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Discussion What Do You Think A New Star Fox "Needs" In Order To Become Successful?

I really don't get why people believe a rail shooter gameplay won't work today. This is what made the Star Fox identity in the first place, if you remove that then will take away the series essency. Some cringe-worthy ideas here just to follow the modern gaming trends just for the sake of it but in the end won't work. Battlefield clone? Please.

That's why I said, in my previous post, that they need to improve that formula into the modern gameplay standards on what the series did it before. Remember Star Fox 2? You can fly freely into the galaxy, this can easily be implemented today on a open world gameplay, throw the BOTW/TOTK open world exploration but into space and planets, that'll work nicely. Open world games works mostly into mission-based gameplay. When you have to start a mission, here we go: classic Star Fox rail gameplay here.

Anyone saying a Mass Effect-like dialog options and alternate endings is right on the money, this is one of the things that Star Fox is notorious for.

This would make a hell out of a Star Fox game.
 
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I agree with most of the prior posts, but personally, I think a version of competitive multiplayer might help the series quite a bit. Might need to be quite a bit different, but Star Fox already has a very distinct visual feel to it, so I think it could work.
 
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Midway-AGNC- said:
I really don't get why people believe a rail shooter gameplay won't work today. This is what made the Star Fox identity in the first place, if you remove that then will take away the series essency. Some cringe-worthy ideas here just to follow the modern gaming trends just for the sake of it but in the end won't work. Battlefield clone? Please.

That's why I said, in my previous post, that they need to improve that formula into the modern gameplay standards on what the series did it before. Remember Star Fox 2? You can fly freely into the galaxy, this can easily be implemented today on a open world gameplay, throw the BOTW/TOTK open world exploration but into space and planets, that'll work nicely. Open world games works mostly into mission-based gameplay. When you have to start a mission, here we go: classic Star Fox rail gameplay here.

Anyone saying a Mass Effect-like dialog options and alternate endings is right on the money, this is one of the things that Star Fox is notorious for.

This would make a hell out of a Star Fox game.
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IMO for a rail shooter to work, you need more to support it. Much like how a Sonic game need something to support its levels.

Take something like Sonic Generations, incredible game, way too damn short and a game people still complained paying full price for.

Then you get Sonic Frontiers, for all intent and purposes the game is still reliant on Generations style levels, but the HUB world and all the challenges within help to fill up the time while being frictionless enough to not disrupt pace.

For Star Fox, you would need to expand what you do between those missions more, like exploring the Great Fox and talking with characters that could impact future levels , having extra side missions, customizable instead of being dropped into a menu map.

And if that somehow doesnt bloat the game to a slog, then maybe there's something there.
 
I think most of Fami hit the nail on the head here. Star Fox as it is just isn’t really built to survive in today’s market, unless it takes a severe price slash and releases as an eShop only title. Even at the budget $50 price tag, it’s a hard sell to get people to buy a rail shooter that’s maybe 5 hours long tops, regardless of the quality.

How they expand it would probably dictate the price, though. Keeping its rail shooter identity and expanding that into a full game might still need the $50 price tag to get more people interested, while expanding on Assault and turning Star Fox into a big definitive space adventure could definitely be some at full price.

Given its wider appeal, greater scope, and higher odds of strong critical reception, I think the latter is the way to go if they really want to expand Star Fox. Even if it’s amazingly well designed, a rail shooter’s market appeal is always gonna be limited.
 
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The first two games are technical marvels and the characters are popular in Smash but in terms of gameplay, like it's good but not full price for what amounts in a 2-3 hour game good.

I don't think the series is fully dead because Nintendo values its IP immensely but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see another one for years and it ends up being another Zero situation.
 
Spyder said:
I don't think the series is fully dead because Nintendo values its IP immensely but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see another one for years and it ends up being another Zero situation.
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if they feel like there's another Zero situation on the horizon, I think they would just cancel the game. that'd be priority #1: don't be Star Fox Zero all over again. at least that's easy because a lot of the criticism came from the controls
 
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I always thought Star Fox Assault was the right path for the series and I wished it had continued in that direction, but more polished. Star Fox 64 is one of my favorite games of all time but I understand how that style of hyper-replayable, 90-minute-long story rail shooter isn't really an easy sell today. So I think a linear story with a variety of gameplay types in the vein of Assault could be a good way of going.
 
the problem with going back to an assault format to me is that there are very few Nintendo devs I would trust to make a fun and engaging third-person shooter segments
 
SpaceGodzilla said:
the problem with going back to an assault format to me is that there are very few Nintendo devs I would trust to make a fun and engaging third-person shooter segments
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Just because a developer doesn't have direct experience in it doesn't mean they can't do it.
 
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Either give the IP again to an external Dev that is interested to come up with a cool new idea to the existing core game-loop (That this time isn't determined by something similarly horrible like the WiiU GamePad) or just drop the whole game part and finally make a Star Fox Anime.
 
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Depends what you mean by successful. If you want it to sell 2m+? Probably a different genre tbh, or at least a mix
 
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I was convinced Nintendo were working on a starfox game with the battle for atlas team, as it seems like a no-brainer. unfortunately looking on mobygames, the team seems to be scattered around the industry in the Toronto so that's v unlikely now.
 
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Mer.Saloon said:
IMO for a rail shooter to work, you need more to support it. Much like how a Sonic game need something to support its levels.

Take something like Sonic Generations, incredible game, way too damn short and a game people still complained paying full price for.

Then you get Sonic Frontiers, for all intent and purposes the game is still reliant on Generations style levels, but the HUB world and all the challenges within help to fill up the time while being frictionless enough to not disrupt pace.

For Star Fox, you would need to expand what you do between those missions more, like exploring the Great Fox and talking with characters that could impact future levels , having extra side missions, customizable instead of being dropped into a menu map.

And if that somehow doesnt bloat the game to a slog, then maybe there's something there.
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I agree with you, hence why I suggested it to be a BOTW/TOTK open world in space with mission based progression with alternate paths, dialog options and level up system.
 
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Go full R-Type Final/Armored Core and give me insane customization on my vehicles, and you can have solid 15-20 hour playthroughs with multiple endings. I think making a rail shooter that long would be like pulling teeth though, and I actually think a hybrid of Star Fox Assault and Command would play out to be pretty interesting.

My own wacky idea would be to make it like an RTS/turn-based strategy game where you actually get to play out the dogfights/battle encounters.

Unfortunately I do think Star Fox probably needs to reinvent the wheel rather than just remaking SF64 again if Nintendo's gonna make another one.
 
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Something not really popular here (?).

Go only multiplayer and F2P. Small budget, not AAA. Simple, fun and accessible. It could grow on content with time it succeed.

Edit: NOT a “starfox 99”, the starfox 64 multiplayer modernized ;)
 
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Triistan said:
Something not really popular here (?).

Go only multiplayer and F2P. Small budget, not AAA. Simple, fun and accessible. It could grow in content with time of it succeed.

Edit: NOT starfox 99, the starfox 64 multiplayer modernized ;)
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I actually think a Star Fox battle royale would unironically rip ass. Either score attack playing through waves and maximizing points, or just massive-scale dogfights with different ship classes.
 
Edie Napier said:
I actually think a Star Fox battle royale would unironically rip ass. Either score attack playing through waves and maximizing points, or just massive-scale dogfights with different ship classes.
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Yeah it could work very well, but I think it shouldn’t be limited to a “battle royal” mode and it should be able to monetize on cosmetics.
 
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Furry Ace Combat/Armored Core is still my answer.

Transformable Arwing mechas that can be customized as you so wish, with a lot of weapon variety to boot, and the game itself is based off a mission-based structure that would lend itself well to replaying for higher scores, better parts, and finding different routes in various stages.
 
Star Fox Assault seemed liked a good template that was abandoned a bit too early imo. If they trimmed some of the on foot stuff down and made the stages similar to 64, branching paths and all, but kept the ideas behind Assault's take on dog fighting using different vehicles it seems like it would be a fun time.

I get what they were envisioning with the Wii U but that was the wrong direction to go in. The arcadey feeling was completely lost for me.

Although, I'm one of those outliers who would flip at a sequel or similar Zelda-like Starfox Adventure. That game was rough but had something that always kept me wanting to explore. Probably also having to do with dinosaurs for whatever reason. Don't remember the temples or dungeons being particularly well designed, but I'd give another go at something like them with some novel ideas behind weighted switches and bombing walls.
 
Not sure if it's a hot take, but I think it should be a visual showcase like og,64,adventure,,assault and 3d were for there consoles
 
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A few things. coming from someone who is not a fan of the series at all:

* Immaculate vibes. Great music that evokes nostalgia from a simpler time.

It needs to be impossible to mistake for any other game. Character portraits that look like puppets - redesigns of the ones there ^ Maybe make the ships and environments be designed to look like practical models. Use tilt shift photography or something. Think Thunderbirds or what-have-you.

* It needs to not be a rail shooter, but to make flight feel as simple as it is in a rail shooter. Making 3D flight feel simple and fun is one of the holy grails of interface design and it hasn't been done yet - but it could be. My solution: Some kind of tether. You're always locking on to a target, which takes away a lot of the complications of navigating 3D space. Basically, you're always trailing or circling whatever you lock onto, and you can switch targets at will. The phrase 'grappling hooks make everything better' has been overused to the point of meaninglessness, but it could definitely improve 3D flight action games, no doubt in my mind.

* Keep the transformation from Star Fox 2 - a third person action game is an easier sell than a 3D flight game. Make mech combat feel flashy and fun, like a Platinum joint.

That's it. I saved Star Fox.
 
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make a "Starlink-like" project, but with Nintendo refinements on pace, variety and global cleaning - no mandatory-toy neither
 
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New Donker said:
Make it a rogue lite with some really cool persistent upgrades.
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This.

I'm not sure a story-driven, on-rails SF would do anything right now. But a roguelite developed by Nintendo and based on that universe...... That's an intriguing prospect.

Keep the opposing teams, Star Fox and Star Wolf, but expand and add more. Huge online multiplayer possibilities.
 
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Just star fox 64 gameplay, but loads more
Missions, load more alternative routes and secrets and loads of crazy endings.

Starfox also seems like it would
lend itself well to a big online multiplayer mode as well.

Also photo realistic graphics for the space craft and have the characters be puppets.
 
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Star Fox Battlefront.

With on foot and multiple vehicule sections.

With 32 multiplayer with various game mode.
 
ILikeFeet said:
furry mass effect

I've always said that being a rail shooter was of limited novelty. I don't think it's something they can continuously make unless these are $20 eshop games. most people now know Fox from Smash Bros, so they should be leaning into that moveset. Assault has a good starting point in the fact that it has on-foot missions. modernizing that somehow instead of the arcadey style Assault had would be a step in the right direction. some exploration like Adventure, but more open? Furry Vanquish? since the characters are the biggest draw of SF, something that allows for interaction with them, like the banter the games usually have, but more involved. maybe some in-between mission stuff.

honestly, hard to say what it should do, but easy to say what it shouldn't do for the sake of longevity. by dumping the rail shooting (or just make that supplementary gameplay), you are pretty much left with a blank canvas
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maybe they can make it modern ratchet and clank esque game but with more substantial and in depth ship combat sections
 
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I feel like I need the 30+ year olds to understand that the appeal for a 1-3 hour long on-rails game is not gonna sell for $60 no matter how many “alternate paths” and “crazy endings” you throw at it. Especially for a series that most people playing games today have no nostalgia for because the last game that sold well and had good word of mouth came out about 25 years ago.

I mean you already see the immense pushback people have against 10-20 hour long 2D games, regardless of the quality. Unless they release a game in the style of 64 for like $20 on the eShop the series needs to evolve if it wants to have any success in today’s market. Maybe a multiplayer focus can save it and the traditional Star Fox gameplay can be treated as the “story campaign” like with Splatoon, idk. I don’t see Nintendo giving any dev a massive budget to make Star Fox “furry Mass Effect” given the series’ history.
 
Here are the cornerstones of the series that everything should be built around:

-Into-the-screen scrolling shooter with bombastic setpieces and the occasional wide open dogfighting sequence
-Piloting a bunch of cool spaceships and other vehicles
-Multiple alternative routes and secrets that add variation to an otherwise linear progression
-Constant squad chatter including variations based on player actions

Here are the drawbacks of such an approach in the modern market:

-It is harder to deliver spectacle in the way the most successful games in the series did, because they were showcases of early 3D hardware, and the Switch 2 can deliver good but not cutting-edge presentation
-The typical length of games in the series are a hard sell in the current environment
-There are few hooks to maintain player interest after all routes have been cleared, besides self-improvement via high scores

To address the drawbacks, one solution would be adopting a roguelite progression and making the game run-based and repeatable by design. This is the core of the appeal of roguelites - they usually deliver deliberately challenging gameplay that can be finished in a single session, much like classic StarFox in its day, but the roguelite framework provides:

1) Longer-term progression that is expected of modern games at modern pricepoints
2) A way for less skilled players to overcome challenge barriers through the use of permanent upgrades, the removal of a traditional lives system, and creating the expectation that dying is expected and a normal part of the experience

From there, tie it to the rest of the series' strengths:

-Use a dynamic solar system map where the player starts each playthrough on a randomised seed, that will deliver a different variation of objectives they can start from each time. This isn't even wildly different than StarFox2, that offered similar choices. Similar to Hades, gate story progression behind multiple runs and use the contrivance of e.g. needing to beat multiple generals before facing Andross
-As per the above, each location can have variations from the usual route or enemy patterns depending on randomised conditions that might be in effect - e.g. StarWolf could randomly appear on any stage, where they'll attack your squadmates throughout the level, add reinforcements to the route, or replace the stage's usual boss with a StarWolf dogfight, etc.
-Progression should give the player some form of currency/R&D progression/spaceship parts etc that can be used to customise the Arwing and other vehicles during each run. Some permanent upgrades for players who are struggling (and alternative paintjobs for vehicles) but most upgrades are for that run only.
-Players choose their squadmates from a wide cast of existing and new characters. Squadmates may have unique perks to differentiate from each other, and some squadmates may open alternative routes if taken to a location relevant to them

Pair this with a PvE online multiplayer mode that follows a similar structure, but on a much smaller scale to keep multiplayer sessions short, e.g. 3 randomised missions of increasing difficulty that are about 5 minutes per stage, followed by a boss. Boss kills award currency that can be exchanged for ship upgrades/cosmetics. In multiplayer, all unlocks are permanent so you can extensively customise your ship over time. The player character in PvE isn't Fox but a fully customisable player character, similar to how multiplayer avatars work in other genres.
 
Just give it battle royale multiplayer. Nintendo could use more multiplayer shooters anyway, so just allow for 99 dogfights.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
Star Fox fans just mainly want a proper followup to Star Fox 64: A great arcade railshooter that combines different modes of play and a fun multiplayer. No weird experiments or radical departures that abandon everything what made that game great in the first place. Overthinking this has led to the bad state of the IP since then.
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But that’s the issue

Who’s gonna buy it other than star fox fans.

Star fox assault had the right idea, it was just executed not very well
 
Buy the rights to Star Citizen, replace all humans with animals, and retitle the game to Star Fox: Citizen.

Or something.
 
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Djehuty said:
But that’s the issue

Who’s gonna buy it other than star fox fans.

Star fox assault had the right idea, it was just executed not very well
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z6J5miO.jpeg
 
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Please refrain from making gross jokes about mental health. – MissingNo., Tangerine_Cookie, Zellia, ngpdrew, Dardan Sandiego, NabiscoFelt
The first step is having a vision of what the franchise is supposed to be instead of constantly changing genres to match Miyamoto's bipolar disorder.

The second is setting the story after the good endings in Command where the Star Fox team actually grows beyond the original sausage fest. Star Fox Zero was a step backwards in this regard because it removed every woman except Katt just to please diaper wearing incels.

And the biggest thing on my list is evolving the Star Fox 64 formula like Star Fox Adventures hinted at until Assault took a literal dump on it. They could even expand on Adventures gameplay by making it a space adventure game that could incorporate some planet exploration just to retain the Zelda like gameplay.

Nintendo also needs to start making online multiplayer a focal point as well. Star Fox 64 3D suffered because of the multiplayer being as limited as it was.
 
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I love Star Fox and its rail-shooting gameplay, but I feel that for it to embrace a new audience it needs to expand beyond that. However, it has to do so while making rail-shooting a major part of the experience; after all, that's the franchise's greatest defining trait.
 
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It just needs to not feel trapped in the 90's anymore. For as much as I love the arcadey controls of Star Fox Zero, it didn't help the series from feeling like it's trapped in time.

I remember people saying that Star Fox needs to be a Furry Mass Effect. I feel this completely misses the point of the series. I don't want a Starlink-like experience for Star Fox either. Just doesn't need to be blown up that much. Star Fox is not this grand space epic. Star Fox, above all else, is a Saturday-morning cartoon. Give me episodic structure, give me 25-30 levels, show me CHARACTERS. Show the universe. Move on from the world map (at least for its main mode, there could be a side-story arcade mode like Classic Star Fox that uses existing on-rail levels from the main story.

If all of this sounds familiar, it should. Really, the solution stares all of us right in the face with Kid Icarus Uprising. Star Fox has so much potential. Like so much more than what it is now. IMO now is its time to truly shine.
 
I think that there are two options...

1. Go for something bigger. Longer campaign, more story, variety of mission types and vehicles, etc. This is a big undertaking, but the potential is there. It's a cool set of characters that could be more developed. Consider taking things off the rails. Maybe have a system where you're building up your ship or a base or army or something.

2. Aim for something that is just super tight and polished with something to bring people back, whether that's rogue-like elements, leaderboards, multiplayer, etc. Maybe consider making it a budget title.
 
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I stand by furry mass effect. The series has a lot of the bullet points that Star Fox can hit and has done better than mass effect
  • Linear on-foot shooting. Hell, can even be fitted with arcade replayability like ME3 did with its multiplayer mode
  • Vehicle combat. Star Fox can easily trump this as this was always ME's weak point. Landmaster being a better Mako, Arwing can be both linear and arena combat
  • Great Fox being the Normandy equivalent. Self explanatory, no need for changes here
A little something for everyone (though more balanced towards some gameplay modes than others) and you got a stew going
 
Honestly, I have a good hope that if you take Star Fox Assault, do a graphic facelift, add some solo content to it because it was missing and above all, put a heavy emphasis on a procedural online multiplayer mode, then you can get the best selling game from the franchise. The success of the switch is an opportunity to revive Star Fox.

At this point, for many reasons, Namco looks like the right developer for the future of the series.
 
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Ace Combat-like gameplay/story or even Mass Effect-like gameplay/story.

Star Fox as an IP has a lot of potential to expand beyond what it has been, just replace aliens that have the usual sci-fi alien features with aliens that are animal-like in features. At its base level to me at least, Star Fox just needs to have a decent story, animal-like aliens, and vehicle combat. How much emphasis gets placed on any one thing is up to the developer.

They could just do like Mass Effect have some overarching story, where Fox and crew in the meantime go to various planets and assist the inhabitants with on-foot/on-planet vehicle gameplay. Go back to outer space and where there is story developments and space combat that could also be a fully separate mini-game mode/multiplayer or something. Regularly new crew members that Fox and crew meet come aboard/leave the Great Fox just like the Normandy in Mass Effect.
 
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ILikeFeet said:
furry mass effect

I've always said that being a rail shooter was of limited novelty. I don't think it's something they can continuously make unless these are $20 eshop games. most people now know Fox from Smash Bros, so they should be leaning into that moveset. Assault has a good starting point in the fact that it has on-foot missions. modernizing that somehow instead of the arcadey style Assault had would be a step in the right direction. some exploration like Adventure, but more open? Furry Vanquish? since the characters are the biggest draw of SF, something that allows for interaction with them, like the banter the games usually have, but more involved. maybe some in-between mission stuff.

honestly, hard to say what it should do, but easy to say what it shouldn't do for the sake of longevity. by dumping the rail shooting (or just make that supplementary gameplay), you are pretty much left with a blank canvas
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ILikeFeet said:
I stand by furry mass effect. The series has a lot of the bullet points that Star Fox can hit and has done better than mass effect
  • Linear on-foot shooting. Hell, can even be fitted with arcade replayability like ME3 did with its multiplayer mode
  • Vehicle combat. Star Fox can easily trump this as this was always ME's weak point. Landmaster being a better Mako, Arwing can be both linear and arena combat
  • Great Fox being the Normandy equivalent. Self explanatory, no need for changes here
A little something for everyone (though more balanced towards some gameplay modes than others) and you got a stew going
Click to expand...
I just don't see any basis to the claim there's simply a limited market for linear shooters but somehow people will just innately love the Star Fox characters if you could just plug them into the Mass Effect WRPG/action adventure format and that will sell?

1) Kid Icarus Uprising sold 1 million+ as a rail shooter - with a completely hobbled control scheme on unsuited hardware, based around a completely dormant franchise. Because even with those disadvantages, Sakurai was smart enough to add elements that encourage replayability
2) We already have evidence of StarFox games that insert the characters into the action/adventure format, which has partially led to a franchise that is constantly veering between "let's do something new" and "something new failed, let's overcorrect and offer literally no progression beyond StarFox 64"

I don't believe, in an environment where games with extremely opaque, punishing or "retro" mechanics are thriving in other genres, that rail shooters are somehow a hard sell. I think StarFox would easily break 3 million sales as a linear shooter with just the following additions to the original formula:

-Dump Andross and replace with a completely new villain and selection of enemies, just to double-underline that the game is new
-Absolutely stuff the game with unlockable squadmates who will offer different chatter and alternate routes in certain stages
-Similarly, offer lots of alternative vehicles and cosmetics. Let the player customise who they fly with and what everyone is piloting
-Add some kind of PvE element where you and 3 friends/randoms can fly in formation and do a mini-campaign together in your customised vehicles. Sessions don't need to be any longer than a grand prix session in Mario Kart

You could obviously go way beyond this in terms of modernising the game structure to add more non-linearity, but I think the above elements on their own hit all of the core appeal of the series:

-lots of chatty characters
-cool spaceships
-combination of arcade shmup gameplay + bombastic 3D presentation
-alterative routes and secrets for observant/skilled players
 
Gimme StarFox Mass Effect but with no character choice dialog. More explorative hub worlds though. Prologue should start with James McCloud heading to venom.
 
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