News Nintendo releases guidelines for tournaments hosted for their games

[Ab]

I'm not a bootlicker. I hate pro gaming in general. Not everything is about corporations.

Eh, not everyone who plays "competitively" want to be pros. I genuinely just like improving and fighting people with and I prefer competitive rulesets.

 

[Mango]

I made the mistake of replying to something in regards to this on Twitter and now I'm seeing all the hyper reactionaries. I look forward to any and all news released by Nintendo in next two months totally being an attempt to cover up these guidelines that they themselves released today.

 

[SNP]

okay there's actually nothing they can do about this shit right???

I don't think it gonna change much, datamine content is already not in the guidelines YouTubers were allowed to monetize before, they just specifically point it out now.

It has always been the sooner or later thing because they can always DMCA it.

 

[Pillydillsy]

okay there's actually nothing they can do about this shit right???

Yeah, that’s a major thing people haven’t been talking about. What is Nintendo going to do if some random highschool or community sets up a smash tournament? Nintendo (to our knowledge) doesn’t have troopers making sure everyone across the world follows copyright laws. I think this will only effect major tournaments and nothing else, which sucks, but isn’t as big as people make it out to be.

 

[Pillydillsy]

I made the mistake of replying to something in regards to this on Twitter and now I'm seeing all the hyper reactionaries. I look forward to any and all news released by Nintendo in next two months totally being an attempt to cover up these guidelines that they themselves released today.

SWITCH 2 ANNOUNCEMENT IMMINENT PEOPLE LETS GOOOOOO

 

[Hailinel]

Yeah, that’s a major thing people haven’t been talking about. What is Nintendo going to do if some random highschool or community sets up a smash tournament? Nintendo (to our knowledge) doesn’t have troopers making sure everyone across the world follows copyright laws. I think this will only effect major tournaments and nothing else, which sucks, but isn’t as big as people make it out to be.

People brought it up earlier in the thread.

Hand wringing over potential scenarios is just idle speculation until there's actual examples. And Jebailey and other professional organizers have said that these guidelines aren't outside the norm compared to what other bodies have put together.

But because it's Nintendo, it's a five-alarm-sky-is-falling emergency, apparently.

 

[Decoyman]

Yeah, that’s a major thing people haven’t been talking about. What is Nintendo going to do if some random highschool or community sets up a smash tournament? Nintendo (to our knowledge) doesn’t have troopers making sure everyone across the world follows copyright laws. I think this will only effect major tournaments and nothing else, which sucks, but isn’t as big as people make it out to be.

Not to mention for majors this could wind up being a good thing if the license application process is a smooth one. Multiple majors have already had to get those over the years but there's never really been a centralized system for it, which no doubt caused a lot of the occasional ghosting situations we hear about. So if there's a system in place now for them to sift through the multiple dozen applications they get every year it should ideally smoothen the process of getting the details ironed out in a concise and appropriate way. This is all assuming that the application process is well designed and maintained of course, which one would hope there is if they're instating this kind of system, but this is Nintendo so we can't be sure until we see it in action.

 

[Mango]

SWITCH 2 ANNOUNCEMENT IMMINENT PEOPLE LETS GOOOOOO

You know you're joking but it's not far from the truth, anything, including the MP3 NSO announcement we just got is going to be treated as conspiracy bait to assume Nintendo is maliciously trying to cover up the news they themselves released.

I'm so tired man. Like corporations aren't your friends people need to realize that, but people also need to learn to grasp that they aren't your enemy either, they're just corporations.

 

[Pillydillsy]

You know you're joking but it's not far from the truth, anything, including the MP3 NSO announcement we just got is going to be treated as conspiracy bait to assume Nintendo is maliciously trying to cover up the news they themselves released.

I'm so tired man. Like corporations aren't your friends people need to realize that, but people also need to learn to grasp that they aren't your enemy either, they're just corporations.

They do thing for money, if that harms or helps you is kinda irrelevant I guess. That’s not to say the workers at Nintendo don’t care about game quality, but the higher ups just want that cash

 

[Lozjam]

Yes they are aimed at small tournaments but the restrictions make it effectively impossible to run most events. If entry fees are capped at $20 per person (and tournaments aren't able to find funding via sponsors, food/merch sales, or streaming revenue) then very few in-person events will be able to offer cash prizes and few tournaments will be able to afford to run at all.

Let's say I run a 200 in person tournament, with a 3,000 cash prize for winning. Entry fee is $20. That in itself, gives itself $4, 000 for operating costs, and cash prize. Reminder, these are for small, grass roots organizations.

No sponsors is extremely unreasonable and makes the events impossible to run in a lot of cases.

Any large event that would need sponsorships can and will make a different license with Nintendo. That is listed in the provisions of the agreement.

Can we change the OP as well? It does not have accurate information for NA and EU. I think a lot of people are getting the wrong idea of what these guidelines actually mean

 

[SNP]

Let's say I run a 200 in person tournament, with a 3,000 cash prize for winning. Entry fee is $20. That in itself, gives itself $4, 000 for operating costs, and cash prize. Reminder, these are for small, grass roots organizations.

Any large event that would need sponsorships can and will make a different license with Nintendo. That is listed in the provisions of the agreement.

Can we change the OP as well? It does not have accurate information for NA and EU. I think a lot of people are getting the wrong idea of what these guidelines actually mean

Only participants fee can be used for cash prize (and operating cost), spectators fee can only be used for operating cost and not allowed be used for prize pool.

 

[dyle]

Let's say I run a 200 in person tournament, with a 3,000 cash prize for winning. Entry fee is $20. That in itself, gives itself $4, 000 for operating costs, and cash prize. Reminder, these are for small, grass roots organizations.

You're going to have a hell of a challenge running a 200 person tournament on a $1,000 budget

 

[Ahmed]

Let's say I run a 200 in person tournament, with a 3,000 cash prize for winning. Entry fee is $20. That in itself, gives itself $4, 000 for operating costs, and cash prize. Reminder, these are for small, grass roots organizations.

In your example that leaves $1000 operating costs.I don't know about the US, but in Europe, even renting just a venue will cost you way more than that, easily €4-7k depending on size and day (weekends are usually the most expensive, which is when tournaments tend to be).
And that's without mandatory venue supervisor and other costs that come with it. That's also without getting all the materials needed to actually host the tournament. In many tournaments I've been to, you can't rely on enough participants to bring a console, plus game, plus tv etc to reduce costs.

 

[Lucyfer]

 

[Yamanoi]

LOL

 

[Lucyfer]

I understand that other companies have very similar guidelines, however if you have any awareness of Nintendo's past encounters with the smash and splatoon scenes, you'll know that Nintendo's involvement with these competitive communities never ends well. They are trying to control a scene they have no intent of actively trying to support.

 

[Decoyman]

I understand that other companies have very similar guidelines, however if you have any awareness of Nintendo's past encounters with the smash and splatoon scenes, you'll know that Nintendo's involvement with these competitive communities never ends well. They are trying to control a scene they have no intent of actively trying to support.

And as history is prone to show we'll all ultimately keep soldiering on like business as usual because they've never bothered to "control" it at a lower level. These guidelines will have the greatest effect on the bigger majors, many of which already had to cowtow to regulations with more difficulty to access the requisite permissions that have become increasingly ubiquitous across the industry.

 

[Lugia667]

so this just comes down to smash players not knowing shit about how companies in general handle this stuff?

 

[Decoyman]

 

[SNP]

so this just comes down to smash players not knowing shit about how companies in general handle this stuff?

Kind of, but there some stupid shit in there like no sales of drink, foods at the avenue that could make it harder for organizers to host a tournament with limited budget, there are also thing some might have concern is the ban of unlicensed accessories (no custom controller for example because Nintendo’s official controller doesn’t have a great accessibility)

 

[Hailinel]

Kind of, but there some stupid shit in there like no sales of drink, foods at the avenue that could make it harder for organizers to host a tournament with limited budget, there are also thing some might have concern is the ban of unlicensed accessories (no custom controller for example because Nintendo’s official controller doesn’t have a great accessibility)

I don't think I've ever heard of a tournament where the organizers selling the only accessible food and drink was the norm.

 

[dyle]

I don't think I've ever heard of a tournament where the organizers selling the only accessible food and drink was the norm.

It's pretty common for small events to run in bars or restaurants that sell food, which would now be prohibited for all unlicensed tournaments. Not having that option would result in venue fees increasing along with just being plain annoying for all attendees.

 

[Hailinel]

It's pretty common for small events to run in bars or restaurants that sell food, which would now be prohibited for all unlicensed tournaments. Not having that option would result in venue fees increasing along with just being plain annoying.

You're not actually paying the tournament for that food and drink, though. You, as a TO, are not making money from those sales, so they wouldn't be subject to this restriction.

 

[Decoyman]

Hokkaido's premiere series, Kamui, have now also managed to secure licensing.

 

[dyle]

You're not actually paying the tournament for that food and drink, though. You, as a TO, are not making money from those sales, so they wouldn't be subject to this restriction.

That's a generous interpretation of the rules which I do not believe is likely to be the case in practice. The line is "Tournaments involving the sale of food, beverages, or merchandise" which is intentionally written in an ambiguous way. It's safe to assume that any tournaments run at venues which sell food would no longer be able to advertise that fact, which would result in increased venue fees, on top of the fact that the no sponsorship rules would likely prohibit any related advertisements for the venue. Every local I've ever been to has taken place at a bar which sells food, which I've usually taken advantage of, which would be prohibited under these rules.. Those locals would now have to apply with a license with Nintendo in order to run the same tournaments.

 

[Hailinel]

That's a generous interpretation of the rules which I do not believe is likely to be the case in practice. The line is "Tournaments involving the sale of food, beverages, or merchandise" which is intentionally written in an ambiguous way.

Again, there's a difference between food and drink sold by the TO (i.e. I bring ten pizzas and sell them by the slice to attendees) versus food and drink sold by the venue the tournament is at (bar/restaurant, convention center food, arena concessions, the McDonald's next door, etc).

 

[Lugia667]

Hokkaido's premiere series, Kamui, have now also managed to secure licensing.

there does seem to be a big cultural difference going on in the response to be honest, I wonder if this is just something Japanese tournaments do.

 

[dyle]

Again, there's a difference between food and drink sold by the TO (i.e. I bring ten pizzas and sell them by the slice to attendees) versus food and drink sold by the venue the tournament is at (bar/restaurant, convention center food, arena concessions, the McDonald's next door, etc).

Potentially, but that's something that will have to be determined in practice as these new licensing rules are rolled out. As is the wording is intentionally ambiguous and written in a way that could allow them to crack down on any small event taking place at a venue which sells food. There is no way to know how these rules will be interpreted until we see them used in action.

 

[OctoSplattack]

It feels like gamers are freaking out about this more than tournament organizers from what I've seen so far, so I don't know how to react to any of this outside awkwardly shrugging and waiting to see what happens.

 

[Hailinel]

Potentially, but that's something that will have to be determined in practice as these new licensing rules are rolled out. As is the wording is intentionally ambiguous and written in a way that could allow them to crack down on any small event taking place at a venue which sells food. There is no way to know how these rules will be interpreted until we see them used in action.

Nintendo is not going to send goons to the local bar looking for money and kneecaps because people played Smash there.

 

[dyle]

Nintendo is not going to send goons to the local bar looking for money and kneecaps because people played Smash there.

Why would they reach out to the venue at all? They would reach out to the TOs who would be in violation of their licensing agreement, not the venue who is an unrelated third party.

 

[Hailinel]

Why would they reach out to the venue at all? They would reach out to the TOs who would be in violation of their licensing agreement, not the venue who is an unrelated third party.

Because the TOs didn't make money off of the food and drink. That's the whole point. The rules are regarding the tournament selling food, drink, and merch, not the venue.

 

[dyle]

Because the TOs didn't make money off of the food and drink. That's the whole point. The rules are regarding the tournament selling food, drink, and merch, not the venue.

But the TOs do benefit from the sales of food and drink at the venue as it subsidizes the event and reduces venues fees, which are now more important than in the past for unlicensed tournaments due to the capped entry fees. The clause is intentionally written in an ambiguous manner, as all good legal documents are, so that it can be used if needed.

 

[Hailinel]

But the TOs do benefit from the sales of food and drink at the venue as it subsidizes the event and reduces venues fees, which are now more important than in the past for unlicensed tournaments due to the capped entry fees. The clause is intentionally written in an ambiguous manner, as all good legal documents are, so that it can be used if needed.

Subsidizes in that it goes to the venue. The TOs do not make money off of it.

 

[dyle]

Subsidizes in that it goes to the venue. The TOs do not make money off of it.

Again that's just not what the line says. All it says is "Tournaments involving the sale of food, beverages, or merchandise" . If food is sold at a venue holding a tournament the event could be in violation of that clause. It is intentionally written in a vague way so that it can be used against events if they feel it is necessary. We cannot know how Nintendo might choose to use it until they attempt to do so.

 

[Hailinel]

Again that's just not what the line says. All it says is "Tournaments involving the sale of food, beverages, or merchandise" . If food is sold at a venue holding a tournament the event could be in violation of that clause. It is intentionally written in a vague way so that it can be used against events if they feel it is necessary. We cannot know how Nintendo might choose to use it until they attempt to do so.

"Tournaments involving the sale of".

The tournament itself. Not the venue.

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

Again that's just not what the line says. All it says is "Tournaments involving the sale of food, beverages, or merchandise" . It is intentionally written in a vague way so that it can be used against events if they feel it is necessary. We cannot know how Nintendo might choose to use it until they attempt to do so.

The most likely scenario is that nothing will happen and Nintendo won't bother doing any of that. If they wanted to outright ban small tournaments in bars, they'd have done so from the get go. There's no reason to set up some rules to play them like a trap card in YuGiOh.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

I understand that other companies have very similar guidelines, however if you have any awareness of Nintendo's past encounters with the smash and splatoon scenes, you'll know that Nintendo's involvement with these competitive communities never ends well. They are trying to control a scene they have no intent of actively trying to support.

There is little reward in Nintendo actively supporting the scene w/tons of risk. Even when they distance themselves they are still brought back by way of major controversy. This was inevitable especially as e-sports pushes to become something bigger meaning more laws are potentially passed & it becomes more of a business.

 

[Lugia667]

yeah listening to people who are ACTUALLY involved in organizing tournaments and stuff and the reaction is different from the smash fan rage I have been seeing

 

[Ahmed]

Hokkaido's premiere series, Kamui, have now also managed to secure licensing.

If it ends up easy getting a license, then big tournaments might be safe for now. Hopefully we'll get more good news.

 

[KC Hazel]

When it's a community known to be extremely toxic and hostile (not to mention some members are even worse than that), especially recently, I don't care that I'm "siding with a corporation". And no, I can't ignore it. I play online multiplayer and it's enjoyable when it's not filled with try-hards. And the competitive scene actually affects how developers make games.

So you just don't like when you play online and other people are better than you?

 

[KeijiKG]

As someone who thinks that competitive gaming is ruining video games, I am completely fine with these rules. There's no need for tournaments at all, especially from a children's video game company.

I don't participate in the scene but it just seems to me that Nintendo really just wants to put a bullet in Melee's competitive scene.

 

[Lugia667]

I don't participate in the scene but it just seems to me that Nintendo really just wants to put a bullet in Melee's competitive scene.

it's already been stated that this isn't dissimilar to what other companies are doing so....not really

 

[KeijiKG]

it's already been stated that this isn't dissimilar to what other companies are doing so....not really

Ah, well you've been helpful and informative to this discussion.

 

[SNP]

Moon Channel (lawyer talk about videogames) review the guidelines: