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News Layoffs hit Bungie. Marathon and Destiny 2: The Final Shape both delayed (New Report: Sony could take full control if revenue goals not met)

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Missing targets by 45%? How the fuck did they fumble that hard? I can't imagine being the people who lost their jobs over at Naughty Dog because Bungie told them their live service game sucked when Bungie's own game is dying like this.
 
carbvan said:
45% REVENUE DROP????
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Well the bloomberg article says that they are ”projected to miss revenue targets”. So revenue could be up for all we know. Probably not down 45% anyways. But they are probably in a tight spot cash flow wise if they counted on so much more revenue.

If think we increasingly see that GaaS is a very fragile business model, contrary to the belief that made it popular.
 
Christer said:
Well the bloomberg article says that they are ”projected to miss revenue targets”. So revenue could be up for all we know. Probably not down 45% anyways. But they are probably in a tight spot cash flow wise if they counted on so much more revenue.

If think we increasingly see that GaaS is a very fragile business model, contrary to the belief that made it popular.
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I edited this comment like immediately after I posted it, I noticed how I phrased it wrong and tried to change it. Honestly surprised it didn't update quick enough. Anyways yeah I get what you're saying and I 100% agree. Either way, the Destiny playerbase really did vote with their wallets and all it did was make Bungie let go of their senior staff to make up the difference. Absolutely evil company. This is some Activision Blizzard tier stuff.
 
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They were coming off The Witch Queen expansion which was a really massive success and they hoped to continue that with Lightfall. It was the complete opposite, Lightfall was very badly received. But yeah, oof at massive missed forecast. and noticed they didn't boast about the final shape pre orders
 
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Missing projections be 45% sure sounds like something that would be on management and executives rather than rank and file employees. Were any of them let go, or are they only responsible for the successes?
 
carbvan said:
Missing targets by 45%? How the fuck did they fumble that hard? I can't imagine being the people who lost their jobs over at Naughty Dog because Bungie told them their live service game sucked when Bungie's own game is dying like this.
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Destiny is fucking awful rn, apparently
Hailinel said:
In reality, it was likely Bungie and Sony. It was just Bungie that picked which people to let go
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Sony had given Bungie 2 billion so they wouldn't have to do layoffs fairly recently. It's all on Bungle
 
Hailinel said:
[Citation Needed]

A budget allocation like that doesn't mean at all that Sony and Bungie weren't talking about how to plan layoffs behind closed doors.
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This ascribes a degree of micromanagement on Sony's part that I find to be unrealistic and baseless. All of the information we're receiving indicates that the layoffs are wholly Bungie's own failings rather than being caused by Sony mandating specific actions.
 
InsaneZero said:
This ascribes a degree of micromanagement on Sony's part that I find to be unrealistic and baseless. All of the information we're receiving indicates that the layoffs are wholly Bungie's own failings rather than being caused by Sony mandating specific actions.
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My dude, when I was laid off, this level of micromanagement was absolutely used.
 
Hailinel said:
My dude, when I was laid off, this level of micromanagement was absolutely used.
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I don't think bringing personal anecdotes is a good idea unless there's an concrete correlation to what's going on at Bungie.
 
InsaneZero said:
I don't think bringing personal anecdotes is a good idea unless there's an concrete correlation to what's going on at Bungie.
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I don't think it can be ruled out just out of hand, either.

Sony wasn't caught with their pants down by this. They knew what was happening and I see no reason to doubt their involvement.
 
Hailinel said:
I don't think it can be ruled out just out of hand, either.

Sony wasn't caught with their pants down by this. They knew what was happening and I see no reason to doubt their involvement.
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I'm ruling it out entirely because it's not based on anything that's been reported. Sony's involvement in the matter is entirely speculative, and all of the information provided thus far indicates that the fault lies primarily on Bungie's management.
 
InsaneZero said:
I'm ruling it out entirely because it's not based on anything that's been reported. Sony's involvement in the matter is entirely speculative, and all of the information provided thus far indicates that the fault lies primarily on Bungie's management.
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Bungie is a Sony subsidiary. Again, why would Sony not be involved?
 
carbvan said:
wow so this is just bungie higher ups stealing shares from the people who do the actual work? actually disgusting. i'll be sure to steer clear of all projects of theirs for the foreseeable future, not that i was a destiny player to begin with but i know some folks who were interested in Marathon.
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The shares are unvested so nothing has been stolen. I see that the general read is that this is what the employees got as payment for the sale of Bungie, and that they're being stolen from, but vesting is for retention deals that are on top of a deal so the talent doesn't just leave after the sale. That can be ended early if it is no longer mutually beneficial. Vesting is meant to retain employees the employer actually wants to retain. Not that it’ll make anyone happier but just thought I’d explain this.
 
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Hailinel said:
Bungie is a Sony subsidiary. Again, why would Sony not be involved?
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Missing revenue targets by 45% is such a dramatic underperformance that Bungie would've needed to make some painful cuts to expenses to be financially solvent regardless of whether they were independent or not. Sony obviously can't afford to ignore this emergency from their $3.6 billion dollar investment, but nothing in the reporting provides any indication of just how directly involved they were in the actual layoffs.
 
InsaneZero said:
Missing revenue targets by 45% is such a dramatic underperformance that Bungie would've needed to make some painful cuts to expenses to be financially solvent regardless of whether they were independent or not. Sony obviously can't afford to ignore this emergency from their $3.6 billion dollar investment, but nothing in the reporting provides any indication of just how directly involved they were in the actual layoffs.
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OK. It doesn't say they weren't, either. You're being weirdly defensive of Sony in this.
 
Hailinel said:
OK. It doesn't say they weren't, either. You're being weirdly defensive of Sony in this.
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My issue is that this baseless speculation about Sony's involvement in the matter ultimately distracts from the fact that the responsibility for the layoffs falls squarely onto Bungie's management decisions alone.
 
Hailinel said:
And I'm saying I doubt that's really the case.
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I believe that understanding the actual truth of the matter is ultimately more important and more valuable to discussing a news event than unfounded theorycrafting. There isn't any particular aspect of this story that would be clarified by assuming that Sony was tangibly culpable for this situation.
 
InsaneZero said:
I believe that understanding the actual truth of the matter is ultimately more important and more valuable to discussing a news event than unfounded theorycrafting. There isn't any particular aspect of this story that would be clarified by assuming that Sony was tangibly culpable for this situation.
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It's not unfounded. It's something corporations do.
 
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100 people lost their job and people are arguing whether this was the fault of Sony or Bungie, a Sony subsidiary. Please do some soul searching.
 
Bungie has finally spoken and it's exactly how you expected

Bungie.net

www.bungie.net www.bungie.net

This has been one of the most difficult weeks in our studio’s history, as we’ve parted ways with people we respect and admire. We’ve spent this week supporting one another, including those who are at the studio, as well as friends and colleagues who no longer are.

We want to acknowledge the feedback and concerns you have about Lightfall and recent Seasons, as well as your responses to the reveal of The Final Shape. We know we have lost a lot of your trust. Destiny needs to surprise and delight. We haven’t done this enough and that’s going to change.

To us the path forward is clear: We need to make The Final Shape an unforgettable Destiny experience. We want to build something that will be regarded alongside the best games we’ve ever made – a fitting culmination that honors the journey we’ve been on together for the past ten years. Forsaken, The Witch Queen, and The Taken King – these are the standard bearers we aim to live up to.

We are intensely focused on exceeding your expectations for The Final Shape. Destiny 2 has more than 650 dedicated teammates pouring all their energy and expertise into delivering this epic moment and its subsequent Episodes.

In the weeks ahead, you’ll be hearing more from us about what’s next on the short-term horizon, beginning with our next Season in late November. Afterwards, we’ll begin to unpack our team’s bigger, bolder, and brighter vision for The Final Shape, as well as the bridge we plan to build to take us all out of this Darkness and into the Light.

See you starside,

The Destiny 2 Dev Team
 
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Zemya said:
Is this the worst year for game devs or did we just start hearing consistently about layoffs?
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So far there are ~247k tech layoffs this year, ~6500 in gamedev. Last year there were ~164k tech layoffs, but I haven't seen any cumulative numbers for games layoffs in 2022. There probably were far fewer last year than this year, just judging by the tech numbers--and with how December and January typically are, it's going to get worse.
 
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Galgavias said:
Sony's operating profit has been down for a while now, despite their record revenue, which usually indicates that their costs are massive. All these layoffs from them recently are basically their way of jettisoning some of these costs to maximise their upcoming financials. It really, really sucks that companies can't just be happy with earning a lot of money each year, but hey, the joys of endless growth capitalism everyone.

Even leaving aside the human cost of these moves, it's undoubtedly going to have an impact on the quality of these games. I mean if Salvatori has gone, that's going to be a huge gap. The man gave Destiny so much character with its amazing soundtrack.
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but hey, whatever its (not) going hit that 25mil goal.

it kinda sucks cause i grew up with sony but this gen killed it, in a really really bad way
 
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Dardan Sandiego said:
100 people lost their job and people are arguing whether this was the fault of Sony or Bungie, a Sony subsidiary. Please do some soul searching.
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so sony or the company that answers to sony's beck and call

surely sony has nothing to do with it.

this situation sucks, defending either of these companies sucks.
 
New report out. It seems that if Bungie can't meet its revenue goals, then Sony can take full control of the company

www.ign.com

Bungie Devs Say Atmosphere Is ‘Soul-Crushing’ Amid Layoffs, Cuts, and Fear of Total Sony Takeover - IGN

One month after a major round of layoffs impacted roughly 100 Bungie employees of 1,200, those remaining at the Destiny developer say the cuts, as well as other cost-cutting measures, came alongside an apparent scramble by studio leadership to avoid a total Sony takeover.
www.ign.com www.ign.com
 
While the exact details of Sony’s deal to acquire Bungie remain unknown to the public or employees, sources say they were told by leaders that the current split board structure is contingent on Bungie meeting certain financial goals. If Bungie falls short of certain financial thresholds by too great an amount, Sony is allowed to dissolve the existing board and take full control of the company.
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This was most likely their aim from the very beginning. Not like Sony is different from other companies.
 
Others said they were rebuffed repeatedly and discouraged from even discussing the layoffs whenever they tried to ask questions. Employees in one department recalled a post-layoffs Q&A session where a department head was asked if leadership taking salary cuts to prevent layoffs had been considered, only to respond that Bungie was “not that type of company.”
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What a trash response to that kind of question. Leadership are the ones who have got them in their current predicament but of course can’t be expected to suffer any consequences for doing so.
 
I just have to wonder what the hell went wrong that they missed their goal by 45%? Is Destiny 2 just in a really bad shape right now or were the goals just unrealistic (or was it a mix of both)?
 
oomoepoo said:
I just have to wonder what the hell went wrong that they missed their goal by 45%? Is Destiny 2 just in a really bad shape right now or were the goals just unrealistic (or was it a mix of both)?
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Both, since they're both ultimately caused by Bungie management not being tethered to reality.
 
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What are the chances Bungie pivots back to the Halo model of making offline single player experiences alongside multiplayer?
 
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Buried In Time said:
What are the chances Bungie pivots back to the Halo model of making offline single player experiences alongside multiplayer?
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Sony's been gunning for liveservice titles and Bungie was seemingly a part of that plan. I would not expect them to suddenly tell Bungie to pivot and make Balo.
 
I'm not saying they should abandon live service altogether, but clearly the success of their current strategy is waning. Trying to maintain player engagement on a single game for eight years is a tall order and long running games can be intimidating for newcomers. Perhaps more frequent differentiated releases is the answer.
 
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Between Sony apparently having to shelve their TLOU multiplayer game and now Destiny imploding, their big live service push seems like its in bad shape before it even got off the ground

Like, they have how many live service games planned, and things already aren't looking too great? The next couple years could be ugly for them
 
Destiny could be PlayStation's Halo or Call Of Duty. Every three years or so we get a new fifteen to twenty hour single player campaign paired with robust live service multiplayer modes.
 
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Buried In Time said:
I'm not saying they should abandon live service altogether, but clearly the success of their current strategy is waning. Trying to maintain player engagement for a single game for eight years is a tall order and long running games can be intimidating for newcomers. Perhaps more frequent differentiated releases is the answer.
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From my loose understanding, this is largely a management issue. There were were things like pricing certain items in shops or nerfing certain things that some devs voiced wouldn't be receptive to players but management ignored it. Also, they just overestimated thier prospective performance. They assumed that Lightfall would do just as well if not better than Witch Queen. Lightfall was not well recieved.

It may need to go like with 343 industries. When they laid people off, some management was included. Halo Infinitie MP is now in a better spot. But my understanding is Sony can't just go in and let management go due to the contract....but if Bungie keeps on its current trajectory, the contract will allow it.
 
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Buried In Time said:
Destiny could be PlayStation's Halo or Call Of Duty. Every three years or so we get a new fifteen to twenty hour single player campaign paired with robust live service multiplayer modes.
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Better yet, Marathon, the precursor to one of the titles you mentioned.
 
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