Discussion Just some thoughts from an amab non-binary person going through HRT with blockers.

[Marce-chan]

Hey y'all, how are you doing?

I'm Marce and I'm a non-binary dysphoric person that started blocking testosterone in October 2022(it's insane how it's been 9 months already).

I started with 25mg of Spironolactone. It's an entry dose. However, the LGBT ambulatory of my university kinda closed, so I could never see the doctor again to show the hormone blood concentration to adjust the dose.

In the peak of desperation, I doubled the dose to 50mg(which is still an entry dose) and started taking Diane 35(2mg of cyproterone acetate + 0,035mg of ethynilestradiol, but I divided the pills in 2) for about a month. The effects however were too fast. Feminizing effects I mean, not the demasculinization I wanted. So I stopped taking it.

Thankfully, I found a manipulation drugstore that could make cyproterone acetate at a reasonable price. So I'm now taking 10mg of cyproterone acetate, a progesterone that's also a more potent testosterone antagonist. The doctor had prescribed 25mg, but it'd be too expensive for me.

Lately my dysphoria has been getting worse, mainly towards my face and body hair. I took a pic of myself as drag and even tho everyone told me I was pretty, I wouldn't believe it and think I'm ugly or that everyone would see me as a caricature.

What I wanna ask is: is any of the beautiful non-binary Fami community on blockers or on non traditional transition? How do y'all deal with dysphoria? How do y'all deal with society always binarizing us or wanting unachievable androgyny? Any tips to look more androgynous or clothing advice?

Thank you all for reading until here and sorry for the somewhat depressing tone of the thread!

 

[Tye]

I have no experience with HRT myself (mainly because, as far as I’m aware at least, there’s not really an option for me that would give me my desired results), but I’m in the same boat as you being an AMAB non-binary (specifically agender) person with dysphoria, specifically towards facial hair and most body hair, so I feel you. Facial hair in particular is super frustrating to deal with since you can’t just cover it up and you have to deal with it all the time. Shaving it is an issue for me too because I can’t shave every day or else my face breaks out, so the best I can do is once, maybe twice a week and I just have to deal with having the facial hair for the rest of the time, which I hate… >_<

I’m curious, though—what exactly are you looking for out of HRT if you don’t mind me asking, and have you been getting some of those results? I’ve considered HRT, but I also really don’t want the feminizing effects like growing boobs. And as far as demasculinization, it’s mainly just the facial and body hair that I want to be rid of; I don’t want other sexual changes. So I’ve been under the impression that HRT really isn’t an option for me because of the unwanted effects, plus it wouldn’t even get rid of the unwanted hair anyway, but you sound like what you want is pretty similar to me so I’m wondering if maybe there’s something I’m missing about HRT that I should look into for myself…

Anyway, I wish I had some advice to give you but you’re probably dealing with it more and better than I have, so I’m not sure I really have anything useful to say there, sorry. I’m also absolutely terrible with clothing and appearance in general despite wanting to look more androgynous, lol. I do very much understand the feel of other people telling you that you look fine but you not feeling the same about yourself, though. It’s hard, because it’s not necessarily about what other people think, it’s mostly about what you think about yourself—are you happy with how you look or not? That’s not something other people can tell you… You can look perfectly fine to others but that doesn’t stop dysphoria if you aren’t happy with how you are, and that’s very hard to deal with. >_<

I hope you can find ways for your transition to go how you want it, though!

 

[Marce-chan]

I have no experience with HRT myself (mainly because, as far as I’m aware at least, there’s not really an option for me that would give me my desired results), but I’m in the same boat as you being an AMAB non-binary (specifically agender) person with dysphoria, specifically towards facial hair and most body hair, so I feel you. Facial hair in particular is super frustrating to deal with since you can’t just cover it up and you have to deal with it all the time. Shaving it is an issue for me too because I can’t shave every day or else my face breaks out, so the best I can do is once, maybe twice a week and I just have to deal with having the facial hair for the rest of the time, which I hate… >_<

I’m curious, though—what exactly are you looking for out of HRT if you don’t mind me asking, and have you been getting some of those results? I’ve considered HRT, but I also really don’t want the feminizing effects like growing boobs. And as far as demasculinization, it’s mainly just the facial and body hair that I want to be rid of; I don’t want other sexual changes. So I’ve been under the impression that HRT really isn’t an option for me because of the unwanted effects, plus it wouldn’t even get rid of the unwanted hair anyway, but you sound like what you want is pretty similar to me so I’m wondering if maybe there’s something I’m missing about HRT that I should look into for myself…

Anyway, I wish I had some advice to give you but you’re probably dealing with it more and better than I have, so I’m not sure I really have anything useful to say there, sorry. I’m also absolutely terrible with clothing and appearance in general despite wanting to look more androgynous, lol. I do very much understand the feel of other people telling you that you look fine but you not feeling the same about yourself, though. It’s hard, because it’s not necessarily about what other people think, it’s mostly about what you think about yourself—are you happy with how you look or not? That’s not something other people can tell you… You can look perfectly fine to others but that doesn’t stop dysphoria if you aren’t happy with how you are, and that’s very hard to deal with. >_<

I hope you can find ways for your transition to go how you want it, though!

Hey, thanks for the response!!

Well, in terms of demasculinization, what the HRT gives in long term is less body hair growing and a decrease of facial hair. It also softens the skin and depending on the protocol it might make boobs grow. AFAIK Spironolactone in monotherapy will mostly just do demasculinization and doesn't heavily influence breast size. Cyproterone tho, due to being a progesterone, makes the breasts increase. While taking Diane(cyproterone+ethynilestradiol), I noticed my breasts growing rather fast, which is one of the reasons I stopped taking it.

I don't really mind having boobs and I even find the idea interesting, but it was making my breasts grow without demasculinization, so it'd look more like gynecomastia than proper breasts, which I wasn't what I wanted.

There are some protocols of microdosing estradiol alongside the testosterone blockers to soften the feminizing effects while maximizing the demasculinization, which can be what you're looking for.

When I first reached out to the doctor, I told her I mostly only wanted to have less body hair, so that's why she prescribed blockers in monotherapy. It can give you the results you want without bringing the heavier adverse effects or feminizing.

Sadly, the body and facial hair growth decreasing (or having both mostly gone) is one of the effects of blockers that take the longest to occur. I'm 9 months in(with low doses) and both grow rather fast still. Regions where they're more rare, tho, when I shave, take awhile to grow again. But the ones that bother me the most(chest and face) grow super fast and that's rather disappointing. But I've noticed my beard is softer now and less dense, which is a relief.

I hope that with due time and maybe associated with other stuff (I can't afford laser depilation rn), it'll become less of an issue when body hair hopefully stops growing.

And I hope you feel more comfortable with yourself, I know it's hard and dysphoria can get really tough, but we need to see the beauty in our bodies and adjust it to what we want to look like.

Also don't worry, you shave way more than I do haha, it's more like once a month for me(I let it grow a lot, yeah). And I have the same problem of skin getting allergic to razors and stuff.

Also wanna say that HRT can have a lot of different approaches with different goals and results. I was super scared at first, but now that I'm in it I see it's a slow process that isn't as "radical" as some lead us to believe. I recommend you reach out a doctor so they can tell you of the options and the ups and downs of each.

At last, yeah, I feel you with being rather messy with clothing lol. But I think we probably mostly dress fine and get as androgynous as we can get, it's just that people mostly have a rather picky eye for what they consider androgynous in amab people. It's sad and I hope it changes.

In the beginning I was mostly about just dressing with whatever I found comfortable and I didn't mind how people would see me, but with the whole process of coming out as trans and trying to present as I see myself made my dysphoria increase a lot.

It's tough, but we'll get past it! If you ever need to talk, just reach out!

 

[Zellia]

 

[Marce-chan]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

 

[Tye]

Hey, thanks for the response!!

Well, in terms of demasculinization, what the HRT gives in long term is less body hair growing and a decrease of facial hair. It also softens the skin and depending on the protocol it might make boobs grow. AFAIK Spironolactone in monotherapy will mostly just do demasculinization and doesn't heavily influence breast size. Cyproterone tho, due to being a progesterone, makes the breasts increase. While taking Diane(cyproterone+ethynilestradiol), I noticed my breasts growing rather fast, which is one of the reasons I stopped taking it.

I don't really mind having boobs and I even find the idea interesting, but it was making my breasts grow without demasculinization, so it'd look more like gynecomastia than proper breasts, which I wasn't what I wanted.

There are some protocols of microdosing estradiol alongside the testosterone blockers to soften the feminizing effects while maximizing the demasculinization, which can be what you're looking for.

When I first reached out to the doctor, I told her I mostly only wanted to have less body hair, so that's why she prescribed blockers in monotherapy. It can give you the results you want without bringing the heavier adverse effects or feminizing.

Sadly, the body and facial hair growth decreasing (or having both mostly gone) is one of the effects of blockers that take the longest to occur. I'm 9 months in(with low doses) and both grow rather fast still. Regions where they're more rare, tho, when I shave, take awhile to grow again. But the ones that bother me the most(chest and face) grow super fast and that's rather disappointing. But I've noticed my beard is softer now and less dense, which is a relief.

I hope that with due time and maybe associated with other stuff (I can't afford laser depilation rn), it'll become less of an issue when body hair hopefully stops growing.

And I hope you feel more comfortable with yourself, I know it's hard and dysphoria can get really tough, but we need to see the beauty in our bodies and adjust it to what we want to look like.

Also don't worry, you shave way more than I do haha, it's more like once a month for me(I let it grow a lot, yeah). And I have the same problem of skin getting allergic to razors and stuff.

Also wanna say that HRT can have a lot of different approaches with different goals and results. I was super scared at first, but now that I'm in it I see it's a slow process that isn't as "radical" as some lead us to believe. I recommend you reach out a doctor so they can tell you of the options and the ups and downs of each.

At last, yeah, I feel you with being rather messy with clothing lol. But I think we probably mostly dress fine and get as androgynous as we can get, it's just that people mostly have a rather picky eye for what they consider androgynous in amab people. It's sad and I hope it changes.

In the beginning I was mostly about just dressing with whatever I found comfortable and I didn't mind how people would see me, but with the whole process of coming out as trans and trying to present as I see myself made my dysphoria increase a lot.

It's tough, but we'll get past it! If you ever need to talk, just reach out!

Hmm, I had heard that blockers can help reduce body/facial hair some, but it won’t actually completely get rid of it so either way I’d still need to shave or go through some hair removal process. (I actually bought an at-home IPL hair removal device but I’ve hardly used it because it hurts like HELL—and because ADHD makes it hard for me to stick to things like that, lol—so unfortunately I’ve not made any progress with that and don’t know if I ever will.) Also, maybe I could be misinformed, but I was under the impression that blockers would have sexual effects like erectile dysfunction and whatnot, is that not true? Because I absolutely don’t want that. I already dealt with that a bit while on other medication and it was absolutely awful for me.

So, while I’m certainly happy that HRT is an option for many that gives them what they want, from my understanding it doesn’t really seem like a viable option for what I want, or at least not one that won’t come with more unwanted results than desired results. I’m also hesitant because I’ve been on plenty of medications throughout my life that have fucked me up much more than they helped me, so I’m understandably extra hesitant to try new things that might have unwanted side effects and may not even give me the desired results in the first place.

Thank you, though, and sorry for asking my own questions in your thread—it’s just very rare that I come across another AMAB non-binary person who’s in a similar-ish position as me in what they want out of their transition, so I figured I’d ask.

 

[Marce-chan]

Hmm, I had heard that blockers can help reduce body/facial hair some, but it won’t actually completely get rid of it so either way I’d still need to shave or go through some hair removal process. (I actually bought an at-home IPL hair removal device but I’ve hardly used it because it hurts like HELL—and because ADHD makes it hard for me to stick to things like that, lol—so unfortunately I’ve not made any progress with that and don’t know if I ever will.

Ohh tell me about that at-home IPL device!! How does it work? Is it expensive? I might try it out! Tried wax and that hurt as hell so lol.

Also yeah, it's very slow in making body hair go away and generally does so when coupled with shaving or waxing in long term.

I noticed it made my facial hair less dense(as in not a proper beard anymore), but the speed of hair growth is the same sadly.

Also, maybe I could be misinformed, but I was under the impression that blockers would have sexual effects like erectile dysfunction and whatnot, is that not true? Because I absolutely don’t want that. I already dealt with that a bit while on other medication and it was absolutely awful for me.

So, while I’m certainly happy that HRT is an option for many that gives them what they want, from my understanding it doesn’t really seem like a viable option for what I want, or at least not one that won’t come with more unwanted results than desired results. I’m also hesitant because I’ve been on plenty of medications throughout my life that have fucked me up much more than they helped me, so I’m understandably extra hesitant to try new things that might have unwanted side effects and may not even give me the desired results in the first place.

Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone. And I understand being in a lot of meds already, I feel you. But some of the results we seek can be achieved without HRT too. Like laser depilation that's permanent after some sessions. I badly wanted that but I can't afford it so it was one of the reasons I stared blocking too. Some days the feminizing effects and some of the emotional effects almost make me want to quit it tbh.
(Also I'm sorry if it sounded like I was trying to push you into it or something, that wasn't my intention by any means)

Thank you, though, and sorry for asking my own questions in your thread—it’s just very rare that I come across another AMAB non-binary person who’s in a similar-ish position as me in what they want out of their transition, so I figured I’d ask.

No need to apologize!! I really liked talking to another person that's in a similar situation in regards to dysphoria to talk about it and hear their feelings too. I totally understand you, it's hard to find representation of other amab non-binary people or to find someone with similar goals or dysphoria. I'm really glad you responded!! And I'll be glad to answer your questions too so don't be afraid to ask!!

 

[Tye]

Ohh tell me about that at-home IPL device!! How does it work? Is it expensive? I might try it out! Tried wax and that hurt as hell so lol.

It’s a Tria laser hair removal device, and it’s supposed to work pretty well but, again, I’ve not used it much so I can’t really say much about its effectiveness from personal experience, sorry! It was pretty expensive, unfortunately, I think like around $400, lol… It was my partner who decided to get it, though, since both of us wanted it (they’re also AMAB non-binary like me and have the same desires in terms of transition and all) and it would probably cost less than having us both have to pay for a bunch of laser sessions or whatever, plus we figured it’d just be more convenient and comfortable being able to do it ourselves at home. But we should have known that it would be hard to stick with for us with us both having ADHD, lol, and we didn’t expect it to hurt quite as much as it does, too…


And you’re fine, I didn’t think you were pushing me or whatever. I was just trying to convey my personal frustrations about HRT, I guess. I always see other trans people talking about how amazing HRT is and speaking so highly of it and recommending it to everyone (kind of to the point where it does come across as pushy or peer pressure-y sometimes, honestly, though that’s not how I saw your posts, don’t worry), but I never really hear from people in my position who would love it if there was a form of HRT that could give them what they want but that doesn’t appear to exist, and that’s just kinda frustrating/sad to me I guess so I like to voice my experience when given the opportunity since it appears to be such an uncommon one. XP

 

[Marce-chan]

It’s a Tria laser hair removal device, and it’s supposed to work pretty well but, again, I’ve not used it much so I can’t really say much about its effectiveness from personal experience, sorry! It was pretty expensive, unfortunately, I think like around $400, lol… It was my partner who decided to get it, though, since both of us wanted it (they’re also AMAB non-binary like me and have the same desires in terms of transition and all) and it would probably cost less than having us both have to pay for a bunch of laser sessions or whatever, plus we figured it’d just be more convenient and comfortable being able to do it ourselves at home. But we should have known that it would be hard to stick with for us with us both having ADHD, lol, and we didn’t expect it to hurt quite as much as it does, too…

Oh that's amazing you have another non-binary person by your side that's in the same situation in regards to body goals as you!! I dream of having a t4t like that.
Also yeah way more than I can afford haha. Think I'll just shave more often and pray for the blockers to do their work.
If I get a scholarship I'll do some laser sessions too.

And you’re fine, I didn’t think you were pushing me or whatever. I was just trying to convey my personal frustrations about HRT, I guess. I always see other trans people talking about how amazing HRT is and speaking so highly of it and recommending it to everyone (kind of to the point where it does come across as pushy or peer pressure-y sometimes, honestly, though that’s not how I saw your posts, don’t worry), but I never really hear from people in my position who would love it if there was a form of HRT that could give them what they want but that doesn’t appear to exist, and that’s just kinda frustrating/sad to me I guess so I like to voice my experience when given the opportunity since it appears to be such an uncommon one. XP

Oh I definitely get that feeling too!! If only there was just an specific protocol to just demasculinize without the unwanted effects...
And thank you for telling me about your goals and your experience!! Sometimes I just feel so alone because I start to think like there's not a single amab non-binary person with similar goals/dysphoria as me.

 

[GamerJM]

I'm also an amab nonbinary person who has considered doing HRT, and for me the main hurdle isn't that HRT wouldn't give me the desired effects, but that my own desires about my own body are so susceptible to change over time that I'm afraid to do anything that could result in semi-permanent drastic changes. For example, approximately four years ago, I was actually a lot more dysphoric and HRT was something that I was pretty sure I wanted in the moment. Now I'm less sure. My desire for boobs went from definitely to "I think? I guess?". And ten years ago, I had absolutely no desire for physical changes, and was very happy in my male body.

And I know that testosterone is, itself, permanent in a way, that by not undergoing HRT I'm also subjecting myself to changes. I'm on finasteride currently, but I haven't noticed any significant changes from that aside from maybe some very low level brain fog.

 

[Marce-chan]

I'm also an amab nonbinary person who has considered doing HRT, and for me the main hurdle isn't that HRT wouldn't give me the desired effects, but that my own desires about my own body are so susceptible to change over time that I'm afraid to do anything that could result in semi-permanent drastic changes. For example, approximately four years ago, I was actually a lot more dysphoric and HRT was something that I was pretty sure I wanted in the moment. Now I'm less sure. My desire for boobs went from definitely to "I think? I guess?". And ten years ago, I had absolutely no desire for physical changes, and was very happy in my male body.

Oh I definitely relate a lot to it!! I'm genderfluid so there are days I like to present more masc and am comfortable in being seeing as masc. Some days I kinda almost reconsider if I'm not on HRT for some social pressure or something (ofc I'm not, but you know, sometimes people make us believe things lol). When I was at the beginning of my discovery I thought I was comfortable with my body and mostly just wanted to go through laser depilation. With the whole process of coming out to everyone tho, and the discoveries we made every day about ourselves, I started to wonder how I actually wanted to be seen or look like. Sometimes social pressure to have a thin and/or muscular body get to me too(I'm not thin and I'm not muscular not train or anything like that). My dysphoria tends to get worse and really smash me some days which is when I know for certain I need HRT, but some other days I reconsider whether or not I'll be happy with the results in the future.

And I know that testosterone is, itself, permanent in a way, that by not undergoing HRT I'm also subjecting myself to changes. I'm on finasteride currently, but I haven't noticed any significant changes from that aside from maybe some very low level brain fog.

Ohh that's cool!! Some doctors even prescribe finasteride as the blocker in HRT if the person can't tolerate Spiro or Cypro even. How long have you been on it? I think in some months you'll notice the skin getting softer and smoother, hair growing and etc.
I was in a very low dose of Spiro until last month when I found Cypro to buy. Spiro in that dose has a pretty similar effect to finasteride, so you're doing a great step already.

I hope you get all the results you want and that you have less dysphoric days frequently. And thanks for the response!!

 

[GamerJM]

Oh I definitely relate a lot to it!! I'm genderfluid so there are days I like to present more masc and am comfortable in being seeing as masc. Some days I kinda almost reconsider if I'm not on HRT for some social pressure or something (ofc I'm not, but you know, sometimes people make us believe things lol). When I was at the beginning of my discovery I thought I was comfortable with my body and mostly just wanted to go through laser depilation. With the whole process of coming out to everyone tho, and the discoveries we made every day about ourselves, I started to wonder how I actually wanted to be seen or look like. Sometimes social pressure to have a thin and/or muscular body get to me too(I'm not thin and I'm not muscular not train or anything like that). My dysphoria tends to get worse and really smash me some days which is when I know for certain I need HRT, but some other days I reconsider whether or not I'll be happy with the results in the future.

Ohh that's cool!! Some doctors even prescribe finasteride as the blocker in HRT if the person can't tolerate Spiro or Cypro even. How long have you been on it? I think in some months you'll notice the skin getting softer and smoother, hair growing and etc.
I was in a very low dose of Spiro until last month when I found Cypro to buy. Spiro in that dose has a pretty similar effect to finasteride, so you're doing a great step already.

I hope you get all the results you want and that you have less dysphoric days frequently. And thanks for the response!!

I've been on finasteride since towards the end of last year. I wasn't exactly balding before and the dose is pretty small though, which is probably why I'm noticing any changes.

 

[Marce-chan]