- Pronouns
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I’m looking forward to getting to this on my FF playthrough. I’m bout halfway through 8, and I’ve got IX, X, X-2, and XII in the backlog. And world
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- Thread starter xghost777
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OP
OP
I picked up the Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition soundtrack tonight on itunes. I didn't know it had gone up the same time as Xenoblade 3's soundtrack until someone told me here on Fami. Very glad to have some version of the Xenoblade 1 soundtrack in some form and the Future Connected songs. When I played the Definitive Edition, I actually defaulted to the original soundtrack immediately because I just could not get over how different, and in my opinion how huge a step down, the version of You Will Know Our Names is in the Definitive Edition. Thankfully I have the original from the Smash 4 promotional soundtrack CDs so I can just swap that one out, but in general I'm kind of looking forward to hearing the rest of the soundtrack and seeing how it compares. I'm still getting started listening, but I really dug both Colony 9 DE themes in particular so far.
Mekanos
Tattletale
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- he/they
Man the battle system in FFX is delightful. Between the ability to freely swap party members and Yuna's summons, I'm gonna have a lot of fun with this. It's a real bummer that some people see turn based battling as outdated because I think FF peaked with it on the last game they did a traditional turn based system.
- Pronouns
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It's hit and miss between the two, although IMO the Definitive Edition soundtrack is mostly much better all around. There are a few tracks that I prefer the original version, though, and unfortunately You Will Know Our Names is one of them (although the DE version is still pretty good). By far the biggest improvement is on the tracks that have really questionable midi-strings in the original, like Fallen Arm and Agniritha.
I like turn-based, but not in ff series, because it's mostly boring "x" button mashing without any thought put into it. If we are talking about typical jrpgs then for me the best implementations are in "shin megami tensei" and in the (now dead) "shadow hearts" series. I also believe that larian games have superior turned based gameplay.
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Honestly this is a disservice to FF and I still find surprising people still believe this. Sure a lot of them (specially the classics) have simpler strategies, but that's different from mashing x to win.
FF1 vanilla punishes you from button mashing, since you are going to target dead enemies and even with that fixed in the later versions, that the magic charges means you have to check when are you going to use them. 2 and 3 literally ask you to try multiple things /change classes to level different stats / challenge different situations, and from that point on they went just more complex (4 giving you party member with different abilities depending on the story, 5 customizing your characters abilities, 6 with each character having it's own ability, 7 with materias abilites, etc). 8 is a statement that you can actually clear the game without levelling if you engage with the systems they provide
Now, a lot of them (if not most) can be brute forced by grindind, but IMO that is what is going to make the game boring and usually reflects the "you just mash attack to win". You can technically do that but is just going to make the experience misserable
I learned that Baldur's Gate 3 will have local coop on PS5, which means I'll definitely be picking it up at some point. My wife is one of my players in my 5e campaign so I think she would enjoy checking it out with me.
If you think FFX has a great battle system, wait until you try FFX-2, still my favorite Final Fantasy battle system they have ever had by a country mile.
No its not. I finished multiple ff games and it was mainly "click click click" as fast as possible to kill trash mobs. During boss fights you have to remeber to heal in-between clicks
I love ffx because of its story, characters, world and music, but gameplay is so mindless clicking. I hope there will be a modern remake.
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Trash mob combat in most Squaresoft games is fairly simplistic and repetitive. I don’t think it was until the late 00’s where they started putting more effort into the encounter compositions, and I think some of that was in response to Atlus’s rise.
That said, there is an appeal to the old school design where you can sort of tune out and get into a nice groove like playing Tetris or Diablo. It’s sorta zen like and why I’ve never agreed with many of the complaints about random encounters.
That said, there is an appeal to the old school design where you can sort of tune out and get into a nice groove like playing Tetris or Diablo. It’s sorta zen like and why I’ve never agreed with many of the complaints about random encounters.
Mekanos
Tattletale
- Pronouns
- he/they
Speaking of early 2000s RPGs this just came in the mail:
I am not sure when I will dive into this (definitely after FFX) but I've only played the first 3 games back in the day so I really want to go through the whole series. Battle Network 2 was a very formative video game for me.
I am not sure when I will dive into this (definitely after FFX) but I've only played the first 3 games back in the day so I really want to go through the whole series. Battle Network 2 was a very formative video game for me.
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Continued to play This Way madness lies because I don't want to leave it in my backlog. I'm just taking all the shakespeare stuff as if it would be an isekai plot and it's working so far. Also I accidentally pushed the skip button during the transformation scenes, which should be a sin when talking about magical girls, and the game knows it
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They must've added a skip feature just to make that jokeContinued to play This Way madness lies because I don't want to leave it in my backlog. I'm just taking all the shakespeare stuff as if it would be an isekai plot and it's working so far. Also I accidentally pushed the skip button during the transformation scenes, which should be a sin when talking about magical girls, and the game knows it
OP
OP
That’s incredible lol. I can’t wait to get to it once I’m done with Reverie. Should enter the final dungeon tonight.Continued to play This Way madness lies because I don't want to leave it in my backlog. I'm just taking all the shakespeare stuff as if it would be an isekai plot and it's working so far. Also I accidentally pushed the skip button during the transformation scenes, which should be a sin when talking about magical girls, and the game knows it
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Here's a question for the thread that might be almost a topic in and of itself, but it's been on my mind lately. Given this is the RPG thread, seems a good place to ask it:
How do you all feel about puzzles in RPGs?
Now, disclaimer: I'm mostly talking about JRPGs here, and I'm going to use the term "puzzle" extremely loosely as a lot of these aren't really puzzles but things like traversal challenges, various dungeon gimmicks, gates and locked areas with backtracking, and so on.
I love puzzles in general, and have always loved puzzles in RPGs. Simple ones, complicated ones, it almost doesn't matter, I just love having something to do in an RPG that's different than "walk down dungeon corridor, fight stuff, grab some loot, repeat". In older RPGs, puzzles were usually basic things like mazes or warp tiles or slide tiles, and so on, but by the SNES and into the PS1 and PS2/Gamecube era it felt like puzzles in RPGs were really commonplace: You had Tales of Symphonia where nearly every single dungeon in the game had a different gimmick with the sorceror's ring acting almost like a Zelda dungeon item, and this continued into Tales of the Abyss. FFX had the cloisters of trials puzzles. Golden Sun 1 and 2, Lufia 2, Wild Arms 1-3, and many, many more games had great puzzles in them.
But for more modern RPGs... it feels like puzzles have really fallen out of favor, and a lot of RPGs have gone more toward the 'combat corridor' approach seen in most of the recent Tales games, FF13/16, and many others. I can think of a lot of reasons why that is, but honestly, it kind of bums me out given that I adore puzzle-heavy RPGs and they're pretty rare these days. Out of more modern RPGs, two that really spring to mind: Persona 5's Palaces have quite a few gimmicks and puzzles, and while they're not always great I really appreciate what they're going for and I mostly loved them. And while it's an action RPG, I have to bring up CrossCode here since it has probably the absolute best and some of the most devious puzzles I've encountered in an RPG in a very long time.
So, does anyone else have any strong feelings about puzzles one way or the other? What are some of your favorites or least favorites?
How do you all feel about puzzles in RPGs?
Now, disclaimer: I'm mostly talking about JRPGs here, and I'm going to use the term "puzzle" extremely loosely as a lot of these aren't really puzzles but things like traversal challenges, various dungeon gimmicks, gates and locked areas with backtracking, and so on.
I love puzzles in general, and have always loved puzzles in RPGs. Simple ones, complicated ones, it almost doesn't matter, I just love having something to do in an RPG that's different than "walk down dungeon corridor, fight stuff, grab some loot, repeat". In older RPGs, puzzles were usually basic things like mazes or warp tiles or slide tiles, and so on, but by the SNES and into the PS1 and PS2/Gamecube era it felt like puzzles in RPGs were really commonplace: You had Tales of Symphonia where nearly every single dungeon in the game had a different gimmick with the sorceror's ring acting almost like a Zelda dungeon item, and this continued into Tales of the Abyss. FFX had the cloisters of trials puzzles. Golden Sun 1 and 2, Lufia 2, Wild Arms 1-3, and many, many more games had great puzzles in them.
But for more modern RPGs... it feels like puzzles have really fallen out of favor, and a lot of RPGs have gone more toward the 'combat corridor' approach seen in most of the recent Tales games, FF13/16, and many others. I can think of a lot of reasons why that is, but honestly, it kind of bums me out given that I adore puzzle-heavy RPGs and they're pretty rare these days. Out of more modern RPGs, two that really spring to mind: Persona 5's Palaces have quite a few gimmicks and puzzles, and while they're not always great I really appreciate what they're going for and I mostly loved them. And while it's an action RPG, I have to bring up CrossCode here since it has probably the absolute best and some of the most devious puzzles I've encountered in an RPG in a very long time.
So, does anyone else have any strong feelings about puzzles one way or the other? What are some of your favorites or least favorites?
rickyson33
Paratroopa
I don't want anything too involved in my RPGs as far as puzzles go but having some simple stuff like the sorcerer's ring thing you mentioned or some light platforming to find secrets can go a long way to making dungeons not just feel like a set of rooms even if they are
basically I want some of that stuff but I also don't want it to be involved enough that it becomes too much of a focus
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They must've added a skip feature just to make that joke
They also respect the "girl running late with a slice of toast" in the loading screen. They know
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Funny you mention this because just as I was playing this way madness lie this appears lol
Overall I think they are ok as long as they don't stop you on your tracks or at least the games takes measures so you can do them without pressure. For example WA3 has a lot of awesome puzzles with some of them being optional (the millenium puzzles mostly) and the ones in dungeons giving you the chance to do them by lowering or even stopping enemy encounters.
OP
OP
I enjoy puzzles in RPGs to break up the action. I only get annoyed with them if all the game offers are the click / collect / push the thing stuff especially when they are only like two steps deep (don’t tease me with rotating bridges for example if there isn’t anything to think about). Throw in a few thoughtful ones like traversal, disabling abilities, and problems to solve and it’s all good even if the basic stuff is prominent.
I just played Golden Sun recently and one thing I dug there was that for the more involved stuff I appreciated that it separated its combat rooms from its puzzle rooms (or if it did have both, the encounter rate noticeably dipped). For a game with random encounters especially, I felt this was a good idea I’m surprised I haven’t seen too often.
I’m trying to think of great modern RPG puzzles and I’d agree they’ve definitely taken a hit lately. CrossCode I agree stands proudly at the top. So much variety and great difficulty too. One surprising one was definitely Xenoblade 3 and its DLC and having very light Metroidvania elements and also complex shortcut unlocks to fully navigate some of the areas. I’ll add on here if I think of others. For classics, Mario RPG is one of my all time favs especially in the sunken pirate ship puzzle rooms.
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Mario RPG is a good shout with the ship puzzles, definitely. And I agree that puzzles and traversal challenges really are worst when there are random encounters hanging over you - that really spoils the experience.
Personally, I like puzzles that require at least a little bit of thought and aren’t completely brain-dead. They can still be fairly simple and I’ll enjoy them, especially when games work in good loot and equipment as rewards for doing optional ones. But I also love the complex ones, and I agree about puzzle rooms - again, CrossCode shines here in basically having “puzzle rooms” and “combat rooms” be mostly separate in dungeons, but it also has a lot of traversal puzzles out in the overworld, too.
I’ve heard Baten Kaitos has some good puzzles and fun stuff so I’m eager to check those out when they drop next month, I know very little about them overall.
Mekanos
Tattletale
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I think they're good to break up the monotony of dungeon crawling, but they can be annoying if they pop up too often and are obtuse. I vastly prefer dungeons in Persona 5 to 3/4 and the presence of puzzles or other non-combat challenges to navigate is a reason why, but some can get a bit long in the tooth.
PixelKnight
Observing the process
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I love them, particularly in dungeon crawls where you’re also filling in the maze and marking warp/trap tiles and so it feels like you’re gradually making constant progress. It’s all just navigation, another way of having a dead end that you mark up and don’t take again really.
More recently, one I really enjoyed in a full on JRPG was a later dungeon in SMTV, with lots of wind-based puzzles, a bit like Zelda. For such things that require experimentation rather than exploration, I only really enjoy it if it isn’t random battles, as random battles just aren’t fun if you’re trying to get somewhere to try something you just failed against. I saw some players really didn’t like that dungeon but I enjoyed it as it broke up the game, which is mostly otherwise combat and exploration outside. I’m not sure I’d have wanted the whole game to be like that though.
Skyrim has some good ones that have you looking through documents and journals for the answers but I didn’t like the ‘match the 3 symbols’ ones just as they are so simple and repetitive.
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Touya
Moogle Coffee
It really is! No spoilers, but it keeps growing the whole way through. Even when you've reached the "end," there's a postgame twist to how the systems work.
I do want to see FF tackle these command battles again, it did a wonderful job of making systems that were both broadly accessible and interesting to play around with. When I go back to older RPGs, it's striking to me how bleeding-edge V through X all were compared to their contemporaries.
Also echoing this:
X-2's battles feel so energetic, it approaches that "just one more" feeling of wanting to fill out each ability set. Even though I'm not really in love with how all X-2's parts fit together, I keep coming back for the battle system. The job design Square had going here with the Songstress and Samurai was stellar, tricks like setting up Auto-Slow on your Songstress to make her dances last longer felt so clever.
I see this take all the time, but it's rather counterfactual. In FFX alone there's like ten different bosses players go running to GameFAQs for, because you can't clear them without ailment, buff/debuff, and/or speed manipulation. Like mashing through the Sanctuary Keeper falls apart as soon as it fires off Photon Wings.
When I look at the other games, IX for example, it's full of effects that encourage you to low-level it like Tent-chucking, Limit Glove + Auto-Life, and Soul Blade while the shifting party comp across a run prevents relying on a single strategy. Even in normal runs, various bosses turn off your healing with Silence/Zombie/Freeze/Stop, debuff attackers with Mini, and make doing anything difficult with Heat. The games will happily send you back to the title screen if you don't stop to understand how they work.
This is a weird contrast to set up when SMT's "cast Agi on Jack Frost" combat isn't substantially different from casting Fire on an Ice Flan, or switching Wakka in to hit an Ahriman.
Yeah, sure, Yunalesca was totally mindless. Just healing and clicking. That's totally a thing that happens.No its not. I finished multiple ff games and it was mainly "click click click" as fast as possible to kill trash mobs. During boss fights you have to remeber to heal in-between clicks
I want to see more of them again, and I agree they've fallen off. I feel this is partly a consequence of the asset pipeline. That window of time when everything was just diffuse textures on polygons left level designers eager to use the additional dimension for multi-room and multi-floor puzzles, and it was easier to iterate on and "find the fun" when there was less overhead to creating something thematic and interesting. Paper Mario immediately jumps to mind, because while it has to keep some things simple for younger players, it loves to use these multi-floor actions like draining the sand from Dry Dry Ruins into lower rooms to fill up gaps.
This is getting more into action RPG territory, but there's a 1999 Japan-only PlayStation RPG called Brightis that got very ambitious with Zelda-like puzzle and level design, despite having nowhere near the resources to do that. The game is only like 10 hours long, but almost all of the puzzles involve using "key elements" that are simultaneously light sources, platform switches, and door keys. When I first played it a few years back, I was shocked at how this game that came from seemingly nowhere (okay, not nowhere, it's Quintet) could build such big environments with puzzles spanning the whole dungeon. You would do things like pick up a key element to light your way through a dark corridor, put it in a switch hole to activate a moving platform, take it out when the platform was aligned properly, then carry it over to a door where you'd need to give it up to open it--and then find out that you didn't put it in the keyhole, you put it in a mimic pretending to be a keyhole. The big dungeon-spanning puzzles involved figuring out how to retrieve a multiple key elements in different parts of the dungeon and unite them all in a particular place.
I think Tales of Symphonia actually marked a point where it was getting harder to crunch out all the rooms and setpieces on a 2-year production timeline. When I revisited it in 2020, I was surprised by how small the dungeons were; the Water Seal for example is basically just three rooms.
To me, puzzle design is fundamentally part of level design. Lufia II did something I don't see often, integrating a lot of optional puzzles outside the critical path. I remember getting "tricked" a few times by puzzles that appeared to be necessary to proceed, but were actually side content.
Per the CrossCode example, I think in the future we're more likely to see these kinds of design sensibilities out of 2D games than 3D ones. It's not as easy to implement the same visual depth, but it is easier to iterate until you get to something resembling it. The Sea of Stars demo has a bit of this going on with the prism-themed dungeon sending you to rooms with a lot of verticality, I expect the full game will be even more of that.
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Well you see in Cross-
Dammit Sammy I have one gimmick why you gotta take it from me /s
Dunno, maybe those gamers suck if they have to go to gamefaqs to finish ffx. I played the game close to the release date and didn't have the internet to back me up.
Even if that is true and you need a buff in a certain fight what does it change? What % of game time is fighting with bosses compared to other fights? You mostly fight with trash mobs and all you need is click "X" as fast as possible to skip the chore that's called turn based system in jrpgs.
There is a difference. In smt you exploit weaknesses to down enemies and kill them in one fell swoop. In ffx you just do more dmg. Most of the time it's more efficient to just spam X to do normal attacks and save time.
Rampo360
Like Like
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And experience both Chaotic Dance tracks
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I'm sorry! All my fault. CrossCode is just too good, that's the problem. And I really need to play it again sometime.
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Yeah it's also important to mention that the accesibility option to reduce the speed on timed puzzles, this one saved me a lot of frustration specially on the last dungeon
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I love how the game even calls out that final puzzle room with just how absurdly large and complicated it is. "...Really?"
But I agree, CrossCode has some really good accessibility options in general for both puzzles and combat which is nice to see.
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Finished This Way Madness Lies a few minutes ago. Overall another good and short rpg from Zeboyd but as I mentioned earlier the Shakespear thematic simply doesn't do it for me, and there is so much the magical girl theme can carry. Also I think the ending is kinda rushed, at least compared to their previous games. But hey, MECHS!
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Just get ready. Things are about to really go off the rails (in the best way!)
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Was checking the update blog on Rune Factory 3 special
Oh god that last part gonna save some time now
www.xseedgames.com
Oh god that last part gonna save some time now
Rune Factory 3 Special – Localization Blog #1 | XSEED Games
Hello Earthmates and welcome to our first localization blog for Rune Factory 3 Special. This blog will serve as a short introduction to the game, our approach to localization, and what’s new in the Special version. About the Game Rune Factory 3 Special is a remaster of the third mainline entry...
www.xseedgames.com
Mekanos
Tattletale
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While the VA on FFX can be iffy, I maintain the actual localization is very well done. The script feels conversational and there's tons of scenes of the characters just chatting casually and it feels natural. I especially notice it coming off Persona 5 Royal where the dialogue tends to feel more stilted, where you can tell it is obviously originally a Japanese game. I enjoy just talking to characters to get more dialogue.
About to do my first Blitzball game so we'll see how I do.
About to do my first Blitzball game so we'll see how I do.
Blitzball is awesome. Probably my favourite minigame ever. Well, maybe except gwent.
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This is a weird one for me. It’s kind of a situation where they can’t really win.
On one hand, I’m fine with them because I think JRPG dungeons could use more stuff than just combat and being a maze. On the other hand, once puzzles are included, they disappoint me because my experience with puzzle dungeons is Zelda - which is entirely built around giving tools to solve those puzzles. JRPGs are never built around puzzle solving, so it comes off as arbitrary when it’s included.
It’s a weird conundrum, and one I’m not entirely sure there’s a perfect solution for.
OP
OP
I finally rolled credits in Trails Into Reverie today after 95 hours! I’ll share my post from the ST which covers my main thoughts:
I’ve heard there’s about 10 - 20 hours of stuff to do in the epilogue so given how I do everything and take my time, I imagine I’ll be on the upper end there. But yeah really excited I finished the majority of the game! It was so good! When I’m all done here, I’ll be moving on to Pikmin 4 and Rain Code, but then I’ll be on to my next RPG This Way Madness Lies!
Mekanos
Tattletale
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Holy fuck I am bad at Blitzball
Good news is we are on the move with Auron now. While I could see some people not liking the more linear focus in FFX, I think it's really effective with the pilgrimage storyline and gives the player a sense of urgency to keep moving. So it works well here for me.
Good news is we are on the move with Auron now. While I could see some people not liking the more linear focus in FFX, I think it's really effective with the pilgrimage storyline and gives the player a sense of urgency to keep moving. So it works well here for me.
Mekanos
Tattletale
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Welp, just did that Sinspawn Gui boss battle, that was the first boss I actually died on. On the rematch though Ifrit was clutch and saved the day. The cutscene after was bonkers with everyone dying in the attack.
Also, what's the name of the theme that plays during the second phase here?
This track that plays in the aftermath is sublime:
Also, what's the name of the theme that plays during the second phase here?
This track that plays in the aftermath is sublime:
D
Deleted member 2258
Guest
I started up a new save for Chrono Cross, and the combat is making a lot more sense now with the help of some old bookmarked advice posts! I went with Guile due to his Magus/Magil connection this time. It was hard to leave behind my guitar smashing buddy. And I'm trying out the improved visuals this time too. Excited to finally get back into it!
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cross posting from the retro thread because i’m not sure where discussion of this game fits!
so in SMRPG, I’ve got Bowser in my party and im making my way up Booster’s Tower for the fourth star. Anyone got an estimate on how much of the game is left?
so in SMRPG, I’ve got Bowser in my party and im making my way up Booster’s Tower for the fourth star. Anyone got an estimate on how much of the game is left?
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I think that's around the halfway point, from what I remember.
EDIT: Was about to add, IMO the second half of SMRPG is stronger than the first half, if that helps too!
OP
OP
Saw your Retro thread reply first, but I shared with Red if anyone wants to add on:
I usually consider that about halfway through. Probably a bit less than halfway, but close enough if that helps. Definitely halfway after the next proper location concludes.
A bit tricky to guess hours in this game since it doesn’t have a clock haha.
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Finally finished Zelda Oracle of Seasons. It's kinda liberating to be constrained by the 2d gameplay style because you can appreciate more the design of the world and the dungeons. Also I liked the alternatives to the classic tools like the magnetic gloves instead of the hookshot, You can tell it was made by capcom with the real Onox fight being just the second phase of Sigma fight from MMX, jumping over the claws
Mekanos
Tattletale
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Got to the Thunder Plains in FFX, that scene with Seymour showing the dream vision of Zanarkand has big "let's show off the budget" energy, it was great
They do a great job punctuating the gameplay with lots of big twists and plot moments to keep you engaged
They do a great job punctuating the gameplay with lots of big twists and plot moments to keep you engaged
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I really like the thunder plains for whatever reason, something about the visuals and the 'ticking clock' style to the music really works. FFX definitely does a good job of layering on the plot twists, especially starting at around that area. There are just so many great moments! You're making me want to fire it up again.
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Well disc 3 of FFVIII has been a wild ride so far. find the hidden future city, go to space, turns out Rinoa was possessed by Ultimecia(called it), Adel gets freed from prison, the moon is a monster nest and now we found the awesome endgame ship that is posses by alien knockoffs. Oh and a bunch of dwahhhing between Squall and Rinoa
Now back to the surface!
Definitely doing a slight change of pace after I finish this before doing IX tho. Maybe P3P or Ryza
Now back to the surface!
Definitely doing a slight change of pace after I finish this before doing IX tho. Maybe P3P or Ryza
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When you’re trying to get the stuff to summon the ghost train in FFVIII. Just got the tentacles left and I think abusing triple triad is the best way to go
Edit: nm, I’d need 24 of these cards and I’m getting one every four matches or so. Sigh guess I’ll try hunting for one in the wild again
Edit: nm, I’d need 24 of these cards and I’m getting one every four matches or so. Sigh guess I’ll try hunting for one in the wild again
