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Discussion What Do You Think A New Star Fox "Needs" In Order To Become Successful?

just toss in a couple dozen Marios on every screen in the background and call it a Mario spinoff even though they aren't doing anything other than exist in the background

maybe also call attention to it by having them disappear at some point in the game and all the other characters stop what they're doing and ask "where's Mario?"
 
Hopefully Miyamoto is playing the long game and all these Nintendo movies eventually lead to something Star Fox, a property actually suited for it
 
This

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Star Fox Begins - My idea for a new Star Fox game

Story A Star Fox team comprising of James McCloud, Peppy Hare & Pigma Dengar look to take down exiled Corneria scientist Andross & his evil forces who have launched assaults across the Lylat system. Intelligence from General Pepper has it that they are looking to steal materials for a new...
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I know Star Fox games are usually built around replay value and alternate paths instead of length, but I think either the series needs to really lean into the replay value element with a smaller title, or just ditch it entirely and make something a bit longer than the average Star Fox game, maybe rework the content made for replay value into just a single path with no real branches, like Kid Icarus Uprising.

I remember a HUGE discussion about Star Fox Zero when it came out is "you can beat the game once pretty fast, is it worth full price?" The quality of Zero itself probably brought that into discussion a little, but we have phenomenal, fairly short games on Switch like Metroid Dread, and that still comes up.
 
furry mass effect

I've always said that being a rail shooter was of limited novelty. I don't think it's something they can continuously make unless these are $20 eshop games. most people now know Fox from Smash Bros, so they should be leaning into that moveset. Assault has a good starting point in the fact that it has on-foot missions. modernizing that somehow instead of the arcadey style Assault had would be a step in the right direction. some exploration like Adventure, but more open? Furry Vanquish? since the characters are the biggest draw of SF, something that allows for interaction with them, like the banter the games usually have, but more involved. maybe some in-between mission stuff.

honestly, hard to say what it should do, but easy to say what it shouldn't do for the sake of longevity. by dumping the rail shooting (or just make that supplementary gameplay), you are pretty much left with a blank canvas
 
Arcade style games that are 1-2 hrs and designed to be replayable won't fly in today's market (sadly) so they'll have to shoot for at least a 15-20 hr game probably.
 
furry Battlefield/Battlefront with heavy emphasis on flight combat. Craploads of new characters, enough to create trading card game out of it. And craploads of merch for them, preferably plushes.

Oh, and a Netflix animated movie/series! To go with that toyline. We want this to be successful, don't we?
 
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JazzyFuture said:
I know Star Fox games are usually built around replay value and alternate paths instead of length, but I think either the series needs to really lean into the replay value element with a smaller title, or just ditch it entirely and make something a bit longer than the average Star Fox game, maybe rework the content made for replay value into just a single path with no real branches, like Kid Icarus Uprising.

I remember a HUGE discussion about Star Fox Zero when it came out is "you can beat the game once pretty fast, is it worth full price?" The quality of Zero itself probably brought that into discussion a little, but we have phenomenal, fairly short games on Switch like Metroid Dread, and that still comes up.
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Maybe the ace combat route with a linear 10-20 hour game but you unlock new Arwings that play differently from one another adding to the replay value?
 
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I think if we're being honest it might need to evolve beyond just classic rail shooter etc... to be really relevant in the 2020s.

For me something like Armored Core VI mixed with Helldivers 2 (but obviously more accessible and Nintendo-y) would make sense -

Classic space fighter combat, mech combat, some on foot sections, give it a compelling but fun story with a Super Sentai vibe, so each member of the crew has their own transforming ship/mech that specialise in certain things, and perhaps they can combine together too... have a bit of a lite Mass Effect companionship mechanic going on in the downtime between missions in the ship, Co-op MP to take on missions together/online (not full scale online MP game like Helldivers but you can complete missions online together etc... more could be added in DLC)

Call it Star Fox Squadron
 
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more than anything, I think the series just needs a stable home

Star Fox has been bounced around from developer to developer basically since its inception and I think that's really hurt the series ability to properly form its own identity and codify what a modern entry in the series should look like. Personally I genuinely think that if Namco had gotten a second attempt to refine their notion of "what even is a modern-day Star Fox", a theoretical Assault 2 could have been an all-timer. But nobody ever gets a second go at the series because something comes out, doesn't quite hit, and then they inevitably try something new with someone new instead of building on anything

So imo, the biggest thing they could do for the series is put together a team that can fully dedicate its time to looking at what Star Fox has been and what it could be, realize their vision for the series, and then (most crucially) give that same team the opportunity to iterate and address what didn't work while doubling down on what did by making a second game
 
forcing Star Fox to be something that it isn't has failed every single time

just make a really good rail shooter with multiple paths/endings and maybe release it at 10 or 20 dollars cheaper than a standard title, especially if standard titles are going up to $70
 
My idea as someone who has never played the franchise is basically to have on foot missions similar to Assault with Splatoonesque shooting but not just with a focus on shooting but also action - give Fox Wolf's slashes from Smash and Falco his jabs from that game as well. Have it be like an action / third person shooter hybrid on the ground, rather than just a shooter.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
My idea as someone who has never played the franchise is basically to have on foot missions similar to Assault with Splatoonesque shooting but not just with a focus on shooting but also action - give Fox Wolf's slashes from Smash and Falco his jabs from that game as well. Have it be like an action / third person shooter hybrid on the ground, rather than just a shooter.
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You’re describing Kid Icarus Uprising!
 
Embrace Starfox 2 and go full roguelike.

Starfox was always envisioned as some sort of puppet space opera. Go full episodic with it, with each run having different objectives and planets to tackle for that syndicated cartoon feel. Play up the "every playthrough is different" angle to the max. Add more fixed "classic" game modes and seeded runs with scoreboards. Steal some emergent gameplay ideas from Starlink like enemies building bases in planets if left unattended.

I always felt Starfox Command got the bad ideas from Starfox 2, when the roguelike elements are right there.
 
batfax said:
forcing Star Fox to be something that it isn't has failed every single time

just make a really good rail shooter with multiple paths/endings and maybe release it at 10 or 20 dollars cheaper than a standard title, especially if standard titles are going up to $70
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Tbf trying to make a rail shooter again hasn't worked either
 
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Mer.Saloon said:
Take the basic idea of Assault (with modern controls), and give it the content of 64 and you've got a solid game right the hell there.
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I think what I would want from Star Fox (I'd also be fine with just "another 64" if it was actually good for once but I feel like people are well sick of that road by now) is like this, but taking a very specific approach to it.

First, make it feel good to play. My strongest memory of Assault, aside from finishing it in a day and the on-foot sections being crushingly boring, was how you could crash the Arwing right into something and there was practically no feedback, it felt like nothing. And fully implement alternate paths like in 64 so the game isn't crazy short. Do something where you can't reach the "real" ending without visiting every level to trick people into thinking it isn't over after the first playthrough if you want, but I don't think the idea that this style of game simply won't work today is extremely well-founded either when there hasn't really been a notable one since Star Fox 64 itself. Unless we want to entertain the idea that Star Successor ever had a chance even if it was 20 hours long. I'm not going to buy that people don't want traditional Star Fox anymore until one that's actually good flops.

But the big hook here is going to be expanding the game with alternate gameplay styles, and we really need to completely reexamine how we're doing this because they keep trying to do it and they have historically always sucked. The ones in 64 were okay, despite basically being slightly worse variations on the base gameplay, and I think that's because they served an effective narrative function. There was something conceptually compelling about diving to the depths of Aquas or following the Macbeth supply train in the Landmaster to try and take it out.

So I think there are two goals to keep in mind here. The first is to not stray too far from the arcade appeal of Star Fox while also creating meaningful variation from the base on-rails gameplay. The all-range mode dogfights are probably the best example of this. They're literally the same gameplay aside from the turning and the addition of that one maneuver I can never remember the inputs for, but they provide the opportunity to do different scenarios you couldn't pull off in an on-rails level. Star Fox Zero, conversely, I would say is a good example of what not to do. The Gyrocopter is just completely divorced from any idea of fun, never mind something that makes any sense in the context of the rest of the game. Star Fox has done stealth, it was literally the level that inspired this one! There had to be a better way to expand upon that than this. Then there's the chicken walker mode. This has the same problem as a lot of Zero's additions in that it just feels fundamentally pointless. You can transform at any time, but being on the ground offers zero advantages. The sections specifically using it have you go inside of a ship or something to step on buttons and shoot targets and do some light platforming, and it's all so... game-y and bland and uncompelling. Not to mention silly.

Which kind of segues nicely into the other objective: to use these alternate gameplay styles to take advantage of Star Fox's space opera setting to create really cool and interesting scenarios. One of my favorite childhood games was Sly 3, and this was essentially what it was all about. The whole concept of the game was to make a sort of playable heist movie, and it uses its large cast of characters and different gameplay styles in service of executing whatever crazy scenarios it wants. Sly always sort of played like this, with way too much time devoted to random things that weren't platforming, but 3 went all-in on character writing and the individual mission scenarios saw a huge boost in quality from 2 (If you want a quick idea of what I'm talking about, compare the first proper missions of 2 and 3). I'd love to see Star Fox do something similar, but faster paced.

It should probably stick to being a shooting game no matter what happens, I think it's pretty much never a great idea to do complete genre shifts from level to level because it's not what you came for and it often suffers compared to the "main attraction", but this is a direction I think the series could really shine in and capture a whole new audience with even if it doesn't change anything about how it fundamentally plays.

Here's how an example level could go. Like a lot of Star Fox levels, this one is inspired by a sci-fi film, in this case the opening of Revenge of the Sith. You begin in a standard on-rails section, with the goal of reaching the enemy flagship during a space battle. All sorts of potential for different events or dialogue along the way, depending on the context, but you eventually reach the flagship and just barely manage to make it into the docking bay. Now, you have to continue on-foot, because there isn't room for the Arwing in here. There are a few different ways to do this, like maybe it could work like an on-rails light gun arcade game, or maybe like a relatively modern flavor of third person shooter. Whatever the case, I think the defining feature of these sections should be Fox's relative vulnerability outside of a vehicle, with you needing to rely on cover or well-timed use of the reflector to survive enemy fire which you no longer have the shielding to absorb or the space and maneuverability to avoid. You've still got the same fundamental aim and shoot arcade scoring stuff going on, but now with a much more vulnerable character to give a different sort of thrill.

And you could keep it simple and go with the classic "destroy the generator and escape before the thing blows up" scenario to cap it off. Or maybe they've captured General Pepper, and you're here to rescue him, and all sorts of things start going wrong after you manage to reach him, with the rest of the team getting involved to try and cover your escape. More intricate scenarios would also give so much more opportunity for the rest of the team to actually do things besides flying past you and asking for help. Like, Slippy could try and hack doors and elevators to help you escape, and you could do scenarios like having to hold enemies off while he gets the door open, or being sent to a bunch of different floors where different things pop out at you while he tries to get an elevator under control. Maybe Falco goes in with you and splits up to try and draw attention away from you, and then you have to meet back up during the escape and cover each other. And we haven't even considered all the things you could do with the concept of alternate mission endings and outcomes leading to alternate paths!

Hell, they could even let you switch perspectives and play as other characters from time to time if they can swing it. The issue with this was always that they were functionally interchangeable, so there was no reason for it, but you might find places where it can work from time to time if you allow them to take on totally different roles in a mission beyond just piloting an Arwing.

Anyway, if you embrace this direction, the possibilities for interesting Star Fox levels are practically limitless, you can imagine as many different vehicles and planets as you want, any sort of objective, it's such a natural direction to take it in and I think if we actually got to see it executed on it would appear downright criminal that we've been doing nothing but watered down 64 stages for so long.
 
It needs 3 things:

1. It needs to be fun to play.
People have touched on Assault, and as much as I enjoyed the game when I was younger (it was my first Star Fox game) I could tell as soon as I played 64 how much better it felt than Assault. The ships had more weight, the level design felt tighter, and the world map seemed mysterious and interesting. They’ve never quite been able to strike that same balance since without just redoing 64 again.

2. It needs an interesting/well written story.
I know this isn’t exactly Nintendo’s forte, but this feels like it was one of the series biggest strengths at its peak. The Lylat system was interesting. The characters were all unique and brought something to the table. Each planet seemed to have its own history you could discover through each level, and the characters were learning something along with you. Star Fox is a great example of something that is really simple (Dogs vs Monkeys) that is greater than the sum of its parts because it was well done really well and earnestly back in the 90s.

3. It needs fully fledged multiplayer.
I’m baffled that it’s 2024 and there has never been a Star Fox game with a 4 player co-op campaign. That seems like a massive slam dunk. Multiplayer shouldn’t be an after thought, it should be a main focus along with a strong campaign that can be played both in single player and in co-op. Give people dogfights, on the ground action, land masters and let them go wild. This is where they should build off of Assault, but make sure to include a full campaign from the beginning this time.


I genuinely believe if they start here and combine it with some Nintendo magic, Star Fox could be a major IP for them again. But if they want it to be a big deal, they need to treat it like a big deal. A dedicated developer, regular updates and additional content, and tie in media would all be beneficial here. I’m normally all about Nintendo releasing a game and moving on, but Star Fox doesn’t have the good will anymore. Nintendo needs to prove that they care about it and want it to succeed
 
Stilt Village said:
I'm not going to buy that people don't want traditional Star Fox anymore until one that's actually good flops.
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nintendo has to be convinced to make these first. while Miyamoto might still believe in SF, Takahashi might take a fuckload of convincing. a rail shooter that's not on a shoestring budget is a hard ask still, I think
 
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AAA open world narrative driven game with all the bells and whistles. Where it's more about the story and cutscenes than the actual gameplay. And throw in a very cluttered HUD/UI for good measure
 
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I think Star Fox needs a New Super Mario Bros type game where it’s intentionally designed to be a throwback title, while still providing some exciting new locations, and rewarding gameplay.

Star Fox 64 pioneered this core design for the franchise, and yet Nintendo along with whoever is developing have failed to match it for almost 30 years now.
 
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Make it like The Expanse in its sociopolitical turmoil with the Starfox mercernary crew caught in the middle. Everything is a choice and the whole narrative shifts with every one so tons of branching paths. Ship segments, on foot segments, mystery, action, politics, some macguffin that everyone wants for themselves, and the fate of the galaxy is at stake.
 
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Mix Star Fox 2 freedom to explore the galaxy, BOTW and TOTK formula. Classic Star Fox action together and multiple level pathes into planets and crucial locations. Level up system for your ship, partners and Great Fox. Multiple dialog options and decisions which can impact the ending and your relationship with partners and other characters.

Star Fox has tons of potential if they actually try to evolve it's formula but at the same time being able to keep it's roots.
 
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I’m gonna agree with all the people referencing Assault. Assault was on the right track I think.
And for the love of god tell a new story.
 
ILikeFeet said:
furry mass effect
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This, and it needs to look like the old puppets:

Star-Fox-Puppets.png
 
not a rail shooter.

a long rail shooter would be misreaable.


short rail shooters are over way to fast for the price, and in general the replay the same thing over and over way of making playtime logner isnt really liked by gamers now because theres so many options to play.

a space shooter with on rail segments would be good.

but also ground segments.

im thinking like the ground areas can be little areas on different planets like the sky walker saga.

if they want to make a 5 hour rail hso0oter they can price it at 20 bucks cause otherwise its going to flop.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
Take the basic idea of Assault (with modern controls), and give it the content of 64 and you've got a solid game right the hell there.
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They really should have followed that direction, sometimes fans are dumb.

If a series doesn’t change people won’t care for it past the fir at few games.

Look at katamari, everything either copied the first game or copied the second game and then it died.

It needs a reason to exist. Not just “here’s more star fox lmao, shoot stuff for 3 hours then play splatoon”
 
I'm not joking when I say Star Fox GP should've been real. Have both traditional track and space racing, brick back a ton of characters, put a fun CTR-esque story mode into it and have great online. Put a proper F-ZERO collab in as a free update or DLC expansion.
 
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Focus on a fun multiplayer mode that can carry it beyond the fact that the story mode lasts 2 hours at most.
 
The era of the arcade style shooter as a mainstream genre is long over that any possible reinventions aiming for mass appeal will necessitate a huge focus change, to the point that I don’t think Nintendo would gain anything by keeping the branding.

The only thing I want from a new StarFox is just not to control like ass.
 
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a rail shooter that's not a 2 hour remake of star fox SNES for the 4th time. Also probably at a discounted price if nintendo doesn't have anything interesting to show off hardware wise like they did with the SNES/N64
 
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I’ve laid out dream versions of Star Fox before on Fami, but the bare minimum it needs is Star Fox 64 with normal controls and bigger, local and online multiplayer (look to Assault for multiplayer ideas). If you don’t have the basics / essentials down, which they’ve never quite 100% had since, it’s always been somewhat doomed to never quite hit right. I also agree with others, anything they can do to emphasize the characters is also very worthwhile.

I’d be down to see some eshop level games too, but I feel that’s a different question.
 
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If they want a broader audience it'll probably have to adopt RPG/exploration stuff tbh. Rail shooters are more niche.

Ship upgrades... weaponry upgrades. Land recon and combat and exploration and flying stuff in equal proportions unlike adventures.
 
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Star Fox is old news…






It’s time for Star Falco

End8-3.png

I need this ending to be canon because Pigma becomes a Rubik’s Cube for some reason
 
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My idea would be to take a leaf out of StarFox 2 and have a scenario where you are constantly having to defend Corneria from ongoing attacks, where you are managing an expanded StarFox squad and sending them on different missions throughout the Lylat system, and you have to complete a number of these to unlock the next story mission. You could incorporate Roguelite elements and have different enemies spawning at different times that provide your team with different abilities with which you could take on the next boss being sent Corneria's way from Venom. Maybe even a dedicated Roguelite mode could be added in which you undertake 'runs' with your team and have to see how far across Lylat you can make it. I think that would be the best way of keeping it true to its origins while increasing the game's longevity and replayability.
 
Star Fox fans just mainly want a proper followup to Star Fox 64: A great arcade railshooter that combines different modes of play and a fun multiplayer. No weird experiments or radical departures that abandon everything what made that game great in the first place. Overthinking this has led to the bad state of the IP since then.
 
I think every (proper) Star Fox since 64 has had good ideas that dont necessarily break the franchise, just execution has always been a problem.

*Assault the incredible flexibility you have transitioning from foot, to vehicle makes for an incredible multiplayer experience.
*Command's focus on strategy and alternating missions is solid. The idea if mission variants and ranking makes good side content. As well as more vehicles.
*Zero's ever expanding world map and variations on levels expands more on what 64 did in a cool way.

Its just that execution is where this all stumbles and a lot of things get in the way.

This isnt like F-Zero though, there is a pretty clear and IMO mainstream appealung framework for a future Star Fox that lets it stand out next to Splatoon, mainly in its full on flight arena gameplay.
 
I want to say that it just needs to lean into its furriness even more (like, seeing—and controlling—these characters more than just from inside a cockpit) and us furries will eat it up…but then I know how terrible furries are at actually supporting furry games; take Fuga: Melodies of Steel, for example.
 
Tye said:
I want to say that it just needs to lean into its furriness even more (like, seeing—and controlling—these characters more than just from inside a cockpit) and us furries will eat it up…but then I know how terrible furries are at actually supporting furry games; take Fuga: Melodies of Steel, for example.
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While we're at it, let's just have moments in-between missions of exploring the Great Fox and the characters just chattering. Like the ship HUB in Ratchet and Clank 3.

It's actually pretty crazy, we see the Great Fox regularly, but we don't actually know what the inside of the ship is like outside the control deck and the ship bay.
 
Since they're apparently never making an on-rails shooter again:
  • Light on story, but with an obscene amount of voiced interactions
  • Hub base/ship for in between missions downtime/customization/whathaveyou
  • Route-based, various missions per chapter
  • Multiple controllable pilots (>12), with meaningfully different ships/grounded combat
  • Custom 4 member squads per mission, all controllable, permadeath
  • Make it fast and hard as hell
Basically, throw older games into a blender, with a pinch of Fire Emblem: Three Hopes into the mix.
 
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