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StarTopic Nintendo Switch 2 Speculation Thread |ST| The Future is just Beyond the Present

What is the big day 1 launch game for successor of the Nintendo Switch System?

  • 3D Mario

    Votes: 212 80.0%

  • 2D Mario

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • New Donkey Kong

    Votes: 4 1.5%

  • Metroid Prime 4: Beyond

    Votes: 22 8.3%

  • Pokemon Legends: Z-A

    Votes: 4 1.5%

  • Star Fox

    Votes: 2 0.8%

  • New IP

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • Mario Kart

    Votes: 14 5.3%

  • Super Smash Bros

    Votes: 2 0.8%

  • Splatoon

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • Animal Crossing

    Votes: 2 0.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • New Zelda

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Total voters
    265
Reader mode
To add on the date speculation, what if the "March" that floated around Gamescom 2023 was actually referring to March 2025, the release, all along?
 
Homura said:
To add on the date speculation, what if the "March" that floated around Gamescom 2023 was actually referring to March 2025, the release, all along?
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That would, imo, not fit with Brazil's info, which was that at least some third parties worked under the assumption of a late 2024 release.

If the March date they were talking about at Gamescom was for launch, you could expect that thirds would've been briefed around that time.
 
0
Switch 2 has a different challenge than Switch 1

Switch 1 was coming off the Wii U, which nobody brought, so they could say "hey see that new 10/10 Zelda that everyone is talking about? Buy a Switch to play it!" and people did, cus they didn't own a Wii U

If they try and say "hey see that new 10/10 Metroid Prime everyone is talking about? Drop Big Chunky Money on a Switch 2 to play it" 150 million people can just say back "or I could just buy it on the Switch I already have and not pay you a Hefty Fee?"

Switch 2 needs uncrossgen exclusives in a way Switch 1 didn't, because it's following up a popular successful machine.
 
It's easy to say that Switch 2 will fly off shelves, but nobody knows this for sure. How many people thought the 3DS would do amazing numbers based on DS sales? Do you think Nintendo wants to risk sub-par hardware sales while everyone waits for 3D Mario to drop? This is their only platform for the next 7-9 years, they're absolutely going to play it as safe as possible.
 
VegiHam said:
If they try and say "hey see that new 10/10 Metroid Prime everyone is talking about? Drop Big Chunky Money on a Switch 2 to play it" 150 million people can just say back "or I could just buy it on the Switch I already have and not pay you a Hefty Fee?"
Click to expand...
Sure, but that’s why I think the launch year is more important than just the launch title. The people lining up to buy the Switch 2 at launch are most likely the same people who are gonna want to play cross-gen games on better hardware anyway. The full user base is not gonna turn their nose up to a new console regardless of the launch exclusive slate; hell, the modern Xbox lineup was selling out at launch, and they didn’t even have a 1st party cross-gen game at launch.

All that matters is having exclusives up and running within the year, because that’s when the initial launch hype will die down. People will buy the console if there’s a strong pipeline of exclusives coming soon, doesn’t matter if they’re there day 1 or not.
 
Josh5890 said:
This is turning into one lopsided poll.
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we have so little to go off on. 3D Mario is the safe choice because it's the team that's been missing the longest
  • Donkey Kong ain't even guaranteed to exist
  • MP4 could come later than Drake launch
  • same with Pokemon Legends ZA
  • Star Fox, no word on continuation
  • new IP is almost a given, but that's the only descriptor you can reasonably assume, making it a boring choice
  • Mario Kart, probably too soon as the Booster Course Pass ended just last year
  • Smash is probably too soon as Sakurai talked about going back into development rather recently; similarly Studio 2/ Studio S is a rather recent development, coincidentally, Smash Ultimate started updating again after the studios' birth
  • Splatoon 3 is still being updated for the time being, could be too soon, maybe
  • Animal Crossing is also too soon if they want to have a lot of content ready on the card. the last major update was 2022(?) for New Horizons
  • Other is is for IPs that are probably in a more uncertain state than even Star Fox
  • new Zelda, well that's already written off
 
The Switch's 2024 lineup is interesting because it makes you wonder what Nintendo's actual plans for this year are/were. There's 3 scenarios:

1. The Switch 2 was always intended to release in 2025 like recent comments are suggesting and these Switch 1 games were always intended to release this year.

2. Switch 2 was intended to release this year AND all of these Switch 1 games were scheduled for this year as well. It's possible but that would be a pretty stacked release schedule. No doubt something like Mario and Luigi would have been overshadowed by a Switch 2 launch with a potential new 3D Mario or Mario Kart.

3. The Switch 2 was delayed and Switch 1 games intended to release after Switch 2 launch were moved up to fill the schedule. This one is also possible but it's also the funniest scenario to me because we like to meme about Nintendo sits on titles but this would make it seem like they have a full stockpile of finished Switch games that they can release whenever they feel like it. This is antithetical to how pretty much every other publisher does things.

It's probably a combination of things and we'll likely never get the full story on how Switch 2 plans are set and changed. But it's fun to speculate.
 
HockeyBird said:
The Switch's 2024 lineup is interesting because it makes you wonder what Nintendo's actual plans for this year are/were. There's 3 scenarios:

1. The Switch 2 was always intended to release in 2025 like recent comments are suggesting and these Switch 1 games were always intended to release this year.

2. Switch 2 was intended to release this year AND all of these Switch 1 games were scheduled for this year as well. It's possible but that would be a pretty stacked release schedule. No doubt something like Mario and Luigi would have been overshadowed by a Switch 2 launch with a potential new 3D Mario or Mario Kart.

3. The Switch 2 was delayed and Switch 1 games intended to release after Switch 2 launch were moved up to fill the schedule. This one is also possible but it's also the funniest scenario to me because we like to meme about Nintendo sits on titles but this would make it seem like they have a full stockpile of finished Switch games that they can release whenever they feel like it. This is antithetical to how pretty much every other publisher does things.

It's probably a combination of things and we'll likely never get the full story on how Switch 2 plans are set and changed. But it's fun to speculate.
Click to expand...
The 2nd half lineup is pretty solid so I wouldn't be shocked if 2025 was the plan all along.
 
HockeyBird said:
The Switch's 2024 lineup is interesting because it makes you wonder what Nintendo's actual plans for this year are/were. There's 3 scenarios:

1. The Switch 2 was always intended to release in 2025 like recent comments are suggesting and these Switch 1 games were always intended to release this year.

2. Switch 2 was intended to release this year AND all of these Switch 1 games were scheduled for this year as well. It's possible but that would be a pretty stacked release schedule. No doubt something like Mario and Luigi would have been overshadowed by a Switch 2 launch with a potential new 3D Mario or Mario Kart.

3. The Switch 2 was delayed and Switch 1 games intended to release after Switch 2 launch were moved up to fill the schedule. This one is also possible but it's also the funniest scenario to me because we like to meme about Nintendo sits on titles but this would make it seem like they have a full stockpile of finished Switch games that they can release whenever they feel like it. This is antithetical to how pretty much every other publisher does things.

It's probably a combination of things and we'll likely never get the full story on how Switch 2 plans are set and changed. But it's fun to speculate.
Click to expand...
I think scenario 1 is the most likely. Now there may have been a time when 2024 was penciled in as the release year but I think it's pretty clear with the line up we have now that 2025 has been the plan for some time.
 
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Josh5890 said:
The 2nd half lineup is pretty solid so I wouldn't be shocked if 2025 was the plan all along.
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It's so hard to say because of cross gen and we genuinely don't know how Nintendo will support that. But they are certainly acting like 2024 was not the goal for a significant time.

It's kinda crazy that they could be putting out Mario Party, a new top down Zelda, and a revived Mario + Luigi within 6 months of the successor's release haha.
 
I think the Day 1 game will either be a new IP designed to take full advantage of the system or a new 3D Mario that does the same. Pokémon Legends: Z-A and Metroid Prime 4 could be cross-gen games but I don't think either will be a good sell for the new hardware. Unlike the Wii U, the Switch was a massive success and the successor is coming with a non-trivial power jump.

However to entertain the idea of either Metroid Prime 4 or Pokémon Legends: Z-A as launch games, I think EPD will still like to have an internally developed title alongside that acts as some kind of tech demo for the system.
 
Now that Prime 4 is vaguely dated to 2025, as I mentioned before, this to me is the giveaway that the game is coming alongside the Switch 2. No, I don't think it's the sole launch game, nor that Nintendo will rely the release of the new system on it.. but I'd be surprised if they released the Switch 2 first, then Prime 4 a couple of months later, since it's also coming to Switch 1.

As for Pokémon Legends Z-A, I feel it's coming in early February either way (since DKCR HD is January), and it's not cross-gen.
 
HockeyBird said:
The Switch's 2024 lineup is interesting because it makes you wonder what Nintendo's actual plans for this year are/were. There's 3 scenarios:

1. The Switch 2 was always intended to release in 2025 like recent comments are suggesting and these Switch 1 games were always intended to release this year.

2. Switch 2 was intended to release this year AND all of these Switch 1 games were scheduled for this year as well. It's possible but that would be a pretty stacked release schedule. No doubt something like Mario and Luigi would have been overshadowed by a Switch 2 launch with a potential new 3D Mario or Mario Kart.

3. The Switch 2 was delayed and Switch 1 games intended to release after Switch 2 launch were moved up to fill the schedule. This one is also possible but it's also the funniest scenario to me because we like to meme about Nintendo sits on titles but this would make it seem like they have a full stockpile of finished Switch games that they can release whenever they feel like it. This is antithetical to how pretty much every other publisher does things.

It's probably a combination of things and we'll likely never get the full story on how Switch 2 plans are set and changed. But it's fun to speculate.
Click to expand...
Isn’t it possible that most of the H2 2024 Switch titles (Zelda, M+L, SMPJ) were originally targeting H1 2024 releases before Switch 2 was delayed, and Nintendo has just stretched out their 2024 titles across the full year (while stuffing the lineup with remasters/remakes)?

That said, I’m starting to suspect that option 1 is correct.
 
Jbone916 said:
Isn’t it possible that most of the H2 2024 Switch titles (Zelda, M+L, SMPJ) were originally targeting H1 2024 releases before Switch 2 was delayed, and Nintendo has just stretched out their 2024 titles across the full year (while stuffing the lineup with remasters/remakes)?

That said, I’m starting to suspect that option 1 is correct.
Click to expand...

H1 game are usually dated or at least given a rough release period at the September Direct of the previous year. That means that if some of these H2 games were originally supposed to have been released already, we would have seen them last year. The Switch 2 delay news didn't hit until February of this year and by then, Nintendo's release schedule for the first half of the year would have likely been finalized at that point. And it's not like H1 2024 was completely barren. They would only have room for maybe one more title.
 
CyberWolfBia said:
Now that Prime 4 is vaguely dated to 2025, as I mentioned before, this to me is the giveaway that the game is coming alongside the Switch 2. No, I don't think it's the sole launch game, nor that Nintendo will rely the release of the new system on it.. but I'd be surprised if they released the Switch 2 first, then Prime 4 a couple of months later, since it's also coming to Switch 1.

As for Pokémon Legends Z-A, I feel it's coming in early February either way (since DKCR HD is January), and it's not cross-gen.
Click to expand...
I would be surprised if Z-A is released before next year's Pokémon Day. Most people don't realize but this is the longest that a new mainline game announced on Pokémon Day remains without a release date or window. As far back as X and Y, they have always dated their games early in June at the latest (Arceus and Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl had their release date and box art revealed via a tweet on May 26 2021). It's a bit amusing to me that we know a bit more about Metroid Prime 4 than Z-A at the moment.
 
goldrogerii said:
I would be surprised if Z-A is released before next year's Pokémon Day. Most people don't realize but this is the longest that a new mainline game announced on Pokémon Day remains without a release date or window. As far back as X and Y, they have always dated their games early in June at the latest (Arceus and Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl had their release date and box art revealed via a tweet on May 26 2021). It's a bit amusing to me that we know a bit more about Metroid Prime 4 than Z-A at the moment.
Click to expand...
I feel Legends Z-A was supposed to be this year's Pokémon and it was pushed just a few months away; I doubt it will go past February and it will release in a similar timeframe of Legends Arceus did back in 2022, very early in the year.
 
So why put Mario & Luigi in November (third Mario RPG in a year) when they could have easily coasted on Zelda/Mario Party/DKCR for H2? It could have gone to fill an empty slot next year, unless of course they already have enough software in the pipeline.
 
yeah after this direct I don't think a 2024 release for switch 2 was in the cards, this just feels like a normal year for the switch and I really don't see how they would have fitted in a switch 2 launch especially if they already have switch games aiming for a 2025 release. I'm not feeling a march release either tbh, they could easily have both pokemon and prime 4 to cover the first half of next year and release the next switch in september, probably not going to happen but I can see a may release instead.
 
0
HockeyBird said:
The Switch's 2024 lineup is interesting because it makes you wonder what Nintendo's actual plans for this year are/were. There's 3 scenarios:

1. The Switch 2 was always intended to release in 2025 like recent comments are suggesting and these Switch 1 games were always intended to release this year.

2. Switch 2 was intended to release this year AND all of these Switch 1 games were scheduled for this year as well. It's possible but that would be a pretty stacked release schedule. No doubt something like Mario and Luigi would have been overshadowed by a Switch 2 launch with a potential new 3D Mario or Mario Kart.

3. The Switch 2 was delayed and Switch 1 games intended to release after Switch 2 launch were moved up to fill the schedule. This one is also possible but it's also the funniest scenario to me because we like to meme about Nintendo sits on titles but this would make it seem like they have a full stockpile of finished Switch games that they can release whenever they feel like it. This is antithetical to how pretty much every other publisher does things.

It's probably a combination of things and we'll likely never get the full story on how Switch 2 plans are set and changed. But it's fun to speculate.
Click to expand...
I think Option 1 is most likely, but Option 3 would be hilarious as hell because of the mental image of Nintendo just having a bunch of complete games just sitting on a shelf that they can passively flick through. "Hmm, this complete remake of the Mother trilogy? Nah, the vibes aren't right. Save it for the next anniversary. Kid Icarus Uprising? Meh, maybe next summer. Oh, hey, Returns HD, I forgot we commissioned this. Let's throw out there as a January release."
 
0
CyberWolfBia said:
I feel Legends Z-A was supposed to be this year's Pokémon and it was pushed just a few months away; I doubt it will go past February and it will release in a similar timeframe of Legends Arceus did back in 2022, very early in the year.
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I don't think there's any thing pointing to Z-A being originally slated for this year. Mainline Pokémon can have empty years and they have before. Ironically the last this happened was in the X and Y era.
I understand the comparison with Arceus since both games carry the moniker "Legends" but I think the context around it is different from Z-A; even just from the way they were both revealed. Arceus was from the start said to be an early 2022 game. Many people ignored the word early and focused on 2022 (some thought it would be delayed for sure) which is why some people were surprised at the released date. Z-A was not given a timing which on it's own is strange for a Pokémon reveal. If we assuming it following Arceus timeline even loosely, there are many things missing. No gameplay, no partner Pokémon revealed or box art. The genre of the game isn't even stated on the official Pokémon website in Japanese. So yeah, I think it's further out than Arceus was at this time.


Now to be fair they can easily change this if they have a large scale presentation of the game in August like they've done since 2021 but honestly, in my opinion, I don't even think they'll show the release date in an August presentation.
 
VegiHam said:
Switch 2 has a different challenge than Switch 1

Switch 1 was coming off the Wii U, which nobody brought, so they could say "hey see that new 10/10 Zelda that everyone is talking about? Buy a Switch to play it!" and people did, cus they didn't own a Wii U

If they try and say "hey see that new 10/10 Metroid Prime everyone is talking about? Drop Big Chunky Money on a Switch 2 to play it" 150 million people can just say back "or I could just buy it on the Switch I already have and not pay you a Hefty Fee?"

Switch 2 needs uncrossgen exclusives in a way Switch 1 didn't, because it's following up a popular successful machine.
Click to expand...
I mean...couldn't you have said the same thing about the PS4 to PS5...? Or any next gen launch TBH...

It feels like we do this all the time when a new gen rolls around and then the consoles just fly off the shelves.
 
goldrogerii said:
I would be surprised if Z-A is released before next year's Pokémon Day. Most people don't realize but this is the longest that a new mainline game announced on Pokémon Day remains without a release date or window. As far back as X and Y, they have always dated their games early in June at the latest (Arceus and Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl had their release date and box art revealed via a tweet on May 26 2021). It's a bit amusing to me that we know a bit more about Metroid Prime 4 than Z-A at the moment.
Click to expand...
games are taking longer to make in general. such a gap was inevitable. not doing the announcement, we'd be talking about longest gap between game announcements instead
 
Thunder84 said:
Sure, but that’s why I think the launch year is more important than just the launch title. The people lining up to buy the Switch 2 at launch are most likely the same people who are gonna want to play cross-gen games on better hardware anyway. The full user base is not gonna turn their nose up to a new console regardless of the launch exclusive slate; hell, the modern Xbox lineup was selling out at launch, and they didn’t even have a 1st party cross-gen game at launch.

All that matters is having exclusives up and running within the year, because that’s when the initial launch hype will die down. People will buy the console if there’s a strong pipeline of exclusives coming soon, doesn’t matter if they’re there day 1 or not.
Click to expand...

Jerm411 said:
I mean...couldn't you have said the same thing about the PS4 to PS5...? Or any next gen launch TBH...

It feels like we do this all the time when a new gen rolls around and then the consoles just fly off the shelves.
Click to expand...
On the one hand, you guys could well be right.

On the other hand, I want new Mario sooner, so I have decided to trick myself into believing that it is necessary
 
VegiHam said:
On the one hand, you guys could well be right.

On the other hand, I want new Mario sooner, so I have decided to trick myself into believing that it is necessary
Click to expand...
Hey if it gets us a new 3D Mario sooner, I will line up right behind you LOL...
 
0
With 2024 lineup reveal and we know that January game is DKCR HD I think we can speculate more about Switch 2 lineup. First of all, I think the rest of their current FY lineup is

February: Prime 2+3 Remasters
March: Mario 3D, EPD4 non-enthusiastic game. (Both Switch 2 exclusives)

then we would be entering 2025/26 FY where Nintendo tends to worldwide publish around 1 title per month, so that would be predicting 12 titles but honestly we already knew some of them…

  • Metroid Prime 4 and Pokemon A-Z are already confirmed and of course will be released for Switch 1
  • Per Brazil, Nintendo is also planning to release a 3DS game remaster (Kirby?) and Gamecube remaster (F-Zero GX?). Both very likely to be cross-gen.

Then just speculate the other 8..
  • New Mario Kart and Animal Crossing as Switch 2 exclusives
  • Fire Emblem 4 remake is also a good candidate for next FY, still be a cross-gen
  • A special Mario product for 40th Anniversary that probably will be cross-gen (Mario Warriors?)
  • I think from potential 12 Nintendo titles, 6 will be Switch 2 exclusive, other 6 be cross-gen. Having already mentioned all 6 cross-gen, it would left 4 more Switch 2 exclusives.
  • From 4 more SW2 exclusives left, I think one of them is a new Luigis Mansion, other one is a new Action focus game (like Astral Chain 2 or new Star Fox) and a new Monolith Soft game*. That would have 1 more game left.

So to sum up potential FY2025/26 lineup
  • Cross-Gen: Metroid Prime 4, Pokémon A-Z, 3DS remaster, Gamecube remaster, Fire Emblem 4 Remake, Mario 40th Anniversary Game
  • Exclusive: Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Luigis Mansion, Action Game, Monolith Soft Game, ??? (Camelot?)

I think this can be a very varied lineup full of different titles, target demographies and genres.


What do you think?

* This can also be Xeno X Remake, exclusive to Switch 2
 
Last edited:
stingylettuce said:
Metroid Prime 4 cross-gen launch title as a graphical showcase, and 3D Mario launch title to capture as much of an install base as possible. Check it.
Click to expand...

I think there's almost no chance whatsoever they announce their graphical showcase game without actually showing it running on the Switch 2 hardware.

"Look how blurry and shitty this game looks on the Switch 1 and then look at how good it looks on Switch 2" is possible but very unlikely.

And you kind of have to shit on the Switch 1 version to promote the Switch 2 version if you're using the Switch 2 version's graphics to promote your new system.
 
0
Nintendo console sell patterns are not like those for PlayStation and Xbox.

People buy PlayStation and Xbox machines with the expectation that those machines will be their primary platforms for playing all games for the next 5-8 years (depending on generation length). This means even in the absence of a major day one launch game, an Xbox or PlayStation console can enjoy a strong launch commercially because people will buy those with the expectation that they will play Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Grand Theft Auto, FIFA, Resident Evil, Dark Souls, etc., all on that one console for the better part of the next decade. You'll buy the systems because you are guaranteed games you will play on it in a few months to a few years regardless of their presence at launch.

Nintendo consoles, at least pre- and through to Switch, have sold off the back of killer app exclusive titles made by Nintendo. In other words, people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, this is not to say that third party games do not find success on Nintendo systems, they obviously do, but the number of people who buy a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games is much higher than the number of people who buy Nintendo consoles primarily for third party titles, to a disproportionate degree - and when they do buy Nintendo hardware for third party titles, often those titles end up being exclusives (such as Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, SMT). This means that, at least until the upcoming generational transition, Nintendo has needed big games to sell hardware more than Xbox or PlayStation - as an example, the PS4 managed just fine in the absence of big launch games, but the Wii U floundered (and even the 3DS did, and the 3DS was a handheld, a market Nintendo had and continues to all but monopolize). In essence, the difference between sales patterns here could almost be described as the difference between the approach of a toy maker (you need an exciting new toy/gimmick/character to sell your new toy line) versus that of an electronics device maker (people will upgrade to the new generation anyway because they want a better experience).

So, how does this apply to the Switch->Switch 2 transition? I think this is where it gets interesting for a number of reasons:

  1. The Switch has seen an extraordinary and unprecedented level of support (and correlated, success) for third parties for a Nintendo platform. More than half of the billion plus games sold on Switch are third party titles - the Switch has sold more third party games than most Nintendo systems have sold games, to put that in perspective. The sales of third party titles on the Switch, whether they be small indie games, mid tier releases from major publishers, or even AAA games such as Mortal Kombat, Assassiin's Creed, GTA, Persona, Red Dead Redemption, the banned wizard game, The Witcher 3, NBA, FIFA/FC, Diablo, have all been extremely high, so high that we can now make a valid case that for many people, the Switch is their primary game system. I don't just mean for us uber fans and hyper nerds who hang out on Nintendo enthusiast forums, because people like us will always have claimed a Nintendo system is their primary, but it never matters because we are a fraction of a fraction of a niche audience. I mean of the broader, general, mainstream audience, there are many who continue to use the Switch as their primary system for games
    1. This is reflected in the Switch's average active user count, which is at 125 million as of the last report (the Switch has more active user than most consoles have sales)
    2. This is reflected in the continued success of third party games on the Switch (whether you look at the eShop charts, or platform breakdowns for reported retail sales data, third party games are continuing to do extraordinarily well on Switch even into 2024)
    3. The takeaway, then, is that the Switch has a broad, massive audience that is treating it as their primary way to play games on an ongoing basis, not just in sporadic bursts like, say, the 3DS or the Wii
  2. With the Switch, the hardware itself is appealing and the "killer app". People like the Switch hardware. Enthusiasts may find it old or outdated, but the broader market does not care and continues to purchase Switch at full price seven and a half years after launch, at a higher pace of sales than Xbox and a higher pace of sales than even PS5 (depending on the market or the tracking period). Switch sales are also supremely unaffected by the output of games - previous Nintendo consoles had a sales pattern where the sales would be dramatically inflated around the launch of a major new exclusive, but drop in other periods. This does not happen with the Switch, while it does see sales boosts when major new exclusives release, the general sales baseline is extremely high and unimpacted by Nintendo's release schedule (as evidenced in 2018, 2020, and parts of 2021 and 2024)
    1. The obvious question here is, is a newer and better version of this concept enough to make people want to spend money on it for existing, just like they do for the current Switch? Or will the novelty have worn off by then and the hardware concept will no longer be a "killer app" like it has been for the Switch?
    2. Based on the points I have made above, I am inclined to believe the Switch hardware does not sell out of novelty, but utility. 13 million people will not buy the Switch in 2024 because of novelty, they will buy it because they find the hardware to have utility. At which point the obvious takeaway is that a better and more improved version of this concept and hardware will also continue to benefit from this utility driven appeal (as opposed to declining because of the novelty wearing out)
  3. The last point here is Nintendo themselves. The post I have made so far suggests Nintendo does not have any real need to have killer apps to sell the Switch 2, because the utility, inherent appeal, and engaged install base will all carry forward the momentum from this system to the next. However, Nintendo themselves are probably being cautious. We have enough statements by them alluding to this that we can conclude this. The Wii to Wii U transition probably looms large in their heads, and this also happens to be Furukawa's first new system launch. I feel like those factors all combine to create a mindset where Nintendo will want to leave NOTHING to chance. They may be able to get away with pricing it higher than necessary, but they don't want to risk it backfiring like the 3DS. They may be able to get away with not having a major launch game right at release to jumpstart momentum, but they don't want to risk it backfiring like the 3DS, Wii U, or even GameCube. And so on. Basically, they will probably do every single thing in their ability to ensure the Switch 2 launch is unimpeded, even if there are several places where they can afford to take their foot off the gas pedal - because in their mind, they have screwed up what may at the time also have seemed like a sure shot success enough that it is better to be safe than sorry.
So what is the summation of this entire rambling stream of consciousness rant? Basically, I think past Nintendo systems needed killer apps at launch to ensure a successful launch and enough momentum to keep sales going, which is different from PlayStation and Xbox. I also think that, based on available evidence, the Switch has changed things, and a Switch successor can get away with launching without a huge killer app to push things right away. However, even if the Switch 2 doesn't need it, I think Nintendo will ensure there is a big game at launch, and they will ensure a steady cadence of releases to keep momentum rolling. In other words, the Switch 2 might not "need" a killer app at launch, but it is getting one regardless, because Nintendo will go out of their way to make sure it does.

The discussion, then, should not be if the Switch 2 needs a killer app at launch or not. It should be speculation on what said killer app might be. Personally I can't imagine anything other than 3D Mario filling in this slot (well actually i can imagine 3D Zelda also doing it, but that is not happening in 2025 lol), so I think it will be that.
 
Hero of Hyrule said:
Nintendo console sell patterns are not like those for PlayStation and Xbox.

People buy PlayStation and Xbox machines with the expectation that those machines will be their primary platforms for playing all games for the next 5-8 years (depending on generation length). This means even in the absence of a major day one launch game, an Xbox or PlayStation console can enjoy a strong launch commercially because people will buy those with the expectation that they will play Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Grand Theft Auto, FIFA, Resident Evil, Dark Souls, etc., all on that one console for the better part of the next decade. You'll buy the systems because you are guaranteed games you will play on it in a few months to a few years regardless of their presence at launch.

Nintendo consoles, at least pre- and through to Switch, have sold off the back of killer app exclusive titles made by Nintendo. In other words, people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, this is not to say that third party games do not find success on Nintendo systems, they obviously do, but the number of people who buy a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games is much higher than the number of people who buy Nintendo consoles primarily for third party titles, to a disproportionate degree - and when they do buy Nintendo hardware for third party titles, often those titles end up being exclusives (such as Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, SMT). This means that, at least until the upcoming generational transition, Nintendo has needed big games to sell hardware more than Xbox or PlayStation - as an example, the PS4 managed just fine in the absence of big launch games, but the Wii U floundered (and even the 3DS did, and the 3DS was a handheld, a market Nintendo had and continues to all but monopolize). In essence, the difference between sales patterns here could almost be described as the difference between the approach of a toy maker (you need an exciting new toy/gimmick/character to sell your new toy line) versus that of an electronics device maker (people will upgrade to the new generation anyway because they want a better experience).

So, how does this apply to the Switch->Switch 2 transition? I think this is where it gets interesting for a number of reasons:

  1. The Switch has seen an extraordinary and unprecedented level of support (and correlated, success) for third parties for a Nintendo platform. More than half of the billion plus games sold on Switch are third party titles - the Switch has sold more third party games than most Nintendo systems have sold games, to put that in perspective. The sales of third party titles on the Switch, whether they be small indie games, mid tier releases from major publishers, or even AAA games such as Mortal Kombat, Assassiin's Creed, GTA, Persona, Red Dead Redemption, the banned wizard game, The Witcher 3, NBA, FIFA/FC, Diablo, have all been extremely high, so high that we can now make a valid case that for manypeople, the Switch is their primary game system. I don't just mean for us uber fans and hyper nerds who hang out on Nintendo enthusiast forums, because people like us will always have claimed a Nintendo system is their primary, but it never matters because we are a fraction of a fraction of a niche audience. I mean of the broader, general, mainstream audience, there are many who continue to use the Switch as their primary system for games
    1. This is reflected in the Switch's average active user count, which is at 125 million as of the last report (the Switch has more active user than most consoles have sales)
    2. This is reflected in the continued success of third party games on the Switch (whether you look at the eShop charts, or platform breakdowns for reported retail sales data, third party games are continuing to do extraordinarily well on Switch even into 2024)
    3. The takeaway, then, is that the Switch has a broad, massive audience that is treating it as their primary way to play games on an ongoing basis, not just in sporadic bursts like, say, the 3DS or the Wii
  2. With the Switch, the hardware itself is appealing and the "killer app". People like the Switch hardware. Enthusiasts may find it old or outdated, but the broader market does not care and continues to purchase Switch at full price seven and a half years after launch, at a higher pace of sales than Xbox and a higher pace of sales than even PS5 (depending on the market or the tracking period). Switch sales are also supremely unaffected by the output of games - previous Nintendo consoles had a sales pattern where the sales would be dramatically inflated around the launch of a major new exclusive, but drop in other periods. This does not happen with the Switch, while it does see sales boosts when major new exclusives release, the general sales baseline is extremely high and unimpacted by Nintendo's release schedule (as evidenced in 2018, 2020, and parts of 2021 and 2024)
    1. The obvious question here is, is a newer and better version of this concept enough to make people want to spend money on it for existing, just like they do for the current Switch? Or will the novelty have worn off by then and the hardware concept will no longer be a "killer app" like it has been for the Switch?
    2. Based on the points I have made above, I am inclined to believe the Switch hardware does not sell out of novelty, but utility. 13 million people will not buy the Switch in 2024 because of novelty, they will buy it because they find the hardware to have utility. At which point the obvious takeaway is that a better and more improved version of this concept and hardware will also continue to benefit from this utility driven appeal (as opposed to declining because of the novelty wearing out)
  3. The last point here is Nintendo themselves. The post I have made so far suggests Nintendo does not have any real need to have killer apps to sell the Switch 2, because the utility, inherent appeal, and engaged install base will all carry forward the momentum from this system to the next. However, Nintendo themselves are probably being cautious. We have enough statements by them alluding to this that we can conclude this. The Wii to Wii U transition probably looms large in their heads, and this also happens to be Furukawa's first new system launch. I feel like those factors all combine to create a mindset where Nintendo will want to leave NOTHING to chance. They may be able to get away with pricing it higher than necessary, but they don't want to risk it backfiring like the 3DS. They may be able to get away with not having a major launch game right at release to jumpstart momentum, but they don't want to risk it backfiring like the 3DS, Wii U, or even GameCube. And so on. Basically, they will probably do every single thing in their ability to ensure the Switch 2 launch is unimpeded, even if there are several places where they can afford to take their foot off the gas pedal - because in their mind, they have screwed up what may at the time also have seemed like a sure shot success enough that it is better to be safe than sorry.
So what is the summation of this entire rambling stream of consciousness rant? Basically, I think past Nintendo systems needed killer apps at launch to ensure a successful launch and enough momentum to keep sales going, which is different from PlayStation and Xbox. I also think that, based on available evidence, the Switch has changed things, and a Switch successor can get away with launching without a huge killer app to push things right away. However, even if the Switch 2 doesn't need it, I think Nintendo will ensure there is a big game at launch, and they will ensure a steady cadence of releases to keep momentum rolling. In other words, the Switch 2 might not "need" a killer app at launch, but it is getting one regardless, because Nintendo will go out of their way to make sure it does.

The discussion, then, should not be if the Switch 2 needs a killer app at launch or not. It should be speculation on what said killer app might be. Personally I can't imagine anything other than 3D Mario filling in this slot (well actually i can imagine 3D Zelda also doing it, but that is not happening in 2025 lol), so I think it will be that.
Click to expand...
Good points...one reason I'm so bullish on Switch 2's success (outside of the obvious) is I do believe that it could be the console that is seen and perceived as that "this is all you need for the next 5-8 years" type of system.

I know a lot of people already use Switch as that but I think you'll understand what I mean...

I do agree about the killer 1st party app...like if you combine that (what ever it is) with the awesome indies and what I believe will be really good 3rd party support? Yeah it's over lol...
 
not gonna lie the talk shifting from "it'll 100% be in march" to " could be summer or even later" just because Prime 4 has a 2025 release date to be super fucking weird
 
SpaceGodzilla said:
not gonna lie the talk shifting from "it'll 100% be in march" to " could be summer or even later" just because Prime 4 has a 2025 release date to be super fucking weird
Click to expand...
It's H1 for sure. They wouldn't have shown it yesterday if it was more than a year out. They already announced it way too early (albeit for understandable reasons), I truly do not think they'd risk it if they didn't know it's nearing completion/already in polishing stage.
 
BozPaggs said:
It's H1 for sure. They wouldn't have shown it yesterday if it was more than a year out. They already announced it way too early (albeit for understandable reasons), I truly do not think they'd risk it if they didn't know it's nearing completion/already in polishing stage.
Click to expand...
i was talking about the switch 2
 
Wockio said:
So when do we think Switch 2 was supposed to launch initially? October 17 alongside Jambadoodoo?
Click to expand...
Mario Party is a good game, not for me, but i get why people like it. And it has 7 boards instead of 5 which people seem to like. Was watching some reaciton vids to the direct and one group of reactors went nuts with the reveal. I think these are kill apps for groups of friends who game together and use MP for social things.
 
Josh5890 said:
oMqxCGb.png


I'll have a new poll up shortly.
Click to expand...
Suggesiton: Will you be archiving these poll results in the OP and for people to share again once Switch 2 is revealed/relased as this thread has run its course?
 
Dekuman said:
Suggesiton: Will you be archiving these poll results in the OP and for people to share again once Switch 2 is revealed/relased as this thread has run its course?
Click to expand...
I was planning to, yes. They are all here in the thread. I just need to find each post.

I think I might start doing monthly polls too, considering we still at least a few months before it is revealed.
 
ILikeFeet said:
March 2025

And what's with the negativity towards Jamboree? It's just Mario Party
Click to expand...
Dekuman said:
Mario Party is a good game, not for me, but i get why people like it. And it has 7 boards instead of 5 which people seem to like. Was watching some reaciton vids to the direct and one group of reactors went nuts with the reveal. I think these are kill apps for groups of friends who game together and use MP for social things.
Click to expand...
Jamboree looks great and I'm thinking about getting it, I'm just making fun of the name
 
Dekuman said:
Mario Party is a good game, not for me, but i get why people like it. And it has 7 boards instead of 5 which people seem to like. Was watching some reaciton vids to the direct and one group of reactors went nuts with the reveal. I think these are kill apps for groups of friends who game together and use MP for social things.
Click to expand...
the 20 player online looked really cool. I hope they execute it good
 
VegiHam said:
On the one hand, you guys could well be right.

On the other hand, I want new Mario sooner, so I have decided to trick myself into believing that it is necessary
Click to expand...
Believe me, I would love to be wrong. I’m not gonna put my pride over getting the next 3D Mario sooner than I’m expecting to lol
 
0
Unlike the Wii U > Switch transition, the Switch 2 has a catalog of backwards compatible games. Nintendo's first three months of launch lineup might not be heavy on first party, but could get more intense as the months go by.

Though it would be kind of hard to sell a console without an exclusive software for it, and telling consumers that "you can play your old games here" is kinda like: "why buy it now anyways?"
 
0
We know what games will be there at launch for Switch 2. You're looking at them! Iwata said the biggest challenge to a new console is having enough games available at launch, and that the answer is as much compatibility between the hardware systems as possible. All games are cross-gen, and none are. These are all Switch 2 games.

Right now, plenty of people are buying OLED switches, mostly as upgrades to their current Switch. Will Nintendo need to do anything other than slide Switch 2 in as the "new" Switch you upgrade to?

Launch year Switch sales: 15 million
Current OLED sales: 9 million

Yes, Nintendo will need a new reason to buy the hardware. The hardware will not be enough if the games are still just Switch 1 games and play like Switch 1 games. Especially if the screen is the rumored LCD. That's a downgrade from the OLED. This is hardware built to push new game experiences.

So there will be launch titles. Exclusives? I dunno, maybe it launches with cross-gen titles, but... Xbox Series is the most powerful system, launched at the same price as PS5, two days earlier. And with only cross-gen games at launch, it tanked.

Whatever it is there will be a Big Ass Game that Doesn't Play Great or At All On Switch, and it will be a game with an anticipated sales of 10 million, otherwise it's sales won't be sufficient to drive hardware purchases.

It won't be Pokemon even if Nintendo wants it to be, because Nintendo doesn't fully control the release of Pokemon games. And Nintendo is unlikely to want it to be Pokemon because the odds of GameFreak being able to deliver the sort of game that makes you want to upgrade hardware, on the kind of timeline available, is just too small.

It won't be Prime, because the best selling Prime game would still be the worst selling Nintendo launch title. Prime fans believe that the launch hype cycle would help the game. I'm dubious about that, but regardless, I think Nintendo would risk new IP before risking their launch to push an series in it's 4th entry, and the 16th entry in the franchise.

Star Fox, same. Or worse. Star Fox deserves not having to carry the weight of a launch. It deserves to be allowed to lie fallow, then return reinvigorated with a stellar title, looking good on a healthy system.

Nintendo has been weirdly willing to put similar Mario games in within a release year, but Nintendo isn't going to let a third party make their launch title, or make 2D Mario. Wonder was the thing that team was working on, there simply isn't time to make another one for next year.

Sakurai is absolutely capable of burning the midnight oil to deliver a launch game, but I find it hard to believe that Nintendo didn't have their release title set till recently, and all signs point to Smash development beginning recently. Sakurai has indicated he wants to take time with the next game to properly train a successor.

We've got a 2D Zelda coming, it's too soon for a new 3D Zelda, and I don't think an HD remake/remaster is a viable launch title.

Splatoon, maybe. I think it would be foolish, the franchise needs a breather, but 3 sold very well, and they can clearly make them fast.

Animal Crossing, neat dark horse. I think this would be misreading the moment, but Nintendo does that sometimes.

Mario Kart, simultaneously feels like it is too soon and way too late. The length of DLC support makes it feel like a no, but DLC support will have stopped for a long time, and it's a massive seller.

3D Mario is the obvious pick. That team has been silent, it's The Nintendo Game - the mainline series for the mascot character - and the series is on a high, with truly crazy sales.

New DK is an interesting pick. It plays to the right crowd, and Tropical Freeze did respectable numbers for a Wii U game. Returns did 10 million, total, between the two versions. But I think if they go this route, it's the end of the Country label, and essentially "a new series with DK in it"

Which is why I come back to a coin flip between 3D Mario and Totally New IP
 
I feel like the Switch 2's main competitor is the Switch because it has a very active userbase, and people are buying the Switch OLED because they're upgradig an old console. If anything, Nintendo might need to take the Switch OLED approach with the successor in the way that it's time for already existing consumers to upgrade to the next generation, and here's why:
  • It's the next big, shiny thing
  • It's bigger than your current Switch
  • it plays these awesome games 1080p undocked / whatever resolution docked
  • Better Joycons
  • These awesome games can only be played on it
 
0
Hero of Hyrule said:
Nintendo console sell patterns are not like those for PlayStation and Xbox.

People buy PlayStation and Xbox machines with the expectation that those machines will be their primary platforms for playing all games for the next 5-8 years (depending on generation length). This means even in the absence of a major day one launch game, an Xbox or PlayStation console can enjoy a strong launch commercially because people will buy those with the expectation that they will play Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Grand Theft Auto, FIFA, Resident Evil, Dark Souls, etc., all on that one console for the better part of the next decade. You'll buy the systems because you are guaranteed games you will play on it in a few months to a few years regardless of their presence at launch.

Nintendo consoles, at least pre- and through to Switch, have sold off the back of killer app exclusive titles made by Nintendo. In other words, people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, this is not to say that third party games do not find success on Nintendo systems, they obviously do, but the number of people who buy a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games is much higher than the number of people who buy Nintendo consoles primarily for third party titles, to a disproportionate degree - and when they do buy Nintendo hardware for third party titles, often those titles end up being exclusives (such as Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, SMT). This means that, at least until the upcoming generational transition, Nintendo has needed big games to sell hardware more than Xbox or PlayStation - as an example, the PS4 managed just fine in the absence of big launch games, but the Wii U floundered (and even the 3DS did, and the 3DS was a handheld, a market Nintendo had and continues to all but monopolize). In essence, the difference between sales patterns here could almost be described as the difference between the approach of a toy maker (you need an exciting new toy/gimmick/character to sell your new toy line) versus that of an electronics device maker (people will upgrade to the new generation anyway because they want a better experience).

So, how does this apply to the Switch->Switch 2 transition? I think this is where it gets interesting for a number of reasons:

  1. The Switch has seen an extraordinary and unprecedented level of support (and correlated, success) for third parties for a Nintendo platform. More than half of the billion plus games sold on Switch are third party titles - the Switch has sold more third party games than most Nintendo systems have sold games, to put that in perspective. The sales of third party titles on the Switch, whether they be small indie games, mid tier releases from major publishers, or even AAA games such as Mortal Kombat, Assassiin's Creed, GTA, Persona, Red Dead Redemption, the banned wizard game, The Witcher 3, NBA, FIFA/FC, Diablo, have all been extremely high, so high that we can now make a valid case that for manypeople, the Switch is their primary game system. I don't just mean for us uber fans and hyper nerds who hang out on Nintendo enthusiast forums, because people like us will always have claimed a Nintendo system is their primary, but it never matters because we are a fraction of a fraction of a niche audience. I mean of the broader, general, mainstream audience, there are many who continue to use the Switch as their primary system for games
    1. This is reflected in the Switch's average active user count, which is at 125 million as of the last report (the Switch has more active user than most consoles have sales)
    2. This is reflected in the continued success of third party games on the Switch (whether you look at the eShop charts, or platform breakdowns for reported retail sales data, third party games are continuing to do extraordinarily well on Switch even into 2024)
    3. The takeaway, then, is that the Switch has a broad, massive audience that is treating it as their primary way to play games on an ongoing basis, not just in sporadic bursts like, say, the 3DS or the Wii
  2. With the Switch, the hardware itself is appealing and the "killer app". People like the Switch hardware. Enthusiasts may find it old or outdated, but the broader market does not care and continues to purchase Switch at full price seven and a half years after launch, at a higher pace of sales than Xbox and a higher pace of sales than even PS5 (depending on the market or the tracking period). Switch sales are also supremely unaffected by the output of games - previous Nintendo consoles had a sales pattern where the sales would be dramatically inflated around the launch of a major new exclusive, but drop in other periods. This does not happen with the Switch, while it does see sales boosts when major new exclusives release, the general sales baseline is extremely high and unimpacted by Nintendo's release schedule (as evidenced in 2018, 2020, and parts of 2021 and 2024)
    1. The obvious question here is, is a newer and better version of this concept enough to make people want to spend money on it for existing, just like they do for the current Switch? Or will the novelty have worn off by then and the hardware concept will no longer be a "killer app" like it has been for the Switch?
    2. Based on the points I have made above, I am inclined to believe the Switch hardware does not sell out of novelty, but utility. 13 million people will not buy the Switch in 2024 because of novelty, they will buy it because they find the hardware to have utility. At which point the obvious takeaway is that a better and more improved version of this concept and hardware will also continue to benefit from this utility driven appeal (as opposed to declining because of the novelty wearing out)
  3. The last point here is Nintendo themselves. The post I have made so far suggests Nintendo does not have any real need to have killer apps to sell the Switch 2, because the utility, inherent appeal, and engaged install base will all carry forward the momentum from this system to the next. However, Nintendo themselves are probably being cautious. We have enough statements by them alluding to this that we can conclude this. The Wii to Wii U transition probably looms large in their heads, and this also happens to be Furukawa's first new system launch. I feel like those factors all combine to create a mindset where Nintendo will want to leave NOTHING to chance. They may be able to get away with pricing it higher than necessary, but they don't want to risk it backfiring like the 3DS. They may be able to get away with not having a major launch game right at release to jumpstart momentum, but they don't want to risk it backfiring like the 3DS, Wii U, or even GameCube. And so on. Basically, they will probably do every single thing in their ability to ensure the Switch 2 launch is unimpeded, even if there are several places where they can afford to take their foot off the gas pedal - because in their mind, they have screwed up what may at the time also have seemed like a sure shot success enough that it is better to be safe than sorry.
So what is the summation of this entire rambling stream of consciousness rant? Basically, I think past Nintendo systems needed killer apps at launch to ensure a successful launch and enough momentum to keep sales going, which is different from PlayStation and Xbox. I also think that, based on available evidence, the Switch has changed things, and a Switch successor can get away with launching without a huge killer app to push things right away. However, even if the Switch 2 doesn't need it, I think Nintendo will ensure there is a big game at launch, and they will ensure a steady cadence of releases to keep momentum rolling. In other words, the Switch 2 might not "need" a killer app at launch, but it is getting one regardless, because Nintendo will go out of their way to make sure it does.

The discussion, then, should not be if the Switch 2 needs a killer app at launch or not. It should be speculation on what said killer app might be. Personally I can't imagine anything other than 3D Mario filling in this slot (well actually i can imagine 3D Zelda also doing it, but that is not happening in 2025 lol), so I think it will be that.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily think people pick up a PS/XBOX because they can play the latest CoD or sports game, we just saw Xbox kind of collapse despite ticking all those check boxes. There's intangibles at play and 100% agree with Sony, part of that is the expectation every 3rd party game will be on their box, with Nintendo it's that every Nintendo game will be on that box. With Xbox, the value proposition is not as clear. It's something something Gamepass these days.

I also want to caution against the notion Nintendo may be able to take their foot off the pedal with Switch 2. I think they've had this moment of hubris with both the Wii U and 3DS with both platforms launching with mostly 3rd party and 3rd string Nintendo games. The 3DS' failure must be especially stinging since it kept the successful DS form factor, added a 3D gimmick and it still wasn't appealing enough on its own. I think Nintendo understands they need to leave nothing to chance as you say. Even with BC, they will treat Switch 2 as if Switch doesn't exist and i think the value proposition is the one thing that's been sitting infront of us this whole time but people keep ignoring. Power. The emphasis will be enhanced Switch experience. Better graphics, more features, bigger games. The SNES playbook.

I have my own thoughts about what they could launch with as well. I'm not the biggest fan of patterns, although i sometimes fall into mythologizing them, so i'll say that Nintendo hasn't launched with a new 3D Mario game since the N64 and i think their experience hardware launches has shown them the Nintendo faithful will buy their hardware no matter what, but the 2nd ring of users outside of the core fans are more motivated by a Zelda title.

Mario is also a major title, but it has broader appeal and is better suited as a holiday title. Especially if the March launch is true, they will have a good half year to sell to the hardcore crowd before unleashing Mario for the Xmas rush and i do think they will try to recreate 2017 again and still lead with a Zelda.

It won't be a new Zelda since TOTK just came out, and a BOTW/TOTK 4K with enhancements release may release with the console, but i'm thinking of a remake. And nothing will break the internet more than Ocarina of Time remade to scale, with the temples and towns, but thoroughly inculcated with the learnings from BOTW.
 
I'm curious. When do y'all think Nintendo will start teasing the next 3D Zelda lol? 2027? Hell 2026 so we're asking about it for 2+ years before they finally show it off?

oldpuck said:
Mario Kart, simultaneously feels like it is too soon and way too late. The length of DLC support makes it feel like a no, but DLC support will have stopped for a long time, and it's a massive seller.

3D Mario is the obvious pick. That team has been silent, it's The Nintendo Game - the mainline series for the mascot character - and the series is on a high, with truly crazy sales.

New DK is an interesting pick. It plays to the right crowd, and Tropical Freeze did respectable numbers for a Wii U game. Returns did 10 million, total, between the two versions. But I think if they go this route, it's the end of the Country label, and essentially "a new series with DK in it"

Which is why I come back to a coin flip between 3D Mario and Totally New IP
Click to expand...
I'm like 99% confident Mario and Mario Kart are in the first year. 3D Mario for launch and Mario Kart whenever. They could make it a holiday game if they wanted, imo. I've also been under the assumption that a DK game would come out in the first year as well.

I think either way we see a new IP in the launch window or even launch day. I just don't think it'll be something to go and get the system for.
 
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