Discussion Will Breath of the Wild ever be rehabilitated? (ie recover from "obsolete tech demo" status)

[Linkstrikesback]

GTA IV. MGSV. Animal Crossing New Horizons.

If anything I feel like the fact that Breath of the Wild shows up more in those goofy IGN / Gameinformer polls etc etc for best game of all time shows that Breath of the Wild's future is pretty secure. Not to mention it took like, what, three months for a large portion of the internet to start acting like they hate Tears?

Suggesting New Horizons belongs in this thread might be among the only takes that could be even more wrong than suggesting BOTW belonged in the thread to begin with.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

Suggesting New Horizons belongs in this thread might be among the only takes that could be even more wrong than suggesting BOTW belonged in the thread to begin with.

 

[TrashMarket]

they're pretty different games with very different priorities. botw is more accessible/elegant imo. that + the novelty of its release make me think it'll be remembered for fondly than its sequel

 

[Cara]

Totk was a really fun game but BOTW was a borderline religious experience and a revelation.

 

[VintoWin]

Seems like the other reason is "Second time is not a charm"

But from a mechanical and gameplay perspective, it's hard to argue that BoTW is superior. ToTK is extremely iterative.

Personal viewpoint.

Anyways, good thing we are moving to a new Hyrule. People might still hate it even more on the 3rd iteration of open world just from fatigue.
I have a feeling an entirely new world would mitigate that though.

 

[tender]

One weird thing is discounting the idea of "moment in time" out of hand. Why?

 

[lattjeful]

I don't think it needs to. Video games, like any artistic medium, evolve. It's still a great game - my personal GOAT if it weren't for Tears of the Kingdom - and its impact is undeniable. But games like Red Dead Redemption 2 and Tears of the Kingdom have taken open worlds further than Breath of the Wild has, and they should. They're newer. That being said...

Video games are the only medium I've seen where people debate over whether or not something needs to be "rehabilitated" or is obsolete. Just play the damn game if you want to play it. People have no problem going back and revisiting old music, books, movies, etc. Sure it may not have the flare it had on release, but you can still appreciate the classics.

 

[Thunder84]

Suggesting New Horizons belongs in this thread might be among the only takes that could be even more wrong than suggesting BOTW belonged in the thread to begin with.

Eh, I can at least kinda see that? I don’t think it really fits given it’s mainstream appeal, but its reputation online has definitely fallen a fair bit, and it’s pretty much never brought up as a GOTY/all-timer like BotW still is.

MGSV is the one I don’t get. That game’s reputation hasn’t budged an inch.

 

[Weiss]

Breath of the Wild is like Nintendo looked at Sonic Frontiers and went "what if we made a game like that, but bad?"

 

[Hocot8]

This is a bit of a silly overreaction imo. BOTW doesn't need to be rehabilitated at all. Both game coexist very well and we've seen that whenever there are conversations about best games of the switch or even all time.

If anything TOTK was the best thing to happen to BOTW.

It's okay if people think ToTK is better than BoTW or whatever but personally BoTW/ToTK in 20 years will be looked back on like Ocarina/Majora is. Some people will think the 2nd was better, but the 1st was, as someone said previously about BoTW(same is true for Ocarina), a revelation. That will always stand the test of time.

I say all this as someone who thinks ToTK is better and the more I think about it is close to becoming my personal GOAT.

 

[VintoWin]

This is a bit of a silly overreaction imo. BOTW doesn't need to be rehabilitated at all. Both game coexist very well and we've seen that whenever there are conversations about best games of the switch or even all time.

If anything TOTK was the best thing to happen to BOTW.

It's okay if people think ToTK is better than BoTW or whatever but personally BoTW/ToTK in 20 years will be looked back on like Ocarina/Majora is. Some people will think the 2nd was better, but the 1st was, as someone said previously about BoTW(same is true for Ocarina), a revelation. That will always stand the test of time.

I say all this as someone who thinks ToTK is better and the more I think about it is close to becoming my personal GOAT.

I'm sure BoTW will stay relevant forever, but I disagree about one part.

I think everything BoTW did, is also present in ToTK. Which makes ToTK an option for people if they had to choose one to play.

It's not like Ocarina and Majora where you can finish both games in like 3-4 days and they are completely diff worlds and mechanics.

ToTK is only new mechanics and the open world format and the mechanics that BoTW revolutionized...are still there.

I'd love for someone to explain to me what makes BoTW revolutionary/a revelation compared to ToTK. I feel like it's impossible, everything you will note is also present in ToTK.

The Same World part is really the key thing. -- I'm assuming you are trying to say that since BoTW was the first to introduce the new formula, that in itself makes it notable. Much like Ocarina of Time.. but they also never reused worlds with Ocarina's formula. Plus I noted earlier that open world games are extreme time sinks so if I look back in 10 years and I'm like "which to play...?" I probably would be more likely to pick the game that has more content in it/iterated on the original.

Just my two cents.

 

[PixelKnight]

This thread made me smile. In a warm, genuine way.

As it made me realise it’s been such a long time since I played BOTW. And in a couple years time I’ll go back to it, likely barely remember anything about it and have such a good time.

Just on the ‘same world’ point… for me I think what helped a lot was how I traversed that same world. As in TOTK I spent a lot more time gliding from extreme height or on crazy vehicles, and barely used a horse at all. But in BOTW I explored a lot more on horseback when I wasn’t gliding directly to shrines from towers.

 

[Serif]

Is Breath of the Wild doomed to be that game people talk about but never play?

I understand the sentiment behind this question.

I suppose we'll see, if Nintendo ever ships a graphics patch or a deluxe edition on Switch 2, whether or not people will happily return to BotW.

My gut says yes. I think TotK did a wonderful job of fleshing out the overworld with caves that harkened back to classic Zelda titles. But that, skydiving, and the ability wheel are the only things I would 'miss' when returning to BotW.

Because indeed, it does have its own identity. Experiences like storming Hyrule Castle early, Eventide Island, freeing corrupted Naydra, taming the Divine Beasts, building up Tarrey Town, the theming of nature vs. technology, the specific Magnesis / Cryonis / Stasis runes, the Shiekah aesthetic, and the overall feeling that you're in a world that's moved on from an apocalypse but is struggling to get back on its feet and dealing with your 'failure' from 100 years ago.

It's more than the sum of its parts. Despite the overlap in world design and mechanics with TotK, there is a different 'feel' to the game.

 

[Wockio]

I knew the OP was familiar to me. Another banger thread, bestie.

How deep is the rot?

EDIT: The post below is kinda dumb. I made it because I had perceived a negative shift in mood here at Famiboards as well as elsewhere and I wondered about what such a negative shift means to sustainability of the Nintendo brand. I realise now that my perception was wrong, which renders the...

famiboards.com

This is uncalled for

 

[JazzPotatoes]

I'd love for someone to explain to me what makes BoTW revolutionary/a revelation compared to ToTK. I feel like it's impossible, everything you will note is also present in ToTK.

I'll bite.

BotW is much more cohesive in it's design, and the way the core mechanics tie into the main gameplay loop of going out and exploring.

Having Hyrule as the main area for exploration makes for a much more rewarding experience than Hyrule plus disappointing sky islands plus disappointing Depths. Exploring Hyrule in BotW is all killer, whereas two out of the three overworld layers in TotK are underbaked and fail to live up to their potential.

The Skeikah powers in BotW fit the main gameplay loop better, and while it is possible to exploit them, it's much more difficult. Ultrahand on the other hand makes it incredibly easy to just break the exploration loop in TotK. You can make rocket powered balloons within a few hours, watch trivialises any mountains or valleys. Not only that, the Sky Islands mean it's easier and quicker to get to new parts of the map by gliding off them rather than actually traversing or navigating the environment.

This is at its worst in the Depths: you're supposed to be scrabbling around in the dark from root to root, but building a hover bike means you can just fly straight from one to the next.

Lastly, BotW has the more compelling main questions:- Ganon is waiting for you in the castle, you've got to go power up the four animal mechas before going to face him. It's simple, but a perfect set up for the game.

TotK on the other hand has Ganon getting revived by some unknown force, there's some sort of evil Zelda going round causing mischief, people don't have weapons for some reason, and you have to go investigate these random phenomena. It's a much more complicated set up that isn't as concise in summarizing the games themes and ideas.

TotK has the better dungeons and bosses, and the physics are genuinely amazing, but aside from that I'd easily put BotW as the better game

 

[VintoWin]

I'll bite.

BotW is much more cohesive in it's design, and the way the core mechanics tie into the main gameplay loop of going out and exploring.

Having Hyrule as the main area for exploration makes for a much more rewarding experience than Hyrule plus disappointing sky islands plus disappointing Depths. Exploring Hyrule in BotW is all killer, whereas two out of the three overworld layers in TotK are underbaked and fail to live up to their potential.

The Skeikah powers in BotW fit the main gameplay loop better, and while it is possible to exploit them, it's much more difficult. Ultrahand on the other hand makes it incredibly easy to just break the exploration loop in TotK. You can make rocket powered balloons within a few hours, watch trivialises any mountains or valleys. Not only that, the Sky Islands mean it's easier and quicker to get to new parts of the map by gliding off them rather than actually traversing or navigating the environment.

This is at its worst in the Depths: you're supposed to be scrabbling around in the dark from root to root, but building a hover bike means you can just fly straight from one to the next.

Lastly, BotW has the more compelling main questions:- Ganon is waiting for you in the castle, you've got to go power up the four animal mechas before going to face him. It's simple, but a perfect set up for the game.

TotK on the other hand has Ganon getting revived by some unknown force, there's some sort of evil Zelda going round causing mischief, people don't have weapons for some reason, and you have to go investigate these random phenomena. It's a much more complicated set up that isn't as concise in summarizing the games themes and ideas.

TotK has the better dungeons and bosses, and the physics are genuinely amazing, but aside from that I'd easily put BotW as the better game

I think the strongest point you made is the fact that you can skip terrain with the mechanics of ToTK.
One counterpoint: However, the Sky Islands and such were set up in a way to make you use these mechanics to figure them out so I disagree that Sky Islands were bad.

You could technically scale the world without cheesing too much but that counts as self-imposed difficulty.

One counterpoint though: You do have batteries.. it's not just infinite travel wherever. You do have to stop and rebuild and rethink how you will approach things.

I do agree with the Depths. I didn't like it at all. I personally see this as "I did not like this addition, but it does not hamper my experience with the game at large"

I do agree that the Hyrule Castle setup with Calamity Ganon is intimidating and a huge motivation in BoTW. There's nothing quite like that in ToTK. It's not super far removed from that though.

 

[Thunder84]

I'd love for someone to explain to me what makes BoTW revolutionary/a revelation compared to ToTK. I feel like it's impossible, everything you will note is also present in ToTK.

I don't think something simply being present in a game necessarily makes it better. Yeah, if you really wanted to, you could play Tears of the Kingdom exactly the same as you play Breath of the Wild: exploration primarily on foot, using the landscape and your own personal interests to guide your travel, and engaging with the overworld at every step. But you'd be deliberately ignoring multiple options to simplify and expedite your exploration, options that fly in the face of what Breath of the Wild set out to do. If you place a more convenient option in front of players, 99% of time they're gonna take it. Why should I spend 20 minutes walking on foot to something that looks cool if I can just fast travel to a sky island and dive down?

Enforced limitations that breed creativity are a hallmark of excellent game design in my opinion. Breath of the Wild excels at that, while Tears of the Kingdom throws that to the wind. Given how often I was fast traveling and flying over everything, Tears of the Kingdom's open world exploration felt a lot more synonymous with the standard open world game, just checking off boxes and moving to the next thing on the map. Whereas Breath of the Wild's felt like my own unique experience, one that I directed from start to finish.

The cool stuff in the distance provided a direction for your exploration, but the exploration itself was what made Breath of the Wild so special, not the reward. Tears of the Kingdom prioritizes the reward with its ease of travel, a trait shared by most other open world games. That's the key difference, in my opinion.

 

[SphereSeeker]

I played through botw 4 times now and I enjoy it everytime.
i've played through tears once and it was a slog and I will never reinstall the game.

 

[dolpic]

Seeing this thread is weird. I was under the impression that TOTK was widely viewed as a disappointment that doesn't live up to BOTW! Just goes to show that the reception of a game can seem very different depending on which circles you frequent.

Personally I prefer TOTK, but I think the games are a bit more different than people give them credit for. You're not gonna be managing your stamina meter, running around on foot, or climbing mountains by hand in TOTK lol.

 

[Concernt]

I'm sure my view is known, but to be clear.

Tears of the Kingdom murdered it. It removed its skin and clumsily stitched it onto itself, prancing about as if it was the same person, as if it could ever measure up, and it's embarrassing, as I see the blood drip from the fumbled sutures and have to avert my gaze, and it stares at me, and it demands compliments, or I'm next.

Breath of the Wild is dead. You cannot resuscitate someone when someone, or some thing, stole their blood vessels to attach to an industrial pump and laughed as they exploded.

I will not forgive what it did to its older sibling, and I will never forget, and I will carry a neverending hatred in my soul for it, and remember what it did forever.

 

[VintoWin]

Seeing this thread is weird. I was under the impression that TOTK was widely viewed as a disappointment that doesn't live up to BOTW! Just goes to show that the reception of a game can seem very different depending on which circles you frequent.

Personally I prefer TOTK, but I think the games are a bit more different than people give them credit for. You're not gonna be managing your stamina meter, running around on foot, or climbing mountains by hand in TOTK lol.

That is true, but you are managing your battery meter as you lift off the ground with your vehicle/creation to segment 2 of the mountain. Then rethink again where you will land.

You don't have infinite freedom in ToTK. And it's fairly restricted for a while.

 

[Djehuty]

During launch totk might have been the darling and many still see it as a 10/10 or 9/10 but the popular opinion is that overall it’s a less impactful game. And doenst quite live up to botw.

I’m pretty sure this is an April fools thread

 

[Darknut85]

So this is a „Botw tech demo“ vs „Totk DLC“ thread.

 

[Djehuty]

No, but you are managing your battery meter as you lift off the ground with your vehicle/creation to segment 2 of the mountain. Then rethink again where you will land.

You don't have infinite freedom in ToTK.

I am of the opinion that anyone who has glitched totk and duped iotems has a much better experience than soemone who hasn’t.

What’s funny about that is if you dupe there’s litteraly no reason to go into the depths. After you get the armour there.

It’s so wild how totk flies in the face of freedom, like you can do this if you like grinding for parts,

And you can’t even use the copy and paste function because each part is like 5 zonite anything more than 5 parts becomes ridiculously expensive to make.

The game only requires you even build like three times total.

Who designed that, the technology part is cool but it’s only useful by exploitation of it or it’s just goign to waste time, why spend 100’s of materials to make a battle bot when you can just hit an enemy with a sword twice.

That’s the difference between 20 minutes of grinding and 2 second of not janky combat.

The only thing you can ever reliably build is a car, a flying machine and a boat pretty much.

And those gliders.

 

[VintoWin]

I am of the opinion that anyone who has glitched totk and duped iotems has a much better experience than soemone who hasn’t.

What’s funny about that is if you dupe there’s litteraly no reason to go into the depths. After you get the armour there.

It’s so wild how totk flies in the face of freedom, like you can do this if you like grinding for parts,

And you can’t even use the copy and paste function because each part is like 5 zonite anything more than 5 parts becomes ridiculously expensive to make.

The game only requires you even build like three times total.

Who designed that, the technology part is cool but it’s only useful by exploitation of it or it’s just goign to waste time, why spend 100’s of materials to make a battle bot when you can just hit an enemy with a sword twice.

That’s the difference between 20 minutes of grinding and 2 second of not janky combat.

The only thing you can ever reliably build is a car, a flying machine and a boat pretty much.

And those gliders.

Well, wake me up when Nintendo makes an actual hard game (combat-wise).

ToTK is more about expanding on your choices on how to approach things. Which was what BoTW was exactly about as well.....

It makes sense that there are limitations to the stuff. The robots can clear out entire camps lol. Yes some of us prefer to just.... fuse stuff and fight 1 on 1.
That was me!

People have fun with the sandbox though. I used robotics mainly for exploration not combat.

 

[FiniteInfinities]

Well, wake me up when Nintendo makes an actual hard game (combat-wise).

ToTK is more about expanding on your choices on how to approach things. Which was what BoTW was exactly about as well.....

It makes sense that there are limitations to the stuff. The robots can clear out entire camps lol. Yes some of us prefer to just.... fuse stuff and fight 1 on 1.
That was me!

People have fun with the sandbox though. I used robotics mainly for exploration not combat.

This is funny because I specifically remember reviews that mentioned that ToTK was too hard combat-wise. I think someone complained that a moblin could one shot them.

 

[Stopdoor]

That is true, but you are managing your battery meter as you lift off the ground with your vehicle/creation to segment 2 of the mountain. Then rethink again where you will land.

You don't have infinite freedom in ToTK. And it's fairly restricted for a while.

It's not just vehicles, Ascend also renders climbing pretty useless.

 

[VintoWin]

This is funny because I specifically remember reviews that mentioned that ToTK was too hard combat-wise. I think someone complained that a moblin could one shot them.

Yeah idk, there are some enemies with more moderate difficulty like gleeok/lynel. For the most part it's not that challenging. Especially if you use the tools available to you... and the upgrades and stuff. Stuff will not be one shotting you if you have armor.

@Stopdoor
Yeah that's true. At least you can't use it anywhere. If there is no overhang, you can't use it. They definitely made this ability to let you get out of caves for free, It'd be so annoying to have to walk back to the beginning and maybe annoying for them to design a one-way exit for every cave as well.

 

[BlackthornOrion]

ngl, I kinda suspect that people all in on the "TotK makes BotW wholly obsolete" wagon maybe just didn't really like BotW all that much in the first place

I loved BotW. I also loved TotK. To me neither is really a definitive experience over the other; there's things the newer game does better than the older one, sure, but by that same measure there's also definitely things I think worked better in the older game, and as a result they both have pretty distinct vibes/atmospheres that complement one another

To me the comparison would be something like Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, or maybe the Pokemon Gen 1/3 and Gen 2/4 versions of Kanto. I might have a preference, but one would feel incomplete without the other and I can't imagine looking at TotK and thinking "welp, I'm definitely never gonna have a reason to go back to BotW now" because that's not really how my relationship with media works

 

[Djehuty]

Well, wake me up when Nintendo makes an actual hard game.

ToTK is more about expanding on your choices on how to approach things. Which was what BoTW was exactly about as well.....

It makes sense that there are limitations to the stuff. The robots can clear out entire camps lol. Yes some of us prefer to just.... fuse stuff and fight 1 on 1.
That was me!

People have fun with the sandbox though. I used robotics mainly for exploration not combat.

Spoiler

that’s not my argument, it’s fine for people who just fight with no thought like me.

But to actually interact with the games mechanics requires you to jump through a million hoops.

Have the right 20 or so materials which means you need to use zonai battery’s to get them but also you can only use the thing for half a second so farm 200 zonai battery’s to upgrade but oh wait you need zonai tw to use it again without having to build it fro mscratch, so go farm 100 zonite, now you have a battle bot, it freaks out falls over and does nothing, now you need to try again.

5 hours later you built 1 thing and if you ever wanna use it again, just grind another 100 zonite.

There are like 4 different resources and currency you need to jump through to actually build anything.

You litteraly can just build cars pretty much becuase of how stupidly gated everything is.

It doenst help that the enst solution is to never build, the game only punishes you and forces you to grind for interacting with it in any meaningful way.

After trying to build something interesting I just made a 3 piece flying machine cause it’s just better.

This is why the viral clips stopped, there’s no reward for the time you spent other then to see the thing you built one time.

And that time takes hours unless you dupe to get 100’s of zonite, 200 or 300 giant battery’s

And you need to sell some to get zonite coin to buy some other things and then spend so much time tossing barriers into gacha machines.

Not to mention the building ui is awful.

It’s a mess of a system. That really could have been good, if they made residing it free, if they made your batter not totally useless unless you have 100’s of spare zonai battery’s to upgrade or use to recover.

The master cycle in botw was done much better than this, and yeah it was semi endgame, but by the time you’re endgame in totk, you still have to grind, you already did everything but if you want to build a robot you have to go to the depths go get zonite cause you don’t acquire that amount naturally at all.

It’s such a good system that they gatekeep form you so hard, your laser pointer beam , the s just the worse option just hit them with a sword and they die faster.

It’s such a bad way to balance becuase it’s the rpg potion thing, o never know when I need a potion so I’ll never use that potion.

You really only carry enough resources normally to build one or two interesting things before having to grind.

It’s not rare resources just time consuming, you wander around the depths for 20 minutes going from camp to camp hitting every rock.

That’s what totk does the most, amazing ideas with awful execution and implementation, same thing with the sages, ai companions on top of the powers are cool, but to use the powers you need to stand beside the sages, so you never use the powers becuase doing so requires like 5 seconds of running around like an idiot unless you’re lucky and they’re beside you, and the whistle thing only half works.

The presentation of everything is amazing though and the music is spotless, I don’t hate the game really I just hate how they executed it.

It has the skeleton required to beat botw, but everything else is glue barely holding that skeleton together.

And in the end the best way to play is ignore every new mechanic and just play it like botw.

Except the one or two tiems the devs need you to use them.

That’s why the underground depot is so good, it’s the one time the zonai tech is used in a way that encourages use of it, with linear solutions but by having that it’s much harder to host skip and ignore it. [SPOILER/]

 

[VintoWin]

Your argument makes complete sense to me. We're sorta getting into the conversation that this is a Zelda game with Sandbox elements.
They put limitations on the sandbox stuff as to not overshadow the core elements of Zelda.
The limitations do seem like a bit much then I guess. They also wanted it to be a bit of a grindy RPG.

Maybe they really should just implement more RPG... more stuff to mitigate limitations. Like early on, it makes sense. Later on... idk maybe there should be a skill point you can invest in a skill tree that makes it so that you extract 2x 3x the zonaite instead of just 1. or a Gathering armorset that does this...

 

[Djehuty]

Your argument makes complete sense to me. We're sorta getting into the conversation that this is a Zelda game with Sandbox elements.
They put limitations on the sandbox stuff as to not overshadow the core elements of Zelda.
The limitations do seem like a bit much then I guess. They also wanted it to be a bit of a grindy RPG.

Maybe they really should just implement more RPG... more stuff to mitigate limitations. Like early on, it makes sense. Later on... idk maybe there should be a skill point you can invest in a skill tree that makes it so that you harvest 2x 3x the zonaite instead of just 1. or a Gathering armorset that does this...

I think a lot of what totk does is clealry some stuff they want to expand in the future, like the party system that was kinda of there b also it’s force ghosts astral projecting and not an actual party.

They seem to want to keep it accessible while also having these complicated systems, so the easy answer is gage it hard so little in my can bio dm a bike , and is never going to have the resources to actually build soemthing in a larger scale.

Meanwhile they expect fans to grind for hours to build stuff but largely that didn’t happen.

I think there’s a lot of mechancis in totk that can be expanded upon in the future.

I’m just glad the next Zelda game has a new world that’s hopefully much more varied unqiue and layered. I can only be spoiled by Genshin so much before going back to Zelda and, green field. But that’s just my preference and not an actual issue. I would also like to say botw is my favoruite Zelda so th is isn’t me being “ raghhh new Zelda sucks go back to old” but one thing that old Zelda has was a lot more varied environments, it was their first foray into open world so I hope their second can turn out a lot better.


I just how the next Zelda game doesn’t throw everything into the trash.

 

[dolpic]

Spoiler

that’s not my argument, it’s fine for people who just fight with no thought like me.

But to actually interact with the games mechanics requires you to jump through a million hoops.

Have the right 20 or so materials which means you need to use zonai battery’s to get them but also you can only use the thing for half a second so farm 200 zonai battery’s to upgrade but oh wait you need zonai tw to use it again without having to build it fro mscratch, so go farm 100 zonite, now you have a battle bot, it freaks out falls over and does nothing, now you need to try again.

5 hours later you built 1 thing and if you ever wanna use it again, just grind another 100 zonite.

There are like 4 different resources and currency you need to jump through to actually build anything.

You litteraly can just build cars pretty much becuase of how stupidly gated everything is.

It doenst help that the enst solution is to never build, the game only punishes you and forces you to grind for interacting with it in any meaningful way.

After trying to build something interesting I just made a 3 piece flying machine cause it’s just better.

This is why the viral clips stopped, there’s no reward for the time you spent other then to see the thing you built one time.

And that time takes hours unless you dupe to get 100’s of zonite, 200 or 300 giant battery’s

And you need to sell some to get zonite coin to buy some other things and then spend so much time tossing barriers into gacha machines.

Not to mention the building ui is awful.

It’s a mess of a system. That really could have been good, if they made residing it free, if they made your batter not totally useless unless you have 100’s of spare zonai battery’s to upgrade or use to recover.

The master cycle in botw was done much better than this, and yeah it was semi endgame, but by the time you’re endgame in totk, you still have to grind, you already did everything but if you want to build a robot you have to go to the depths go get zonite cause you don’t acquire that amount naturally at all.

It’s such a good system that they gatekeep form you so hard, your laser pointer beam , the s just the worse option just hit them with a sword and they die faster.

It’s such a bad way to balance becuase it’s the rpg potion thing, o never know when I need a potion so I’ll never use that potion.

You really only carry enough resources normally to build one or two interesting things before having to grind.

It’s not rare resources just time consuming, you wander around the depths for 20 minutes going from camp to camp hitting every rock.

That’s what totk does the most, amazing ideas with awful execution and implementation, same thing with the sages, ai companions on top of the powers are cool, but to use the powers you need to stand beside the sages, so you never use the powers becuase doing so requires like 5 seconds of running around like an idiot unless you’re lucky and they’re beside you, and the whistle thing only half works.

The presentation of everything is amazing though and the music is spotless, I don’t hate the game really I just hate how they executed it.

It has the skeleton required to beat botw, but everything else is glue barely holding that skeleton together.

And in the end the best way to play is ignore every new mechanic and just play it like botw.

Except the one or two tiems the devs need you to use them.

That’s why the underground depot is so good, it’s the one time the zonai tech is used in a way that encourages use of it, with linear solutions but by having that it’s much harder to host skip and ignore it. [SPOILER/]

I think the problem here is trying to play it like minecraft and just build some massive contraption. Those machines are costly and the devs wanted you to use things that are more small scale with a focus on efficiency, on engineering to solve a current problem. For example a very useful machine you can build is a rocket attached to an extended spring. You get on top of the spring and hit it to activate the rocket+make the spring go back. Then you can hit the spring mid-air to get launched even higher. Only two parts, but very useful. Battle bots are the same way, instead of building a death machine you can just use the homing carts or towers and attach one or two weapons/batteries to it to aid you in combat. Plenty of useful stuff to be done that doesn't cost so much.

The way the devices are balanced also dissuades players from running into that battery consumption problem you mention. For example, just two fans can be enough to hit the horizontal speed limit for fans depending on the device weight and adding many more will probably not make you go faster. Using more wheels doesn't increase your speed and is only useful for vehicle balance, so you're incentivised to make better, more stable shapes rather than guzzle battery.

I understand being disappointed that the build mechanic was "optional" in many respects however, and the zonaite collection could have done with some streamlining.

 

[Bulborb]

BOTW doesn't need rehabilitation or whatever, the same way ocarina of time still wins the polls like the best game of all time thing we just had threads on despite the various sequels being it but better, BOTW will always be the most successful and remembered long term because its the game that redefined the way an open world could be, and as impressive as the numerous physics systems are in TOTK, BOTW did the vast majority of the work to get there to begin with.

to be honest I see Majoras Mask and TOTK the same. They were like Ocarina/BOTW but they have certain gimmicks that make them worse than the originals that they are sequals to. Majoras mask with the whole time warp thing and TOTK with the whole Banjo Kazooie nuts and bolts mechanics. They both feel like gimped versions of the original games.

For me Ocarina of time>Majoras mask and Botw>TOTK

 

[VintoWin]

I think the problem here is trying to play it like minecraft and just build some massive contraption. Those machines are costly and the devs wanted you to use things that are more small scale with a focus on efficiency, on engineering to solve a current problem. For example a very useful machine you can build is a rocket attached to an extended spring. You get on top of the spring and hit it to activate the rocket+make the spring go back. Then you can hit the spring mid-air to get launched even higher. Only two parts, but very useful. Battle bots are the same way, instead of building a death machine you can just use the homing carts or towers and attach one or two weapons/batteries to it to aid you in combat. Plenty of useful stuff to be done that doesn't cost so much.

The way the devices are balanced also dissuades players from running into that battery consumption problem you mention. For example, just two fans can be enough to hit the horizontal speed limit for fans depending on the device weight and adding many more will probably not make you go faster. Using more wheels doesn't increase your speed and is only useful for vehicle balance, so you're incentivised to make better, more stable shapes rather than guzzle battery.

I understand being disappointed that the build mechanic was "optional" in many respects however, and the zonaite collection could have done with some streamlining.

Yeah exactly, and as someone that doesn't like sandbox games at all... somehow what they did here worked for me.

It felt more like I was solving things with tools and limitations. Which is what I love about classic Zelda. It's just like a new take on it.

Hell, they gave us the mirror shield...it's just a contraption you can use instead of an equip-able item.

My issues with ToTK are enemy variety, combat difficulty and the complexity of the dungeons + length of the main quest and the storylines surrounding it.
I don't have issue with the style of puzzle solving. I think this is the strongest thing the game brought to the table.

 

[stodesign12]

I'll bite.

BotW is much more cohesive in it's design, and the way the core mechanics tie into the main gameplay loop of going out and exploring.

Having Hyrule as the main area for exploration makes for a much more rewarding experience than Hyrule plus disappointing sky islands plus disappointing Depths. Exploring Hyrule in BotW is all killer, whereas two out of the three overworld layers in TotK are underbaked and fail to live up to their potential.

The Skeikah powers in BotW fit the main gameplay loop better, and while it is possible to exploit them, it's much more difficult. Ultrahand on the other hand makes it incredibly easy to just break the exploration loop in TotK. You can make rocket powered balloons within a few hours, watch trivialises any mountains or valleys. Not only that, the Sky Islands mean it's easier and quicker to get to new parts of the map by gliding off them rather than actually traversing or navigating the environment.

This is at its worst in the Depths: you're supposed to be scrabbling around in the dark from root to root, but building a hover bike means you can just fly straight from one to the next.

Lastly, BotW has the more compelling main questions:- Ganon is waiting for you in the castle, you've got to go power up the four animal mechas before going to face him. It's simple, but a perfect set up for the game.

TotK on the other hand has Ganon getting revived by some unknown force, there's some sort of evil Zelda going round causing mischief, people don't have weapons for some reason, and you have to go investigate these random phenomena. It's a much more complicated set up that isn't as concise in summarizing the games themes and ideas.

TotK has the better dungeons and bosses, and the physics are genuinely amazing, but aside from that I'd easily put BotW as the better game

Great explanation.

I don't think something simply being present in a game necessarily makes it better. Yeah, if you really wanted to, you could play Tears of the Kingdom exactly the same as you play Breath of the Wild: exploration primarily on foot, using the landscape and your own personal interests to guide your travel, and engaging with the overworld at every step. But you'd be deliberately ignoring multiple options to simplify and expedite your exploration, options that fly in the face of what Breath of the Wild set out to do. If you place a more convenient option in front of players, 99% of time they're gonna take it. Why should I spend 20 minutes walking on foot to something that looks cool if I can just fast travel to a sky island and dive down?

Enforced limitations that breed creativity are a hallmark of excellent game design in my opinion. Breath of the Wild excels at that, while Tears of the Kingdom throws that to the wind. Given how often I was fast traveling and flying over everything, Tears of the Kingdom's open world exploration felt a lot more synonymous with the standard open world game, just checking off boxes and moving to the next thing on the map. Whereas Breath of the Wild's felt like my own unique experience, one that I directed from start to finish.

The cool stuff in the distance provided a direction for your exploration, but the exploration itself was what made Breath of the Wild so special, not the reward. Tears of the Kingdom prioritizes the reward with its ease of travel, a trait shared by most other open world games. That's the key difference, in my opinion.

Exactly, and this is why I see TotK as a good "companion" or "extra bonus" for BotW, but never a replacement, an improved 2.0 version or something actually better. It's a fun addition AFTER having played BotW, otherwise (while you'll be playing a great game) you will lose the essence of BotW, which is what made that game so influential and iconic. And honestly, as a video game fan, no one should lose that experience.

 

[fourfourfun]

BOTW has a lot going for it with its simple purity. TOTK is better for it existing.

 

[Mekanos]

Only on an Internet forum would there be a question about “rehabilitating” one of the most beloved video games of all time.

 

[Djehuty]

I think the problem here is trying to play it like minecraft and just build some massive contraption. Those machines are costly and the devs wanted you to use things that are more small scale with a focus on efficiency, on engineering to solve a current problem. For example a very useful machine you can build is a rocket attached to an extended spring. You get on top of the spring and hit it to activate the rocket+make the spring go back. Then you can hit the spring mid-air to get launched even higher. Only two parts, but very useful. Battle bots are the same way, instead of building a death machine you can just use the homing carts or towers and attach one or two weapons/batteries to it to aid you in combat. Plenty of useful stuff to be done that doesn't cost so much.

The way the devices are balanced also dissuades players from running into that battery consumption problem you mention. For example, just two fans can be enough to hit the horizontal speed limit for fans depending on the device weight and adding many more will probably not make you go faster. Using more wheels doesn't increase your speed and is only useful for vehicle balance, so you're incentivised to make better, more stable shapes rather than guzzle battery.

I understand being disappointed that the build mechanic was "optional" in many respects however, and the zonaite collection could have done with some streamlining.

Then why do they let you in the first place.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

One weird thing is discounting the idea of "moment in time" out of hand. Why?

Yeah. Ocarina of Time sure wouldn't still sometimes be winning "best game of all time" polls if it had released, say, November 2020.

I'm sure BoTW will stay relevant forever, but I disagree about one part.

I think everything BoTW did, is also present in ToTK. Which makes ToTK an option for people if they had to choose one to play.

...

I'd love for someone to explain to me what makes BoTW revolutionary/a revelation compared to ToTK. I feel like it's impossible, everything you will note is also present in ToTK.

Disagree here. Something like Majora's Mask added some new tricks by way of masks, but for the most part you were interacting with the world with the same capabilities as OOT. Bombs, hookshots, bombchus, lens of truth, a few varieties of arrow. BOTW then threw that out and gave us a new set of tools and a world built around them. Then TOTK... threw out and replaced those abilities again. Even if given totally identical locations, the way you would interact with it to solve a problem or get from A to B would be very different in BOTW and TOTK.

Reaching new locations on the map also plays out vastly differently when in one game you're mostly earthbound, while in another you're frequently given chances to go to the sky and float/fly quite a ways, skipping obstacles altogether. As a fan of exploring the map I'd kind of feel like TOTK blew that aspect, except I'd already had a chance to explore the world the proper way in another game.

Then why do they let you in the first place.

Fun.

 

[VintoWin]

Yeah. Ocarina of Time sure wouldn't still sometimes be winning "best game of all time" polls if it had released, say, November 2020.

Disagree here. Something like Majora's Mask added some new tricks by way of masks, but for the most part you were interacting with the world with the same capabilities as OOT. Bombs, hookshots, bombchus, lens of truth, a few varieties of arrow. BOTW then threw that out and gave us a new set of tools and a world built around them. Then TOTK... threw out and replaced those abilities again. Even if given totally identical locations, the way you would interact with it to solve a problem or get from A to B would be very different in BOTW and TOTK.

Reaching new locations on the map also plays out vastly differently when in one game you're mostly earthbound, while in another you're frequently given chances to go to the sky and float/fly quite a ways, skipping obstacles altogether. As a fan of exploring the map I'd kind of feel like TOTK blew that aspect, except I'd already had a chance to explore the world the proper way in another game.

Fun.

You could make this argument for the entire franchise.
Yeah it runs in the same engine and has the same physics as Ocarina. Windwaker and Twilight don't veer that much from just strictly that.
EDIT: (Okay Skyward overhauled the combat, but it was a revolution that many hated on)

They didn't really overhaul combat/player actions/physics until BoTW. There were minor changes.

I think what excites people is new worlds to explore, new dungeons that last more than 15 mins, new stories and characters.
It seems new mechanics/tools weren't enough to convince people with Tears. At least in this thread.

If Tears new mechanics were applied to an entire new world, had dungeons that required you to actually remember what you did with the other puzzles/rooms in the dungeon, and had its own completely different story and characters, I think people would have been more obsessed with it.

It's possible the weird complexity of its mechanics is not enticing also. Like Majora. Sometimes people just want more straightforward stuff.

Well anyways with ultrahand going away, the next entry surely will be more grounded (literally and figuratively).

 

[PixelKnight]

You could make this argument for the entire franchise.
Yeah it runs in the same engine and has the same physics as Ocarina. Windwaker and Twilight don't veer that much from just strictly that.

They didn't really overhaul combat/player actions/physics until BoTW. There were minor changes.

I think what excites people is new worlds to explore, new dungeons that last more than 15 mins, new stories and characters.
It seems new mechanics/tools weren't enough to convince people with Tears. At least on here.

If Tears new mechanics were applied to an entire new world, had dungeons that required you to actually remember what you did with the other puzzles/rooms in the dungeon, and had its own completely different story and characters, I think people would have been more obsessed with it.

It's possible the weird complexity of its mechanics is not enticing also. Like Majora. Sometimes people just want more straightforward stuff.

Well anyways with ultrahand going away, the next entry surely will be more grounded (literally and figuratively).

I mean, looking at Fami talking about TotK last year, the forum was obsessed with it for months

 

[Coco98bisFR]

I'll always be mad at Nintendo for not making ToTK more different and unique than it actually is. We could have had so much more than just BoTW-bis + Zonai tech instead of Sheikah Tech + some sky islands + an uninteresting underground map.

 

[LegendofLex]

I'd love for someone to explain to me what makes BoTW revolutionary/a revelation compared to ToTK. I feel like it's impossible, everything you will note is also present in ToTK.

BotW has a world that was VERY good at drawing you into the nooks and crannies out of pure curiosity.

TotK puts more stuff in a lot of those nooks and crannies on the surface map, like caves and such. And it was fun to discover those, and I wished they'd been in BotW.

But TotK also adds the sky and Depths which are - I'll just say it - not even in the same league as the surface, and both huge disappointments.

And ON TOP OF THAT, the core BotW world that got copied into TotK - the parts that were mostly unchanged - most of that world is actually less interesting and less well utilized than it was before.

TotK creates a lot of interesting spaces, sure, but I feel like it makes much worse use of the blank spaces than BotW did. And that's partly because it really wasn't a very good idea to reuse that world map, in the end. But it's also because the game decided to heavily prioritize the new stuff - the caves and dungeons and sky and Depths - rather than making the surface a great sequel in its own right.

So I think TotK ends up being a worse BotW and also most of the more unique stuff it offers is ALSO worse than BotW. Even though I also think the caves were an awesome addition and the physics systems rule and I love the level of ambition that's there.

 

[dyle]

If you asked people today which was better I think BotW would win with upwards of 80% of the vote. It's a more elegant and thoughtful game, while TotK is bigger but messier. The way in which TotK makes BotW obsolete (in that it is a standalone game with shockingly little direct connection to its predecessor that allows you to get your fill by only playing one of the game) is actually its greatest weakness.

 

[Leviraps]

I think both games are fantastic. It’s hard to pick which is better but I think TOTK runs away with it. Incredible sequel and seeing Hyrule evolve all these years, seeing NPC’s years later having grown up that remember me, having access to the same horses I tamed in BOTW (!!!), and the much improved dungeons and roads to those dungeons were so much fun. I love it so much! Still wish we got DLC and master mode though

 

[therourke]

Nonsense. The real truth is that BOTW is a much better game, and history will recognise that.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

I think the problem here is trying to play it like minecraft and just build some massive contraption. Those machines are costly and the devs wanted you to use things that are more small scale with a focus on efficiency, on engineering to solve a current problem. For example a very useful machine you can build is a rocket attached to an extended spring. You get on top of the spring and hit it to activate the rocket+make the spring go back. Then you can hit the spring mid-air to get launched even higher. Only two parts, but very useful. Battle bots are the same way, instead of building a death machine you can just use the homing carts or towers and attach one or two weapons/batteries to it to aid you in combat. Plenty of useful stuff to be done that doesn't cost so much.

Honestly though, I don't think this is a great argument in favor of Tears of the Kingdom? A lot of the times when I did a challenge where Nintendo literally gave you the minimum amount of tools needed to do the job (for example, Korok escort missions), the physics being so realistic essentially meant I could make the device the most logical way, place it in the right direction, and still have it not work. I specifically remember there was one Korok escort where Nintendo gave you stuff to make a very simple glider and doing that, even when putting it in the exact correct direction, would lead you straight down to the middle of a battle between Lizalfos and Constructs. And like, being punished for using the tools they wanted me to use was just not fun? Another time making a very simple spring to catapult the Korok just simply didnt work even though it was clearly what the game wanted. It got to a point where making things overly complex and using batteries was always the better decision. I loved building stuff in Tears but it's actually insane how rarely simple devices worked.

 

[D.Lo]

Yep, how is posible that Sheikah towers, that have been there for 10.000 years, and guardians that were restored and working for 100 years, suddenly disappear??
I was really hoping to see non corrupted guardians helping people rebuild towns and the Hyrule castle... Even summoning one to help Link or having mini games like racing against them haha!

TotK has that Ganondorf hands/ghost, which kinda replace them, but honestly, it's not even close as a boss and doesn't allow much gameplay fun.

Yeah it was so odd.

It really had an alternate universe type setup, except that all the characters carried over...

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

BotW is already getting "rehabilitated" in the sense that people are reexamining it and looking at how it did things differently from TotK and how ahead of the curve it was in 2017 (and in some respects still is). But generally, strongly negative opinions on both BotW and TotK are pretty fringe and not really shared by a majority of people.