSO apps. Scrap regional apps. Instead, consolodate all the first-party platforms into one single application: Nintendo Classics. Mega Drive appears to be managed individually as-is; they aren't even displayed on the same page as the Nintendo platforms on Nintendo's site or the NSO app on the Switch Home Menu; so i'll assume any third-party platforms would retain this independence.

Alright, time to open the app:

FfALQrC.png


Here's what you'll see after a quick splash screen. Very similar in design to the existing Nintendo Switch Online applications, but the front page is now essentially a selection of folder for each platform. I'll go through the basic features (or new additions) for each:
  • Famicom
    • Kachikachi emulator reused from FC Mini / NSO.
    • Added support for Zapper emulation, controlled via gyro aiming.
  • Super Famicom
    • Canoe emulator reused from SFC Mini / NSO.
    • Added support for Mouse and Super Scope emulation, controlled via gyro aiming and touch support for handheld mode. USB mouse compatability available for those titles too (ala Game Builder Garage).
  • Nintendo 64
    • Hovercraft emulator should hopefully be overhauled by this time to eliminate the major emulation issues.
    • Added support for Controller Pak, Transfer Pak and Nintendo 64DD emulation. F-Zero X Expansion Kit is included in the service.
  • Game Boy
    • GB emulator developed by NERD; might already be used on the Zelda Game & Watch.
    • Should already include support for Game Boy Color / Super Game Boy display modes, local and online Link Cable support, and emulation of game-specific features like rumble (Pokemon Pinball) and accelerometer (Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble) for titles never before rereleased.
  • Virtual Boy
    • New VB emulator developed by NERD.
    • Black and white filter available.
    • Should support a new Nintendo VR solution if the next platform has one.
  • Game Boy Advance
    • Updated version of the GBA emulator used for WIi U VC, developed by M2.
    • Dark filter removed; smooth filter still available as an option; now supports rewinds.
  • Nintendo GameCube
    • Hagi emulator reused from Super Mario 3D All-Stars.
    • Light and heavy trigger presses mapped to L/R and ZL/ZR respectively. Supports original GameCube controllers via the adapter.
  • Nintendo DS
    • Updated version of Hachihachi, the DS emulator used for WIi U VC, developed by NERD.
    • Dark filter removed; screen display options still available; internal resolution increase feature now available to users.
    • Touch screen controlled via gyro (docked) or touch (tabletop / handheld).
  • Wii
    • Now entirely emulated via Hagi, unlike Super Mario Galaxy in 3D All-Stars. Nintendo's next hardware should be capable enough for it.
    • Supports original Wii Remotes. New USB Sensor Bar available for purchase from online Nintendo Stores.
  • Nintendo 3DS
    • New 3DS emulator developed by NERD. Nintendo's next hardware should be capable enough for it.
    • Touch screen controlled via gyro (docked) or touch (tabletop / handheld); just like DS. Screen display options carry over too.
Oh, and of course, control remapping should be a given for every platform.

Nintendo Archive is an idea i've shared around these parts before: a collection of rare and previously unreleased Nintendo titles and pre-release demos from across all of their systems. This is where you'd find Nintendo's Satellaview lineup (with the original radio audio and features like chapter select); unreleased titles like Star Fox 2, Sound Fantasy and Gimmick Land; long sought-after demos like Shoshinkai '95 Super Mario 64 and Spaceworld '99 Mother 3; etc. I'll explain the Game Spotlight button later.

Now, how about we enter one of these platform libraries?

m2L9qFx.png


Way earlier into this post I said 'scrap regional apps', and here's where that comes into play. I believe there should be a global unified app with access to every regional variant of each title; an extension of what the international N64 app currently has. One app, all systems, all regions, all games. That's how I envision the ideal Nintendo Classics service.

"That's so many systems and so many games though, and the later systems have much larger file sizes for games! How would you balance all of this?" The honest answer is that a service this good just wouldn't work in reality... but i've got a few very unreasonable ideas, so let me explain using this updated Details screen as references.

sZL4cCE.png


1) For that more powerful hardware, each game would need to be an individual download. Just the way it is. I imagine these would be treated as downloadable content for the base app, in a similar regard to how the Capcom Arcade Stadium works.

2) That's far too much value for one or two subscription tiers, so you'd probably need to spread it out to three:
  1. Base Tier - NES / SNES / GB / VB
  2. Expansion Pack - N64 / GBA / DS + Mega Drive and PC Engine
  3. Ultimate Pack - GC / Wii / 3DS + Nintendo Archive
3) While I think the subscription model is fine in theory (especially without the slow dripfeed), there's no harm in letting people purchase the individual games they want to play, to keep even after their membership expires. Purchases from Wii U and 3DS should absolutely carry over in this scenario, for all of the platforms available on those systems. Having this purchase option available should hopefully help bring in the larger third-parties like Capcom, Konami, Bandai Namco and Square Enix who haven't been entirely on-board with the service as it stands now. This is the model they're taking with DLC and the Expansion Pack now, so why not extend it to their retro game offerings?

That's where the Game Spotlight comes into play too. In regular intervals one game would be made available to play for free to anyone without a Nintendo Switch Online membership, for a limited time (a week? a few days?). You get a taste of these games, and could choose to purchase them individually or subscribe to one of the NSO tiers to access it and many others like it. Again, this is just extending the Game Trials service already part of NSO to their retro game offerings. For subscribers, these spotlights are more an excuse to get more people to check out and play these titles; talk about them on social media; etc. Free promotion for the service.


None of this will ever happen, obviously. We'll get a few more sprite-based systems on NSO and that'll be good enough for Nintendo. Titles from GameCube and beyond will see rerelease via remasters rather than a unified service. A lot of titles from the DS and 3DS will be lost, with no way to acquire them legally. I really wish they'd take their library of games seriously, though. This is certainly 'extra' to say the least, but the thread is about what i'd do!

...oh, right, Wii U games. Well, most of the major third-party releases are on Switch already anyway, so I kinda think the job is mostly done there already.
 
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MondoMega said:
Perfect thread for me to post some ideas i've been thinking about for a good while. Definitely a lot more fantastical than what I had in mind, because I can't see Nintendo ever doing any of this, but this makes it more fun!
Click to expand...

I love this, especially the single app and Nintendo Archives. Especially if it could lead to Satellaview stuff and the likes.

However...

MondoMega said:
Super Famicom
  • Canoe emulator reused from NSO.
  • Now supports Mouse and Super Scope emulation via gyro aiming and touch support for handheld mode.
Click to expand...
It should also support USB mice like Game Builder Garage!
 
Include the 3DS and Wii U hardware in the new system itself to ensure perfect backwards compatibility without emulation. I think by extension this also would add GBA, DS, GC, and Wii to this new system.

Since we're already in pie in the sky territory now, just make all the games free to download and keep.
 
Emulation? Everything up to the Nintendo DS should be fairly easy to emulate.
 
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I’d get rid of the DRM and publish hardware specs & firmware. The entire crisis is artificially created by DRM. Dump everything DRM-free to a GOG-style website, and publish the HW specs so other manufacturers can make clone hardware. Release an open firmware that allows games to be installed/run off SD cards or DVDs.

I’ll use my unlimited software budget to pay for all the lawsuits
 
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It breaks your rules, but they should make a legacy handheld device that’s essentially a 3DS in form factor / features and can play everything from Game Boy to 3DS with physical slots that can handle all old physical carts. Some first party games are preloaded to make a purchase seem worthwhile and any old software can be added to a new online store, Nintendo will set it up on their end. Purchases transfer including Wii U GBA virtual console and 3DS ambassador games.

I’d suggest an official flip grip accessory, which they should pay the creator and make anyway, but you’d miss out on both the 3D effect, streetpass, and any cameras. There are no easy accessories for those.

Wii and Wii U might be conceptually easier. Add a sensor bar accessory for Wii games and make Wii Remotes play nice (which is probably hard, but hey unlimited money as per your rules). Wii U you need a tablet accessory that works the same way, no way around it. Maybe you include whatever chips you need in the next Switch hardware so it’s possible. I don’t think you could replicate that experience without some hardware being internal. You could hypothetically replicate the experience of any Gamepad heavy game online where you get separate screens for people or use a mobile phone screen as a back up screen, but I think most would argue it’s not the same experience.
 
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Make emulators as part of the hardware development process (where native compatibility isn't an option like GC->Wii->Wii U was) and just load all the games either onto the shop for $5-10 each, or under a sub that has access to all of them ($60/year for that would be a-ok by me). For Wii U stuff, make a companion phone app that can serve as the tablet screen for asymmetrical multiplayer.
 
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I thought of a weird idea for Wii U, when they release Switch 2, your original Switch becomes your Wii U Game Pad even if you have to plug it in with a wired connection. It’s also your new bottom screen for your DS / 3DS ports. Value!
 
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If nintendo tasked me with this i would literally open a store that sells roms. There would also be places that you could buy emulators for both consoles and pc, but if you wanted you could just buy the rom and put it on an everdrive or something.

AND THIS is why they would never task me with this =P
 
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Bring back VC for Switch. From NES through Wii. Dane can add 3DS and maybe even Wii U.

Also bringing forward past purchases under linked NNID (VC, WiiWare, DSiWare, etc).
 
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The DS/3DS/WiiU app or feature inside the Nintendo App.

How it would work is you would have you Nintendo account links to this app and if you are subscribed to NSO/+EP, any DS/3DS/WiiU they add to the subscription service would be paired with this app. The app would serve as one screen, the tv/switch as another. There would be a button to "swap screens" for games that were primarily played on the bottom screen/if you're playing in tv and need to do a touch screen action. I would also release a special joycon case for phones/tablets that syncs with the Switch if people wanted a more tactile set up.

For Wii I would release a usb ir sensor and a new wii mote+nunchuck that worked with Switch.

Obviously this doesn't preserve everything, but all the major Nintendo games on these 4 platforms that haven't gotten Switch ports would not be accessible to a new audience going forward.
 
For 3DS games, Nintendo could put them on NSO Expansion Pack and sell controllers with extra screens, like some people suggested. For the Wii U, just port its games. If it doesn't have to be a comercially viable solution, then keep the stores open.
 
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Glom said:
I wonder if it would have been that difficult to sell the WiiU and 3DS games via the website. The devices are connected to accounts as the Memories thing shows. The download service is remaining so they're keeping a record of what you own. The payment infrastructure for the website is already in place. The shutdown is saving on having to maintain expensive financial transaction infrastructure through apps on the devices, but this way you don't need to.
Click to expand...

This doesn’t solve the hardware issue. The 3DS has become prohibitively expensive and Wii Us are relatively rare. Keeping the eShops open is only a temporary solution in any case if you can’t provide wide access.
 
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Set a deadline for Nintendo to find a solution and get these games back on sale. If not, and the agreed upon time frame passes, they're all automatically donated to something like the Video Game History Foundation, source code and all. They are then granted the legal right to redistribute copies of the software as they see fit.
 
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