-
Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
-
Furukawa Speaks! We discuss the announcement of the Nintendo Switch Successor and our June Direct Predictions on the new episode of the Famiboards Discussion Club! Check it out here!
Discussion It is inconceivable to me that we will go an entire generation without a new Donkey Kong
- Thread starter Guaraná
- Start date
Bowser Sr.
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He Him
Their park is called Super Nintendo World, NOT "Donkey Nintendo Kong".
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
Twohearts
Lilipup
- Pronouns
- They/them
I'm sure there will be a new DK game soon. It's so sad that all of Nintendo's furry series missed the Switch. I really want DK but I feel it needs a strong sell, I'm not sure there's a big want for many normal 2d platformers outside of weirdos who post on forums. I think 3D platformer or maybe something new like a srpg or something. DK in new York would be cool
Dekuman
Gerudo
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Get Playtonic to do it, they're proven , they appear to be genuine fans of Nintendo still and with Nintendo money and guidance from Mario Club on play testing, i am confident they can turn out a good product.
I also want Nintendo to engage with more western studios and pull them into their orbit.
Drybones2015
Octorok
We must never forget the Great Drought of Kong.
At the very least Mario and Rabbids featured a wonderful DK themed expansion. Starfox doesn't have a native Switch game of any kind and Ubisoft gave it a nice dlc for Starlink. Ubisoft oddly for the win.
They clearly want to make and grow their own ip, and good on them for that. The Yooka Laylee remake looks wonderful.
- Pronouns
- He
It's time to get over it to be honest. The Switch 2 is right around the corner.
Is this like, a thing? I recently noticed on Discord that there are Mario fans that just randomly dunk on DK lol, I never thought this was a rivalry
- Pronouns
- 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖞 / 𝖘𝖍𝖊
Last edited:
Drybones2015
Octorok
As unfun as it was, Donkey Kong Jr Math on NES is still it's own game. And ignoring the Donga games, Jungle Beat is a solid platformer for what's there. You don't even need the Bongos to play, it also worked with a regular GameCube controller.
Stilt Village
GBA
Kind of? A lot of it's a remnant of there being a decade+ where Nintendo fans hated Rare and all of their games were never good and all the good people left and they were declining anyway so actually Nintendo was right to sell them. The buyout was seen as a betrayal to the enemy, and this was how it was coped with. You had outright made-up quotes from big Nintendo figures to further this narrative, like Miyamoto's "Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good", which became so famous he publicly denied the rumors he didn't like Donkey Kong Country when Returns was announced, and Koizumi's "We don't really feel the past look of Donkey Kong was fresh enough for today" when explaining why only Donkey Kong and "the banana" were returning for Jungle Beat.
Most of this is not a notable thing anymore, although to this day I think someone saying that the best Donkey Kong game is DK94 or Jungle Beat is usually a dogwhistle, because those two are the ones considered "Nintendo games". Mostly DK94 really, I feel like the Jungle Beat fans I encounter these days are more often than not genuinely passionate about its unique gameplay, but DK94 is mostly just the acceptable one for Nintendo purist weirdos from the 80's.
Anyway, anti-Rare sentiment was everywhere and very out in the open and controlling the conversation until around ten years ago. It was all-pervasive, you even had Diddy Kong catching strays in Nintendo Power as late as Brawl.
This is going to seem like a tangent, but think about Donkey Kong Country Returns for a second. It's basically the New Super Mario Bros. of Donkey Kong Country, right? It's a revival seeking to modernize a classic series while banking heavily on nostalgia, with the game's very title making clear its intent. Now imagine how bizarre it would be if New Super Mario Bros. had only Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, and Toad as returning characters. Bowser and his minions are gone, the princess has now been kidnapped by, let's say, evil mold creatures. Mario is now heavy and sluggish unless you know that you should be spin jumping everywhere, which is actually way faster and way easier to control than normal running and jumping. Luigi is now treated as a power-up and can only be controlled by player 2 in co-op mode. The signature blocky style of the world has been changed to a realistic look using more rounded shapes, they took the eyes off of all the power-ups, and Peach's Castle is no longer pink and is now just a generic castle with no particular identifying features. Remember, this game is also trying its absolute hardest to go "remember Super Mario Bros.?", with expies of classic enemies and familiar settings everywhere. There's a common enemy type that's functionally a Koopa, but instead of a turtle it's a mold with a hard shell. The game heavily celebrates Mario's arcade origins, tributes like the New Donk festival are everywhere; but don't you dare expect to see a single thing from any actual Super Mario Bros. game appear in sprite form in the background or something.
This is exactly what Donkey Kong Country Returns was for Donkey Kong, and yet nobody questioned it because of just how low the status of Rare's creations was in 2010. Nintendo Power's coverage of Returns went out of its way to praise the lack of returning characters, saying "Donkey's great, and Diddy's okay, but that's where I, personally, draw the line". The comments about how they weren't going to have any Kremlings in it got people talking, but there was no real outcry to any of Returns' decisions even though the overall product is pretty baffling as a nostalgia play, from Nintendo of all companies, when you really look at it. Practically the only recognizable iconography they kept from Donkey Kong Country was the soundtrack, and that's probably only because it was an order straight from Iwata. We still don't really know why Retro's DKC games were like this, but their reception says a lot about the climate they released in.
Speaking of which, one part of the explosive reaction to Tropical Freeze's reveal that's been forgotten in light of the "Should've Been Metroid" narrative is that for some people Returns was inherently assumed to be a one-off revival like Punch-Out Wii. You had people wanting Retro to do StarTropics next. That's what reviving Donkey Kong Country was, the equivalent of bringing back StarTropics. But I can actually kind of understand genuinely having that perspective, because if you did not grow up in either the late 90's or the early 2010's, Donkey Kong probably has effectively the same status as Waluigi to you. That's what he is, some character who just appears in Mario spinoffs.
That's the real show of Nintendo's perpetual mismanagement of Donkey Kong I think, the way they've created entire generations of Nintendo fans who have no attachment to what has repeatedly proven to be one of their biggest series when they actually give it a real chance to succeed. If you weren't there, you would have no idea that there was a period where Diddy Kong was one rung below Mario as a Nintendo mascot.
(Also Donkey Kong fans dunk on Mario sometimes too I guess, but it's not that notable because everyone dunks on NSMB for being lame whether they're repping another platformer series or not. It's kind of hard to develop a real superiority complex when "yeah but they actually make Mario games tho" is such a good comeback.)
NamelessGB
Piranha Plant
I mean at least Mario Kart fans got a DLC that has more tracks than a whole new game did in 2014
DK fans get...a Wii game for the 51849926th time
Last edited:
Earthbounder
Boing!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think they planned to release a new Donkey Kong for the Switch, but then mid-development they opted to push it to the Switch 2.
Do I have any information to back that up? Obviously, no. Is it a form of coping? Hell yes. But that's what I think.
Even if that's the case, I agree: it absolutely sucks there's no new Donkey Kong on the Switch.
Do I have any information to back that up? Obviously, no. Is it a form of coping? Hell yes. But that's what I think.
Even if that's the case, I agree: it absolutely sucks there's no new Donkey Kong on the Switch.
Linkstrikesback
Bounty Hunter
- Pronouns
- He
Playtonic as a suggestion doesn't work because it's in their companies best interests that the franchises they're ...aping. stay as dead as they can be; they've got their own IP they're wanting to build in the exact same space playing pretty much the same way. It's also why they'll never work on Banjo Kazooie even if they try and put it politely in interviews.
Working on either could be actively detrimental to their potential future as a company, so it isn't worth the risk.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Personally I'm still inclined to think the series has been returned to EPD. We've seen Nintendo make commitments to new directions for existing series but that new direction then takes a long time to materialise. The 2D Mario leads expressed their commitment to taking Bros in a new direction in 2015, when Maker release, but we didn't get Wonder till 2023. Likewise, Aonuma expressed a desire for an evolved style of portable Zelda in 2017, when Breath of the Wild release, but it's taken until now for Echoes of Wisdom to materialise. And, in the run up to both Wonder last year and Echoes of Wisdom this year, there were plenty of fans of both series (including on this forum) who dismissed the idea that new directions for those series would appear.
Obviously, we don't have that public statement from a lead designer, but we do have the theme park, the use of the Kongs in the Mario film, the merchandising stuff, and the efforts to use DK throughout the Switch era (Tropical Freeze, Donkey Kong Adventure for Mario + Rabbids,
Mario vs DK, now Country Returns HD). That doesn't make it any less disappointing that a new mainline game isn't here, of course, and I agree it's especially frustrating on the back of two decades of stop-start efforts with Donkey Kong. While I made the comparison with 2D Mario and 2D Zelda, that's really a limited parallel, because those broader franchises obviously have more attention and more options for fans than DK.
Personally I still think EPD are taking the time to give the franchise a fixed home in internal development. Creatively, commercially and in terms of broader IP activity, Donkey Kong has a lot of potential which through has been squandered for the best part of 25 years, despite some excellent games in that time. One way of making sure that this doesn't continue is by bringing it in-house and making the resource commitment secure.
But with DKCR HD in early 2025, it's a little more difficult to envisage that emerging in the short term, though you can never rule it out.
Obviously, we don't have that public statement from a lead designer, but we do have the theme park, the use of the Kongs in the Mario film, the merchandising stuff, and the efforts to use DK throughout the Switch era (Tropical Freeze, Donkey Kong Adventure for Mario + Rabbids,
Mario vs DK, now Country Returns HD). That doesn't make it any less disappointing that a new mainline game isn't here, of course, and I agree it's especially frustrating on the back of two decades of stop-start efforts with Donkey Kong. While I made the comparison with 2D Mario and 2D Zelda, that's really a limited parallel, because those broader franchises obviously have more attention and more options for fans than DK.
Personally I still think EPD are taking the time to give the franchise a fixed home in internal development. Creatively, commercially and in terms of broader IP activity, Donkey Kong has a lot of potential which through has been squandered for the best part of 25 years, despite some excellent games in that time. One way of making sure that this doesn't continue is by bringing it in-house and making the resource commitment secure.
But with DKCR HD in early 2025, it's a little more difficult to envisage that emerging in the short term, though you can never rule it out.
As someone who would absolutely fall into the category of "generations of fans who have no attachment..." I don't think it's true to, especially not to the extent you say it is.
There was exactly 1 generation where there wasn't a donkey Kong country game before switch, and even that had Jungle Beat.
Metroid skipped N64 and Wii U, Pikmin skipped Wii, and yet none of these series have ever received the sort of pushback Tropical Freeze did.
Not only that, but since the original country, DKC's standings on the consoles sales list have almost never not slipped, going from #3 on DKC, to #7 on N64, to #16 on Wii, only being broken by #11 with tropical freeze, on a system with notoriously weak 1st part output.
That doesn't seem particularly "mishandled" to me, just a gradually declining interest in the series.
I think the real issue is that Donkey Kong's relevance to the general public is universally overshadowed by "Rival DK" from the Arcades. To 99% of people, regardless of what generation they're from, THAT is donkey kong, not DKC. So naturally, as interest in the DKC series declines, the mainstream reverts to "rival DK."
jariw
Moblin
Who has bought a Switch on the assumption that they will get a brand new DK game?
LiveStudioCrowd
Cappy
- Pronouns
- Male
DK definitely feels like it's still trying to undo the decline in relevance circa 2000-2009 where due to the lack of a strong mainline game (and Jungle Beat seen as a novelty release) that it got largely defined to various generations as a lower tier IP and DK himself seemingly more notable for cameos than his own series. To some degree it became a self-fulfilling prophecy; the lack of momentum the franchise from broader investment meant decreased interest in the market (the Wii effect on Returns' sales notwithstanding) which then led to less motivation to more strongly invest in getting it a dedicated studio until possibly recently.
There's always been strong spotlight for DK himself, it's just that the series itself has not been so lucky.
There's always been strong spotlight for DK himself, it's just that the series itself has not been so lucky.
The thing is, I'm questioning how a single generation could do THAT much damage. Metroid got relegated to federation force for the 3ds gen, but it bounced back stronger than it left in popularity and cultural relevance. Mega Man and Ace attorney had similar breaks, but also maintained cultural relevance.
I can't help but feel like it's because of a contradiction with the inherent contradiction of DK, the rival to mario, and DK, the protagonist.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Pikmin
I think the biggest issue for DK is just standing out from Mario, especially since Mario Wonder took a lot of stuff from DKC.
I think DK needs a defining mechanical gimmick that makes it play very differently from Mario while still being mainstream and appealing.
I think DK needs a defining mechanical gimmick that makes it play very differently from Mario while still being mainstream and appealing.
OP
OP
Guaraná
Paratroopa
I hate them!!!11!1!1
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's because for a decade Rare was steering the DK ship at Nintendo. When Nintendo let Microsoft buy them out, they didn't really find a dedicated team to work on the IP again until Retro, and everyone lost their shit at Retro making Donkey Kong games. With Retro back on Metroid, Donkey Kong once again appears to be in desperate need of a team to become its champion. Nintendo clearly sees that the IP has value between the enhanced port of TF, the HD remaster of R, the remake of the og MvsDK, the upcoming theme park ride, and his prominence in the Mario movie. DK is still doing way better than Star Fox who at best you can say got an unreleased SNES games dropped in a limited edition mini console and on NSO behind a subscription.
LiveStudioCrowd
Cappy
- Pronouns
- Male
I mean in fairness, DK simply had a higher place to fall from. Metroid has always been a solid selling series that virtually everyone respected, but the Country titles outsold Super Metroid a lot and the Kongs themselves were major faces of Nintendo in the west circa 94-97 (while starting to decline a bit in 98-99). Once Pokémon got big outside of Japan and Zelda effectively came back from its hibernation with Ocarina of Time, there was no way DK could realistically be in the upper echelon of IP's in overall Nintendo marketing alongside them and Mario for many reasons.
I think that loss in status in combination with the lack of new mainline games was the one two punch that increasingly rendered DK as a less significant brand. Doubly so when the GC audience was more made of the hardcore/younger audience that didn't even have a standard Donkey Kong game to play, let alone an 'event" one like the 1994 Country game was. Even DKC Returns as a 2D platformer ended up competing in the cultural space with Mario far more directly than the two had before (as well as the aesthetic contrast the SNES games had against other platformers no long being a factor). Thse various elements may have given DK a reputation as just another fun, albeit standard Nintendo series outside the hardcore fandom.
Essentially DK lost its major status as a pillar of Nintendo in marketing, had less mainline games coming out, was associated with peripheral that was very hit & miss to audiences, and even had its unique status as the mass market 2D platformer series with distinct graphics fade away in light of 2D Mario becoming active again, on top of Retro's Country efforts looking closer to most games of its type (at least on a surface level).
It's not mishandling by Nintendo per se, but it was a series of factors that in combination with the lack of strong direction in the 2000s I'd argue did eventually diminish the market possibilities of the series.
Last edited:
That doesn't really change what I'm saying. That's true, but if the quality was consistent, the Gen shouldn't have done THAT much damage. I agree with the rest though. I suspect once Nintendo expands to the new building, Splatoon and Pikmin will get their own dedicated teams, while some of the adrift franchises like DK will get a home.
Yeah, I think that's a good summary, but I think that could also be extended to DK64 competing a lot more directly to Mario 64, and by extension Banjo Kazooie for similar reasons.
Ultimately, DK, like a lot of Nintendo's series, just needs a permanent home, which I think was a major issue during the Wii-Wii U era. 2D Metroid got mercurysteam, so hopefully things turn out well some day for Monkey.
And a new funky mode
CyberWolfBia
I talk more about games than I play them
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Why wouldn't anyone think that? the only systems that didn't had their own DK game were the Virtual Boy and the 3DS before the Switch (and I guess the GBC, if you don't lump it with the regular Game Boy like Nintendo does).. and as far home console goes, that's the very first time it happened. Everybody now are daydreaming on the next 3D Mario for the Switch 2,, right? Why it's any different to assume such big IP like Donkey Kong will be getting new games on the brand new system? It's not a franchise like Golden Sun or Rhythm Heaven which always got irregular releases.
I can't understand how the logic doesn't apply here.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In a world where Rare stays with Nintendo, we for sure see Donkey Kong Racing, Coconut Crackers isn't reskinned, and probably another mainline game in some form from Rare. DK got bongos because Namco was already doing Taiko Drum and seemingly they and Nintendo saw potential. Games could be made much faster in the 00's, but you still need a team and a creative with an idea. Ultimately I think you're over estimating how much "damage" bongos caused DK as a brand, even if the gamers (tm) act like there was a gap between DK64 and DKCR for mainline DK. DK still had a ton of games released during that period between the bongo games, barrel blast, the swing games, and the Mario vs DK series. If the IP was actually "damaged", Returns during late era Wii wouldn't have sold 4 million+ copies in a month.
Perhaps I am, but I wasn't around for the original run of DKC.
I'm just trying to reconcile how a game series goes from takes like
to "F***** Donkey Kong Again" at the reveal of the second game in the reboot over the course of missing a single generation. The simplest solution is that DK's cultural influence was overstated, or that People wanted prime 4 THAT badly, but I honestly have no idea.
jariw
Moblin
Buying a system based on games that aren't even announced seems crazy to me. And DK games aren't really tentpole franchises as 3D Mario, MK, Mario Party, Zelda, Pokemon, etc.
Ricimer
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- She/Her
People here aren't gonna like to hear this, but the fact is: Donkey Kong is a mainstream IP whose games mostly sell to the mainstream audience, like 2D Mario. And those remasters are enough to fit the market demand of that audience this generation.
The hardcore DK fans here really overestimate how much desire there is for a new game, or how many hardcore DK fans there even are. While a new game will sell very well and be appreciated as a "oh yeah it's about time for a new one", most people aren't foaming at the mouth for a new entry. The hardcore DK fandom with this feverish demand is really only a thing within younger circles of online Nintendo fans, like this website.
We're coming off receiving two DK games, within short order, on the last two consoles. Most people who were waiting on the series's big IP revival got their fill then. And most people didn't play TF until 2018. Not to mention the 2D platforming genre has been oversaturated for over a decade too, people have tons of options for other similar games to play in the meantime.
Last edited:
This is such a weird headcanon to bring up and pass it off as fact, as if DKC itself wasn't a major revamp. It might be a hard thing to grasp for people who grew up with a SNES and the DKC games but there are plenty of people out there who don't give a crap about DK as a 2D platformer series but see DK as an arcade game series. I'm not one of them as I enjoy DKC, but it's not a weird thing to prefer DK94 at all. Listing games like DK94 as the best makes perfect sense. It is genuinely an incredible game for the original Gameboy. It's not a dog whistle to like it. What are you talking about?
I swear some Rare fans still have such childish entitlement to what Nintendo, Retro, or anyone who touches DK who's not Rare MUST do with the series. Like, it has to have everything Rare established or else it's a betrayal. Nah this ain't how it works.
The interview with Koizumi is a good example, they didn't set out to make a DKC game so they don't have to or should stick to the established fiction of DKC if it doesn't go with their creative vision. Developers don't want to limit themselves. They wanted to GASP create something new with the DK IP!
It's one thing to not like these games but it is another thing to act entitled and tell the developers what they should have done instead.
I could go on with the rest of your post but to sum up, Retro didn't want to just carbon copy DKC1-3. They wanted to make a DKC game that has its own identity even if it means stripping some things out from the 16-bit games. If that's what they want then they have the right to do it and it's not a conspiracy to "erase the Rare DK Fiction" Which is what your post is implying. And no, they didn't just want to create a nostalgia throwback. Even when they made Prime games they included several new things and made each entry distinct. If they wanted to i'm sure they could have included nothing new and it would have been just "Super Metroid in 3D three times in a row" but no developer wants to be that creatively bankrupt.
As someone who vastly prefers DKCR to any other game in the series. I find this narrative from Rare fans somewhat tiresome to read. It can't help but have an air of entitlement every time it gets brought up.
I do agree with you about one thing and that is that Nintendo has somewhat mismanaged this series by not having a new entry but not because they didn't put the Kremlings or one of the thousand other DK64 character rejects in Tropical Freeze just to pander to Rare fans.
Zalman
Stuck on a different planet
I'm actually just going to quote a post I made last year because I think it's still relevant.
Ricimer
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I agree completely with all your points. But it's worth saying Retro's attempts at doing something new sucked and the Kremlings were way better. Also K Rool is such a good character that he should really be elevated to Bowser/King Dedede status as a series main.
CyberWolfBia
I talk more about games than I play them
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I really don't know what to tell you.
When in the same sentence that you slander Donkey Kong's importance (you know, the franchise that put Nintendo on the map back in the 80's and made Miyamoto a superstar) you elevate freaking Mario Party on the same status of The Legend of Zelda and Pokémon..
Silly of us to think that our franchise will get a new game based on just everything that came out before. DK is just as important as Waluigi and Daisy after all, just Mario spinoff roster filler.
Ricimer
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You don't know sales numbers.
I mean I don't hate the kremilings or anything and wouldn't mind if they came back, but when Retro confirmed that they aren't going to use them it was easy to accept in "Oh ok, they want to make something new, cool" kind of way. What I didn't do is start drafting a headcanon about how this a conspiracy from inside Nintendo and Retro to destroy classic DKC because they secretly hate Rare" And that's unironically what some hardcore Rare fans have done since 2010.
I wish I was making this up.
Barahir_MJH
Cappy
The Tikis were kinda lame. The Snomads were cool though, and with TF’s ice theming I don’t think the Kremlins could have easily replaced them.
Probably nostalgia talking but I liked the Tikis. I think I generally have an inverse relationship between anthropomorphism and appreciation for character designs though
CyberWolfBia
I talk more about games than I play them
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sure I do.
Donkey Kong at his worst selling almost 4 million on a system on its way out (DKC3 on the SNES) when the ceiling for most non-bundled games at the time were at most 5 to 6 million; Street Fighter II Vanilla on SNES was Capcom's best selling game of all time for decades with just 6 million.
DK64, controversial as it is, in the Top 10 best selling N64 games alongside a spinoff starring a side-character like Diddy Kong. Luigi's Mansion 1 couldn't beat Diddy Kong Racing.
DKCR outselling Skyward Sword, every Sonic and Kirby game released on the Wii and the whole Metroid Prime trilogy combined.
The Donkey Kong Country franchise alone is up to 50+ million units sold as whole. Tekken just did 57 million a couple of years ago, being a multiplat series, to put on perspective.
Nintendo when comes to talk about their IPs get to mention Donkey Kong alongside Mario, Splatoon and Animal Crossing, as of same value. The park alone should at least give people a sign of how important DK is for the company's legacy.
ah, but the sales talk is only relevant when it's convenient. People asking Nintendo to promote Metroid Prime 4 as the next big thing since Tears of the Kingdom, put that little detail on the side.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Mixture of
People wanted Prime 4 to wash the taste of Other M out
Anti 2d platformer bias running wild at the time, mixed with the idea that Retro could be doing far bigger than another 2d platformer.
WiiU had mostly been bought by the hard core audience, and TF appeared to just be another 2d platformer which Nintendo was doing a lot of at the time.
Some delusion that WiiU could turn things around with big core pleasing games like Prime 4/the belief that TF was doubling down on a casual audience that wasn't interested in the system.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think fans overstate how vital sales are to ensuring new entries in Nintendo series. I think most Nintendo IPs are more so motivated by "we'll make a new game if we can and/or want to".
Hailinel
Musou Mania!
Uh...if you're talking about Mario vs Donkey Kong, that series is a pseudo-spin-off from DK '94, which itself is an expanded take on the OG Donkey Kong, in which he is the villain.
I mean, sometimes DK is in the jungle collecting bananas and fighting Kremlings or whatever, and sometimes he's annoying the shit out of and causing trouble for Mario. So I'm not sure what you mean by unfairly.
CyberWolfBia
I talk more about games than I play them
- Pronouns
- She/Her
MvDK was the first time that the modern depiction of Donkey Kong revamped by Rare was put in a villain role; He is not supposed even to be the same character of the Arcade game, and he has a complete different personality. Before that, the closest we had was having Modern DK in the Game & Watch Gallery 4, but only in the title screen; whereas the actual gameplay they always had DK Sr. (aka young Cranky Kong) playing his usual role.
For 10 years Donkey Kong was seen nothing but as a hero, and to come a game and try to change the effort that were put on that all of sudden was at very least off-putting.
And the in-game context did put him unfairly in an antagonistic role too. He stole the Mini Marios, yeah.. but you know, Mario went too far because some toys they were already mass producing anyway ;P
At least they apologize in the end! and the remake made Mario and the Toads bit less jerkies! And tried to promote the game as in a friendly rivalry ("frenemies" as they put)
