Xbox Rare has been an Xbox developer for 20 years now

[Dinoman96]

Microsoft Acquires Video Game Powerhouse Rare Ltd. - Stories

Developers of Such Worldwide Hits as "Donkey Kong 64," "Banjo-Kazooie," "GoldenEye 007" And "Perfect Dark" Bring Their Talents to Xbox

news.microsoft.com

20 years ago, Microsoft had officially announced their intention to completely purchase Rare and the 49% stake that Nintendo had in them in prior. This brought an end to Nintendo and Rare's eight year long partnership that produced some of their biggest and most iconic games.

It's a weird thought. Rare has existed for nearly 40 years at this point and their history can be split up into four different "eras":

• The "Ultimate Play the Game" era, where they made a bunch of ZX spectrum games (1983-1985)
• The NES third party era, where the Stamper Bros. shed the UPTG signage and formed Rare, creating lots of weird licensed games as well as original properties like Battletoads and Snake Rattle N' Roll (1986 - 1994)
• The "second party" Nintendo era, where once again they made some of their most beloved and iconic games like DKC, Banjo, GoldenEye, etc (1994 - 2002)
• And finally, the first party Xbox developer era (2002 - today)

and believe it or not, the Microsoft era actually makes up the largest chunk of their history there, now spanning twenty whole years. In that timeframe, they developed games like Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero (these three were actually originally just N64/GCN games first...), Viva Pinata, Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts, the Kinect Sports games (lol) and now more recently Sea of Thieves, which has gone on to be their biggest overall success story since the end of the Nintendo era.

My thoughts on this overall: I do understand why things did break down between Nintendo and Rare, but I do think it's kind of a shame things couldn't of turned out better, in an ideal world Rare would of maintained their quality from the SNES/N64 days and Nintendo would of been more encouraged to acquire them as a first party dev, but well, we don't live in an ideal world. As a silver lining, at least Sea of Thieves worked out for them.

Another silver lining I suppose, is that Rare never truly left Nintendo behind entirely: thanks to Microsoft not having a dedicated handheld platform, they were still allowed to produce a few more games for GBA and DS, like the DKC/DKR remakes and BK Grunty's Revenge. And thanks to MS' and Nintendo's ongoing positive relationship, classic Rare games have been seeing something of a resurgence on Nintendo Switch, with Banjo-Kazooie joining Super Smash Bros. Ultimate as well as the original BK being re-released on a Nintendo platform for the first time on NSO earlier this year, as well as the very recent announcement of GoldenEye 007 finally being unearthed for both Switch and Xbox. Hopefully we'll see more Rare classics see a return on NSO down the line, to ensure that their partnership with Nintendo will never truly be forgotten about.

By the way...it's also the 20th anniversary of Star Fox Adventures, Rare's final home console game for Nintendo platforms. Here, have this neat illustration of Krystal done by Takaya Imamura, the creator and character designer of the Star Fox franchise to commemorate.

 

[Irene]

Time flies!

Y'all remember Grabbed By The Ghoulies?
"375 million dollars for THIS?! I bet Microsoft is in severe anguish right now.."

Seriously though, where did Everwild go?

 

[Deleted member 3476]

I do understand why things did break down between Nintendo and Rare, but I do think it's kind of a shame things couldn't of turned out better, in an ideal world Rare would of maintained their quality from the SNES/N64 days and Nintendo would of been more encouraged to acquire them as a first party dev, but well, we don't live in an ideal world. As a silver lining, at least Sea of Thieves worked out for them.

"Yeah... my Miyamoto story is a bit worse," he admits. "It was when E3 had moved to Atlanta [1997]. Nintendo had a party in a museum, and we all got hideously drunk. I saw [Rare founder] Tim Stamper talking to Miyamoto, and I introduced myself as the composer of Banjo-Kazooie, totally drunk. He just looked at me with the blankest expression, he couldn't tell what I was saying. A while later, I was in the bathroom - and this is embarrassing - I was trying to pull down [Donkey Kong 64 designer] George Andreas' trousers for a joke. I was on my knees and I looked up to see Miyamoto staring down at me. That was the last time I spoke to him."

 

[Mazzle]

Funny how the 8 years under Nintendo left an bigger impression and was more stacked with big hits, than their now 20 years under Microsoft

 

[Deleted member 341]

Wow. My last Rare game I thoroughly loved was Kameo back when the 360 came out.

The graphics were quite mindblowing to me. Always waited for a 2nd game but never got it.

Hopefully Everwild will be a great game. The recent reports on it didn't sound like they had much of an idea what to do with it.

 

[Catalyst]

Donkey Kong Racing would have been so good....

 

[Phil32]

I'm glad Rare has a big hit with Sea of Thieves, although it's not my type of game at all.
That said, looking forward to seeing how Everwild turns out. Hope it turns out well.

 

[KC Hazel]

I miss Rare. This was like the worst gaming news ever at the time. Still hurts.

 

[Nathan Little]

While I'll still defend some of their output under MS, their tenure with Nintendo will never be topped.

 

[Marizza Pia Spiritto]

I don't know any other partnership that was more iconic than Rare/Nintendo. I still don't understand how everything went downhill so fast.

Please make Viva Pinata 2

 

[Rareware]

I don't know any other partnership that was more iconic than Rare/Nintendo. I still don't understand how everything went downhill so fast.

Please make Viva Pinata 2

They spent nearly 20 years making games and creating a fanbase of their own with Nintendo’s fans. If you were a fan of Nintendo’s games, it’s very likely you were a fan of Rare’s, and vice versa. When Microsoft acquired them, Rare now had to make games for an entirely new audience and fans and they weren’t interested in the types of games Rare used to make. Much different crowd the Xbox/Xbox 360 era fanbase was. Today those games would be much more well accepted with Xbox players now wanting a more diverse catalog of games to play.

Actually, it would be Viva Piñata 3; VP 4 if we’re counting the handheld game, Pocket Paradise. So much effort was put into that franchise. Can’t think of another actually that had 4 games and a tv show all out in the span 2 years: 2006-2008. Very impressive for a brand new IP.

 

[Marizza Pia Spiritto]

They spent nearly 20 years making games and creating a fanbase of their own with Nintendo’s fans. If you were a fan of Nintendo’s games, it’s very likely you were a fan of Rare’s, and vice versa. When Microsoft acquired them, Rare now had to make games for an entirely new audience and fans and they weren’t interested in the types of games Rare used to make. Much different crowd the Xbox/Xbox 360 era fanbase was. Today those games would be much more well accepted with Xbox players now wanting a more diverse catalog of games to play.

Actually, it would be Viva Piñata 3; VP 4 if we’re counting the handheld game, Pocket Paradise. So much effort was put into that franchise. Can’t think of another actually that had 4 games and a tv show all out in the span 2 years: 2006-2008. Very impressive for a brand new IP.

omg I forgot about Trouble in Paradise, I'm so sorry I need to repent. I did play Pocket Paradise, it wasn't the best one... But it was what it was. The franchise really was everywhere. It blows my mind how it kinda fizzled out so quickly. I hope they haven't forgotten about it.

But about the first point, Rare coming off Nintendo had stuff like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker, Killer Instinct, which were more fitting to the Xbox audience at the time. I can get why Goldeneye didn't pan out in any way, but Perfect Dark or Conker didn't do all that great either... and they didn't even try Killer Instinct. Instead they kept trying to be like Microsoft's Nintendo with Kameo, Nuts and Bolts, Viva Pinata, Kinect Sports, Kinect Adventures, the Xbox Avatars. Which was not a bad thing by itself, because Kinect Adventures and Sports sold very well and Viva Pinata is great and Kameo is good. But I don't know, it felt like they weren't shining or standing out as much as before and not as consistently - and while I love Halo, I like Gears of Wars and Xbox in general I'm not in the dudebro audience. Their output wasn't 100% consistent with Nintendo either, but they were always standing out regardless.

 

[Rareware]

omg I forgot about Trouble in Paradise, I'm so sorry I need to repent. I did play Pocket Paradise, it wasn't the best one... But it was what it was. The franchise really was everywhere. It blows my mind how it kinda fizzled out so quickly. I hope they haven't forgotten about it.

But about the first point, Rare coming off Nintendo had stuff like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker, Killer Instinct, which were more fitting to the Xbox audience at the time. I can get why Goldeneye didn't pan out in any way, but Perfect Dark or Conker didn't do all that great either... and they didn't even try Killer Instinct. Instead they kept trying to be like Microsoft's Nintendo with Kameo, Nuts and Bolts, Viva Pinata, Kinect Sports, Kinect Adventures, the Xbox Avatars. Which was not a bad thing by itself, because Kinect Adventures and Sports sold very well and Viva Pinata is great and Kameo is good. But I don't know, it felt like they weren't shining or standing out as much as before and not as consistently - and while I love Halo, I like Gears of Wars and Xbox in general I'm not in the dudebro audience. Their output wasn't 100% consistent with Nintendo either, but they were always standing out regardless.

The early days with Xbox were rough, and the games did suffer a bit. Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo both went through three different console ports, Live and Reloaded was a remake, and Ghoulies also was ported over from GameCube as well. Donkey Kong Racing was converted to the sadly cancelled Sabreman Stampede which also went from GameCube-to-Xbox-to-Xbox 360. That extremely short 4 year life cycle for the original Xbox really did a number on them I think. Spent more time porting than building games it felt like.

Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo did decent enough, with both selling a little over a million at launch. Killer Instinct was being considered at one point as Robin Beanland actually wrote a new song for a hypothetical new game that ended up being a “controlled leak” to see if there was still interest in a new game. That song can actually be heard in the 2013 KI’s end credits theme!

But it made sense for them to keep making the types of games they always made… That’s what had been selling for them for the past nearly 20 years prior. But the audience just wasn’t the same. And when they tried to pivot to appeal the new audience, their games were being canceled. Kameo 2, for instance, was going to have a more mature direction than the original; Chris Seavor was working on a Perfect Dark sequel called Perfect Dark Core; Goldeneye got a complete graphical overhaul. They were definitely working on those games you mentioned, Microsoft just wouldn’t greenlight them.

Then came the Kinect days and for the next several years, Rare had a new franchise selling over 10million units, which was more than their entire Xbox and Xbox 360 catalog of games combined. Kinect Sports wasn’t what people like you and I wanted, but it’s what Rare needed and the probably wouldn’t be around today had it flopped.

Oh and Kinect Adventures isn’t a Rare game, btw. Don’t remember who made it, but wasn’t Rare.

 

[GamerJM]

This might be a hot take, but even though they didn't make it, Kinect Adventures weirdly felt more like a Rare game than Sports.

 

[Barely Able]

Time flies!

Y'all remember Grabbed By The Ghoulies?
"375 million dollars for THIS?! I bet Microsoft is in severe anguish right now.."

Seriously though, where did Everwild go?

Fun story. When I was in college, I got to go to Microsoft headquarters to play test an early build. Everybody there absolutely hated the game. We all got copies of Office though, so could sell those off for a decent amount.

 

[Soul Skater]

It’s simply unbelievable to this day Nintendo allowed this to happen after what they did for them on the n64. Literally what even is that console without them releasing 2-3 AAA bangers per year for it. Despite the terrible software droughts it had they plugged in gaps in the release schedule about as well as they possibly could have

Also considering just how not ready Nintendo’s first party themselves were for that generation. They straight up could not afford to lose them

 

[Rareware]

It’s simply unbelievable to this day Nintendo allowed this to happen after what they did for them on the n64. Literally what even is that console without them releasing 2-3 AAA bangers per year for it. Despite the terrible software droughts it had they plugged in gaps in the release schedule about as well as they possibly could have

Also considering just how not ready Nintendo’s first party themselves were for that generation. They straight up could not afford to lose them

If the people at Nintendo who were so strongly associated with Rare had still been there, I’ve zero doubt that Nintendo would have made the acquisition. But before all this went down, those people all either retired or left the company between 2000-2002: Hiroshi Yamauchi, Howard Lincoln, Ken Lobb, then President of NoA also left or retired (sorry, can’t remember his name). Each of those people were strong proponents of Rare and I don’t believe for a second they would have let Rare go like that.

So it all just really boiled down to an unfortunate matter of circumstance and bad timing.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I'm not on the side that say that Rare immediately lost their hand on making games when they went to Xbox.. and I even got soften overtime for things like Nuts & Bolts. They've been enjoying a lot of success with Sea of Thieves too, and I'm happy with that even if that's not my thing..

But man, they're dearly missed at Nintendo, of how much variety they provided for their lineup. Not only on genres, but also on a different flavor too. Nintendo doesn't have anything like that these days, and while studios like Next Level and Retro are somewhat their replacement, they never really filled the same role in my heart.

 

[Mekanos]

I'm not on the side that say that Rare immediately lost their hand on making games when they went to Xbox.. and I even got soften overtime for things like Nuts & Bolts. They've been enjoying a lot of success with Sea of Thieves too, and I'm happy with that even if that's not my thing..

But man, they're dearly missed at Nintendo, of how much variety they provided for their lineup. Not only on genres, but also on a different flavor too. Nintendo doesn't have anything like that these days, and while studios like Next Level and Retro are somewhat their replacement, they never really filled the same role in my heart.

Yeah, I’m glad they have a big hit with some of the classic Rare charm in Sea Of Thieves even if it’s not the kind of game I am interested in, but the Nintendo/Rare partnership was so critical to my gaming sensibilities growing up that I don’t think my interest in gaming as a whole ever recovered from the split. The DK series is still struggling from it to this day.

 

[Dinoman96]

TBH considering that it's been well documented that Rare was already tired of making Banjo sequels by the time Tooie came out, I kinda how much DK would be fairing even if they were still around.

It's worth pointing out that the teams at Rare that worked on DKC, DKC2, DKC3 and DK64 were already off working on original projects for GCN, like Grabbed by the Ghoulies and Kameo. They did have some DK games in the works like Donkey Kong Racing, Diddy Kong Pilot and DK Coconut Crackers though, I suppose, but outside of DKR those were smaller spinoff titles made by their handheld team (that also made Grunty's Revenge).

 

[CyberWolfBia]

TBH considering that it's been well documented that Rare was already tired of making Banjo sequels by the time Tooie came out, I kinda how much DK would be fairing even if they were still around.

It's worth pointing out that the teams at Rare that worked on DKC, DKC2, DKC3 and DK64 were already off working on original projects for GCN, like Grabbed by the Ghoulies and Kameo. They did have some DK games in the works like Donkey Kong Racing, Diddy Kong Pilot and DK Coconut Crackers though, I suppose, but outside of DKR those were smaller spinoff titles made by their handheld team (that also made Grunty's Revenge).

I don't think they'd have much of a choice when comes to Donkey Kong, tbh.. They were contracted to do exactly that, and Nintendo would naturally want more Donkey Kong titles.

Banjo and other IPs they created, were exactly for their own creativity freedom, that breathing room, and that was encouraged within Nintendo as well, but that doesn't nullfil the job they were asigned to do with Donkey Kong franchise.

It's like Grezzo, on the constant loop of remaking/remastering stuff, mostly Zelda related. But Nintendo sure gave them a hand for Ever Oasis;

And besides, it's worth of noting they never even stated of fatigue of Donkey Kong titles... on contrary, we heard they wanted to pitch DKC4 for the DS, after the GBA remakes were so well recieved.

 

[Mekanos]

I don't think they'd have much of a choice when comes to Donkey Kong, tbh.. They were contracted to do exactly that, and Nintendo would naturally want more Donkey Kong titles.

Banjo and other IPs they created, were exactly for their own creativity freedom, that breathing room, and that was encouraged within Nintendo as well, but that doesn't nullfil the job they were asigned to do with Donkey Kong franchise.

It's like Grezzo, on the constant loop of remaking/remastering stuff, mostly Zelda related. But Nintendo sure gave them a hand for Ever Oasis;

And besides, it's worth of noting they never even stated of fatigue of Donkey Kong titles... on contrary, we heard they wanted to pitch DKC4 for the DS, after the GBA remakes were so well recieved.

I'd definitely like to peak into the timeline where we got one last Rare DKC. Even if a lot of the old team members weren't around anymore, Pacifica in DKC3 GBA proved they could still put out some solid levels. We'd probably see the Kremlings, K. Rool, et. al one more time again as well.

 

[Christo750]

I'm sure there was some inner-studio turmoil but still what a waste of talent and potential. Microsoft just does not have the ability to manage studios.

 

[Rooster]

Pouring one out for Nintendo-era Rare and what could've been

At least Banjo eventually came to Smash

 

[Zalman]

To this day, when people think of Rare, they think Banjo-Kazooie, Donkey Kong Country, GoldenEye. Even with the relatively recent success of Sea of Thieves, I think they will always be a shadow of their former legacy, which is honestly a bit sad.

 

[Celine]

TBH considering that it's been well documented that Rare was already tired of making Banjo sequels by the time Tooie came out, I kinda how much DK would be fairing even if they were still around.

It's worth pointing out that the teams at Rare that worked on DKC, DKC2, DKC3 and DK64 were already off working on original projects for GCN, like Grabbed by the Ghoulies and Kameo. They did have some DK games in the works like Donkey Kong Racing, Diddy Kong Pilot and DK Coconut Crackers though, I suppose, but outside of DKR those were smaller spinoff titles made by their handheld team (that also made Grunty's Revenge).

Rare game sales were heavily dependant on the Donkey Kong IP under Nintendo.
First list are Rare million seller under Nintendo, second list the million seller for which Microsoft/Rare own the IPs.
Around 23% of the total sales are present in the second list.

 

[Gartooth]

I feel like no one won out on this deal. Rare for their legacy, Microsoft in terms of the studio not generating many hits until Kinect Sports and Sea of Thieves, and Nintendo because it long term damaged the Donkey Kong IP.

 

[YolkFolk]

It’s simply unbelievable to this day Nintendo allowed this to happen after what they did for them on the n64. Literally what even is that console without them releasing 2-3 AAA bangers per year for it. Despite the terrible software droughts it had they plugged in gaps in the release schedule about as well as they possibly could have

Also considering just how not ready Nintendo’s first party themselves were for that generation. They straight up could not afford to lose them

Nintendo might have felt like Rare were on the decline and no longer worth the investment. There wasn’t really much from the Gamecube/Xbox era which would have given a major boost to the Gamecube if Nintendo had kept them on.

 

[Terrell]

My thoughts on this overall: I do understand why things did break down between Nintendo and Rare, but I do think it's kind of a shame things couldn't of turned out better, in an ideal world Rare would of maintained their quality from the SNES/N64 days and Nintendo would of been more encouraged to acquire them as a first party dev, but well, we don't live in an ideal world. As a silver lining, at least Sea of Thieves worked out for them.

I don't believe quality was a concern.

I don't know any other partnership that was more iconic than Rare/Nintendo. I still don't understand how everything went downhill so fast.

It’s simply unbelievable to this day Nintendo allowed this to happen after what they did for them on the n64. Literally what even is that console without them releasing 2-3 AAA bangers per year for it. Despite the terrible software droughts it had they plugged in gaps in the release schedule about as well as they possibly could have

Also considering just how not ready Nintendo’s first party themselves were for that generation. They straight up could not afford to lose them

If the people at Nintendo who were so strongly associated with Rare had still been there, I’ve zero doubt that Nintendo would have made the acquisition. But before all this went down, those people all either retired or left the company between 2000-2002: Hiroshi Yamauchi, Howard Lincoln, Ken Lobb, then President of NoA also left or retired (sorry, can’t remember his name). Each of those people were strong proponents of Rare and I don’t believe for a second they would have let Rare go like that.

So it all just really boiled down to an unfortunate matter of circumstance and bad timing.

OH, do I have a story to tell all of you. Some of you may have already heard it and forgotten about it.

First off, it is worth noting that, from the moment Nintendo acquired enough of Rare to own 49.9% of them (or whatever it was) back in 1995, Nintendo had the option to purchase the entire remainder of Rare as part of that contract for 5 years after, and Nintendo was to be permitted the exclusive right to purchase the remainder in that timeframe. But, as part of the contract, if Nintendo does not make the acquisition, Rare had the sole right to sell their share AND act in Nintendo's interests in a sale to an outside party. But no offer was made and Nintendo requested an extension, literally putting in an 11th hour offer, but the Stampers by this point were looking for upwards of 3-4 times what they got for the first 49.9% and Nintendo did not believe they were worth that much at the time, especially since (as Celine points out) the bulk of their commercial success revolved around Nintendo IP. Also, by 2000, there was a fair amount of design staff attrition that would have likely worried Nintendo.

Now, considering their SNES releases alone account for at least 20 million units of software sold from 1994-1996 on the SNES/SFC alone (which was no small feat at the time), the smart play would have been to buy in 1996 at the earliest or 1997 post-Goldeneye at the latest. That was THE time to make it happen, and it's likely the Stampers would have settled for a lower offer at that time, since it's clear from that contract they were ready to sell to Nintendo as early as 1995.

But the major issue is that much of the Rare deal was brokered and managed by Howard Lincoln and... my thoughts about him are pretty plain (just search for threads with his name on them, you'll find my thoughts on the subject from the early days of Famiboards). Guy was a vainglorious douche who did things in service to himself or NoA, not the parent company, so a full Rare acquisition would mean losing control of Rare to NCL, who weren't really great with Western studio relations at that time, having little to no experience with them, but Lincoln and his team also didn't seem inclined to help resolve that (and thus potentially cut out the necessity for their roles as go-betweens with NCL moving forward). So a full acquisition was never put forward any earlier, despite having the option literally sitting there to do it. Yamauchi was retiring, Iwata was head of corporate planning and Lincoln reported to him, and his attempts to follow up his Midas touch with Rare were absolute tire-fires, so he bailed. FAST.

So when the time came for Rare to ask if they were buying or walking away, Nintendo wasn't paying what the Stampers felt they were worth when they started hearing outside offers.

So yeah, it didn't happen primarily because Howard Lincoln dragged his feet, Yamauchi was... Yamauchi and the Stampers wanted a bigger payout. Just a lot of self-interest from everyone involved got in the way, basically.

 

[Hailinel]

I feel like no one won out on this deal. Rare for their legacy, Microsoft in terms of the studio not generating many hits until Kinect Sports and Sea of Thieves, and Nintendo because it long term damaged the Donkey Kong IP.

How?

 

[Gartooth]

How?

Donkey Kong games do not sell as well, do not get made as often, and are not as popular now as they were when Rare was making them.

 

[Yavga]

Inifinite paralell universes and I somehow didn't end up on the one where Banjo was still going strong for Switch... Sad.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah, I don't know how anyone can say that losing Rare didn't hurt the DK series at all.

In the 20 years since Rare left Nintendo, there have literally only been three (three) new mainline DK platformers: Jungle Beat, DKC Returns and DKC Tropical Freeze. And nobody besides turbonerds like us even remembers JB.

 

[Gartooth]

Yeah, I don't know how anyone can say that losing Rare didn't hurt the DK series at all.

In the 20 years since Rare left Nintendo, there have literally only been three (three) new mainline DK platformers: Jungle Beat, DKC Returns and DKC Tropical Freeze. And nobody besides turbonerds like us even remembers JB.

Yep. Also I don't mean to diminish how great DKCR and DKCTF are (DKCR sold incredibly well akin to the Rare games) but having only 2 games of that caliber in 20 years has been terrible for the franchise's health. Under Rare, DK was receiving regular mainline and spinoff titles, with a high rate of sales for each individual title despite a near annual release lineup of DK games. The franchise received higher promotion as a top dog for the Nintendo brand, had far more cross-media and merch presence, and so on.

Right now I don't think it's controversial to say franchises that would normally have a fraction of the popularity of DK like Kirby and Fire Emblem are now more relevant and popular to today's Nintendo audience than Donkey Kong. A franchise that was easily top 4 most popular from Nintendo in the 90s with Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.

 

[Mr Doggo]

Yep. Also I don't mean to diminish how great DKCR and DKCTF are (DKCR sold incredibly well akin to the Rare games) but having only 2 games of that caliber in 20 years has been terrible for the franchise's health. Under Rare, DK was receiving regular mainline and spinoff titles, with a high rate of sales for each individual title despite a near annual release lineup of DK games. The franchise received higher promotion as a top dog for the Nintendo brand, had far more cross-media and merch presence, and so on.

Right now I don't think it's controversial to say franchises that would normally have a fraction of the popularity of DK like Kirby and Fire Emblem are now more relevant and popular to today's Nintendo audience than Donkey Kong. A franchise that was easily top 4 most popular from Nintendo in the 90s with Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.

Tho i def disagree on the notion that fe surpassed dk. TF is still ahead of fe3h (and is a port)

 

[Gartooth]

Tho i def disagree on the notion that fe surpassed dk. TF is still ahead of fe3h (and is a port)

Yeah if you compare only the main games head to head. Fire Emblem as a franchise has had far more activity though than the DK franchise. Heroes is Nintendo's biggest mobile game ever, it gets several spinoffs like the Warriors games, it's mainline series gets far more frequent releases too. In the time since Tropical Freeze there will have been 3 new mainline FEs and a remake by the time Engage is out.

 

[Mr Doggo]

Yeah if you compare only the main games head to head. Fire Emblem as a franchise has had far more activity though than the DK franchise. Heroes is Nintendo's biggest mobile game ever, it gets several spinoffs like the Warriors games, it's mainline series gets far more frequent releases too. In the time since Tropical Freeze there will have been 3 new mainline FEs and a remake by the time Engage is out.

yes fe does get waay more games, but dk still has the bigger sales potential.

 

[Nathan Little]

Ever since RARE's purchase, there has only been 3 mainline Donkey Kong games in 20 years. And I'm only counting Jungle Beat because it's the closest thing to a mainline title on the GameCube.

This is a bad look, and the more Nintendo keeps being quiet about the series, the more damaging it will be to the brand in terms of fan perception. Despite the last two games selling extremely well, you just don't see many Nintendo enthusiasts talk about DK anymore in the same vein as their top IPs or even their B tier franchises like Metroid or Fire Emblem.

 

[Hailinel]

yes fe does get waay more games, but dk still has the bigger sales potential.

Fire Emblem is developed, managed, and co-owned by Intelligent Systems, who specifically devote resources not just to the mainline entries, but to external media and other Fire Emblem projects.

Donkey Kong is owned solely by Nintendo, and so it's either they make one internally at EPD, one of Nintendo's other first-party studios makes one (like Retro), or they partner with an interested third-party.

They're really not the same case at all.

 

[Gay Bowser]

Funny how the 8 years under Nintendo left an bigger impression and was more stacked with big hits, than their now 20 years under Microsoft

I don’t know. Judging by sales numbers, more people have played Kinect Sports and Sea of Thieves than any of their games for Nintendo.

A “big hit” in the SNES era was very different than a big hit now.

 

[kaya bunji]

Sea of Thieves is probably one of the best video games ever made, albeit a deeply flawed one that underutilises it's world and setting to create a playground for PVP bullies.

Before SoT however, I can't think of a single positive post-Nintendo memory of Rare.

 

[Rareware]

I don't believe quality was a concern.



OH, do I have a story to tell all of you. Some of you may have already heard it and forgotten about it.

First off, it is worth noting that, from the moment Nintendo acquired enough of Rare to own 49.9% of them (or whatever it was) back in 1995, Nintendo had the option to purchase the entire remainder of Rare as part of that contract for 5 years after, and Nintendo was to be permitted the exclusive right to purchase the remainder in that timeframe. But, as part of the contract, if Nintendo does not make the acquisition, Rare had the sole right to sell their share AND act in Nintendo's interests in a sale to an outside party. But no offer was made and Nintendo requested an extension, literally putting in an 11th hour offer, but the Stampers by this point were looking for upwards of 3-4 times what they got for the first 49.9% and Nintendo did not believe they were worth that much at the time, especially since (as Celine points out) the bulk of their commercial success revolved around Nintendo IP. Also, by 2000, there was a fair amount of design staff attrition that would have likely worried Nintendo.

Now, considering their SNES releases alone account for at least 20 million units of software sold from 1994-1996 on the SNES/SFC alone (which was no small feat at the time), the smart play would have been to buy in 1996 at the earliest or 1997 post-Goldeneye at the latest. That was THE time to make it happen, and it's likely the Stampers would have settled for a lower offer at that time, since it's clear from that contract they were ready to sell to Nintendo as early as 1995.

But the major issue is that much of the Rare deal was brokered and managed by Howard Lincoln and... my thoughts about him are pretty plain (just search for threads with his name on them, you'll find my thoughts on the subject from the early days of Famiboards). Guy was a vainglorious douche who did things in service to himself or NoA, not the parent company, so a full Rare acquisition would mean losing control of Rare to NCL, who weren't really great with Western studio relations at that time, having little to no experience with them, but Lincoln and his team also didn't seem inclined to help resolve that (and thus potentially cut out the necessity for their roles as go-betweens with NCL moving forward). So a full acquisition was never put forward any earlier, despite having the option literally sitting there to do it. Yamauchi was retiring, Iwata was head of corporate planning and Lincoln reported to him, and his attempts to follow up his Midas touch with Rare were absolute tire-fires, so he bailed. FAST.

So when the time came for Rare to ask if they were buying or walking away, Nintendo wasn't paying what the Stampers felt they were worth when they started hearing outside offers.

So yeah, it didn't happen primarily because Howard Lincoln dragged his feet, Yamauchi was... Yamauchi and the Stampers wanted a bigger payout. Just a lot of self-interest from everyone involved got in the way, basically.

Wow. What an incredible case of the greed of someone really having a negative effect on the future of not one, but two companies. I know a lot of people don’t like to hear this, but Nintendo took a hit themselves for a long time without Rare. Didn’t have their go-to prime partner to fill in software gaps. Had they been around still, would have had less software droughts on the GameCube, Wii and Wii U.

 

[Hero of Legend]

DKVine has their podcast for the anniversary.

 

[Nathan Little]

I don’t know. Judging by sales numbers, more people have played Kinect Sports and Sea of Thieves than any of their games for Nintendo.

A “big hit” in the SNES era was very different than a big hit now.

I don't have any numbers, but I imagine as years go by, there are more generations of gamers who played the DKC games, not just on SNES, but on Virtual Console and NSO than people who have played SoT or Kinect.

 

[Gay Bowser]

I don't have any numbers, but I imagine as years go by, there are more generations of gamers who played the DKC games, not just on SNES, but on Virtual Console and NSO than people who have played SoT or Kinect.

I think you’re probably overestimating the number of people who play classic games on VC/NSO who didn’t grow up with them.

Kids today generally aren’t going back to play DKC.

 

[Nathan Little]

I think you’re probably overestimating the number of people who play classic games on VC/NSO who didn’t grow up with them.

Kids today generally aren’t going back to play DKC.

With the series legacy, I'm not sure why they wouldn't. And with easy availability and save states, these games have become easily accessible for anyone of any skill level.

 

[Gay Bowser]

With the series legacy, I'm not sure why they wouldn't.

hint: kids don’t actually care about “the series legacy”

 

[Nathan Little]

hint: kids don’t actually care about “the series legacy”

Well then, I'll go by breaking door to door dressed up as Donkey Kong and shove the games in their face. They would have to care then.

 

[Dcubed]

And almost all of it has been a gigantic waste since the Microsoft buyout.

Grabbed by the Ghoulies is still their best post buyout release by far. Genuinely solid title that got unfairly maligned for being the wrong game on the wrong console, at the wrong time. But otherwise? It’s mostly just been a sea of disappointment for 20 years.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Well then, I'll go by breaking door to door dressed up as Donkey Kong and shove the games in their face. They would have to care then.

this u?