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News The Legend of Zelda Echoes of Wisdom Announced for Switch, Releases September 26 (Playable Zelda)

It would be really cool if, for certain echoes, maybe at a higher price, Zelda could turn in to the echo instead of having it fight along side. It would be a hell to create control schemes for but it would also allow for so many playstyles and forms of combat, almost anyone could find something they're comfortable with that they find fun.
 
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I just hope that complicated/creative/varied uses of echoes are needed. I have very little intrinsic motivation when it comes to these things (hence ToTK being a real step down from BotW for me, building a crazy flying contraption is completely uninteresting to me if I can just glide over with a few stamina potions anyway). If there's a simple solution that works 90% of the time, choosing a more creative way does nothing for me. I need extrinsic motivation, i.e. get creative or you won't solve the puzzle/beat the enemy.
It looks like there is way less friction here because creativity isn't tied to spending a lot of time building stuff. You just plop out some echoes, less fussy and easier to experiment.
 
yeah the biggest boon of this new system seems to be how fast and immediate it is. You just choose an echo and summon it and it's instantly working, no activation or building needed.
 
It looks like there is way less friction here because creativity isn't tied to spending a lot of time building stuff. You just plop out some echoes, less fussy and easier to experiment.
I hope so. There were probably two circumstances where I might actually have needed to create something creative/complicated in ToTK as I was finding something tricky: beating Lynels and Ganondorf. And those are the two times you can't use Zonai devices.

I just don't get that design philosophy. Provide creative tools that can't be used when you might need to be creative, but can be used when incredibly simple solutions work just as well 🤷‍♂️
 
I think this game is taking place somewhere between ALttP, LA, OoS, OoA and ALBW. I think it may even be the same Link featured in the latter games. One of the big giveaways is when Link jump’s over Ganon’s Trident attack, which means he must have Roc’s Feather. We’ve never seen that item used outside of LA, OoS, and OoA. And he doesn’t have it in ALBW either.

I know that may be a bit of a grasp here, but it’s usage of the same map and the version of Ganon we’re seeing here certainly places it on the Fallen Timeline. So currently, I’d say we’re looking at:

ALttP->LA->OoS->OoA->EoW->ALBW

Also, it’s notable that ALBW was absent of of the races seen in all of the games prior to ALBW as well as the games that followed, being LoZ and AoL. Those races being Koroks, Kokiri, Goron, Gerudo, Sheikah, Sea Zora, and Rito. And we’ve seen several of those races already just in this trailer alone: River Zora, Zora, and Gerudo.

So I’m feeling pretty confident of my current placement on the timeline down the game here.

I know all of this could be very, very wrong, but I’m loving theorizing as I always do for a new Zelda game.
FSA also had an ALTTP-esque map, Ganon, and the Roc's Feather, and the Gerudo were still alive. So, it could also be CT.
 
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Dunno if anyone else has talked about it but - companions are back!

Hopefully, Tri will be an adorable fella.
 
I am already exhausted by the discourse about this game I’m seeing (i should get off twitter)

Zelda is the holder of the triforce of WISDOM. She will always think outside the box. It is not sexist for her to not be a stand in for link. A gender swap would be honestly more offensive.
 
Its not super wide spread but there is DIFFIDENTLY people complaining that "why cant Zelda us a sword, thats Sexist!!"

And if she did use a sword, people would complain it's not really playing as Zelda, it's just a Link reskin. You can't please everyone!
 
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I think this game is taking place somewhere between ALttP, LA, OoS, OoA and ALBW. I think it may even be the same Link featured in the latter games. One of the big giveaways is when Link jump’s over Ganon’s Trident attack, which means he must have Roc’s Feather. We’ve never seen that item used outside of LA, OoS, and OoA. And he doesn’t have it in ALBW either.

I know that may be a bit of a grasp here, but it’s usage of the same map and the version of Ganon we’re seeing here certainly places it on the Fallen Timeline. So currently, I’d say we’re looking at:

ALttP->LA->OoS->OoA->EoW->ALBW

Also, it’s notable that ALBW was absent of of the races seen in all of the games prior to ALBW as well as the games that followed, being LoZ and AoL. Those races being Koroks, Kokiri, Goron, Gerudo, Sheikah, Sea Zora, and Rito. And we’ve seen several of those races already just in this trailer alone: River Zora, Zora, and Gerudo.

So I’m feeling pretty confident of my current placement on the timeline down the game here.

I know all of this could be very, very wrong, but I’m loving theorizing as I always do for a new Zelda game.
It seems that Zelda can also jump in this game without Roc’s Feather, so I’m not sure that really points towards it being ALttP/LA or OoS/OoA Link (which are two different Links). Also, Roc’s Feather is in FSA as well. But yeah, if this game were to be set in the Downfall Timeline, it would almost certainly have to take place before ALBW, likely close to OoS/OoA, since, as you point out, ALBW makes a point to show that the races of Hyrule have diminished by that point—particularly notable with Rosso seemingly being a Hylian of Goron descent, Impa potentially being Sheikah but looking much closer to a Hylian if so, and the complete lack of Gerudo, sea Zora, or other races that they could have featured as well.

But then the Downfall Timeline doesn’t feature Gerudo (outside of Kotake and Koume—somehow revived??—in OoS/OoA) or prominent Sheikah (there are some examples of characters that are likely of Sheikah descent, but nothing like the Sheikah we’re seeing in EoW which are more like the Sheikah as seen in BotW/TotK) at all, and while this doesn’t necessarily prove that EoW can’t take place on the Downfall Timeline (those races could still exist and just aren’t shown in games…but you’d think they would have taken the opportunity to use them in ALBW if that was supposed to be the case), it may suggest a different timeline placement.

The Child Timeline still has Gerudo even at the currently known end of it in FSA (unlike the Adult and Downfall Timelines), so EoW could potentially go there, too. FSA is also very much based on ALttP, too, after all. But I think another option is more likely—the Hylia Timeline, AKA the proposed fourth timeline on which BotW/TotK must take place (as they can’t take place on the other timelines since OoT is replaced with TotK’s Imprisoning War in that timeline) which, I believe, branches from the time travel in SS where Ghirahim revives Demise in the past after he was eradicated by the Triforce in the present. In this timeline, I think EoW may be the equivalent of ALttP, as TotK’s Imprisoning War is the equivalent of OoT.

This would be a timeline where Demise was defeated early, Hylia never had to become mortal and would still be worshiped as a goddess, and as such the history of the thousands of years between the Era of the Goddess Hylia and the Era of Sky would likely play out very differently. This would explain a lot, like Hylia’s absence in the other timelines, why Sheikah are much more prominent in this timeline compared to the others where they’re said to live in the shadows and are rarely seen (if they even exist anymore at all towards the end of the timelines), and, of course, how BotW/TotK exist in a timeline where OoT as we know it doesn’t happen, among other things.

If the Hylia Timeline is true, then EoW likely takes place on this timeline not only due to the presence of Gerudo and BotW/TotK-like Sheikah, but also because we see a Goddess Statue in the trailer, meaning Hylia is likely still worshiped as a goddess in this timeline! Plus the Zonai-like outfit and weapons that Link has may also suggest some connection to the BotW/TotK timeline, too. This timeline would also be a nearly completely blank slate for the developers to mess around with, and they’ve previously voiced a desire for something of the sort so their gameplay ideas aren’t constrained by the existing timelines, so it would make a lot of sense for this game to be taking place in a newly established timeline for development reasons, too!

I will say that one thing that could point towards your idea of EoW potentially being on the Downfall Timeline and featuring the same Link as OoS/OoA is Zelda’s design, as it appears to be most closely match that of OoS/OoA’s Zelda, however it’s not a perfect match and seems to combine elements from a number of different Zelda incarnations.

I have long loved the discussions around the timeline, but I sincerely think that the creative managers of the series have absolutely nothing to do with it in reality. We must take each episode as the variation of the same story or all of the world of a common narrative universe.
Nintendo literally released multiple books detailing the chronology of these games, and they continue to stick to that on their official Zelda website—are you suggesting that’s all some big made up lie that they continue to push for some reason? And we know that the creative managers are absolutely involved with the timeline—Aonuma has said, even before the Hyrule Historia was released and the timeline was officially disclosed in full, that a master timeline document existed and only he, Miyamoto, and the game director have access to it. Plus you don’t make games like The Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, etc. without considering the timeline of the series at all.
 
I am already exhausted by the discourse about this game I’m seeing (i should get off twitter)

Zelda is the holder of the triforce of WISDOM. She will always think outside the box. It is not sexist for her to not be a stand in for link. A gender swap would be honestly more offensive.

I, for one, am thrilled that she's allowed to have a completely different gameplay style that fits her character like a hand in the glove. And to think that a magic rod isn't as cool/fun as a sword is doing a massive disservice to magic rods.

That's honestly pretty powerful, to allow her to have the autonomy enough to forge her own path in the game and in the gameplay, and become distinct, unique and her own person. How that is 'sexist' is beyond me.
 
Hey, can we disagree with people who are disappointed without misrepresenting them?

It's possible to think this game looks cool and fun; and yet also be disappointed that Zelda is playable in this experimental puzzleesque game with the cute art style but not in the more traditional ones.

It's not really fair to say "they're only pretending to be disappointed to troll and because they love being upset online". Like it's okay for people to have their own complicated emotional reaction to stuff that isnt the consensus emotion.
 
Exploring unobstructed in a relatively small, flat landscape doesn't sound that fun to me.
Although I understand your worry, I feel like the game is much more than the BOTW-ification of 2D Zelda. More like a proper turnaround of the coventions of 2D Zelda. There are areas where the Echo spending is limited. Maaaybe there could be a sort of linear progression instead of overly open.

But we'll see, we've only seen a reveal trailer. I feel like this game could either get a dedicated short Direct, or a 10-15 video like TOTK did.

I've expressed my hesitancy about this game in this thread already.

But the more I think about it the more hyped I am.

We've seen two types of Zora, Gerudo, Sheikah, Deku, and Hylians in the trailer. Bet there could be Gorons and Rito too. Give us a missing sage/champion/important NPC from each tribe to rescue from the rifts and that could be 7 or 8 dungeons and stories right there.

And what could end up being on the other dpad buttons?
As long as we don't get the same cutscene after rescuing every Sage/Champion... xD



Play Asia just went up. We might see pre-orders go up stateside later today.

That box is gorgeous!

So far summoning caps at 1 ReDead and a bed.
lol @ one ReDead and a bed. Sounds like a horrible meme xD

You don't need more. The ReDead to fight and destroy enemy monsters, and the bed to chill on and wait until the ReDead is done!
Moments like these make me wish I had an iPad and an Apple Pencil. This sounds like a viral meme waiting to be made xD

Hey, can we disagree with people who are disappointed without misrepresenting them?

It's possible to think this game looks cool and fun; and yet also be disappointed that Zelda is playable in this experimental puzzleesque game with the cute art style but not in the more traditional ones.

It's not really fair to say "they're only pretending to be disappointed to troll and because they love being upset online". Like it's okay for people to have their own complicated emotional reaction to stuff that isnt the consensus emotion.
Although I like what we're getting, I can understand their disappointment. Yes, Zelda isn't a swordfighter, but we could certainly get one that is. Especially the Zelda from Hyrule Warriors, which wields a rapier with Light power abilities.
 
Its not super wide spread but there is DIFFIDENTLY people complaining that "why cant Zelda us a sword, thats Sexist!!"
I would not worry to much about them. They are 1) a very small minority and 2) trying to use sexism as an excuse because they just want to have a Zelda game that they consider "traditional"

There is always a faction of people who will try to use stuff like that to make their point stronger. They don't actually give one flying fuck about "sexism" they just want the game to be made the way they think it should be made. See: people who try to frame a lack of an easy mode in From games as an "accessibility issue". They don't care about people who need accessibility options in games they are just mad that the games are too hard for them.
 
I see some people criticizing Nintendo for deciding Zelda can’t have a sword, but to me, it seems pretty clear it happened the other way around? Like, I’m so sure the developers had the idea for the Echos mechanic first, and then decided the change in play style would fit a change of protagonist (to Zelda). I don’t think the reason for this game existing is purely just for a playable Zelda.
I mean if they wanted a hero that swings a sword, they might as well use Link.

Changing up the protagonist is pointless without a corresponding change in gameplay mechanics. Then it's just a skin.

It also fits with the triforce of courage vs wisdom motive.
 
This looked dope as hell. I’m in Day 1 unless I decide to ask for it as a birthday gift (in which case I’ll be in Day 3).
 
The thing I’m most looking forward to right now is seeing what other items / mechanics they’re giving Zelda. The trailer only shows the Wand mapped to one of the four item slots. What else do they have up their sleeves?
 
Its not super wide spread but there is DIFFIDENTLY people complaining that "why cant Zelda us a sword, thats Sexist!!"
Oh no, can some people not always be offended by everything just for the sake of it? I'm sure there are much more really important things in everyday life where the course has to be redetermined to successfully expose and fight sexism. Ah well, I guess I won't live to see that day...

Back to topic, I believe this will be a damn cool game with a clever gameplay approach! I wonder if there will be some nifty echo - workarounds that the devs themselves didn't intend. That would lead to a nice variety of experiencing the world and take on challenges!
 
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wasn't personally feeling this one. I thought links awakening was alright but to see another in that style is meh.
That's my grip with it. Not because I dislike LA's artstyle, but because I think it should've been used for just that game.

But I'm all up for reusing assets if that means we get more games in a shorter period of time :D
 
I'd appreciate it if people could drop the meta commentary about what people on other message boards think. It doesn't lead anywhere productive.
 
Zelda games reusing the same art style, particularly on the same system, is really, really common to the point of being the norm, so I'm not sure why this one would be expected to change it up.

I did see some people, back when LA was first shown, only willing accept this style because the game's set
in a dream
so it sort of made sense in their head I guess, so maybe that's part of the issue for some?

I dunno, just seems normal that games in the same series on the same system share a style tbh.
 
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The thing I’m most looking forward to right now is seeing what other items / mechanics they’re giving Zelda. The trailer only shows the Wand mapped to one of the four item slots. What else do they have up their sleeves?
Could be shortcuts maybe?
 
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wasn't personally feeling this one. I thought links awakening was alright but to see another in that style is meh.
Agreed. I think it worked for Link's Awakening given that it was trying to make something more stylish out of a GameBoy remake, but here it just comes across as cheap. I would have preferred a style more in line with A Link Between Worlds, or even a return to pixel art.
 
Nintendo literally released multiple books detailing the chronology of these games, and they continue to stick to that on their official Zelda website—are you suggesting that’s all some big made up lie that they continue to push for some reason? And we know that the creative managers are absolutely involved with the timeline—Aonuma has said, even before the Hyrule Historia was released and the timeline was officially disclosed in full, that a master timeline document existed and only he, Miyamoto, and the game director have access to it. Plus you don’t make games like The Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, etc. without considering the timeline of the series at all.
Having myself been a very enthusiastic aficionado of timeline conversations for a very long time, I understand that it's perhaps a bit of a difficult discussion to have. But I'd say there's no clearer answer than the one provided by Breath Of The Wild, which mixes in plenty of easter eggs but basically says quite openly "fuck it" to these timeline questions.
 
I hope to see through EoW that Eiji Aonuma has seriously reflected on TOTK's lack of motivation to guide and empower players to more creatively utilize the mechanics of the thing through map design and puzzles, and thus will focus on addressing this shortcoming in future Zelda entries, and I hope that they will conceptually break through at the level of mechanic design on the underlying notion of the interaction of all things.
 
I hope to see through EoW that Eiji Aonuma has seriously reflected on TOTK's lack of motivation to guide and empower players to more creatively utilize the mechanics of the thing through map design and puzzles, and thus will focus on addressing this shortcoming in future Zelda entries, and I hope that they will conceptually break through at the level of mechanic design on the underlying notion of the interaction of all things.
There's almost no chance any feedback from TotK can be incorporated into EoW, EoW would have been too deep into development to make any significant changes to its core design or structure when TotK released and people finished it and gave feedback in May/June/July 2023. Of course when a game has a 96 metacritic and sells over 20 million copies in a year, if they could adjust they'd double down on what TotK did, not pivot away from it.
 
Of course when a game has a 96 metacritic and sells over 20 million copies in a year, if they could adjust they'd double down on what TotK did, not pivot away from it.
That would be sad, and in my opinion totk's lack of design to drive players to utilize game mechanics is very lazy and leaves the entire game experience loop incomplete and fragmented.

A score of 96 doesn't mean anything, the legacy of negative issues with totk is the point they should focus on in the next installment
 
honestly kinda of astounding how much more popular the Zelda franchise got during the Switch era where a 2D zelda game with a cutesy art style and a larger focus on puzzle-solving has gotten more attention then the revival of a previous thought Dead Mario spin-off and the first gameplay of a game 7 years in the making
 
That would be sad, and in my opinion totk's lack of design to drive players to utilize game mechanics is very lazy and leaves the entire game experience loop incomplete and fragmented.

A score of 96 doesn't mean anything, the legacy of negative issues with totk is the point they should focus on in the next installment
That's your opinion though. Not a consensus
 
honestly kinda of astounding how much more popular the Zelda franchise got during the Switch era where a 2D zelda game with a cutesy art style and a larger focus on puzzle-solving has gotten more attention then the revival of a previous thought Dead Mario spin-off and the first gameplay of a game 7 years in the making
The new Zeldas sold tens of millions
The new Animal Crossing sold tens of millions.

Princess Zelda + cute + place objects = $$$$$$
 
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I mean you're more than welcome to not find TotK appealing or enjoyable, but you can't dismiss universal critical acclaim and mass popularity as if it's meaningless or as if the developers are somehow beholden to you personally.
My problem is that if the Legend of Zelda series remains an action-adventure game, this unchecked sandbox tendency is completely the wrong direction, and I'm not the only one to bring up this point about TOTK's lack of driving the player's creativity at the level design level.
 
Anyone else... not the biggest fan of the title?

There was a fan game/fan concept of a Zelda game set in a sort of Fallout-esque world that looked pretty cool, but "Echoes of the Future" (which it was called) sounded like the exact kind of tacky fan titles that people make fun of. So it's weird to see an official title that also has "Echoes" in it.

It reminds me of when "Kingdom Gone" was rumoured as a title for BotW, and I severely disliked that title, only for TotK to also have "Kingdom" in it.
 
Anyone else... not the biggest fan of the title?

There was a fan game/fan concept of a Zelda game set in a sort of Fallout-esque world that looked pretty cool, but "Echoes of the Future" (which it was called) sounded like the exact kind of tacky fan titles that people make fun of. So it's weird to see an official title that also has "Echoes" in it.

It reminds me of when "Kingdom Gone" was rumoured as a title for BotW, and I severely disliked that title, only for TotK to also have "Kingdom" in it.
I'm OK with it, though I think my biggest issue is that shortening it to 'Echoes' makes me think of both Metroid Prime 2 and Fire Emblem Echoes. I loved both those games, though, so maybe Nintendo Echoes games are just going to be very good for me personally?
 
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