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Politics Why do trans exclusionary feminists hate trans people so much? And why does respected balanced media keep platforming them with no criticism.

Army of Light

Army of Light

Cappy
Pronouns
She/Her
I guess I am just frustrated. I already hate myself. I hate my body. I hate my life. I feel like my appearance makes me unemployable. I had to move away from my conservative hometown because of it. I'm not so much desiring to be a woman as I am desiring to be nothing at all and to have never been.

I just see all this hate of people like me, coming from educated people, coming from feminists, coming from lesbians who have experienced both misogyny and homophobia, and who in my opinion should know better. And it's not just a little bit of hate. It is a deep, obsessive form of hate. It's a hate that is the entire purpose of organizations they go out of their way to form, music festivals they organize, their twitter accounts, their self identity. They talk about rape. They talk about trans women as if we are their rapists.

And they have platforms and extensive power. On the news, on the BBC, the Guardian, all the news papers, they are the only perspective that matters. They never get "canceled" even as they complain about it, we do. We get defunded, we get our talks canceled. We get necessary medical care taken away. We get our right to use the bathroom or private facilities taken away. Dave Chappelle still gets to be a millionaire. He will likely have as many gigs ahead of him as he wants. The feminist who claim to represent all feminists get to complain about being fired and canceled for money on national platforms. They make ludicrous and unchallenged claims such as saying that if they don't have sex with trans women, they will be fired for being transphobic. I have never heard of that ever happening but the claim goes unchallenged. I will say though that while you don't have to have sex with anybody, if you keep saying you don't want to have sex with trans people, over and over again, whether or not anyone asked you to, to anyone who will listen or who is forced to listen to you, yeah, I am going to think you are as transphobic as I think of someone as racist if they said the same thing about dark skinned women while highlighting demeaning stereotypes about minorities.

I saw the footage of the Wi Spa protests. If I just happened to be walking by, being a visibly non-passing trans woman, I am pretty sure I would have been physically attacked and the police would have let them do it. I might be incorrectly regarded as a counter protester just for existing. It is degrading seeing these incidents day in and day out. That whole story was a manufactroversy and when they finally did announce a trans woman with a record of indecent exposure was arrested, again, merely for being at a Spa where people are expected to be naked, the media left out the context that the previous charges were from survival sex work. That woman could just as easily been me.

I know I am not supposed to say this but when I see someone describe themselves as a feminist in their bio, without qualification, I get wary and scared of them. I used to respect feminism, even before I transitioned, but now I fear them. It's a red flag when people say they are feminists. I believe in equality and I condemn misogyny. I think the struggle for women's liberation is still ongoing, from healthcare rights, to birth control and abortion, LGBT equality to parental leave and equal pay. And yet I am scared of feminists because some feminists weaponize the same language to organize hate against people like me.

And no matter how depressed I get, I can't just disengage from it. This is not an abstract issue for me. I live this way. I can't take off who I am. Other people can treat this like a political debate. I can't. I win the argument or I lose rights. It doesn't feel like a fair fight. Some gays and lesbians have gone out of their way, deciding that since they have marriage equality in the US, that they should kick the T out of LGBT. Or they are willing to campaign for nondiscrimination laws that do not include protection of gender identity.

Like what is my life even worth to anybody in power?
 
I don't have any answers or anything constructive to say, but I didn't want to read this and just pass over it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you and many others have to deal with a world that is hostile towards you. You're right that it is unfair you have to fight for your right to exist when the rest of us don't have to.
 
I wish I could do more than offer words of support. As a transwoman, I know the hatred can be overwhelming. Everything from stares on the street, hack comedians, billion dollar hack writers, and politicians actively working to erasing us from past present and future. But I have to believe that things will get better, that more and more people are beginning to understand and accept our existence.
 
Unfortunately, a lot of people have "fuck you, got mine" mentality. You see this minorities who support obvious racist political groups. You see this with women who think because they have moved up one step on the ladder that they can look down on others. And those in power use this mentality to stay in power. A can stay at the top if they can convince B to look down on C.

Even though he seen a recently display of transphobia from prominent people and organizations, particularly in the UK, I do believe that the minds of the general populace are changing, even if it does feel too slow at times. I've seen more people be more mindful on how they talk about trans people. Just this year, a long time friend came out as trans and their Facebook timeline was met with a tidal wave of love and support. I don't think I would have seen that same support from those people even just 10 years ago.
 
I know it's not easy, and amidst the constant negativity about whether we should even be able to exist it's easy to get tired. There's days where I just cut off the news entirely because I don't want to hear about any more of this awful stuff happening around the world. It really is too much sometimes.

You gotta remember, while these voices are dangerous and often people in a position of privilege and power, they are far from the majority. The vast majority of people I've met in real life have been positive and supportive. The negative voices are nothing but a bunch of losers; a vocal minority. They act the way they do because the only purpose of their actions is to cause suffering. Most people are not like them.

These people don't assign any value to our lives. But many others do. Things will get better. It's not always easy to hang in there, but I hope that you will. You matter.
 
to answer the question in the thread title i think terfs are largely women who view their womanhood as their lifelong burden and transwomen as kind of a stolen valor situation; a position born almost entirely from a bitter jealousy in a way.

you mention in the post that one would think that a person who experiences misogyny should "know better" but i think the very fact they have experienced gender based discrimination their entire lives is what makes them turn their nose up at transwomen who, in their eyes, have reaped the benefits of being assigned male at birth in a society that largely favors males. it can be difficult to argue against because i think that to many a layperson their position makes logical sense. which is why i think they continue to be given a platform by places like the bbc. theyve managed to successfuly mask a bitter and bigoted ideology with a message thats relatively easy for people to empathize with.

i wish i had something to say that could make all the pain this situation causes to so many transfolk disappear because its definitely not fucking fair. i can only imagine how dehumanizing it is to feel like little more than a footnote in a political debate that doesnt even offer you a seat at the table. all i can really do is promise that i will never stop advocating for you to be able to live in whatever way feels right for you and try to offer some words of encouragement: dont let these scumbags make you feel like any less of a human being.

one thing almost all of us have in common is that none of our lives matter to people in power. on that level we're all in this together and the fight for a more fair world is better for having you here.

dont let them win.
 
I'll never understand why so many people have an agenda against trans people. Like your identity and your right to exist is just some debate or political agenda. It's not right that you or anyone else should have to fight for these things.

I know there's a lot of people, far too many who think this way. But I do genuinely believe that these idiots are not the majority, and that more people are far more understanding and respectful now to such issues than they were even five years ago. The tide is slowly turning, and it will continue to turn. I hope you hang in there, and that you know that you matter.
 
People fight to make others believe the lie that their life does not matter, and while this is something that people can rationalize, it still hurts to be on the receiving end of this and I'm sorry you and so many others are made to feel this way, even amongst groups that should not turn away from the suffering you are subjected to as a trans woman. Your life matters no matter how much people think they can pretend it doesn't. It matters when you feel isolated, can't allow yourself to trust others fully or need to light a signal somewhere, anywhere to make people remember it does... but it also matters because you're here and no one can take that truth away from you, whether you're laying your emotions bare or just participating in any other discussion.

Marginalized people have not "won" and trying to create some false race to skip ahead of others to won't get anyone closer to winning, it's terrible to see how much people want to try to block others out of the conversation in the hopes it'll make people who oppress them give them a break.
 
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I can't possibly give an answer to this nor ever truly understand how it must feel to be hated for just existing. I'm sorry that all of you have to deal with that.
What those TERFs use as an... excuse is they fought for their rights as women and don't want, in their eyes, non-women to enter their space and water everything down or make shit unsafe again. Maybe it's just this attitude of "I fought for this, now I don't wanna share it" or "I got treated like shit, now let me treat everyone after me just the same". But Hate in general can't be explained properly with reason. It is unreasonable and disgusting
 
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It's depressing for sure. Here in the UK transphobia is a constant in politics and the media, but I'm glad there's also plenty of people speaking up in our defence and polls suggest majority support for trans people. The smear campaign is relentless but also desperate.

We have to be prepared to fight for trans rights, because if we don't, other LGBT groups and abortion rights are next.
 
Just another slippery slope most didnt see coming.

When straight and cis men and women were calling them "feminazis" no one cared, they were lauded and pushed into positions in the various forms of media with the likes of the BBC always trotting out people like "radical feminist" Germaine Greer then they switched targets and suddenly they became an issue that was too late to stop swiftly.

The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend.
 
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I think Kaitlyn Jenner being one of the biggest figures at the start of the current wave of Trans Rights might be a big part of it, at least anecdotally. A few of the progressive cis women I know had a pretty sour opinion that Jenner, who is not very progressive in general, went straight to "Woman of the Year" despite getting to (outwardly) benefit from male privilege for a long time. The good news is that none of them are/became TERFs and are definitely pro-Trans Rights now, but I feel like on a larger scale this feeling of resentment could have driven some of the bigotry.
james said:
to answer the question in the thread title i think terfs are largely women who view their womanhood as their lifelong burden and transwomen as kind of a stolen valor situation; a position born almost entirely from a bitter jealousy in a way.

you mention in the post that one would think that a person who experiences misogyny should "know better" but i think the very fact they have experienced gender based discrimination their entire lives is what makes them turn their nose up at transwomen who, in their eyes, have reaped the benefits of being assigned male at birth in a society that largely favors males. it can be difficult to argue against because i think that to many a layperson their position makes logical sense. which is why i think they continue to be given a platform by places like the bbc. theyve managed to successfuly mask a bitter and bigoted ideology with a message thats relatively easy for people to empathize with.
Click to expand...
Yeah, basically this. This is also an easy "gut reaction" sort of stance for people that don't know a lot about trans rights or struggles, which makes it more prevalent and harder to push back against.
 
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Caitlyn Jenner wasn't named woman of the year, that was part of the manufactroversy. She was listed among many other women.

Also the community by and large hates her and journalists could easily find that out of they talked to us but our opinions are not listened to just as the BBC, the Guardian, and the rest of the media view our lives as not worth protecting because "women (not including us) have very real concerns." We're less than 1% of the population, our boycotts mean little. Democracy is four wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
 
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I`ve been listening to the Obama podcast. Obama brings up fighting Optimism and the reason all these anti-social changes fights are happening and anti-social change voices are louder than ever, is because the bigots are losing the battle and these are their death cries.

Compare LGBT and Minority issues even 10-20 years ago and today. Polling shows America now overwhelmingly oppose anti-transgender laws. Social change requires fighting optimism that there will be a better day.
 
I don't feel like I have much to say that's useful, but I still wanted to say this:

You deserve to have happiness in your life, OP.
 
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The platforms do this because they're not respected, especially by the side that thinks a minority's identity is inherently political, who also happen to be the more lucrative side (religious groups have especially deep pockets). This both sides crap crap doesn't fly in an actual "leftist"/reality=truth way, so they go for what will keep them up, even if it means this type of stuff. Look at Netflix, you think they've felt anything outside of traffic into work?

The fucked thing is the people at the top pushing this know they're lying, as soon as you poke at any level of their "argument" they no longer hear you. So all we can do is support those who do support us and hope that list grows.
 
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Because they fear what they don't understand. Ignorance breeds fear, and fear breeds hate.

It's irrational, but it didn't have to be. The problem is you can't speak to those who don't want to listen.
 
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We're next in line as the new moral panic after public opinion eventually swung in favor of women's rights, in favor of black rights, in favor of gay rights, and so on. The regressives of society needed a new target and found one, and invoked the classic fear and hate against us.

Public opinion will shift our way as long as we keep existing in the open and making it clear that we are not going anywhere.

I recognize though that I am a bit of a coward. I have privilege as a passing trans woman, I don't get questioned and that makes my life easier. In that sense I am not always contributing to trans acceptance. But I also care about my own well being. It's a difficult line to tread.
 
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Jesus Christ

This lady literally wants to lynch me and the BBC regards her as respectable and credible enough to hear out


This person would be easily dismissed as a crackpot but her views have been adopted into mainstream discourse.
 
That's a heck of a meltdown there, when you start going on about "affronts to god" and "redeeming souls" you don't exactly get fence sitters on your side.

Directly naming people to lynch can't be wise either, I imagine the police have to start looking into such comments as threats.
 
Ill echo everyone here. We stand with you and you deserve a life full of happines. Terfs are just vile women who dont deserve s second of your time.
 
Really fantastic critique of Chapelle and his recent stuff by my new recent favorite commentator who happens to be a cis black man. Very thorough, he has transfolk speak through out it and he even acknowledges critiques to his mistakes in the video in the comments.



Cw for his jokes and more on transphobia.
 
Apparently the 'journalist' responsible for that BBC article was warned about Lily Cade being a rapist by a trans woman, then proceeded to just publish the article anyway (and claim no trans woman was willing to talk to her!).

There needs to be consequences for this. Not holding my breath that the BBC won't just ride out the backlash though.
 
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Terfs are such hateful, miserable people. It's very sad.
 
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Harina said:
Really fantastic critique of Chapelle and his recent stuff by my new recent favorite commentator who happens to be a cis black man. Very thorough, he has transfolk speak through out it and he even acknowledges critiques to his mistakes in the video in the comments.



Cw for his jokes and more on transphobia.
Click to expand...


Excellent video, it completly desmantles Chapelle's BS while making several points.

Such a sad case of what Chapelle is doing, old man is so full of himself, it is really pathetic to see it unfold, he fancies himself as this "comedic Messiah", such a cringe. The real problem is all the hate he generates with his attacks and the imitation it spawns in other "comedians" (lots of them very untalented, unlike Chapelle).
 
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I know this started off negative but maybe we fill the thread with positive things to offset as we see them.

Here's the first openly gay top flight footballer standing up for the community against the LGB alliance trying to score some points.

 
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