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Pre-Release Metroid Prime 4: Beyond - Pre-Release Discussion Thread (UPDATE: New Trailer)

When I see people referencing Doom or or whatever, I just assume it's shorthand for talking about great mobility. That's what I want in a 3D Metroid game. You know, like the 2D games had. Doom 2016/Eternal often got criticised by old guard Doom fans for ... playing like a platformer. But that's exactly how I want a Prime game to be. Greatly expanded mobility makes an awful lot of sense in a series with lock-on aiming and a lot of backtracking. It's One Weird Trick that would elevate Prime to something the 2D games always understood, and would solve problems with the moment to moment gameplay that the Prime games have repeatedly failed to address, giving us diminishing returns with each sequel. It's not about riding trends or chasing popularity - it's just about leveraging the unique properties the series has and running with it.

'Glory kills', or some other close range attack, make sense too, because Prime has a two-pronged issue with damage sponge enemies and an infinitely spammable long range pea shooter attack that just makes encounters incrediby dull sometimes. By encouraging the player to get close, you can get players to mix things up and add a risk/reward incentive. I think they could easily come up with something more interesting though - Super Metroid had a couple of great short range attacks where you charge up the beam and flip through enemies, or shift to ball mode to lay a bunch of bombs. Maybe Samus could suplex Space Pirates when she gets near them? 🤔
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
All the "Metroid should be like DOOM" posts are getting more tiring than the "Metroid doesn't sell!" posts :p
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In my defense, I've been campaigning against this mindset for like a year now but it's what people think of when they think good mobility in a first person game (or Titanfall and Mirror's Edge, which I would be just as grossed out to mention). I don't personally like the comparison. But seriously they should make the movement better and there's tons of first person games to draw from.

Glad to see my Metroid peeps can be nuanced though and not just take one part of my post and make fun of it, amirite ✊
 
I was hoping for significantly deeper stealth, horror, and combat mechanics with this game, but none of those are really possible with lock-on returning. Just hope there's some exploration innovations at this point, but I can't really think of any that would be game changing to take from the hundreds of Metroidvanias out there.

Just don't know why lock-on came back.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
In my defense, I've been campaigning against this mindset for like a year now but it's what people think of when they think good mobility in a first person game (or Titanfall and Mirror's Edge, which I would be just as grossed out to mention). I don't personally like the comparison. But seriously they should make the movement better and there's tons of first person games to draw from.

Glad to see my Metroid peeps can be nuanced though and not just take one part of my post and make fun of it, amirite ✊
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Just fyi there is a ledge grab in Prime 3 but it's barely used and only in specific spots where a green signalizer is there (think yellow paint but even less subtle :p)
 
WonderLuigi said:
I believe it's really hard to predict how this will play when we only had the initial area, even with the lock-on feature. Hopefully the next trailer clarifies that.
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Lock-on plus first-person plus non-reactive environments really dramatically limits the possibilities in terms of new mechanics.

It's really hard to come up with interesting shooting, stealth, platforming, or horror mechanics beyond what Prime 3 already had with this trio of limitations.
 
beaglor said:
When I see people referencing Doom or or whatever, I just assume it's shorthand for talking about great mobility. That's what I want in a 3D Metroid game. You know, like the 2D games had. Doom 2016/Eternal often got criticised by old guard Doom fans for ... playing like a platformer. But that's exactly how I want a Prime game to be. Greatly expanded mobility makes an awful lot of sense in a series with lock-on aiming and a lot of backtracking. It's One Weird Trick that would elevate Prime to something the 2D games always understood, and would solve problems with the moment to moment gameplay that the Prime games have repeatedly failed to address, giving us diminishing returns with each sequel. It's not about riding trends or chasing popularity - it's just about leveraging the unique properties the series has and running with it.
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Again, this. For Prime, the objective, or even "challenge", if you will, should be to always emphasize what will just make movement and exploration more fun. Such inevitably rolls over to the combat portion, as well, so, that's why it's worth discussing in the same vein.

Even as 3D Zelda changed up over time, I don't think it ever really lost this aspect of making exploration and movement feel "good" in a similar way that 2D Zelda does. Some of which were direct translations of what 2D Zelda did for ages, and a lot of which were inventions that were clearly its own designs to suit its own needs. Prime, being in first person, is far more limited in what it could realistically translate from its 2D counterparts. That just means my expectations would be suitably higher for them finding its own way, and embellishing on it further.

All that to say: Retro citing some of the more worthwhile ideas from the likes of modern Doom, or even Ultrakill, would make as much sense as the BOTW team going on record to be taking inspiration from Skyrim and Red Dead Redemption 2.

beaglor said:
'Glory kills', or some other close range attack, make sense too, because Prime has a two-pronged issue with damage sponge enemies and an infinitely spammable long range pea shooter attack that just makes encounters incrediby dull sometimes. By encouraging the player to get close, you can get players to mix things up and add a risk/reward incentive. I think they could easily come up with something more interesting though - Super Metroid had a couple of great short range attacks where you charge up the beam and flip through enemies, or shift to ball mode to lay a bunch of bombs. Maybe Samus could suplex Space Pirates when she gets near them? 🤔
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Or to fit even more with Metroid: you offer options for when threats opt to close the distance to Samus, themselves, or to fire away at her with superior numbers AND better firepower.

For example: A good portion of Metroid's bestiary likes to charge/fly head on at Samus. This is why MercurySteam's Melee Counter was such a fine idea for SR and Dread. I don't know if Retro wants to do something similar, but it couldn't hurt. Better still if Samus can just use her Melee Counter to "reflect" projectiles back at enemies. Especially since we'll be dealing with a 3D space, and threats can come from more angles.

Samus also has a side hop in Prime, so, maybe Bayonetta-style perfect dodges with their own "Witch Time" equivalent are an option. Bring back functional equivalents of Flash Shifting and Phase Drifting. If "time manipulation" is going to be the name of the game for Beyond, then by all means, go NUTS with the idea.

I will continue to reiterate that Samus can and definitely should be one of Nintendo's more "stylish" heroes. Just let at least some of that energy from those cutscenes translate to gameplay!
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
All the "Metroid should be like DOOM" posts are getting more tiring than the "Metroid doesn't sell!" posts :p
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Dark Cloud said:
Tired of “Metroid should do like Halo or Crysis or whatever”. Retro should do whatever they can come up with on their own. They wanted to give people who’ve waited decades for Metroid Prime….Metroid Prime. Nothing is wrong with that. And we’ll see what more there is.
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I genuinely do not get this mentality. All games take inspiration from each other so why not Metroid Prime? Taking inspiration from DOOM, Halo or Crysis does not suddenly make Metroid Prime not Metroid Prime, the changes need to be at the core gameplay loop of exploration -> combat -> puzzles for it to not become Metroid Prime.

AngryAlchemist said:
In my defense, I've been campaigning against this mindset for like a year now but it's what people think of when they think good mobility in a first person game (or Titanfall and Mirror's Edge, which I would be just as grossed out to mention). I don't personally like the comparison. But seriously they should make the movement better and there's tons of first person games to draw from.

Glad to see my Metroid peeps can be nuanced though and not just take one part of my post and make fun of it, amirite ✊
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What is the issue about taking inspiration from DOOM, Titanfall and Mirror's Edge that grosses you out?
 
First person with lock on is largely just a bad design choice in this era. If the series wants to focus on platforming and exploration and views combat and horror elements as irrelevant, then third person would allow them to do way more and would sell a lot better too. Pretty baffling move to do first person but make aiming irrelevant.
 
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AngryAlchemist said:
In my defense, I've been campaigning against this mindset for like a year now but it's what people think of when they think good mobility in a first person game (or Titanfall and Mirror's Edge, which I would be just as grossed out to mention). I don't personally like the comparison. But seriously they should make the movement better and there's tons of first person games to draw from.

Glad to see my Metroid peeps can be nuanced though and not just take one part of my post and make fun of it, amirite ✊
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space_dragon said:
Completely disagree, tbh. At least that part of the discussion is entertaining. I like fantasizing about new combat and movement options. (Though I have ZERO issues with a traditional Prime experience.) Sales talk is just boring and often regurgitated.
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HX711 said:
I genuinely do not get this mentality. All games take inspiration from each other so why not Metroid Prime? Taking inspiration from DOOM, Halo or Crysis does not suddenly make Metroid Prime not Metroid Prime, the changes need to be at the core gameplay loop of exploration -> combat -> puzzles for it to not become Metroid Prime.


What is the issue about taking inspiration from DOOM, Titanfall and Mirror's Edge that grosses you out?
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I was half kidding with my post. It doesn't bother me at all that people express their opinions whether I agree with them or not. The thing is though, the faster movement is, the harder it is to focus on carefully observing your environment, which to me, is the whole point of Metroid Prime. It's a slower paced game about observation and exploration. I do think there is room to make movement and combat more fluid, but they have to find the right balance.

I will say though, I don't get people comparing the two at all (I see it a lot on the other site, not here really). I just did a replay of 2016 and it is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum as far as FPS games go.
 
WonderLuigi said:
I've seen some platforming sections in Eternal that remind me a lot of Prime but I haven't played it to actually comment on that. But I hope we get some of this :p
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Especially since some of these dudes were responsible for two very solid DKC games, my expectations for Prime 4's platforming are admittedly pretty high.

They should be designing levels that would make the stuff in Eternal look positively pedestrian in comparison.
 
Mmmm I get some of the desires in the last couple of posts just for the sake of gamefeel. Ledge grabbing and a melee option for instance.

But I can’t really say lock-on is a negative for me. I like that Prime isn’t focused on the traditional FPS combat where aiming is important. The series has demonstrated that it can create awesome boss fights that lean more toward being memorable Zelda-like “puzzle bosses” over a twitchy test of action combat and I appreciate that.
 
Phendrift said:
Mmmm I get some of the desires in the last couple of posts just for the sake of gamefeel. Ledge grabbing and a melee option for instance.

But I can’t really say lock-on is a negative for me. I like that Prime isn’t focused on the traditional FPS combat where aiming is important. The series has demonstrated that it can create awesome boss fights that lean more toward being memorable Zelda-like “puzzle bosses” over a twitchy test of action combat and I appreciate that.
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I mean, you can just make the game third-person if you're not going to have aiming be relevant.

It's very easy to make a shooter/platformer these days in third-person.

First-person just makes the game much more unpopular and much harder to develop complex platforming with. It's a very odd call.

You're just intentionally killing off all Japanese sales and a LOT of non-Japanese sales (single player FPSs are at their nadir in popularity) with no real game design benefits.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I was hoping for significantly deeper stealth, horror, and combat mechanics with this game, but none of those are really possible with lock-on returning. Just hope there's some exploration innovations at this point, but I can't really think of any that would be game changing to take from the hundreds of Metroidvanias out there.

Just don't know why lock-on came back.
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Stealth was the worst thing added to the metroid series, I cannot think of a worse mechanic to add for a metroidvania game and I really do not want to see it back.
 
ILikeFeet said:
You should at least try with your concern trolling
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The idea that I can't express bewilderment at how they seem to have included really dated mechanics that don't seem to help with the series' unpopularity at all without "concern trolling" is really weird to be honest.

I'm trying to come up with any reason for why lock-on is back and it's still first-person and I can't really. If Tanabe et al do not want combat or aiming to matter much in the series and want it to be more of a platformer, they should have just made it third-person. It would be more popular AND allow more interesting mechanics. I just don't get why they picked a choice that seems much more unpopular and much more creatively limiting.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The idea that I can't express bewilderment at how they seem to have included really dated mechanics that don't seem to help with the series' unpopularity at all without "concern trolling" is really weird to be honest.

I'm trying to come up with any reason for why lock-on is back and it's still first-person and I can't really. If Tanabe et al do not want combat or aiming to matter much in the series and want it to be more of a platformer, they should have just made it third-person. It would be more popular AND allow more interesting mechanics. I just don't get why they picked a choice that seems much more unpopular and much more creatively limiting.
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I don't think you're concern trolling.

I do think constantly construing your own disappointment with what has been shown to the developers apparently choosing the less popular and creatively stimying way of doing things is becoming less of a critique and more of a projection.

I don't have a problem with you beating this particular drum, mind.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
First person is not an "outdated mechanic", it just isn't as popular with some people lol.
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First person is certainly not dated, but first-person with lock-on seems hyper limiting and to offer no real benefits. Aiming and better environmental awareness are the main reasons for first-person but like... There doesn't seem to be aiming and Metroid Prime invented detective vision and is bringing detective vision back.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
First person is certainly not dated, but first-person with lock-on seems hyper limiting and to offer no real benefits. Aiming and better environmental awareness are the main reasons for first-person but like... There doesn't seem to be aiming and Metroid Prime invented detective vision and is bringing detective vision back.
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I don't think lock-on is a hyper limited approach to FPS combat or has no real benefits. It's not an inherently bad design, it's just different from the norm. Lock-on worked well in the Prime game's brand of combat with strafe dodges and weak point targeting.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I mean, you can just make the game third-person if you're not going to have aiming be relevant.

It's very easy to make a shooter/platformer these days in third-person.

First-person just makes the game much more unpopular and much harder to develop complex platforming with. It's a very odd call.

You're just intentionally killing off all Japanese sales and a LOT of non-Japanese sales (single player FPSs are at their nadir in popularity) with no real game design benefits.
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I mean if they wanted to make it third person I would’ve been open to that.

But your “bewilderment” being presented as fact is a bit much. By all available metrics these are highly acclaimed and beloved games, clearly people don’t view lock on as this unsalvageable design sin that you’re painting it as.
 
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Ricimer said:
I don't think lock-on is a hyper limited approach to FPS combat or has no real benefits. It's not an inherently bad design, it's just different from the norm. Lock-on worked well in the Prime game's brand of combat with strafe dodges and weak point targeting.
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If you're just going to do circle-strafing, you don't need to be an FPS is the entire point. Making it first-person gives zero combat benefits while making the platforming more limited and making the game a lot less popular. I don't understand the choice at all. It doesn't seem to have any advantage from a creative or commercial perspective.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
If you're just going to do circle-strafing, you don't need to be an FPS is the entire point. Making it first-person gives zero combat benefits while making the platforming more limited and making the game a lot less popular. I don't understand the choice at all. It doesn't seem to have any advantage from a creative or commercial perspective.
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Everyone knew that a game called Metroid Prime would be first person. It's time to stop.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
If you're just going to do circle-strafing, you don't need to be an FPS is the entire point. Making it first-person gives zero combat benefits while making the platforming more limited and making the game a lot less popular. I don't understand the choice at all. It doesn't seem to have any advantage from a creative or commercial perspective.
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From a commercial perspective it's beneficial from making the game Metroid Prime. If it's not FPS it's not Metroid Prime, it's something new then.
 
Phendrift said:
Mmmm I get some of the desires in the last couple of posts just for the sake of gamefeel. Ledge grabbing and a melee option for instance.

But I can’t really say lock-on is a negative for me. I like that Prime isn’t focused on the traditional FPS combat where aiming is important. The series has demonstrated that it can create awesome boss fights that lean more toward being memorable Zelda-like “puzzle bosses” over a twitchy test of action combat and I appreciate that.
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Ricimer said:
I don't think lock-on is a hyper limited approach to FPS combat or has no real benefits. It's not an inherently bad design, it's just different from the norm. Lock-on worked well in the Prime game's brand of combat with strafe dodges and weak point targeting.
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Lock on is an outdated mechanic that should have been removed in favor of strong aim assist to free up the shoulder button. For example, the button could have been used for a weapon wheel, grapple lasso or even better an omnidirectional dash. In addition, it instead of lowering the skill floor reduces the skill ceiling of the game, since now you cannot have targetable weakpoints that raises the skill ceiling like headshots or other types of weakpoints (like in DOOM Eternal).

Furthermore puzzle like bosses/enemies are not inherent to lock on it is a separate design philosophy. And again, DOOM Eternal manages to be all about strafe dodging and weakpoint targeting without the use of lock on.
 
I think at the end of the day Retro just wanted to bring Prime back for Prime 4. They know it’s been gone for like 17 years and probably didn’t want to disappoint fans with a different gameplay after waiting so long. I believe this was their mindset from the beginning to stick to the formula. It’ll sell the best anyways because of being on Switch (and Switch 2 imo).
 
HX711 said:
Lock on is an outdated mechanic that should have been removed in favor of strong aim assist to free up the shoulder button. For example, the button could have been used for a weapon wheel, grapple lasso or even better an omnidirectional dash. In addition, it instead of lowering the skill floor reduces the skill ceiling of the game, since now you cannot have targetable weakpoints that raises the skill ceiling like headshots or other types of weakpoints (like in DOOM Eternal).

Furthermore puzzle like bosses/enemies are not inherent to lock on it is a separate design philosophy. And again, DOOM Eternal manages to be all about strafe dodging and weakpoint targeting without the use of lock on.
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I haven't played the new Dooms so can't speak for them. But I can't imagine their frantic combat being enjoyable on a controller. Traditional FPS control schemes suck on controller, KB+M is objectively superior. Metroid Prime gets away with FPS on console because of its lock-on system and slow-paced gameplay. They're deliberately designed around console controllers. Most traditional FPS are designed around PC, or just inherently play better with KB+M because they're using the derivative mainstream FPS control scheme.

The original games already made use of their control schemes by mapping its weapon wheel (beam swapping) to the freed-up C-Stick. If the games used a traditional console FPS control scheme with dual analogue aiming it wouldn't have been able to do that. The MP1 Remake's solution for beam swapping in its modern control scheme (having to hold down a button + right stick) is already way more clunky than the GameCube version.

Prime 3 already did a grapple lasso with its control scheme. I don't see how that or an omnidirectional dash would be impossible with a lock-on system. There's more buttons than ever on a modern controller, MP1 Remake's modern controls didn't use most of them especially L2 and R2. They can find a way.
 
Zeal543 said:
You may ask what prime 4 is doing not changing up the combat, whereas what I asked was why Dread did nothing to change up exploration
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I really hope Prime 4 allows for non-linear progression like M1, SM, and ZM. Dread being mostly linear was my biggest disappointment next to the music.

Just let us collect some upgrades and do some bosses/areas in different orders. My ideal Metroid would be one where people have a bunch of different paths towards the ending.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
It’s extremely hard to do precise weak point stuff or many enemies on screen for a game built around lock-on in first person. Horror elements with depth are nearly impossible with lock-on. Stealth and platforming are hard in general in first person, but non reactive environments make it even harder to make compelling mechanics.
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OwO, you already played the whole game and know exactly how it's going to play and feel ?! I believe you're working at Retro Studios because I don't believe you'd know so much about the game if you weren't working for them. I mean, you're always stating things that none of us have any way of knowing, and especially stating things like it's the ultimate truth. It must be true.

I can't believe they let you work while shitting constantly on their game for seemingly not a single good reason, but to each their own.

I mean, I hope the game designers at Retro Studios aren't morons who can't do shit because it would be very rude of the studio to employ idiots who never played any video game and have zero creative idea. Nintendo would be very angry at them and ask all their employees to point at Retro Studios and say "BOOH !", to make sure the entire studio feel embarassed.

I hope they give the game to Activision and put a lot of DLCs and microtransactions because else the game won't sell enough and that will be very, very bad if it doesn't sell 10 millions, for some reason. I also hope Samus is voiced by a talented actress that have good reputation or else the game won't have enough appeal to gamers and it won't sell 20 millions and that would be VERY, VERY -insert french swears- BAD for NINTENDO, BECAUSE REASONS.

I can't believe they're not going to put Elliot Page to voice Sylux. That would've been a massive push towards LGBT community and the game would've sold 64 millions but they won't and it sucks, Nintendo is so stupid, this game is doomed.

See ? I can do it too.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
All the "Metroid should be like DOOM" posts are getting more tiring than the "Metroid doesn't sell!" posts :p
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If wanting Metroid to be like Doom is wrong, I don't wanna be right!
beaglor said:
When I see people referencing Doom or or whatever, I just assume it's shorthand for talking about great mobility. That's what I want in a 3D Metroid game. You know, like the 2D games had. Doom 2016/Eternal often got criticised by old guard Doom fans for ... playing like a platformer. But that's exactly how I want a Prime game to be. Greatly expanded mobility makes an awful lot of sense in a series with lock-on aiming and a lot of backtracking. It's One Weird Trick that would elevate Prime to something the 2D games always understood, and would solve problems with the moment to moment gameplay that the Prime games have repeatedly failed to address, giving us diminishing returns with each sequel. It's not about riding trends or chasing popularity - it's just about leveraging the unique properties the series has and running with it.

'Glory kills', or some other close range attack, make sense too, because Prime has a two-pronged issue with damage sponge enemies and an infinitely spammable long range pea shooter attack that just makes encounters incrediby dull sometimes. By encouraging the player to get close, you can get players to mix things up and add a risk/reward incentive. I think they could easily come up with something more interesting though - Super Metroid had a couple of great short range attacks where you charge up the beam and flip through enemies, or shift to ball mode to lay a bunch of bombs. Maybe Samus could suplex Space Pirates when she gets near them? 🤔
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You get it!!! 🙏 🙌 Thank you!!!
 
BozPaggs said:
Just gonna cross post this from the other Prime 4 thread
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It can only do so much when everyone in this thread including my ancestors keeps quoting the only person who's posting constant shit all the time.
All you see is :

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
"I thought you said you'd stop posting about this ?"

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
But people are answering, so I answer too.

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
Yeah but maybe you should stop, it's getting old.

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
Yeah but the game won't sell because I'm saying this right now and I know better, apparently.

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
No.

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
Believe me, I know better than all the Retro Studios employee how the game should be, and they worked on the game for 5 years. Imagine that !

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
I don't think that's true. Maybe you should stop doing that.

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
Ok. Oh by the way, having a lock-on feature is bad because it will "lock" the game combat system and it won't be improved because it's difficult and apparently Retro Studios can't innovate.

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
For the love of Kraid's anus, please stop.

"X quoted the person you're ignoring".
Yeah but...


Question to mods : is this fun ?
 
Broadly doom inspired movement (probably not as hectic or quite as fast) would make exploration more engaging. If anything Dread already feels pretty great, just getting near parity in 3d would be very nice. Of course Prime is an atmosphere piece first and foremost, so particularly zany or hectic platforming or stuff like monkey bar swinging or lots of jump pads probably isn't the best fit. (Not that I wouldn't take it in different 3d Metroid game).

I'd really like full fat Shinesparking in Prime. Even if its an end game ability.

Doom inspired combat might be a little iffy. Prime combat is relatively slow by choice. And I don't see anything approaching glory kill mechanics or tonnes of weapon switching come in. The (somewhat optional) dread counter would probably be actiony enough I feel. Enemies just need less HP bloat. If anything I'd like more strategic weapon choices, maybe survival oriented like say Bioshock, get some traps or landmines in, some slow poison (Phazon?) stuff. A limited hold shield/reflector on a weapon charge up. Utility and survival based Stuff like that.

But I really don't want ammo grinding to be a focus ever again. Its awful in Prime 2 (Although part of that is its faster to grind because of the bloated enemy HP excessively designed around the weaknesses). The base kit being strong and fun enough, or maybe slowly auto-recovering ammo to a minimum amount (10-20%), might fix it.

I think the lock on works reasonably well. And you can still aim with twin sticks+ gyro anyway even fi the camera is locked. Heck you don't really need to lock on often, if you so choose in remake.

I'm wondering what kind of visors could be good in Prime 4. X ray and heat are very good and I could see either come back (x ray in 3 so fun). Maybe Lidar could be engaging.

I'd really like map pins to help remember backtracking spots. And some level of non-linearity without crazy sequence breaking would be nice.

Also if we HAVE to have Chozo artifact style end game stuff again (we don't), I'd really like for it to be closer to 3, where you are almost guaranteed to have enough power cells to finish it off, (unless you waste a bunch on other doors first...maybe don't make that a possibility).

Hopefully whatever the beyond gimmick ends up being will spice up or enhance the core gameplay loop a bit.
 
I'm in favor of expanded mobility and combat options. It's a thought I've had in the past, and started strongly considering again after Dread.
Dread put a lot of effort into developing and balancing the combat, which naturally made me wonder if the Prime series could also grow in that area. I think it's important for Prime to grow beyond what it already is. Ideally a new game gives you more than just...more of the same.

I'm not at all offended by the Doom comparisons, I think that's a good example of a series that managed to expand its gameplay successfully while remaining authentic to what came before, and the new Doom games themselves were partly inspired by Metroid Prime to begin with. A whole lot of Doom 2016 is ripped straight from Prime, so naturally people will make comparisons. And then Eternal took it a step beyond that into new territory. It would not be a bad thing for that exchange of ideas to go both ways. I'd love if Prime put as much effort into enemy variety and personality as Doom Eternal did.

Which is not to say that I literally think Prime must have glory kills or grenade launchers, I'm not being that literal. I don't ever want to worry too much about ammo in Prime. But there are aspects of the 2D metroid games that I think have yet to be satisfyingly adapted in 3D, and abilities that have underutilized potential. Maybe they could introduce some form of Dread's melee, make visor and beam types require more strategic use during combat, expand the uses of the grapple beam into both exploration and combat, or come up with some fun combos like grapple+ball=ball slam, or charge beam+grapple=power punch, or boost ball+unmorph=shoulder bash. There could be a lot of fun in combining samus' abilities in new ways that add variety to combat and exploration, while still fitting into the Prime series foundations.

The way Dread characterized Samus even felt tonally similar to Doom 2016 and I think most (not all) people enjoyed that. I wouldn't mind if Prime Samus got a little bit of that spiciness too.

These are the sorts of things that would excite me in a new gameplay trailer, and partly why the reveal was a little underwhelming. I've already played Metroid Prime, show me Metroid Prime Four.
 
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Zeal543 said:
True but I wouldn't consider a simplification something new, exploration in the 2D games post super has just been super but worse. Also doubt the linearity/boxing in of dread moved more units.
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Ehh, I would guess Dread not allowing players to get lost probably increased completion rates and improved word of mouth.

That's obviously very hard to actually determine empirically though.
 
Steve said:
Metroid is a neat franchise...

How we feeling, it'll release alongside 3D Mario for a launch exclusive for the Switch 2, but it'll be cross gen or a summer release.
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3D Mario at launch for the Switch 2 in March then Metroid Prime 4 1-2 month(s) after as a cross-gen title.
 
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