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Discussion It is inconceivable to me that we will go an entire generation without a new Donkey Kong

That's combining versions with re-releases, individually DKCR on Wii sold significantly less (6.57).

At best DKCR on WII Sold twice as much as the best metroid (3.07), and less than the bestselling kirby game (7.52M). It's still in the same ballpark of 3-7 Million.n

If DK was on the level of Mario/Zelda, Tropical freeze would've sold as much as Mario U deluxe (17.45M) . It didn't come anywhere close. (4.62)

Also, twiight princess on the Wii easily outsold DK by about a million units. Windwaker HD, an enhanced port (2.37M), also outsold Tropical Freeze on the wii U (2.02M).

The fact of the matter is, other than the original Donkey Kong Country, DKC isn't top tier in terms of sales. It's high, but isn't on the level of the big franchises.
It’s bit arbitrary to not include the rereleases

Twilight Princess has made 10.02 to DKCR’s 9.47

Both have been released on two separate consoles so the comparison is apt

Including Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime Remastered sales, DKCR has still sold three times as many copies
 
Retro was done with DK after Tropical Freeze, there was a whole 5 year gap before they started on Prime 4. A new DKC wouldn't have even taken that long. Nintendo deciding to put DK on ice until Retro decides they want another crack at DK and thaw him out is a poor decision both financially and in terms of maintaining a strong brand for DK, camoes in Mario movies and a backyard them park ride ain't gonna cut it. They can only rerelease Returns and Tropical Freeze so many times before people stop carrying. If Retro doesn't want DK then it's on Nintendo to find someone who does.
Retro was apparently doing something else & most likely wanted to do something else after two DK games. Much they wanted to do something else after burning themselves out with 3 Prime games in a 6yr span.

Oft the case with Nintendo they seem to want the studio who made these games to be the bearer of the IPs. Why else would they go to former Cing or AlphaDream staff if they could just spin up a studio for it, whether this be internal or external.

It’s not that easy as we see in various examples. The list includes but not limited to: Star Fox, Pikmin, Metroid, F-Zero, Bayonetta, & more. I’m sure Nintendo would love to have a DK game come out more regularly like they used too. Unfortunately for them the two studios who were the hearts of said franchise had other plans in mind.

I’m pretty sure DK is fine in terms of brand strength. And yes, being seen in a 1$bil movie, various >10mil selling games, & having a whole-ass dedicated park to him/brand means there are a lot of eyes on him. Same can’t be said for F-Zero for instance or the doldrums that was Metroid from Prime 3-Samus Returns. Financially Nintendo is fine so really not an issue here.
Explain how? Super Mario and Zelda teams do just fine sticking entirely to one franchise.
They did their names were Rare & Retro.
 
It’s bit arbitrary to not include the rereleases

Twilight Princess has made 10.02 to DKCR’s 9.47

Both have been released on two separate consoles so the comparison is apt
If Both games were rereleased? Sure, go ahead. Counting both releases against a game that hasn't, like you did for Kirby or Metroid, No.

Even with re-releases, TP comes out on top, even if by a narrow margin.

For me to feel like a new DKC to NEEDS to be a console mainstay, It would need a BOTW moment, which is easier said than done. But at the moment its very much in the ballpark of "Shows up when the time is right"
 
Yes, because Mario and Zelda have been EPD's biggest franchises without question for basically the studio's entire history. The creation of Mario and Zelda is rooted in history from before EPD existed.

Donkey Kong is not that. An EPD team could in theory make a new DK platformer, but DK is not such a priority at this stage that Nintendo would divert internal resources for a permanent team that makes nothing but Donkey Kong. Even Splatoon and Animal Crossing, both of which dwarf DK significantly, regularly share staff and resources since they're under the same EPD team. The idea of EPD taking staff and have them work on nothing but DK games forever just would not happen.
Splatoon doesn’t dwarf DKC

Highest selling Splatoon is Splatoon 2 with 13.60

Highest selling DKC is the original with 13.31, with DKCR not far behind with 9.47
 
If Both games were rereleased? Sure, go ahead. Counting both releases against a game that hasn't, like you did for Kirby or Metroid, No.

Even with re-releases, TP comes out on top, even if by a narrow margin.

For me to feel like a new DKC to NEEDS to be a console mainstay, It would need a BOTW moment, which is easier said than done. But at the moment its very much in the ballpark of "Shows up when the time is right"
Even counting original run sales DKC on average sells three times the number of copies as Metroid games

Tropical Freeze has made more money than Metroid Prime and both have two consoles
 
Splatoon doesn’t dwarf DKC

Highest selling Splatoon is Splatoon 2 with 13.60

Highest selling DKC is the original with 13.31, with DKCR not far behind with 9.47
Except we have comparisons!

Splatoon 1 v Tropical Freeze: 5M v 2M. (Same console) Not especially close.
Splatoon 2 v DKC 13.6M v 9 M (Bestselling game in series) (No i'm not counting the gameboy versions, they are different games with the same name)
Splatoon 3 v DKC 2 12M v 5M (Sequel to bestselling game in series on same console)

So... 2-0 Splatoon's favour.
 
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Even Splatoon and Animal Crossing, both of which dwarf DK significantly, regularly share staff and resources since they're under the same EPD team.
To be fair, I'd argue those franchises are under the same EPD team due to sharing a producer in Nogami moreso than any significant staff overlap. They probably could split into their own groups considering that Aya Kyogoku doesn't really touch Splatoon despite being EPD 5's manager.
 
Splatoon doesn’t dwarf DKC

Highest selling Splatoon is Splatoon 2 with 13.60

Highest selling DKC is the original with 13.31, with DKCR not far behind with 9.47
This isn’t what makes a series continue… They aren’t going to keep exalting the sales of the best seller in the series WHEN the series sales aren’t consistently so… it’s also disingenuous to keep comparing the best seller in DK while choosing any arbitrary Zelda game…

If the person you're debating with chose to, they could only include Botw, Totk, Oot, TP, Links awakening, etc. and refuse the comparison with games that haven’t had a rerelease to bolster its numbers.
 
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Even counting original run sales DKC on average sells three times the number of copies as Metroid games
I feel like you're just ignoring my points you can't dispute, like Zelda...
Besides, it was your initial argument that said "triple the bestselling Metroid game"

It's not the mid-1990s anymore. And Splatoon is currently absolutely one of EPD's biggest franchises.
It's worth noting the similar numbers is only due to them including the Gameboy versions of donkey kong country, which, no. We don't include the super mario bros game and watch in SMB's sales numebrs
 
I feel like you're just ignoring my points you can't dispute, like Zelda...



It's worth noting the similar numbers is only due to them including the Gameboy versions of donkey kong country, which, no. We don't include the super mario bros game and watch in SMB's sales numebrs
I don’t need to respond to every point you make

You were wrong about Metroid, that doesn’t have anything to do with Zelda

Even adjusting for rereleases, DKC was in the same ballpark as Zelda prior to the Switch
 
I’m curious about when Donkey Kong Country Returns HD began development.

In its press release, the developer mentions the code name previously given to this title. It would be interesting to know when they first mentioned this code name officially. It’s amazing because it looks like a filling game and at the same time there are three completely new games in the second half and this port will only be released in January.
 
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I don’t need to respond to every point you make

You were wrong about Metroid, that doesn’t have anything to do with Zelda

Even adjusting for rereleases, DKC was in the same ballpark as Zelda prior to the Switch
It wasn’t really, about 30-40 million off in total series sales (mainline) now make it about 80 millions.
 
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You’re changing the subject
Not at all, countering your assertion that the number of games affects the sales numbers of DK being considered generally low.

I offered an example of a game with less titles yet more overall sales. I can offer others but the point being, your assertions don’t take into account franchises that are doing what DK hasn’t. Nintendo doesn’t make games arbitrarily and DK hasn’t demanded neither the number of games as Zelda nor the pure sales of franchises such as SSB or MK (per title).
 
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That's still an arbitrary reading.

In academics, 30% is the difference between A+ and D- if not F. That's a pretty significant jump.
A to F is a scale, not a raw score

The only equivalent for games would be something like under 1 million as the lower bound and over 30 million as the upper bound in which case yes the difference between Splatoon 2 and DKCR is minimal
 
A to F is a scale, not a raw score

The only equivalent for games would be something like under 1 million as the lower bound and over 30 million as the upper bound in which case yes the difference between Splatoon 2 and DKCR is minimal
No, if I scored 70% on a test, that's a pretty big difference from an A. But I was making a point, again, that the reading of your sales comparison is arbitrary. Just like you're arbitrarily counting some series but not others as valid comparison points to DK with no consistency whatsoever.
 
No, if I scored 70% on a test, that's a pretty big difference from an A. But I was making a point, again, that the reading of your sales comparison is arbitrary. Just like you're arbitrarily counting some series but not others as valid comparison points to DK with no consistency whatsoever.
Again, please note the distinction between scale and raw score
 
Yes, because Mario and Zelda have been EPD's biggest franchises without question for basically the studio's entire history. The creation of Mario and Zelda is rooted in history from before EPD existed.

Donkey Kong is not that. An EPD team could in theory make a new DK platformer, but DK is not such a priority at this stage that Nintendo would divert internal resources for a permanent team that makes nothing but Donkey Kong. Even Splatoon and Animal Crossing, both of which dwarf DK significantly, regularly share staff and resources since they're under the same EPD team. The idea of EPD taking staff and have them work on nothing but DK games forever just would not happen.
You do know the EPD 8's first game wasn't even 3D Mario right? It was DK. And the whole "The creation of Mario and Zelda is rooted in history from before EPD existed" is just kinda illogical.

You also try to make it sound like EPD 5 is a single team juggling Splatoon and AC at the same time. No, both of those series have their own teams but share key leadership members. (The Splatoon team also has many that moved over from AC, why would Nintendo do that for what was a new IP at the time?).
Saying DK isn't worth it is kinda wild when the Mario Kart group also had ARMS and 2D Mario group also works on Pikmin. When it comes to mascot franchises completely owned by Nintendo, the franchise directly under Splatoon in terms of sales for an individual game is Donkey Kong.
 
Number of copies sold
There are titles with 1 million sold up to what? 9 million? And it is an outlier in the fact that it took 3 releases to accomplish what the initial DKC did.

This isn’t some gang up on DK but you really need to stop calling others points arbitrary. Then subsequently conjure some criteria in which puts a positive spin on DK’s declining sales.

Lastly, before you ask AC also has less games than DK. And I don’t count Mario Party or Kart as “Mario games” the same way I separate 2D and 3D Mario… but that IS arbitrary, I guess…
 
There are titles with 1 million sold up to what? 9 million? And it is an outlier in the fact that it took 3 releases to accomplish what the initial DKC did.

This isn’t some gang up on DK but you really need to stop calling others points arbitrary. Then subsequently conjure some criteria in which puts a positive spin on DK’s declining sales.

Lastly, before you ask AC also has less games than DK. And I don’t count Mario Party or Kart as “Mario games” the same way I separate 2D and 3D Mario… but that IS arbitrary, I guess…
I have no idea what you’re trying to say
 
I’m pretty sure DK is fine in terms of brand strength. And yes, being seen in a 1$bil movie, various >10mil selling games, & having a whole-ass dedicated park to him/brand means there are a lot of eyes on him. Same can’t be said for F-Zero for instance or the doldrums that was Metroid from Prime 3-Samus Returns. Financially Nintendo is fine so really not an issue here.
It's is absolutely not fine in terms of brand strength. Cameos in a Mario movie means people consider him a Mario side character and not his own thing (branding) and its not a while-ass dedicated park, it's just a ride in the back of Nintendo World. When have you ever seen a brand stay relevant or grow because of a rollercoaster? F-Zero and Metroid have NEVER had the Brand strength of Donkey Kong so that just an odd comparison.
They did their names were Rare & Retro.
Neither Rare nor Retro were created for Donkey Kong, they actually weren't created by Nintendo at all. They were given DK and eventually they stopped doing DK. This literally helps my argument of making a DK team, not your argument.
 
Gonna need to see a citation for that first claim
As far as I can tell:
Switch Outsold the Wii Q3 2021

Splatoon 2 Sold 11 Million by Q1 2020, and hasn't seen an update since 13.6 Million in December 2022.

Considering Splatoon 3 had its hype cycle and launched between that, almost certainly collapsing Splatoon 2's legs. At least 12.5 Million, probably more, were sold before switch outsold Wii. It narrows the margin Slightly, but not by any significant amount.

Removing the 3DS Port, the comparison is 6.5 Million to 12.5 Million. Which is not even close
 


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