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Discussion I can't think of a single valid argument for why women shouldn't be allowed to go topless in public.

Should women be allowed to go topless in public?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 64.9%

  • No

    Votes: 6 8.1%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 5 6.8%

  • This isn't anyone's business except the person in question

    Votes: 39 52.7%
  • Total voters
    74
B

brainchild

Moblin
I'm sitting here without a shirt because of the heat (especially since I'm prone to heat rashes), and I'm just reminded of how privileged I am to be able to do so without consequences because I don't have [female] breasts. It actually started to piss me off the more I thought about it. Who are we as a society to tell women what clothes they are or are not allowed to wear, especially when it's hot, and they might need some relief from the heat?

I just don't understand it and would like to hear you all's thoughts on the matter, especially from the women on this forum.

Also, Minnesota has no business being this hot. Can't wait to move to Canada!

EDIT:

NOTE: You can select up to two options in the poll.
 
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They should.

Personally I don't really like being outside with my chest exposed, but anyone should have the option to do it.
 
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YAGpXPdh.jpg


I can't think of any either.
 
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bellydrum said:
Going topless does not "follow through" to the exposure of genitalia.

So that doesn't make any sense.
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I assume the reason it's not allowed is because breasts are seen as overtly sexual in the same way as genitalia. Why else is exposed genitalia banned?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, btw. I'm legit curious if it's just a case of "genitals are worse!"?
 
Stopdoor said:
I assume the reason it's not allowed is because breasts are seen as overtly sexual in the same way as genitalia. Why else is exposed genitalia banned?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, btw. I'm legit curious if it's just a case of "genitals are worse!"?
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I for one think genitals are kinda gross
 
Stopdoor said:
I assume the reason it's not allowed is because breasts are seen as overtly sexual in the same way as genitalia. Why else is exposed genitalia banned?
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I think that's the unspoken crux of the OP

Stopdoor said:
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, btw.
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I'd suggest just making your point instead of playing devil's advocate. It's hard to discern your standpoint (and therefore hard to discuss it with you) if you're not speaking from your own point of view

I'm legit curious if it's just a case of "genitals are worse!"?
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What do you mean by this?
 
Stopdoor said:
And so if the lawmakers all get together and say "breasts are gross!" that defeats the OP? 🤔
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I guess it's about equality

currently breasts are considered indecent while other chests are considered fine

candidly the most inoffensive path forward would be to ban the male nipple
 
Valid argument? Not sure. Though as other people have mentioned if they do that they might as well just let everybody be naked everywhere.

It would take some getting used to but I think that's probably what'll happen at some point in the future.
 
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Well the weirdos and the perverts for starters.

Also, what makes you think that i'm OK in seeing YOU without a shirt? ewww
 
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To be clear, I'm also fine with public exposure of genitalia but that has nothing to do with my OP. Breasts are not genitalia and shouldn't be treated as such. It isn't women's fault that their breasts are sexualized, so they shouldn't be penalized for it. Also, it's not for anyone else to decide anyway.
 
Apopheniac said:
What's the difference between options 4 and 1
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The first affirms that women should be able to be able to be topless (regardless of the reason), the last suggests that any other option is irrelevant since we're talking about how someone else should or shouldn't dress.

You could agree with the first and disagree with the last, or you could agree with both, but they don't mean the same thing.
 
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Mekanos said:
Then don't
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bellydrum said:
I think that's the unspoken crux of the OP



I'd suggest just making your point instead of playing devil's advocate. It's hard to discern your standpoint (and therefore hard to discuss it with you) if you're not speaking from your own point of view



What do you mean by this?
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I guess I just get hung up on and annoyed about a half-made argument and want to tease it out in full, but yeah, fine, I don't really have a stake in this and I'm not really interested in stoking conflict so I'll just drop it.
 
Raccoon said:
I guess it's about equality

currently breasts are considered indecent while other chests are considered fine

candidly the most inoffensive path forward would be to ban the male nipple
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Amen, pal. My neighbor is always doing his yard work shirtless. I hate it.
 
Stopdoor said:
I guess I just get hung up on and annoyed about a half-made argument and want to tease it out in full, but yeah, fine, I don't really have a stake in this and I'm not really interested in stoking conflict so I'll just drop it.
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Then why barge in here and waste everyone's time circling around your point if you're going to drop it as soon as it comes out? Jeez. Just have a discussion or don't say anything at all.
 
bellydrum said:
Then why barge in here and waste everyone's time circling around your point if you're going to drop it as soon as it comes out? Jeez. Just have a discussion or don't say anything at all.
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I'm dropping it because I regret saying anything at all, yes. I wish you wouldn't accuse me of "barging in" and to shut up just because I got tempted by the fun of debate, I wasn't trying to be aggressive. Unfortunately, yeah, a dumb topic to get tempted by when the positions can be so misogynistic and you can't tell good intentions online, so egg on my face, sure.
 
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Stopdoor said:
I wish you wouldn't accuse me of "barging in" and to shut up just because I got tempted by the fun of debate, I wasn't trying to be aggressive.
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Well, thanks for clarifying. I'm not worried then.
 
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In light of impending doom climate change I would not mind seeing some more topless women. Freeing the nipple is one of the many changes we'll have to accept. If anything it's imperative due to rising temperatures and humidity.
 
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in a perfect world no one would care how anyone would or wouldn't dress. It's just a body. We all have one.
 
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Granted I'm not from there and not too familiar with the thoughts of people on the ground over there, but there are plenty of European countries where this regularly happens, the populous are adults and they don't get weird about it. The US is a sexually strange country, to begin with. Full of depravity but because of its heavily catholic roots we posture as pure and chaste. That repression has historically led to a shitton of violence and crime. The US could stand to loosen up quite a lot. What's the 30 Rock quote? "you can cut a breast on TV, you just can't kiss it".

And of course, breastfeeding in public, as Derachi mentioned, should be absolutely normalized, especially in a country that just made a huge push to ban abortion nationwide.
 
Christo750 said:
Granted I'm not from there and not too familiar with the thoughts of people on the ground over there, but there are plenty of European countries where this regularly happens, the populous are adults and they don't get weird about it. The US is a sexually strange country, to begin with. Full of depravity but because of its heavily catholic roots we posture as pure and chaste. That repression has historically led to a shitton of violence and crime. The US could stand to loosen up quite a lot. What's the 30 Rock quote? "you can cut a breast on TV, you just can't kiss it".

And of course, breastfeeding in public, as Derachi mentioned, should be absolutely normalized, especially in a country that just made a huge push to ban abortion nationwide.
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Maybe in other European countries but I don't think people in the Netherlands would be really accepting if women would go shirtless.

Personally I don't really care but I don't see it happening here. Wouldn't it also cause some problems with different religions? The Islam for example has more strict rules about seeing women topless. I have a moslim friend who asks me not to use my bikini girls (idolmaster) playmat when we play YuGiOh. So I don't use that one playing him
 
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totofogo said:
I mean, "This isn't anyone's business except the person in question" implies "Yes" - that person should be allowed
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While I agree with your sentiment that it makes the most sense to say "Yes" if you also agree that "This isn't anyone's business except the person in question", logically, it does not follow that "This isn't anyone's business except the person in question" would inherently imply as much. For example, someone might not necessarily care whether something is their business in order to hold an opinion on it. And there is the issue of some people not agreeing with the notion that it's not their business in the first place. Given those hypotheticals, I provided the options that I did in order to better gauge the reasoning behind the options.

And to be clear, everyone is allowed to select up to two options for the above reasons.
 
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Just to add to the the cultural Aspect:

I have a male body, when I first came to Japan I was cycling in Tokyo on a hot summer, took of my shirt due to the heat.
Literally had the police stop me and tell me to put on a shirt.

Looking into the law, many Japanese themselves have been warned, it is an offense on the level of jaywalking, " making some else feel uncomfortable by exposing the top in public situations".

Edit: So "No one should be able to except when swimming" Is a valid option also!
 
I agree, OP.
They’re just breasts, but the problem is more so how do we as a country(American here) change the culture so that people can be adults about it. I can see shirtless women causing a huge scene, and that putting them in danger and or being humiliated. This is a country where grown ass men with wives and children got up and cheered during a serious play that Emilia Clarke starred nude in.😐
 
WolfKiva said:
I agree, OP.
They’re just breasts, but the problem is more so how do we as a country(American here) change the culture so that people can be adults about it. I can see shirtless women causing a huge scene, and that putting them in danger and or being humiliated. This is a country where grown ass men with wives and children got up and cheered during a serious play that Emilia Clarke starred nude in.😐
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If a woman determines it's not worth being topless in public for safety concerns or otherwise, the decision to wear or not wear a top should be up to her, not anyone else. That's basically how I feel about the issue since women should have the same rights as men.

We shouldn't get to decide for women, "since this may not be good for your safety, you're not allowed to be topless." That's just not acceptable.
 
Koyota said:
Just to add to the the cultural Aspect:

I have a male body, when I first came to Japan I was cycling in Tokyo on a hot summer, took of my shirt due to the heat.
Literally had the police stop me and tell me to put on a shirt.

Looking into the law, many Japanese themselves have been warned, it is an offense on the level of jaywalking, " making some else feel uncomfortable by exposing the top in public situations".

Edit: So "No one should be able to except when swimming" Is a valid option also!
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holy shit japan did it

Raccoon said:
candidly the most inoffensive path forward would be to ban the male nipple
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The only argument I can think of is that women with larger breasts need the support of a bra. (so I'm told)
A woman with C or D-cups going for a long hike or a jog would be annoying without the support. (so I'm told)

But yeah they should have the choice for sure, so I am largely just playing devil's advocate here.
 
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It is pretty much due to a preconceived notion that female breasts are somehow more sexual than a male chest. Considering the argument of breasts being sexual can equally be applied to a woman/man checking out a shirtless man they may find attractive...that old way of thinking is rather obsolete in practice however.

So with that in mind, I don't see what the problem would be. If a man doesn't want to be looked at OR doesn't feel comfortable with their shirtless appearance, they can choose to keep their shirt on. If niether of the above bothers them, they can take them it off...they have the option.

Likewise if a woman doesn't want to be checked out for being shirtless OR doesn't feel comfortable with their shirtless appearance, they should have the same option to keep a shirt on or take it off if they don't care. There is literally no reason they should not be able to choose for themselves as there is no difference other than the pre-conceived (and one sided) mindset that a shirtless woman is more sexual than a shirtless man.
 
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I dont know, and i definitely wouldnt think that this is something i should have an opinion on as a straightman. People should do whatever is most comfortable to them, wheather that is with or without a top. And other people shouldn't assume that the latter gives them liberty to be a creep.
 
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brainchild said:
If a woman determines it's not worth being topless in public for safety concerns or otherwise, the decision to wear or not wear a top should be up to her, not anyone else. That's basically how I feel about the issue since women should have the same rights as men.

We shouldn't get to decide for women, "since this may not be good for your safety, you're not allowed to be topless." That's just not acceptable.
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I agree with you 100%, but my comment wasn’t making the decision for women, I was pointing out how as a culture we need to change our outlook on the human body(especially women’s bodies) in order for women to even feel comfortable going topless in public. Hence why I started with “they’re just breast”.
 
Stopdoor said:
Well, follow through the argument, do you have a problem with nudists? Anywhere? Why?
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Late to this, but I'm against this one for sanitation reasons. Don't need everyone's poop stains on every public sitting surface.

Also yes, some would be perfectly clean, but that one guy would ruin it for everyone.
 
I won't be holding my breath waiting for society to grow up anytime soon, but if a male can do it in public so can anyone. It really just boils down to that. Though it might open the door to alot more unsolicited and unwanted compliments I'd imagine. Sorry I'll stop imagining now.
 
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In principle, no reason.

I noticed a couple of posters say that the sex power (for want of a better phrase) of female breasts is a preconceived notion, and that breasts have been sexualised, as if we could somehow trace history back to the moment when this happened and reverse it, or correct the error. Personally I don't see it like that. A lot of the world's population find breasts sexually attractive, and I can't see what difference it makes whether that's cultural or hard-wired in our brains, it's not going away.

A lot of straight women find men's chests attractive. The difference is that women are less able and less likely to overpower and attack a man, if they're filled with lust, than a man is to do that to a woman. I guess that's the reason anti-toplessness became normal in society. Should we reverse it? Only if we could be sure it wouldn't put people in danger. Is it fair women can't act freely without being groped etc.? No, but we've gotta be pragmatic about these things.
 
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