Discussion Square Enix confirms that Foamstars contains some AI generated art

[AK World]

Square Enix confirms Foamstars contains some AI generated art | VGC

The game’s development team used Midjourney to create in-game…

www.videogameschronicle.com

The Final Fantasy publisher’s president recently said in a New Year’s Letter that it intended to be “aggressive in applying” AI in its future game development.

Square Enix has previously used AI for things like improving facial animation and camera angles in Final Fantasy 7 Remake.

At a recent press event, VGC asked Foamstars producer Kosuke Okatani if AI was used for any elements of the game, and he confirmed it had.

Okatani claimed that, while the vast majority of the game was built by hand, it had used Midjourney – a popular generative AI tool that transforms text prompts into visual art – to create a small number of art for in-game icons.

The assets in question are said to be related to in-game album covers for the game’s music tracks.

“All of the core elements in Foamstars – the core gameplay, and the things that make the game enjoyable – those are all made by hand,” he clarified. “However, we did want to experiment with AI as well.

“In terms of the content in the game, this makes up about 0.01% or even less, but we have dabbled in it by creating these icons in the game.”

Square Enix later clarified in a statement provided to VGC: “AI was used in the creation of the in-game album covers for the music featured in the FOAMSTARS’ soundtrack. As developers, we’re always looking at new technologies to see how they can assist with game development.

“In this instance, we experimented with Midjourney using simple prompts to produce abstract images. We loved what was created and used them as the final album covers players will see in the game. Everything else was created entirely by our development team.”

Square Enix confirmed that they used Midjourney to generate a few of the assets for Foamstars.

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

Yikes.

 

[em]

In-game posters, book covers, and album art is about the most innocuous use of AI generated art that comes to mind (beyond not using it at all).

 

[PixelKnight]

It’ll be interesting to see how all the test cases against Midjourney and co for unlicensed art scraping during their research phase before monetising the results resolve.

AI art tools Stable Diffusion and Midjourney targeted with copyright lawsuit

AI art gets its first major copyright lawsuit

www.theverge.com

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

In terms of the content in the game, this makes up about 0.01% or even less

You have to wonder, if it's that little, why even bother? Like, what is this supposed to achieve or prove? What is the point? Moreover, do they expect people to just believe that it's only limited to those few pieces? Baffling move.

 

[totofogo]

If they want to experiment with AI, ok.

It does however mean that I will experiment with not playing their game!

 

[Metroid]

You have to wonder, if it's that little, why even bother? Like, what is this supposed to achieve or prove? What is the point? Moreover, do they expect people to just believe that it's only limited to those few pieces? Baffling move.

They're testing their limits. If they can get away with this, next time it'll be 0.1%. Then they get away with that and up it to 1% and then more and more each time, until it's much more significant but at that point people will be acclimated.

 

[Vookatos]

You have to wonder, if it's that little, why even bother? Like, what is this supposed to achieve or prove? What is the point? Moreover, do they expect people to just believe that it's only limited to those few pieces? Baffling move.

Likely to get you to get used to it before moving onto larger chunks of games such as voice acting for non-important NPCs.
edit: beaten by metroid

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

They're testing their limits. If they can get away with this, next time it'll be 0.1%. Then they get away with that and up it to 1% and then more and more each time, until it's much more significant but at that point people will be acclimated.

Likely to get you to get used to it before moving onto larger chunks of games such as voice acting for non-important NPCs.
edit: beaten by metroid

If this is really what they hope to do I hope it blows up in their faces.

 

[Sheldon]

They're testing their limits. If they can get away with this, next time it'll be 0.1%. Then they get away with that and up it to 1% and then more and more each time, until it's much more significant but at that point people will be acclimated.

To me it reads more like corporate mandated experimentation with AI art generation and the devs found the least objectionable way to humour them. Doesn't mean corporate won't push for more, but as of now the ones actually using the tools aren't enthusiastically on board.

 

[oomoepoo]

All this tells me is that you don't have faith in the game and are cheapstakes. Can't even pay artists to do some offbrand album covers.

 

[Metroid]

To me it reads more like corporate mandated experimentation with AI art generation and the devs found the least objectionable way to humour them. Doesn't mean corporate won't push for more, but as of now the ones actually using the tools aren't enthusiastically on board.

That's what I mean by "they." Doesn't really matter how the individual devs feel as long as there's someone from corporate there calling these types of shots, unofrtunately.

 

[lexony]

Not saying that I like Midjourrney and I see the Moral issues connected with them, but the usecases they are describing makes a lot of sense for generative art. Companies like Square Enix should fill their databases with art and images made by them to use in games for certain things like background art, repetitive stuff etc.

 

[PixelKnight]

Not saying that I like Midjourrney and I see the Moral issues connected with them, but the usecases they are describing makes a lot of sense for generative art. Companies like Square Enix should fill their databases with art and images made by them to use in games for certain things like background art, repetitive stuff etc.

Thing is there’s already AI image generation tools based on art from licensed libraries. They just decided to use the big, cheap ones that scraped it all for free under ‘research’ and then monetised it. Copyright isn’t just a moral issue, the rights of artists are recognised in common law, hence these test cases against Midjourney and co.

 

[Sheldon]

That's what I mean by "they." Doesn't really matter how the individual devs feel as long as there's someone from corporate there calling these types of shots, unofrtunately.

I should clarify: What I mean is that only starting with 0,1% then slowly boiling the frog in fractions at a time was probably not some devious plan. If it was up to Square-Enix leadership, they'd have started at 10% right away, or 5% or at least a full on percent. Who's really testing the limits here is the devs in seeing how long they can delay the corporate push to have AI take over the the work of artists on pay-roll.

 

[meatbag]

Disheartening news. I'm surprised they even admitted to it, frankly. Midjourney is going through legal trouble now, I believe, and that might cause problems fo Foamstars, too.

Thing is there’s already AI image generation tools based on art from licensed libraries. They just decided to use the big, cheap ones that scraped it all for free.

Yep, exactly. Using Midjourney is not the way to do it.

 

[Embers]

Not saying that I like Midjourrney and I see the Moral issues connected with them, but the usecases they are describing makes a lot of sense for generative art. Companies like Square Enix should fill their databases with art and images made by them to use in games for certain things like background art, repetitive stuff etc.

Counterpoint: art in a game should be specific to that game. Splatoon also has in-game "album art" (you can see most of it here), as does Animal Crossing, and it was all created by humans with an understanding of the setting they were trying to convey through small incidental touches such as this.

If you have a conception in your mind of in-world art as filler, just sludge that exists to take up space, then Midjourney is fine I guess. It can't do words at all, so the posters and flyers in your environments will look like nothing and slide right off the eye. Or you could pay a person and get wonderful things like MINMO, the signage in Portal and Powerwash Simulator, and so forth.

 

[Mekanos]

Closed servers by the end of the calendar year

 

[ziggyrivers]

In-game posters, book covers, and album art is about the most innocuous use of AI generated art that comes to mind (beyond not using it at all).

And lip syncing, like someone mentioned

 

[kasparov77]

(true) indies made by humane devs are gaming's only salvation.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

Of all the image generators, why Midjourney? I get there's no putting the genie back in the bottle, but there are "licensed" AI generators.

I know the answer is money. Still doesn't make me happy.

 

[chocolate_supra]

In-game posters, book covers, and album art is about the most innocuous use of AI generated art that comes to mind (beyond not using it at all).

Might seem innocuous, but without AI those sorts of things woulda otherwise been made by graphic designers, like me. So uh ..

Not saying I woulda ever been in the running to design assets for Square because I'm a nobody, but AI shit looks to try and guarantee I and people like me will continue to be nobodies.

 

[Kingpin Rogers]

Cynical of me but I doubt the majority of people will care about this or any other use of ai in games in the future. I see this becoming more and more common as time goes on.

 

[Djehuty]

We will not be playing.

 

[Hocot8]

Cynical of me but I doubt the majority of people will care about this or any other use of ai in games in the future. I see this becoming more and more common as time goes on.

I don't know if that's being cynical or understanding humans as a species. This should be treated like nfts but psychology it's vastly different. Collectively we can admit both are wrong but one(nfts) impacts us or tries to impact us financially. The other doesn't but funnily enough it is the worst of the two.

 

[Brofield]

Using "some" AI art is using AI art. It garnered nothing more than apathy from me at announcement but I will actively discourage people away from playing this game as a result.

 

[PixelKnight]

Cynical of me but I doubt the majority of people will care about this or any other use of ai in games in the future. I see this becoming more and more common as time goes on.

I think corporations will care when it turns out that using AI engines that don’t have their ducks in a row on copyright gets expensive or risky enough that it makes more sense to either make art, license art or use engines that have done so.

 

[Beanstar40]

It’s an interesting position, as an orginazation, how do you balance keeping jobs from becoming redundant while embracing technology that can improve efficiency and decrease costs? The humanitarian in me of course wants to say “get the ai out of here we will always pay and hire real artist!” But if I had a board I had to report to could I maintain that? I don’t think we can fight against the use of ai in game development and other industries, but can new opportunities rise in their wake? I’m not educated enough on the subject, but were factory workers given other Opportunities when most factories became automated.

I hope this hope this wasn’t inflammatory at all. This is a very sensitive subject, understandably so.

 

[Darknut85]

Can we ban Foamsters from Famiboards?

 

[PixelKnight]

It’s an interesting position, as an orginazation, how do you balance keeping jobs from becoming redundant while embracing technology that can improve efficiency and decrease costs? The humanitarian in me of course wants to say “get the ai out of here we will always pay and hire real artist!” But if I had a board I had to report to could I maintain that? I don’t think we can fight against the use of ai in game development and other industries, but can new opportunities rise in their wake? I’m not educated enough on the subject, but were factory workers given other Opportunities when most factories became automated.

I hope this hope this wasn’t inflammatory at all. This is a very sensitive subject, understandably so.

I don’t think it’s much to ask to expect makers of AI engines to license art they want to include in their data set, or to expect media companies to only use the AI engines where this has been done. Of course AI isn’t going anywhere.

 

[BassForever]

Yeah the risks for AI art are

-Do you risk getting sued if the AI art was generated from artwork the AI didn't have legal rights to use

-Can you even copyright your work if too much of it was made with AI

 

[MP!]

companies need to start making their own models
trained on their own art
it's a simple fix

 

[oldpuck]

We - and by we I mean Fami specifically, and the gaming community generally - need to come to grips with AI art. It's coming and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

What we can do is influence what is and is not acceptable uses. I am personally of the opinion that AI models trained on copyrighted works without the consent of the creators, used to then generate works commercialized and protected by copyright - this is unethical, and if the US Courts weren't active technophones, would be illegal too.

In this case, I don't care how small the icons were, is unethical and should be illegal. We need to create enough noise that some form of regulation crops up, because this will keep happening until it does and no amount of fan pushback to individual publishers is sufficient.

 

[bayonetta]

fuck this shit

 

[chocolate_supra]

I am personally of the opinion that AI models trained on copyrighted works without the consent of the creators, used to then generate works commercialized and protected by copyright - this is unethical, and if the US Courts weren't active technophones, would be illegal too.

If the US courts weren't active technophobes they'd support it even harder, because it gives large corporations and startup investors a tool with which they can maximize products and profits at the expense of the working class, which seems to be exactly what the US wants now.

 

[oldpuck]

If the US courts weren't active technophobes they'd support it even harder, because it gives large corporations and startup investors a tool with which they can maximize products and profits at the expense of the working class, which seems to be exactly what the US wants now.

You are correct sigh

 

[Serif]

Damn, now it really won't capture the western audience that Splatoon failed to do

 

[Barely Able]

I will now make sure not to claim this game on PS plus then. I can see using AI for up scaling old games or backend system calculations (unless these scrape and steal. Honestly not sure how that all works) but there is really no reason to do this other than to just be cheap.

 

[Barely Able]

If the US courts weren't active technophobes they'd support it even harder, because it gives large corporations and startup investors a tool with which they can maximize products and profits at the expense of the working class, which seems to be exactly what the US wants now.

But AI might actually make something that’s not conservative friendly, so maybe they will be against it…

 

[chocolate_supra]

Damn, now it really won't capture the western audience that Splatoon failed to do

Might gain some traction on twitter now though

But AI might actually make something that’s not conservative friendly, so maybe they will be against it…

Omg like Elon's AI chatbot

 

[lexony]

Counterpoint: art in a game should be specific to that game. Splatoon also has in-game "album art" (you can see most of it here), as does Animal Crossing, and it was all created by humans with an understanding of the setting they were trying to convey through small incidental touches such as this.

If you have a conception in your mind of in-world art as filler, just sludge that exists to take up space, then Midjourney is fine I guess. It can't do words at all, so the posters and flyers in your environments will look like nothing and slide right off the eye. Or you could pay a person and get wonderful things like MINMO, the signage in Portal and Powerwash Simulator, and so forth.

I mean Album Art in Splatoon and especially in Animal Crossing is much more an integral parts of the game. Essentially this is a similar question if levels are handmade or generated. Different approaches for different purposes.

 

[YoboD]

Counterpoint: art in a game should be specific to that game. Splatoon also has in-game "album art" (you can see most of it here), as does Animal Crossing, and it was all created by humans with an understanding of the setting they were trying to convey through small incidental touches such as this.

If you have a conception in your mind of in-world art as filler, just sludge that exists to take up space, then Midjourney is fine I guess. It can't do words at all, so the posters and flyers in your environments will look like nothing and slide right off the eye. Or you could pay a person and get wonderful things like MINMO, the signage in Portal and Powerwash Simulator, and so forth.

Says it all better than I could. The world building in Splatoon is great, and it’s little touches like album art done by human artists that all add to it.

For a game trying to have a similar appeal to Splatoon put no effort into world building is a red flag to me.

 

[Samurai Goroh]

Can't wait for the Foamstars NFT collection

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I mean Album Art in Splatoon and especially in Animal Crossing is much more an integral parts of the game. Essentially this is a similar question if levels are handmade or generated. Different approaches for different purposes.

... But foamstars is blatantly trying for the Splatoon audience, which is one of the many reasons this a real bad look. If they're cutting corners like that on this kind of thing, they likely are cutting corners everywhere.

 

[Individualised]

redacted

 

[Irene]

(true) indies made by humane devs are gaming's only salvation.

I keep coming back to this dystopian future I have in my head where every game in the future, no matter the dev team or budget size, is photorealistic, has world-class animations, and are all this huge genre mishmash of immersive sim action RPG's with semi-open world elements and racing and branching narrative paths and multiple endings and five fishing mini games, and every single thing is made by AI, the dev teams are 70% producers and board directors and 30% interns and prompt hitters. The games industry is blossoming like never before and techbros are laughing all the way to five banks at once.

Then comes some puzzle game that some kid threw together in a basement over an afternoon, it gets grabbed by a publisher and then releases, gets 97 on Opencritic and is heavily lauded as a creative milestone of the industry, kickstarting a new revolution of games made by... wait for it... people.

 

[Koren Lesthe]

Totally the "Splatoon killer" I expected.

 

[Sunshinemario]

Honest question, do people really think companies are interested in the ethical uses of this generative stuff?

Conjuring up a dataset, paying licenses, etc . All of that costs money, maybe even more than it would to just pay a real artist.

The software Square used here is definitely not a controlled dataset, and they are known for shady tactics such as keeping a list of artists to scrape from. (Without said artists’ permission)

That’s why I really don’t understand (or agree with) these “we need to regulate it” takes. If it was regulated properly it would be even more of a hassle to implement than just making the art from scratch.

It’s all about making as much money as possible while having to pay as few workers as possible. It’s nothing about “being in with the times”. I think it’s time we let that fantasy scenario go.

 

[thoughthaver]

I keep coming back to this dystopian future I have in my head where every game in the future, no matter the dev team or budget size, is photorealistic, has world-class animations, and are all this huge genre mishmash of immersive sim action RPG's with semi-open world elements and racing and branching narrative paths and multiple endings and five fishing mini games, and every single thing is made by AI, the dev teams are 70% producers and board directors and 30% interns and prompt hitters. The games industry is blossoming like never before and techbros are laughing all the way to five banks at once.

Then comes some puzzle game that some kid threw together in a basement over an afternoon, it gets grabbed by a publisher and then releases, gets 97 on Opencritic and is heavily lauded as a creative milestone of the industry, kickstarting a new revolution of games made by... wait for it... people.

undertale my beloved. no tin can could ai generate burgerpants

but yeah other industries love to throw around MADE BY 100% REAL PEOPLE WITH NO CHEMICALS around. after a while of being exposed to ai generated slop thats gonna be a selling point which is fucking grim

 

[EvilChameleon]

That’s why I really don’t understand (or agree with) these “we need to regulate it” takes. If it was regulated properly it would be even more of a hassle to implement than just making the art from scratch.

Well, yeah. Then they wouldn't implement it, and hire actual humans. That's the point of "we need to regulate it", no?