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Discussion How Nintendo Can Bring the Bang for your Buck for the NSO Expansion Pass

Would this be enough to get you to subscribe to the Expansion Pass?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 47.2%

  • No

    Votes: 8 22.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 11 30.6%
  • Total voters
    36
I can't work out if the inclusion of the Animal Crossing DLC was a last minute sweetener when they realised that the price point was awful for just the N64 and Mega Drive games, or if it's part of their new strategy for first party games.
 
0
Add GBA, DS, and even Gamecube games. The price they're asking for pretty much just Nintendo 64 is ridiculous.

(idgaf about Sega games don't @ me)
 
0
There’s many things they could add but I’m not sure they’re going to when you can essentially get everything for 10 bucks/year (and it isn’t even particularly difficult to do). Just fix the emulation issues, add more systems and have a regular release schedule.
 
0
I like the idea about music but not if it's only on Switch or some bad app they developed. DLC is kinda eh because there's a good chance I don't play or own those games anymore. An exclusive game's value to me is completely theoretical because there's a good chance I won't want to play it. And, lastly, I don't buy Nintendo games digitally most of the time so those discounts are of no value to me. Maybe double gold points gain instead?

What they could do is make it cost less money. More realistically, add additional (old) games and (old) systems at a regular schedule as well as video and screenshot uploading to cloud. I think those are very general things that lots of people will be able to get use out of and arguably should've been there anyway to justify the price they're asking.
 
Last edited:
0
Realistically there isn't a single 'thing' Nintendo should do. They've made the decision to cobble together disparate elements into a subscription package, and that's now the bed they need to lie in. That means they need to improve the existing elements - better online infrastructure for multiplayer, better emulation on the N64, continued rollout of classic games and online multiplayer games - while looking at what other elements can fit into that package.

I'm wondering how far we are off getting the GameBoy. Eurogamer reported - and I think they were citing our very own @MondoMega - that the NSO emulators are numbered 1 to 5, with Mega Drive being 5, and NES, SNES and N64 being 1 to 3. That means emulator number 4 is yet to be added, and given the chat early last month, that's surely GameBoy. An easy thing to do to assuage people over the next 6 months would be to patch and improve the N64 offering, and then throw another system into the expansion pack. But they might also stick to the irritatingly glacial rollout and wait until next October to add GameBoy.

Right now the expansion pack is chiefly defined by the retro offering, so I wonder if that's what they'll aim to improve first. They may well have other plans, of course.
 
0
Well, i've got a whole post with this premise that I could bring over from Era. It's from before the Expansion Pack actually launched and we saw the state of N64 emulation though, so i'll have to make some, uh... changes. Here goes:


Preferably online play and cloud saves would be a free service available to everyone, but Nintendo will never be that generous so i'll have to limit myself somewhat. Here's how i'd pitch the contents of an improved NSO:

qT7b8Mn.png


Online Play:
  • Implement dedicated servers for popular titles like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and Splatoon 3.
  • Ensure upcoming titles use the NPLN netplay library in place of the outdated NEX; update major / popular titles to make use of it too.
  • Update existing titles to support the invite / party system added in late 2019.
  • Add support for messaging friends (available for everyone) and voice chat (NSO subscribers only) through the Switch OS.
Save Data Cloud:
  • Create a better solution for titles like Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Splatoon and any others that don't currently support cloud saves.
  • Allow local save back-ups via USB, available for everyone.
Smartphone App:
  • Make the Japan-only My Nintendo app available worldwide. Technically not an NSO-only feature, but I still want it.
Special Offers:
  • Make vouchers available to purchase in the US and territories tied to it (as they're still available everywhere else).
  • Create a public schedule for Game Trials, so subscribers know what games will be up next in the rotation while the current one is available.
  • Relaunch Super Mario Bros. 35, expanded to include The Lost Levels and Super Mario Bros. 3 as additional modes.
    • Keep making NSO-exclusive software of that nature. Don't always have to be battle-royale elimination style games if they want to experiment with something else; the criteria is really just free-to-play games where the main component is online only.
Expand Your Experience:
  • Upcoming downloadable content for major Nintendo Switch titles (Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Monster Hunter Rise, Mario Party Superstars, Splatoon 3, the sequel to The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, etc) should be free to keep for all Expansion Pack subscribers.
    • If it's too generous to have all that content readily available for new subs years from now, have them only available to redeem for 3-6 month periods; you still keep them if you redeem them in that time.
    • You may also have to limit the amount of times an item can be redeemed from the same Family Group to eight, like the Splatoon 2 gear codes; so you can't just keep adding people to give anyone the DLC content for free.
Nintendo Studio:
  • Unlimited access to music from Nintendo titles spanning their entire catelogue of systems, available on both Nintendo Switch systems and a dedicated mobile app. Listen to your favourite playlists in-game if those titles support the feature.
  • Produce new video content available for subscribers, including brand new animations based on Nintendo series (think the Kid Icarus, Pikmin and Star Fox shorts during the 3DS/Wii U era) and a series of developer interviews / mini-documentaries (like the videos produced for Rare Replay) going in-depth on the development of past Nintendo titles with previously unseen pre-release content.
Online Classics:
  • The base Nintendo Switch Online sub includes Game Boy in addition to the already available NES and SNES.
    • Game Boy titles will support a ton of features; the biggest of which being Game Boy Color / Super Game Boy display modes and online Link Cable support. Pokemon Pinball and Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble will also be rereleased for the first time, with emulation of the rumble and accelerometer features built into the original cartridges.
  • The NES and SNES libraries will continue to be expanded too. Features like PAL versions and four-player support should retroactively be made available for supported Super Nintendo and Game Boy titles.
    • NES Zapper (Duck Hunt, Wild Gunman, Hogan's Alley), SNES Mouse (Mario Paint, Mario & Wario) and Super Scope (Super Scope 6, Yoshi's Safari, Battle Clash, Metal Combat) titles should be made available for their respective systems, with new control methods utilising gyro and touch.
    • Get around to releasing the remaining first-party titles for NES and SNES. Fan-favourites like Earthbound and Super Mario RPG, in addition to lesser known titles like Devil World and Sutte Hakkun. There's still a lot missing, even titles like Mach Rider and Murasame Castle.
  • The Expansion Pack includes Game Boy Advance in addition to Nintendo 64 and Mega Drive, with the promise of more platform(s) being added for no additional cost in the future (can't decide on what would be the next reasonable step).
    • Nintendo 64 emulation needs to be adjusted. Fix visual errors in titles like Ocarina of Time and Yoshi's Story; work on reducing input lag; and properly enable support for the Controller Pak in compatible games (Mario Kart 64, Win Back, etc).
    • Nintendo 64 should support Transfer Pak emulation (including the first-ever rerelease of Pokemon Stadium, which can connect to the Game Boy app) and Nintendo 64DD titles (with F-Zero X: Expansion Kit being available alongside the regular cartridge release).
  • The update schedule should return to being monthly; alternating each month between updates for the base sub platforms (NES / SNES / GB) and updates for the Expansion Pack platforms (N64 / GBA / MD / ???).
  • With the increased subscription price, licencing deals should be worked out with publishers like Capcom, Konami, Bandai Namco and Square Enix to allow more of their titles to join the service, as those seem to be the biggest holes in the lineup based on fan feedback.
With a service like this i'd be a lot more willing to pay the current offering price.


I will add; there's proof in the most recent Switch firmware updates that Nintendo are slowly working on implementing My Nintendo Missions as a Switch firmware feature, for Switch software, and that's likely to have some NSO implementation in some form. Looking forward to seeing how that turns out, because people have been asking for an achievements system for a long time now.

Of course, my big dream hopes for the retro game service are probably too unreasonable, and i'd be content enough with the above. I'll still share them anyway though!
  • Completely relaunch the service as one uniform international app with all titles more easily accessible. Easier game browsing; more convenient for online play sessions; and access to the full library of games from the JP / International apps, with language options more naturally intergrated into the UI.
  • Nintendo Archive; a service where previously unreleased games, limited-time releases and trade show demos are made available (again) for the first time; Satellaview titles, Sound Fantasy, Mother 3 Spaceworld 1999 Demo, etc. You could see it as a digital companion to the 'Nintendo Gallery' museum set to open in Japan.
 
I see the suggestion that people with a sub should be able to keep expansions and have a genuine question, because it's been several years since I was subscribed to Xbox Live and I've never had a paid PSN sub.

If you download something from the Games with Gold selection, or the PSN Plus games, is that yours to keep, or is it only yours so long as you're subscribed?
 
I just don't really want a subscription service if I don't have to.

The lack of quality classic titles on a consistent basis, the lack of normal features in online (party invites [ya, its in some, but not most], voice chat, etc...), vouchers are gone in the US for no reason, N64 titles being held hostage for more than double the price while apparently being poorly emulated, etc...

Like why buy into this service other than online is being held hostage as well. The only thing that made it bearable was that it was cheap compared to the others. But seriously, its the worst value, especially with the expansion pass. The expansion pass shouldn't exist.
 
Aigis said:
I just don't really want a subscription service if I don't have to.

The lack of quality classic titles on a consistent basis, the lack of normal features in online (party invites [ya, its in some, but not most], voice chat, etc...), vouchers are gone in the US for no reason, N64 titles being held hostage for more than double the price while apparently being poorly emulated, etc...

Like why buy into this service other than online is being held hostage as well. The only thing that made it bearable was that it was cheap compared to the others. But seriously, its the worst value, especially with the expansion pass. The expansion pass shouldn't exist.
Click to expand...

What's the (realistic) alternative here? No N64 and Mega Drive games at all? Price hike for the base NSO subscription?
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
What's the (realistic) alternative here? No N64 and Mega Drive games at all? Price hike for the base NSO subscription?
Click to expand...
Add N64 to the existing sub with no price change.

If the Mega Drive stuff is a licensing issue, make that a separate expansion for people who want it.

You can't convince me that decades old games are worth bumping the price up double. Especially when the NES/SNES well has been dry for a while and you're looking to update with fresh content. Especially with the hindsight that they did a bad job getting the N64 titles to run on switch.
 
Aigis said:
Add N64 to the existing sub with no price change.

If the Mega Drive stuff is a licensing issue, make that a separate expansion for people who want it.

You can't convince me that decades old games are worth bumping the price up double. Especially when the NES/SNES well has been dry for a while and you're looking to update with fresh content. Especially with the hindsight that they did a bad job getting the N64 titles to run on switch.
Click to expand...

The revenue generated from the base subscription wasn’t even enough to get Capcom, Square Enix or Konami on board aside from some minor titles. The way they've handled NSO so far makes it pretty obvious that they wouldn't have bothered with N64 games at all if it weren't for the Expansion Pack. Whether the current price is justified is a different question (I'd argue it isn't but it's mitigated somewhat by "exploiting" the Family Subscription) but it's either Expansion Pack and N64 games or no Expansion Pack and no N64 games. Edit: Or a price hike for the base subscription. This way at least you aren't forced to buy the higher tier if you just want online play.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
The revenue generated from the base subscription wasn’t even enough to get Capcom, Square Enix or Konami on board aside from some minor titles. The way they've handled NSO so far makes it pretty obvious that they wouldn't have bothered with N64 games at all if it weren't for the Expansion Pack. Whether the current price is justified is a different question (I'd argue it isn't but it's mitigated somewhat by "exploiting" the Family Subscription) but it's either Expansion Pack and N64 games or no Expansion Pack and no N64 games. Edit: Or a price hike for the base subscription. This way at least you aren't forced to buy the higher tier if you just want online play.
Click to expand...
If its issues with licensing, make the expansion pass for 3rd party titles and the base for Nintendo games.

As much as I want to play some N64 on my switch, the pricing makes no sense for what you get. I find it hard to believe Nintendo wasn't profiting off of NSO before when its basically free money for them when they offer nothing.
 
MondoMega said:
The Expansion Pack includes Game Boy Advance in addition to Nintendo 64 and Mega Drive, with the promise of more platform(s) being added for no additional cost in the future (can't decide on what would be the next reasonable step)
Click to expand...
Master System and TurboGrafx seem like the obvious next steps after GBA. Gamecube would be great but I have to wonder if they're worried about file sizes for that given the base and Lite only have 32 GB built-in.
 
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Aigis said:
If its issues with licensing, make the expansion pass for 3rd party titles and the base for Nintendo games.

As much as I want to play some N64 on my switch, the pricing makes no sense for what you get. I find it hard to believe Nintendo wasn't profiting off of NSO before when its basically free money for them when they offer nothing.
Click to expand...

We're essentially arguing about two different things here. I agree with you that base NSO isn't good value for the money and that they're easily profiting from it... just not enough to get others on board. Splitting the subscription into Nintendo games and non-Nintendo games defeats the entire point of these services which is why you don't see Netflix offer a "Netflix Originals" subscription either.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
We're essentially arguing about two different things here. I agree with you that base NSO isn't good value for the money and that they're easily profiting from it... just not enough to get others on board. Splitting the subscription into Nintendo games and non-Nintendo games defeats the entire point of these services which is why you don't see Netflix offer a "Netflix Originals" subscription either.
Click to expand...
I'm saying I am in it mostly for the Nintendo offerings. If 3rd party is causing it to skyrocket in price, I'd rather not have those games at all. The way it's set up now, I'm not paying that much more for decades old games. Right now I'm not getting Nintendo or 3rd party content because they bumped the price so high.
 
Aside from GB/GBA, they just need to add PC Engine and PC Engine CD, and Sega CD and I’d be more than satisfied.

Before the expansion, I personally thought that 20 bucks a year was a great value for NES and SNES, and they had excellent emulation. The drip feed sucks, sure, but outside of some questionable titles like Jelly Boy and Claymates and some select others, it had not just classics but a lot of deep cuts and obscure bangers that I would never have played otherwise because I wouldn’t have paid 5 bucks for Vice Project Doom when I would have bought Link to the Past instead.

Now as for the drip feed, it’s tough. Because once you start running out of first party games, all the major third party games just won’t happen when Square would rather you pay 15 bucks for Final Fantasy 6 directly from them.

According to Emily Rogers, it seems Nintendo had to pay Sega a pretty penny to get them added to the service, and I think it won’t be economically feasible. Sure Capcom will give us Demons Crest, but it’s not a series that Capcom considers a must have they can package together like the Mega Man collection.

And I think that part is what people need to come to grips with. Square will never give us Chrono Trigger. Konami won’t give us Super Castlevania 4.

We got Bloodlines on the Genesis NSO app I imagine because it was included with the Sega deal.

But on the base plan, I think there are lots of fantastic games that get dismissed because it’s not Donkey King Country or the initial roll out that was similar to the mini.

I would love SNES Sim City, which IMO is the best version of the original since it is so unique… but EA won’t give that to us.
 
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I like those ideas, especially because of the way Nintendo handles copyrighting their IPs. They should really make NSO a platform where you get the authentic Nintendo experience through legal means.

And yeah, some other basic features like VC/Messaging.
 
0
Aigis said:
I'm saying I am in it mostly for the Nintendo offerings. If 3rd party is causing it to skyrocket in price, I'd rather not have those games at all. The way it's set up now, I'm not paying that much more for decades old games. Right now I'm not getting Nintendo or 3rd party content because they bumped the price so high.
Click to expand...

That's fine, then the service isn't for you. They should offer these games separately anyway, the way MS does.
 
MisterSpo said:
I see the suggestion that people with a sub should be able to keep expansions and have a genuine question, because it's been several years since I was subscribed to Xbox Live and I've never had a paid PSN sub.

If you download something from the Games with Gold selection, or the PSN Plus games, is that yours to keep, or is it only yours so long as you're subscribed?
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure you keep them with Xbox, but lose them with Playstation.
 
MondoMega said:
I will add; there's proof in the most recent Switch firmware updates that Nintendo are slowly working on implementing My Nintendo Missions as a Switch firmware feature, for Switch software, and that's likely to have some NSO implementation in some form. Looking forward to seeing how that turns out, because people have been asking for an achievements system for a long time now.
Click to expand...
Where could I read about these firmware updates? This sounds really interesting!
 
0
I'll be honest, I'd be more insulted that Nintendo gatekeeps their OSTs behind a $65 a year subscription via a dedicated app (or godforbid actually carrying your switch around) instead of just uploading the soundtracks to Spotify/Apple+/Tidal/Amazon/whatever.

But everything @MondoMega listed? C'est magnifique
MondoMega said:
Well, i've got a whole post with this premise that I could bring over from Era. It's from before the Expansion Pack actually launched and we saw the state of N64 emulation though, so i'll have to make some, uh... changes. Here goes:


Preferably online play and cloud saves would be a free service available to everyone, but Nintendo will never be that generous so i'll have to limit myself somewhat. Here's how i'd pitch the contents of an improved NSO:

qT7b8Mn.png


Online Play:
  • Implement dedicated servers for popular titles like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and Splatoon 3.
  • Ensure upcoming titles use the NPLN netplay library in place of the outdated NEX; update major / popular titles to make use of it too.
  • Update existing titles to support the invite / party system added in late 2019.
  • Add support for messaging friends (available for everyone) and voice chat (NSO subscribers only) through the Switch OS.
Save Data Cloud:
  • Create a better solution for titles like Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Splatoon and any others that don't currently support cloud saves.
  • Allow local save back-ups via USB, available for everyone.
Smartphone App:
  • Make the Japan-only My Nintendo app available worldwide. Technically not an NSO-only feature, but I still want it.
Special Offers:
  • Make vouchers available to purchase in the US and territories tied to it (as they're still available everywhere else).
  • Create a public schedule for Game Trials, so subscribers know what games will be up next in the rotation while the current one is available.
  • Relaunch Super Mario Bros. 35, expanded to include The Lost Levels and Super Mario Bros. 3 as additional modes.
    • Keep making NSO-exclusive software of that nature. Don't always have to be battle-royale elimination style games if they want to experiment with something else; the criteria is really just free-to-play games where the main component is online only.
Expand Your Experience:
  • Upcoming downloadable content for major Nintendo Switch titles (Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Monster Hunter Rise, Mario Party Superstars, Splatoon 3, the sequel to The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, etc) should be free to keep for all Expansion Pack subscribers.
    • If it's too generous to have all that content readily available for new subs years from now, have them only available to redeem for 3-6 month periods; you still keep them if you redeem them in that time.
    • You may also have to limit the amount of times an item can be redeemed from the same Family Group to eight, like the Splatoon 2 gear codes; so you can't just keep adding people to give anyone the DLC content for free.
Nintendo Studio:
  • Unlimited access to music from Nintendo titles spanning their entire catelogue of systems, available on both Nintendo Switch systems and a dedicated mobile app. Listen to your favourite playlists in-game if those titles support the feature.
  • Produce new video content available for subscribers, including brand new animations based on Nintendo series (think the Kid Icarus, Pikmin and Star Fox shorts during the 3DS/Wii U era) and a series of developer interviews / mini-documentaries (like the videos produced for Rare Replay) going in-depth on the development of past Nintendo titles with previously unseen pre-release content.
Online Classics:
  • The base Nintendo Switch Online sub includes Game Boy in addition to the already available NES and SNES.
    • Game Boy titles will support a ton of features; the biggest of which being Game Boy Color / Super Game Boy display modes and online Link Cable support. Pokemon Pinball and Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble will also be rereleased for the first time, with emulation of the rumble and accelerometer features built into the original cartridges.
  • The NES and SNES libraries will continue to be expanded too. Features like PAL versions and four-player support should retroactively be made available for supported Super Nintendo and Game Boy titles.
    • NES Zapper (Duck Hunt, Wild Gunman, Hogan's Alley), SNES Mouse (Mario Paint, Mario & Wario) and Super Scope (Super Scope 6, Yoshi's Safari, Battle Clash, Metal Combat) titles should be made available for their respective systems, with new control methods utilising gyro and touch.
    • Get around to releasing the remaining first-party titles for NES and SNES. Fan-favourites like Earthbound and Super Mario RPG, in addition to lesser known titles like Devil World and Sutte Hakkun. There's still a lot missing, even titles like Mach Rider and Murasame Castle.
  • The Expansion Pack includes Game Boy Advance in addition to Nintendo 64 and Mega Drive, with the promise of more platform(s) being added for no additional cost in the future (can't decide on what would be the next reasonable step).
    • Nintendo 64 emulation needs to be adjusted. Fix visual errors in titles like Ocarina of Time and Yoshi's Story; work on reducing input lag; and properly enable support for the Controller Pak in compatible games (Mario Kart 64, Win Back, etc).
    • Nintendo 64 should support Transfer Pak emulation (including the first-ever rerelease of Pokemon Stadium, which can connect to the Game Boy app) and Nintendo 64DD titles (with F-Zero X: Expansion Kit being available alongside the regular cartridge release).
  • The update schedule should return to being monthly; alternating each month between updates for the base sub platforms (NES / SNES / GB) and updates for the Expansion Pack platforms (N64 / GBA / MD / ???).
  • With the increased subscription price, licencing deals should be worked out with publishers like Capcom, Konami, Bandai Namco and Square Enix to allow more of their titles to join the service, as those seem to be the biggest holes in the lineup based on fan feedback.
With a service like this i'd be a lot more willing to pay the current offering price.


I will add; there's proof in the most recent Switch firmware updates that Nintendo are slowly working on implementing My Nintendo Missions as a Switch firmware feature, for Switch software, and that's likely to have some NSO implementation in some form. Looking forward to seeing how that turns out, because people have been asking for an achievements system for a long time now.

Of course, my big dream hopes for the retro game service are probably too unreasonable, and i'd be content enough with the above. I'll still share them anyway though!
  • Completely relaunch the service as one uniform international app with all titles more easily accessible. Easier game browsing; more convenient for online play sessions; and access to the full library of games from the JP / International apps, with language options more naturally intergrated into the UI.
  • Nintendo Archive; a service where previously unreleased games, limited-time releases and trade show demos are made available (again) for the first time; Satellaview titles, Sound Fantasy, Mother 3 Spaceworld 1999 Demo, etc. You could see it as a digital companion to the 'Nintendo Gallery' museum set to open in Japan.
Click to expand...

There are a great number of things here that I want to see even without paying a ridiculous subscription fee, but it would be such an improvement that I'd feel more confident in supporting the Expansion Pass in a way that I could see myself trusting Nintendo to do better in adding to their online fare. Specifically, updating their previous games to support dedicated NPLN servers instead of peer-to-peer connections, and incorporating party invites (how they made it a feature for third parties like Overcooked and yet even their recent releases don't utilize it is beyond ridiculous). Even something like a messaging app if they decide to paywall voice chat, using the MyNintendo app to send messages to make the act of typing a not nearly as painful experience would be a blessing.

Vouchers need to return to North America as a whole. I never did get any myself because the games it was accessible for I already owned or had no interest in getting, but I would have used them more frequently now. The public schedule for GameTrials I cannot support enough; just regular updates along with the retro consoles to know what's coming up with at least a little more heads up than two or three days and knowing that it's being actively supported.

I've made my stance clear on the music, but the video clips of their Pikmin/StarFox shorts would be pretty great and easy to access. That being said I don't doubt it'll be just as easy to pirate and upload to YouTube, but maybe some kind of exclusive features like watch parties would be fun.
 
0
of those i would only care about the discounts , otherwise i just want gb/gbc/gba nso already and probably for there to be more expansions added in the future .
 
0
I don't think a lot needs to be added to the $20 subscription tier. It's a total steal for what it is.

The exclusive DLCs so long as they're sold separately are a great incentive to go for the Expansion Pack. But realistically, the only thing I'd like is the discounts. I'm honestly surprised that hasn't happened already.

Otherwise, just further improvements to their online infrastructure, an eShop that isn't so slow, etc.
 
0
On the retro console side of things, they would have to add more platforms* and increase the frequency of game additions, even for the platforms included in the base tier.

You make people pay more, start shelling out for Konamis and Capcoms to put their Mega Mans and Catlevanias up.

* - Wanna turn some heads? Get SEGA on board to put Dreamcast up.
 
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