If it will be or not, I find to be a pointless discussion tbh.
The discussion should rather be about "how".
Cause the idea that they can't implement it if they want to, is ridiculous.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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The discussion should rather be about "how".
Cause the idea that they can't implement it if they want to, is ridiculous.
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Yes. Heck, even lower-res screens are still in production. Amazon’s Fire 7 tablet has 600 lines of resolution, because it’s cheap as chips.
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But chips do taste better.
kimbo99
Spirit Detective
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I get what you're saying but it's a Future Hardware speculation thread, meaning there is no limit to what we can speculate.
Apopheniac
Monolith Soft action game truther
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Looking back, it's honestly impressive how well Nintendo was able to maintain design continuity with its handheld systems, both within and across the GameBoy and DS brands, and even more impressive that they followed up over a decade of that by bungling the Wii U.
When you open the 3DS box, you see a plastic rectangle of similar size to DS line. You open the clamshell and everything from the DS is there: two screens, stylus for the bottom screen, dpad, all the buttons, card slot. If you owned a DSi, your AC adapters will still work here, you'll recognize the system menu's layout and navigation, and any DSiWare can be transferred so it shows up on the 3DS menu. Pop a DS card into the slot and it'll come up on the menu, same as with any of the new 3DS games. The most significant change is that the dpad has been shifted downward in favor of the circle pad, but the circle pad will do everything the dpad did – you can even use it to control DS games. The 3D screen, gyro control, and AR camera are all additive features to the existing DS featureset, and if you had to trade in your old DS or give it to your little brother in order to buy the 3DS, you can rest assured that your DS backlog is still waiting for you.
Now the console team has decided they want to do a similar style of follow-up to their own seventh-gen device, so what's the Wii U gonna do? For starters, its flagship controller is no longer the Wii Remote, but the big honkin Wii U GamePad. This thing looks more like a 3DS bloated into a controller than it does like anything on the Wii, but it won't actually play games on the go. To set this up, you've got to make room for this thing's charging cradle, plus the system itself. No more cool vertical stand, this console is rounded so it can't be mounted vertically without assistance. You boot it up and the TV shows, uhhh, something? Where's all the games and stuff? They're on the GamePad, in a menu that looks like the 3DS system menu and controls in the same way. Huh. Okay, if I put in a Wii disc, it... shows an icon for the Wii menu? It boots into the Wii instead of playing it directly? Why not just play this on a Wii and skip opening the Wii U menu if it doesn't support the new controller? I can display the game on the controller, but my sensor bar's still by the TV, and the controller buttons won't work.
Vash
Tears of the Kingdom Enjoyer
games probably gonna look and run horrible on the switchI don't know how Hogwarts Legacy could run on a Switch if the PC has this requirements:
Ram, storage... How?
For example, this is for The Witcher 3:
I'm convinced that they know about a Switch 2 or pro and that is why they release it 5 months later (when the next model comes out).
SiG
Chain Chomp
And the leather jacket is actually raytraced...
And so is Miyamoto's and Aonuma's shirts, apparently!
Teal'c
Shriekbat
I am not a developer so my idea is only based on what my eyes see, but I don't understand why Hogwarts Legacy should be a title that only runs well on Drake.
If I'm not mistaken it's based on Unreal Engine 4 which, if put in the right hands, can return good results even on Switch base, last example ARK.
This is to say that the delayed release may have nothing to do with next gen.
(The non-announcement of Batman ports on the other hand... )
If I'm not mistaken it's based on Unreal Engine 4 which, if put in the right hands, can return good results even on Switch base, last example ARK.
This is to say that the delayed release may have nothing to do with next gen.
(The non-announcement of Batman ports on the other hand... )
D
Deleted member 887
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MVG makes emulators for a living, and his work is quite good. MVG is a smart guy who knows his shit, and I consistently disagree with him 
That's not a criticism, by any means. You work in tech, and everyone is smart and knows their shit and they still disagree.
Shaders are a particularly nasty emulation problem, and we have strong evidence that Nvidia isn't solving the problem in hardware. It'll be interesting to see what route they take. But it would be wild to have hardware as similar as Drake and TX1 and not do backwards compat. Nintendo has only broken the backwards compat chain once in the last 20 years (the Switch itself) and every statement they've made indicates they don't want to do it again.
That's not a criticism, by any means. You work in tech, and everyone is smart and knows their shit and they still disagree. Shaders are a particularly nasty emulation problem, and we have strong evidence that Nvidia isn't solving the problem in hardware. It'll be interesting to see what route they take. But it would be wild to have hardware as similar as Drake and TX1 and not do backwards compat. Nintendo has only broken the backwards compat chain once in the last 20 years (the Switch itself) and every statement they've made indicates they don't want to do it again.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Seems like the most reasonable assumption. Though if it's confirmed...
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wolftendo
Shiny hunter wolf
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I also don't believe we won't see some BC implementation in Drake. Especially with how successful the switch was, thus granting the perfect excuse for an upgrade from existing customers.
I've always wondered though how did the PS4 and Xbox one get away with ditching BC though. I know the technical reasons (architectures and all) but you're average Joe didn't really understand that, and yet it didn't become a "PR suicide" or something as dramatic as people claim will happen if the switch doesn't include BC. In fact, PlayStation kept releasing "definitive editions" and "remasters" of late-gen PS3 games at full price and they sold like hotcakes... If you asked anyone in this forum if it would be a good idea to re-release a TOTK 4k remaster a year after the original released, they would look at you like you said your favorite food is wet dirt.
I mean, the Wii U was the only system of 8th gen that offered BC and was by far the worst selling.
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I unironically believe the reveal will be this financial year, and February seems as good a time as any. All systems are go.
As before, I believe this because I have heard some evidence to it and no evidence to the contrary.
Now I'm gonna predict it:
February 1st: teaser.
February 2nd: reveal
February 7th: Direct (in 4K)
Awesomegames23
Irony
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Kise Ryota
Then I'll say "I told ya"
But the IR camera at the back of the joycon wouldn't be usable. On the wii you didn't have shoulder buttons. With the ring you don't lose access to any button
If you mean Teaser as in Tweet
Reveal is the trailer drop
Direct the full information of launch lineup, price, release date, pre orders etc then I agree.
However I do think there will be a bigger gap between reveal trailer drop and the Direct. 2 weeks would be the right amount of time.
If revealed before March they will also have GDC to talk to developers
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
There has been some chatter about tech that would use the dock as a fixed point, and use RF instead of light. I believe Apple has some similar tech?
But this, like the screencasting chat, are mostly just pipe dreams. They'd also, obviously, require redesigning the dock, which some folks think is unlikely.
Just spitballing, but I don't think the idea of having your digital library always go with you to your next device, was that ingrained in the public consciousness at that time. I know the iPhone came out 6 years before, but still.
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Or like trying to use DLSS to go from 240p to 4k
D36
#ITSXENOVER
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When you say it won't repeat, do you mean it won't be limited by BC, or that it won't have BC in general?
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Some folks, eh? Is that what I am?
Joking aside, I think if they wanted to go harder on Joy-Con motion controls, inside-out controller tracking would be the way to go. However there isn't much room on the Joy-Con that isn't covered by the user's hand while in use. There is, I think, enough, however. The ToF/camera sensors would fit beside the L/R button next to the rail and at the bottom next to the rail without being blocked by the hand of the user, and two of these would be adequate for inside-out tracking of such a small device.
While I genuinely don't expect new controllers for the new device, my HOPES would be:
Hall effect or optical sticks. (Present in Dreamcast and N64 respectively.)
Pressure and touch sensitive ZL/ZR (as opposed to analogue, since this provides the same input or near enough without using substantially more internal space.)
Magnetometer to increase gyro accuracy, and
Inside-out tracking as described above, assisted by improved gyro and magnetometer.
Pro Controller should also adopt all of these, of course, though maybe it could use full travel triggers rather than just pressure sensitivity, with an analogue click when it bottoms out.
Goodtwin
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I agree. I understand that because the NVN API does allow developers to code very close to the metal that switching to a new architecture would break compatibility, but its without question that NVN2 could support a compatibility layer to work around this. The ARM57 cores used the ARMv8 instruction set and the A78 cores support the direction extension of that with ARMv8.1. CPU compatibility should be a non issue.
Unlikely he has any development materials at this point. Nintendo will be very selective with who has access to Switch 2 development hardware prior to the hardware being announced. Nintendo will want to avoid a flood of ports to Switch 2 at launch and will be selective with who will be ready with software so they have good visibility. A long time strong Indie developer like Shin'en could development kits, but Indies as a whole will likely be left in the cold until after the hardware is announced.
wrong thread. also, this demo was already out in japan, so it's weird they're releasing it now in the west
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I think a compressed marketing schedule for this device is likely, and unlike Switch 1 which already had games confirmed for it before it was even revealed, they'll want to show what games are coming to it ASAP.
I also believe this fiscal year because they and/or Nvidia will want to do the rounds with it at GDC, as you said.
oops
Lancelot
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Just saying, but do you have the slightest idea of how big this jump is? Even when ignoring the raw TFLOPS increase Drake has over the Switch (which is still several times in handheld over docked Switch clocks), the architecture jump is still pretty massive and will possibly have three times the RAM, two times the cores (easily twice as fast by themselves), and six times the GPU cores. That's not accounting the RT cores, DLSS cores and I/O decompression chip it'll have, so... Any Drake exclusive using the hardware is impossible on the Switch period, especially if it's cheating with resolutions that would translate to 240p on the Switch (along with the massive asset downgrades to even hold that ceiling). The Witcher 3 port will be a joke compared to the ports you're suggesting, and that already destroyed the PS4/One game as it is.
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Stinky Horse
Bob-omb
Except not, because Jensen was on stage in Tokyo for GTC Japan in 2018 and 2017
There is no data to interpolate, only bullshit
Kise Ryota
Then I'll say "I told ya"
I like the idea of a camera on the front of the tablet so I could still take advantage of the better tracking even on tabletop mode (which a use quite a lot)
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Hah! While I was thinking of you, it was not a diss!
Even two cameras is probably overkill for pointer controls. You don't need 360 degrees of high res tracking like in VR, you only need high res for the fixed viewing angle of the TV. That's why I was thinking an RF (or higher frequency) signal to the dock would be sufficient, you really just need something to autocalibrate the existing gyro pointer.
This is basically my wish list as well. Though the one I want most - and not even for me, exactly - is the pressure sensitive triggers. If Nintendo builds that into the Joy-Con, then games will be built to use those controls, and for gamers who really want/need travel, aftermarket controllers would provide the full experience. But if Nintendo doesn't build even a crappy version into the base controller, support in games would be basically non-existent.
I'm in a similar boat with hall-effect sticks. I want Nintendo to improve the drift situation out of principle, and they absolutely should. But I'm going to get aftermarket sticks for other reasons anyway, I'm happy to pay a premium for that. If improved graphite sticks reduce the problem and keep cost down, I'm not going to be mad.
Everyone's hands are different shapes, everyone plays different games. Nintendo's form-factor will be a compromise, and developers will target the base controller. So what I most want to see is a more robust series of inputs, I can fit the controller to my hand with third party-products, but I can't force developers to support third party control schemes.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Yeah.
The BC discussion in general (throughout the web, not here - but here sometimes) has left a bad taste in my mouth. Folks have been using the Wii U / 3DS to Switch transition and Nintendo's bungling of legacy content (which isn't related to platform BC) as surefire reasons why Nintendo is either incapable of implementing it or will choose not to in favor of $70 ports. The persistent misinformation of Nintendo 'rarely or never' doing BC hasn't helped. When Miyamoto talked about BC being 'easier than ever' the discussions elsewhere about that interview so hilariously misinterpreted and twisted what he said.
There's this pervasive assumption that it 'won't' happen and we'd be lucky to get it 'because Nintendo'. Which is a frustrating argument to rationalize against because it 'may happen anyway, you never know what Nintendo will do'. Well, I know Nintendo is a business who has a history of BC, especially in their portables, as part of their strategy of bringing people to their new consoles and maintaining a large library of available games.
Even if the next console isn't a Switch (doubtful, seems ill-advised to drop this brand after just 7 years, and the leak indicates an NX platform), I expect compatibility with Switch games. It's reasonable to expect due to the nature of Switch games, working with a single screen and a standard control layout.
It's worth discussing how they'll achieve it (and I quoted Thraktor's post on a previous page which suggests shader modifications to Drake as part of their solution) but it feels like an overblown concern in general.
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
Weird. Late demo. I have that game since release.
Dolce
I am the Mover of Planets
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I am 100% aware of what it is. Nintendo would be developing for the Switch first, and then pushing 4k/60, or whichever combo they can hit, in the drake versions with improved draw distances, higher res textures and the like.
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
I mean, "Prepare for Disappointment" is MVG's middle name. I feel like 95% of his answers to Nate's questions are "no".
Nate: "What do you think MVG? Is this something that could happen? You think this/that is likely?"
(ex. Silent Hill revival, Drake-Switch BC non-HW based solution or even BC at all, what if Nintendo doesn't do a Direct or throws a wrench in things
MVG: "No, no I don't think so, Nate. I just don't see it happening, unfortunately."
Skepticism is fine, but I'm having trouble remembering the last time MVG agreed with Nate or said "yes" to a big, loaded yes-or-no question. I'm just curious as to why he seems to be such a "glass half empty" kind of guy. I think another thing to note is that ScriesM was the one (and I believe the only one to this day) to initially bring up the shader issue. Would BC on Drake even be a talking point if he hadn't brought it up in the first place?
Nate: "What do you think MVG? Is this something that could happen? You think this/that is likely?"
(ex. Silent Hill revival, Drake-Switch BC non-HW based solution or even BC at all, what if Nintendo doesn't do a Direct or throws a wrench in things
MVG: "No, no I don't think so, Nate. I just don't see it happening, unfortunately."
Skepticism is fine, but I'm having trouble remembering the last time MVG agreed with Nate or said "yes" to a big, loaded yes-or-no question. I'm just curious as to why he seems to be such a "glass half empty" kind of guy. I think another thing to note is that ScriesM was the one (and I believe the only one to this day) to initially bring up the shader issue. Would BC on Drake even be a talking point if he hadn't brought it up in the first place?
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The reason I would much prefer 2 over just one (and wait, why would the emitter be in the dock? It has to work in Tabletop Mode too, so it would be along the top edge of the console! No dock redesign needed
) is well, one, tabletop mode as I just said, and two, so you don't actually have to have it pointed anywhere near the TV for it to work. That's a benefit of Gyro pointers over IR, they're direction agnostic and that makes them more comfortable to use, and you never have to rearrange a room for them. You can lay down on the couch with the Joy-Con pointing wherever and still have accurate pointer controls. Dragging us back to a time where motion controls need a fixed frame of reference is not ideal, I don't think. Two sensors front and back provide loads of information and are cheap as chips, just look at optical mouse solutions. While yes, they have a known fixed distance to work with making it easier for them, these sensors would be basically that plus ToF. They could be tiny, cheap, and maybe not accurate enough for a HMD nausea free, but definitely more accurate fhan IR point and IR camera solutions like Wii.
I really don't get the big appeal about the Wii's pointer. I mean the Wii U GamePad basically solved the problem with a traditional layout by using a gyro-magnetometer combo. Wii's pointer was jittery and a touch laggy by its very nature. Plus the problems of fixed frame of reference as I pointed out before.
I want better pointer controls, no doubt, but I don't want to sacrifice the flexibility of the Joy-Con to get it!
Lancelot
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I doubt they'd want to do that when even Miyamoto himself has stated new hardware is for new games. Drake still has to sell, and the original will die sooner or later.
Dolce
I am the Mover of Planets
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The weird things Nintendo has said regarding future consoles always brings a lot of questions. It's very much possible Nintendo launches the next system with no BC. And if that happens, all bets are off.
Coincidentally, that was one of the weird things. That implies BC is not as important. I have no idea what will happen if Nintendo goes full, no connection to the old system, successor.
If Drake has BC and isn't a clean break from the Switch, I think Nintendo will do as I mentioned earlier. If it is a clean break, well, buckle up.
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
That means they’ll need to have a NSW2 Online subscription service in addition to NSO. There’s a reason they called it “Nintendo Switch Online” and not “Nintendo Online”. It’s all going to carry over.
Lancelot
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Note, I think many here are misunderstanding the cross-gen in systems like PS4/One and how it even managed to happen... the backports from Drake will be much more difficult to make for the Switch than any of those consoles, simply because the TX1 is a very unbalanced chip that can't even hold its targets for games anymore, and is also lacking a ton of hardware features that will be vital for Nintendo's pipelines going forward. Once the DLSS and Nanite implementations (thanks to the 1 GB/s they now have) alone start to be put into 1st parties, Switch will be utterly and completely out of the question, just like Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart was unthinkable for PS4 at its current form because of streaming and design reasons.
LiC
Member
This is way off base. All Miyamoto said is what Nintendo always says, which is that they try to come up with hardware ideas that enable new experiences. That means new hardware should be able to do things that the previous generation couldn't do, like the 3DS having a 3D display, not that new hardware is supposed to be categorically different from the previous one so it can't be compatible. The 3DS still played DS games.
And it's not like every single new piece of hardware Nintendo ever released follows even that rule. It's completely in line with Nintendo's past philosophy to release an upgraded system that works pretty much the same as the Switch does now. And also in line with the fact that Furukawa keeps saying the Switch (platform) is going to have a longer than normal life span.
There's zero reason to expect no BC. Saying "it's possible" is no different from saying "it's possible" their next console might be digital-only. Anything is possible. The sun might not come up tomorrow. That's not an interesting way to have a discussion.
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