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Fun Club Will FFXVI even be a "RPG"??

Will FFXVI be an RPG?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 30.6%

  • No

    Votes: 52 33.1%

  • Genres have no meaning anymore (No #2)

    Votes: 57 36.3%
  • Total voters
    157
chocolate_supra said:
Yes but us olds can still be sad that the thing we loved all these years is no longer the type of thing we loved.

Like how the Ford Maverick went from being a slick, lightweight sport coupe to being a fuckin pickup truck. Yes, pickups sell better in the modern market but damned if I don't wish a new Maverick could've just been an evolution of the old one 😭
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Yeah, that’s fair, I just think stuff like Octopath and Bravely Default are effectively an evolution of old FF anyway, the latter literally descended from FF: 4 Heroes of Light. At which point it just becomes about being bothered about where the ‘mainline’ name and budget is, I guess. I mean, I’m old too. I was a bit confused when I saw what Konami did with the last Contra game too :D
 
Square should do alternating FF releases. Even numbered FF's should be these realistic mainstream action games like FF16 and the odd numbered ones should be handled by Team Asano. Traditional turn based FF with Bravely Default looks. Complete with puzzles and mini games.
 
9-Volt said:
Square should do alternating FF releases. Even numbered FF's should be these realistic mainstream action games like FF16 and the odd numbered ones should be handled by Team Asano. Traditional turn based FF with Bravely Default looks. Complete with puzzles and mini games.
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I expect this is basically what FFIX Remake ends up being. The "classic" one for the olds.
 
0
9-Volt said:
Square should do alternating FF releases. Even numbered FF's should be these realistic mainstream action games like FF16 and the odd numbered ones should be handled by Team Asano. Traditional turn based FF with Bravely Default looks. Complete with puzzles and mini games.
Click to expand...
I'd be okay with this, or even a compromise: like the odd numbered ones don't have to be HD-2D style but could be stylized like Xenoblade or Tales, and be turn-based.

Playing through Chrono Cross really solidified how much I miss turn-based 3D games, where every attack and spell was its own event, allowing for some awesome little cinematic bits. As opposed to FFXV where the big spells were kinda lost and I never really noticed the difference between Fire and Firaga because everything is just all visually chaotic. Sometimes I didn't even notice spells being cast until they were pretty much done because my character and focus were elsewhere.

But a Final Fantasy that plays like FFX and looks like XB3? Very yes please (and Asano just continues getting to do their thing because it's very good).
 
Scrawnton said:
I'll shoot my shot now. FF16 is not going to be anywhere close to an RPG like any of the games you mentioned. This quote to me says it all when Yoshi-P was asked about mini games and such in the Gematsu interview:

"We have some very dark themes that the story revolves around. We have countries at war—we can’t really have some blitzball matches going on when people are killing each other. And then when you have this hero who’s talking about and driven by revenge be like, ‘I’m gonna go out and fish!’ In that sense, there aren’t those types of light things that are going to detract from the story that we’re trying to tell."
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“The story is too dark and serious to have any fun”

The story:
maxresdefault.jpg
 
Scrawnton said:
"We have some very dark themes that the story revolves around. We have countries at war—we can’t really have some blitzball matches going on when people are killing each other. And then when you have this hero who’s talking about and driven by revenge be like, ‘I’m gonna go out and fish!’ In that sense, there aren’t those types of light things that are going to detract from the story that we’re trying to tell."
Click to expand...
guess hes never heard of the football war. i do love this attitude tho that to make your game super dark and epic it has to be a revenge story. never anything about the crushing reality of collapse and decay, nope its gotta be about how that guy killed your dad/brother/sister/wife and how you have to go on an epic revenge quest which ends with an limp message about how actually revenge is bad. i also need some of these games to step away from the "war is always misery and seriousness". war is vicious, dull and conducted by extremely fucking stupid people.
 
You know... I'm trying to figure out the nature of jRPG and its place in the world. I've been going through both DQ11 and Persona 5, and both of those have automation in there that essentially make your team fight automatically and effectively. Not micro strategies that you have to earn and program and configure yourself like FF XII's license board, but broad sentiment strategies.

I can only imagine that this is perhaps a QOL feature to help lessen splash battle fatigue... but I can't help that you're effectively removing the core essence of the genre's gameplay by doing this. Perhaps traditional turn based battling has had its day and it is jRPG that needs to move on, not FF that needs to adhere to its rigid guidelines.

I've got some more games to play though on Switch - two of the Xenoblade game games. I'll see how I feel after I get stuck in to them.
 
0
I just kinda see it as an action RPG at this point. Firmly in the cinematic realm of action, and that's alright. RPG is a very loaded term that we seem to associate more with turn based structure just because that was the limiter of the time, but if you look at something as early as IV, ATB is clearly a move into the more action realm just with menus.

As for the dark themes and lack of minigames. RPGs never really needed minigames, they are just there to break up the tension.

fourfourfun said:
I compare this to my experience to playing DQXI right now, which am so far of the opinion that it is one of the best produced, most charming, and incredibly average jRPGs I have ever played. I can feel every thread of classic jRPG running through that game, even the design of towns oozes top down 2D in its structure. But, I'm not sure if that is a good thing. Sure it must be comforting as a lover of jRPGs but I'm currently searching for the various orbs in the game wondering at which point the game is going to take off.

Is it ok to abandon classic structures and tropes? I'd probably say yes. You can do that and still not lose the essence.
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What RPG aside from DQ is even doing this classic structure? That's kinda what makes DQ so unique these days. It's practically unique how old fashioned it is.

I'd say DQ is the closest thing we have to a modern "90s" JRPG
 
0
Who knows. I know I don’t care, though. One, because final fantasy has never been that interesting as “rpgs”. And two, because when you think about it, there’s never really been a dmc style game with this much budget and story and world exploration. So that’s a pretty cool thing to see on its own.
 
0
Funny how each person seems to have their own line drawn on this subject.

For me, it's the nerdiness of the combat.
Automata isn't a JRPG to me. It's just not nerdy enough.
Watched a bit of Final Fantasy 16 gameplay and... it might be nerdy? idk
What I do know for sure is that it seems to be a doing a lot of lamentable "AAA" things
 
Looks like it'll be a good time.

I'm not even sure what even constitutes an RPG today. One would think that it requires the player to assume a role and be involved in decision making within the world, but plenty of games without any semblance of narrative related choice are called RPGs. These days I feel like any game that has a skill tree or selectable skills, damage numbers, character stats, gear choice, menu driven combat or a mix of the lot ends up with a [?]RPG label.

So sure. This game will probably be an RPG.
 
0
FFXVI to me is still considered an RPG, even if it takes the more heavy action solo based gameplay route.
RPG's to be were always set as genre's of JRPG/TBRPG, WRPG/ARPG, SRPG/TRPG. Anything that has gear equipment (not just the weapons/enchants), spells with damage numbers, items with stat buffs, and such to me are considered RPG's of some sort.
 
0
RPG is already a vague af label. Ace Attorney is an RPG--the Nintendo eshop said so (/s). Point is, trying to delineate what is and isn't an RPG is an impossible task.

But I will say that one reason I like RPGs is that I feel improvement is more about strategizing, gaining better stats, exploiting skill interactions, etc. more than real-time execution or reflexes. And I feel FF, especially latter day FF, is drifting more towards the latter, and FFXVI feels like an acceleration in that regard. Does that mean it isn't an RPG? Eh, who knows.
 
0
Scrawnton said:
I'll shoot my shot now. FF16 is not going to be anywhere close to an RPG like any of the games you mentioned. This quote to me says it all when Yoshi-P was asked about mini games and such in the Gematsu interview:

"We have some very dark themes that the story revolves around. We have countries at war—we can’t really have some blitzball matches going on when people are killing each other. And then when you have this hero who’s talking about and driven by revenge be like, ‘I’m gonna go out and fish!’ In that sense, there aren’t those types of light things that are going to detract from the story that we’re trying to tell."
Click to expand...
I dislike this notion that's so prevalent in the gaming community where a story with dark themes has to be solemn all the time otherwise it's not mature enough. Moments of levity don't detract from a serious story and can be helpful in preventing the audience from being too drained from whatever events are happening in the main story. Take for example XC3 which has a really dark premise, but isn't afraid to have scenes where the characters encounter ridiculous events that are played for laughs. These scenes don't distract from the themes of the game and can further endear the characters to the players by showing facets of them we wouldn't normally see in the main story.
 
Scrawnton said:
Final previews are out and I'm officially calling it.

Final Fantasy XVI IS NOT an RPG
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The previews indicate that combat is heavily reliant on stats/gear/level and that there's a lot of wandering around towns, talking to NPCs, and getting sub-quests, for what that's worth.

FF16 doesn't seem so dissimilar to Dragon's Dogma, The Witcher 3, or SE's own Nier Automata.
 
Phendrift said:
It has level ups and stats, how’s it not?
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I am not sure if you are American or have knowledge of famous Supreme Court hearings, but I'll throw this quote out there "I know it when I see it."

Despite having trappings that some RPGs do, it just comes off as something entirely different. It does having certain criteria you can present in a list that could question my decision. All in all, FFXVI might meet the mechanic criteria to technically be an RPG; however I know it when I see it, and what I see is not an RPG.

Good enough for the Supreme Court, good enough for me.

I know it when I see it - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
Scrawnton said:
I am not sure if you are American or have knowledge of famous Supreme Court hearings, but I'll throw this quote out there "I know it when I see it."

Despite having trappings that some RPGs do, it just comes off as something entirely different. It does having certain criteria you can present in a list that could question my decision. All in all, FFXVI might meet the mechanic criteria to technically be an RPG; however I know it when I see it, and what I see is not an RPG.

Good enough for the Supreme Court, good enough for me.

I know it when I see it - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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Level ups and stats is that for me. Ever since I was a kid who only played Mario and then got into paper Mario, looked up why it was so different and learned about how the “RPG” classification.

I vividly remember reading the Mario wiki and seeing bosses that had “200 HP” and thinking “what?! 200?! I only have to hit this boss in sunshine 3 times!” lmao. And then learning about stats and level ups shaped my first definition of the genre.
 
Phendrift said:
Level ups and stats is that for me. Ever since I was a kid who only played Mario and then got into paper Mario, looked up why it was so different and learned about how the “RPG” classification.

I vividly remember reading the Mario wiki and seeing bosses that had “200 HP” and thinking “what?! 200?! I only have to hit this boss in sunshine 3 times!” lmao. And then learning about stats and level ups shaped my first definition of the genre.
Click to expand...

I would say that FF16 is roughly the same level of RPG as the new God of War games.
 
0
Scrawnton said:
I am not sure if you are American or have knowledge of famous Supreme Court hearings, but I'll throw this quote out there "I know it when I see it."

Despite having trappings that some RPGs do, it just comes off as something entirely different. It does having certain criteria you can present in a list that could question my decision. All in all, FFXVI might meet the mechanic criteria to technically be an RPG; however I know it when I see it, and what I see is not an RPG.

Good enough for the Supreme Court, good enough for me.

I know it when I see it - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Not really related to the conversation at hand, but that statement (a) has no place in a legal ruling (you're supposed to have arguments and evidence, not statements amounting to "trust me bro") and (b) was and has been used to reinforce puritanical ideas of obscenity in violation of the First Amendment, so it's not really something I'd recommend referencing in a debate. Also, "Good enough for the Supreme Court, good enough for me" makes me a little uneasy given the current Supreme Court landscape
 
Scrawnton said:
Final previews are out and I'm officially calling it.

Final Fantasy XVI IS NOT an RPG
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It’s as much an RPG as the following:
  • Dragon’s Dogma
  • Demon’s Souls
  • Dark Souls 1-3
  • Bloodborne
  • The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
  • Elden Ring
  • Nier Automata
  • Mass Effect 2-3
  • Ys
Like come on, I can understand the disappointment that the game is moving away from turn based roots but it’s pretty narrow minded to call it not an RPG
 
Phantom Thief said:
It’s as much an RPG as the following:
  • Dragon’s Dogma
  • Demon’s Souls
  • Dark Souls 1-3
  • Bloodborne
  • The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
  • Elden Ring
  • Nier Automata
  • Mass Effect 2-3
  • Ys
Like come on, I can understand the disappointment that the game is moving away from turn based roots but it’s pretty narrow minded to call it not an RPG
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...I sincerely thought all those games you listed were action games and not RPGs. Are they really? 😳
 
Genres are useful as long as they're useful. But luckily, this isn't actually a debate about genre. It's just the same old "Final Fantasy used to be like THIS but now it's like THIS" fan complaining, just cleverly reframed. There's no such thing as an RPG and Final Fantasy is for everybody. End of story.
 
I'll grant you that this game is clearly in a very different neighborhood of the genre in which Final Fantasy has long operated, but I would think the more important matter would be "Is Final Fantasy XVI still Final Fantasy?". Some of the early previews indicate as much.

It's ultimately subjective, of course, but unless your definition of "Final Fantasy" requires that it be a very specific type of game you could be in for a good time.
 
0
Best bet for anyone wanting a turn-based JRPG from Square this year is to play Octopath Traveller 2. FF has been on the path it’s on for a very long time, in the same way that a lot of big series are heading towards each other. The line between ‘streamlined rpg with action combat and high production values’ and ‘streamlined action game with rpg elements and high production values’ is paper thin, as studios of everything from God of War to Assassins Creed to Zelda to Final Fantasy are all moving towards an end goal that appeals to the most people willing to pay £60 for a title with 5+ years of dev time, but just all approaching that end point from multiple different directions.

Still, there’s more variety than ever out there, Square literally spammed rpgs over the last 9 months or so. At this point I feel like expecting Final Fantasy to be closer to what it was 20 years ago is understandable in terms of yearning and nostalgia, but I’d still point to the many games still being made in that style specifically for the FF fanbase, and that don’t get stacks of media coverage. Even setting aside Octopath, there’s stuff like Chained Echoes. Or Rise of The Third Power. Or Eiyuden Chronicle, or Sea of Stars.
 
PixelKnight said:
Still, there’s more variety than ever out there, Square literally spammed rpgs over the last 9 months or so. At this point I feel like expecting Final Fantasy to be closer to what it was 20 years ago is understandable in terms of yearning and nostalgia, but I’d still point to the many games still being made in that style specifically for the FF fanbase, and that don’t get stacks of media coverage. Even setting aside Octopath, there’s stuff like Chained Echoes. Or Rise of The Third Power. Or Eiyuden Chronicle, or Sea of Stars.
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Everything in this paragraph is the reason I'm not even mad about FFXVI. I remember the Sakaguchi era fondly, it's gone, and there's now a ton of stuff out there now that takes inspiration from it even if it doesn't share the name. There are too many great classic-style RPGs out there for me to enjoy without getting hung up on whether or not I like Final Fantasy anymore.
 
more time has passed between FFX and now than between the first game and FFX

which means final fantasy has not been turn based for longer than it was turn based.

gonna go out on a limb here and say that its not integral to the identity at all lol
 
For the record, I'm not claiming FFXVI isn't an RPG because of its action based gameplay. I'm claiming it's not an RPG because it's obvious it's designed and developed as a character action game first and foremost with what appears to be minor exploration and side content with a streamlined focus on character action and extremely linear story based pacing.

To me, this is a character action game with some rpg mechanics bolted onto it and not an RPG with character action bolted onto it (like in Ys, which I vibe with a lot).
 
Scrawnton said:
For the record, I'm not claiming FFXVI isn't an RPG because of its action based gameplay. I'm claiming it's not an RPG because it's obvious it's designed and developed as a character action game first and foremost with what appears to be minor exploration and side content with a streamlined focus on character action and extremely linear story based pacing.

To me, this is a character action game with some rpg mechanics bolted onto it and not an RPG with character action bolted onto it (like in Ys, which I vibe with a lot).
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So what does that make the NieR games?
 
chocolate_supra said:
...I sincerely thought all those games you listed were action games and not RPGs. Are they really? 😳
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Depends on your definition, I wouldn't call most of those RPGs either. Witcher 3 definitely is, and Ys is for sure an action RPG. But I wouldn't call any Souls game, Nier, or Dragon's Dogma an RPG (or at least, not an RPG primarily, which is where this gets murky)
 
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