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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Serif said:
The expectations around the next Nintendo console were muddled because of anticipation for a 'Switch Pro' or the new 3DS equivalent of the Switch, so expectations were tempered around a modest upgrade that was mostly intended to run Switch games at enhanced resolutions. This was all the way back in 2020-2021 when 'Pro' rumors were popping up and got conflated with the OLED model
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Looking back at all those overclocking videos. The OLED docking improving. I think the OLED is the pro model. They just chosen battery over power.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
I disagree with this, watching Digital Foundry they point out lots of AAA games that are CPU-limited right now, BG3 and Starfield being 2 major ones that come to mind, where they’ve pointed out a PS5 Pro-like strategy of increased GPU without more powerful CPU is not going to increase frame rate, and they’ve already ruled out GTA VI running at 60fps on even PS5 Pro due to this reason. I keep seeing people claim games this gen aren’t CPU-limited and it’s just not true.
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I would simply state; BG3 and Starfield are not "most games" - even then that second one achieves 60FPS.

Some games are absolutely pushing the boat out with CPU requirements, but when I say 'most', I mean 'most'. Lots of games this generation have headroom in the CPU department they didn't last gen. Though of course this may, and is probably likely to, change as the generation develops and Gen 8 gets fully left behind.
 
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Raccoon said:
it's not gonna fit in mine!

joining the PS5 in being a new console (video game) you have to buy a new console (furniture) for
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The PS5 comparison is a bit much, no? In volume, the Switch successor will still be one of the smallest home consoles this century.
 
Concernt said:
I would simply state; BG3 and Starfield are not "most games" - even then that second one achieves 60FPS.

Some games are absolutely pushing the boat out with CPU requirements, but when I say 'most', I mean 'most'. Lots of games this generation have headroom in the CPU department they didn't last gen.
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Starfield is such a clusterduck of a game that I don't think even Bethesda can fix it at this point, and the game isn't very good either so we're not missing out on much. BG3 will be fine at 30 fps.

I'd rather replay Elden Ring or the Dark Souls series on the Switch 2 instead.
 
One thing that really made me wish for a little more power on the Switch was the painfully low resolution of some of the exclusives, especially the Xenoblade series.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
I disagree with this, watching Digital Foundry they point out lots of AAA games that are CPU-limited right now, BG3 and Starfield being 2 major ones that come to mind, where they’ve pointed out a PS5 Pro-like strategy of increased GPU without more powerful CPU is not going to increase frame rate, and they’ve already ruled out GTA VI running at 60fps on even PS5 Pro due to this reason. I keep seeing people claim games this gen aren’t CPU-limited and it’s just not true.
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The only speculate like always, and almost every game is really not CPU but GPU bound, even Starfield get now performance mode on XSX, we don’t know if GTA VI will have two modes or not but Rockstar is very good with optimization on Consoles
 
Serif said:
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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Something about the more rounded controllers looks kinda ugly, but I'm sure they're more ergonomic than the old controllers.
I wonder if the buttons and whatnot will be larger to make better use of the additional surface area, probably too much to hope for proper sticks though haha.
 
Gerald said:
The only speculate like always, and almost every game is really not CPU but GPU bound, even Starfield get now performance mode on XSX, we don’t know if GTA VI will have two modes or not but Rockstar is very good with optimization on Consoles
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I don't think GTA VI will have that much of a hard time running on the Switch 2. Lower resolution at 30fps upscaled with DLSS and plenty of memory to work with.
 
Concernt said:
The PS5 comparison is a bit much, no? In volume, the Switch successor will still be one of the smallest home consoles this century.
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Nothing deserves to be compared to the PS5. That thing is humongous, I don't know why that's even a thing.

But I think they may be referring to a small enclosed space where there's a ceiling above the console. Since the Switch stands vertically, it would be hard to fit in a space like this, especially if this new model is bigger. I already have to tilt my dock to get the Switch in and out.
 
Z0m3le said:
There is no real jump after Switch 2, I mean it's all pointless. Games look great now and days, it takes so much more power to even really take it to the next level unless you are looking for faster frames... That is not for everyone. Switch 2 is already going to be far closer to PS5 than Switch was to PS4.
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No real jump I agree, but gimmicks can still be done. Things I can think of (or really want):

- 3D games (On a 1080p or 1440p display) where the 3D frame is generated by AI (on the 3DS, 3D mode seems to impact performance, with AI, this is minimized or even removed). The only thing people gave up on the 3D early is because the initial implementation on the 3DS is shit without the headtracking feature. Now AI can do eye tracking for more accurate results.

- 2 player games through parallax. It's a gimmick of course but will impact performance due to rendering 2 frames at once. Imagine playing Mario Kart or Splatoon with this feature.
 
rinku said:
Something about the more rounded controllers looks kinda ugly, but I'm sure they're more ergonomic than the old controllers.
I wonder if the buttons and whatnot will be larger to make better use of the additional surface area, probably too much to hope for proper sticks though haha.
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I think "improved sticks" are a realistic ask.

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Gerald said:
Yeah, also more memory than in Series S
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GTA V launched on the PS3/360 and PS4/XBOne a year later, and their engine is quite robust and scalable. And ofcourse Series S like you said.

At this point the Series S is going to benefit Nintendo more than it ever will for Microsoft

Edit: historical accuracy
 
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HyruleanKnight said:
GTA V simul-launched on the PS3/360 and PS4/XBOne, and their engine is quite robust and scalable. And ofcourse Series S like you said.

At this point the Series S is going to benefit Nintendo more than it ever will for Microsoft
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GTA V's PS4 and Xbox One launch came a year after the PS3 and 360 launch, but yeah, the scalability comment remains true.
 
bixente said:
I'd say we've gotten plenty of juicy leaks.
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With meme stocks rising from the grave again, Geopolitical events, and other IRL stuff I got going on, Now would be a great time for me for things to calm down then roar back early June. I love following along in real time as some of you smart cookies find this stuff. Reading about it 2 days later isnt the same lol
 
Hermii said:
Yea. This is the main reason why I never bought into the 16gb hype. It wouldn't actually have gotten Nintendo any more ports than 12gb will. It would just have increased their quality somewhat.
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More important is faster 12GB with much more bandwidth than slower 16GB
 
indospot said:
Nothing deserves to be compared to the PS5. That thing is humongous, I don't know why that's even a thing.

But I think they may be referring to a small enclosed space where there's a ceiling above the console. Since the Switch stands vertically, it would be hard to fit in a space like this, especially if this new model is bigger. I already have to tilt my dock to get the Switch in and out.
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The thing with the Switch and its successor is, to be fair, you basically need double the verticle clearance compared to its size to undock and dock it. That clearance requirement is absolutely set to increase no matter what, the screen is almost certainly larger, after all. Choco's concern is with absolute length from end to end.

In your case or his, provided that the new dock design makes it possible, consider the Sakurai approach and lay it down on its back? Maybe?

chocolate_supra said:
That's barely the width of my two hands. So I might not be able to squeeze my hands in there around it, I'd have to turn it diagonally every time I wanted to take it out.
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? You always pull it out using the Joy-Con on the side? Grab the top of the screen and yank it out.

Like so:

16.9_ListHeader_Switch_NintendoSwitchOLEDModel_BeautyShot_enNOE.jpg


Though that does require even more vertical clearance, so maybe then that becomes a problem!
 
HyruleanKnight said:
GTA V simul-launched on the PS3/360 and PS4/XBOne, and their engine is quite robust and scalable. And ofcourse Series S like you said.

At this point the Series S is going to benefit Nintendo more than it ever will for Microsoft
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Yes also Switch 2 is full Gen9 Console, but I’m personally expect that port for Switch 2 will be after PS and Xbox Premiere on what Rockstar is 100% fully focus and put full effort
 
Concernt said:
The thing with the Switch and its successor is, to be fair, you basically need double the verticle clearance compared to its size to undock and dock it. That clearance requirement is absolutely set to increase no matter what, the screen is almost certainly larger, after all. Choco's concern is with absolute length from end to end.

In your case or his, provided that the new dock design makes it possible, consider the Sakurai approach and lay it down on its back? Maybe?



? You always pull it out using the Joy-Con on the side? Grab the top of the screen and yank it out.

Like so:

16.9_ListHeader_Switch_NintendoSwitchOLEDModel_BeautyShot_enNOE.jpg


Though that does require even more vertical clearance, so maybe then that becomes a problem!
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To your first point, I totally get it and agree. I actually would love if the new dock maybe made it easier to lay it flat horizontally. I've considered doing what Sakurai does but I worry that's putting some pressure on the USB-C port since the console will be leaning a bit. It would be cool if maybe there was an optional locking mechanism for this kind of setup.


Also yeah, grabbing the console from the top makes the most sense. Its not like it's locked in there and you have to be super careful pulling it out, it just comes right off.
 
Mamaun said:
Oh, now i can see it. I could not figure it out but with "If 1536 cores is legit, then 4N it is." i see the light. Here my guess:
  • Less than1536 cores
  • Samsung's 8nm
  • Lower than lowest cpu clocks expectations.
  • 8GB Ram
  • LCD (not bad, I prefer it over oled)

Don't misunderstand me. I love my switch. But there were rumours of more power Tegra X1 before switch launch and nintendo managed lower the lowest expectations so....
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TX1+ on Samsung 8NM, 6GB of RAM, 128GB eMMC, TN LCD screen at 50hz refresh rate.

If you want to Doom we can doom.
 
Gerald said:
Yes also Switch 2 is full Gen9 Console, but I’m personally expect that port for Switch 2 will be after PS and Xbox Premiere on what Rockstar is 100% fully focus and put full effort
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Perhaps, but it probably won't take as long as some of the cross-platform Switch games took. A lot of the optimization work is all about making the game run within the memory constraints, which the Switch definitely suffered from at 3GB vs 5.5GB on the PS5.

Even at 10-11GB, and with potential removal of ultra-high res textures that the Switch 2 has no business working with, it's only 1.5-2.5GB behind the PS5. Much of the x86 to ARM v8 porting tools are already available, and dedicated porting studios have many years of experience with porting to the Switch at this point. Given that Rockstar works closely with one such porting studio, I don't see why it can't simulrelease on the Switch 2. Or better yet, I'm sure Nintendo has already provided Rockstar with a devkit to tinker around with, and since the game is still a long ways out I don't see why they couldn't do it themselves.

One could argue the Switch was a massive stepping stone for Switch 2 to stand on. You can see why 12GB is such a big deal.
 
indospot said:
To your first point, I totally get it and agree. I actually would love if the new dock maybe made it easier to lay it flat horizontally. I've considered doing what Sakurai does but I worry that's putting some pressure on the USB-C port since the console will be leaning a bit. It would be cool if maybe there was an optional locking mechanism for this kind of setup.


Also yeah, grabbing the console from the top makes the most sense. Its not like it's locked in there and you have to be super careful pulling it out, it just comes right off.
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The USB C Port on the current dock has a lot of wiggle room, spring, etc.

I used mine horizontal for a bit, no problems. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
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Z0m3le said:
There is no real jump after Switch 2, I mean it's all pointless. Games look great now and days, it takes so much more power to even really take it to the next level unless you are looking for faster frames... That is not for everyone. Switch 2 is already going to be far closer to PS5 than Switch was to PS4.
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To put it into perspective, I’ve played some of the PS5’s best games on my PS4 Pro and I feel like I missed absolutely nothing by not playing them on the more powerful system. The graphics were at a level on the PS4 Pro where I felt they still looked great.

It’s not like playing Doom or Witcher 3 on Switch, rather, it’s like playing the exact same games with slightly lower settings where a lot of people will barely tell the difference at first glance.
 
Has there been any technical analysis of Starfield's graphics as well as lighting levels, and I'm wondering if graphics and lighting levels like these would be more common on ns2?
 
HyruleanKnight said:
Perhaps, but it probably won't take as long as some of the cross-platform Switch games took. A lot of the optimization work is all about making the game run within the memory constraints, which the Switch definitely suffered from at 3GB vs 5.5GB on the PS5.

Even at 10-11GB, and with potential removal of ultra-high res textures that the Switch 2 has no business working with, it's only 1.5-2.5GB behind the PS5. Much of the x86 to ARM v8 porting tools are already available, and dedicated porting studios have many years of experience with porting to the Switch at this point. Given that Rockstar works closely with one such porting studio, I don't see why it can't simulrelease on the Switch 2. Or better yet, I'm sure Nintendo has already provided Rockstar with a devkit to tinker around with, and since the game is still a long ways out I don't see why they couldn't do it themselves.

One could argue the Switch was a massive stepping stone for Switch 2 to stand on. You can see why 12GB is such a big deal.
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I’m think Rockstar have aleardy devkits for sure, big 3P studios and publishers start getting devkits since Summer 2023,and yeah Switch 2 will have normal versions/ports of Games, not anymore miracle ports will be needed, funfact is that based on reports of reliable folks like Stephan Totilo, Rockstar actually try to port RDR2 for Switch 1, they working on it, but I’m think they stop beacuse too much sacrifice will be needed what they don’t want
 
supmo said:
I think 4LPP+ ≈ TSMC N6
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I updated the GB6 A78 node-freq scaling graph I made a while back.
Of course, you should take the results with a grain of salt as it can primarily represent peak-performance of the highest clocked core with a short burst(s) of load, but it's an estimate and understanding of how different node processes and OEMs can scale across a variation of phones. Moreover, I have no insight on how much W the respective core uses when it's performing the synthetic benchmark, so the data is purely frequency, node process and the respective single-core (thread) score.

24lqgMM.png

​
Ah, can someone provide me some samples of the Tegra Orin where you think the result is accurate in GB6? I tried to include some of them, but I'm not sure if I should take the highest or lowest value or just provide a spread of estimates 🤔 .
 
Mamaun said:
Yes, switch is a wonderful piece of hardware. But If only Nintendo didn't held it back by lowering clocks....
I know it's difficult because of battery life.
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Switch was on a very poor node, the TSMC 20nm, which had leaking issues. We documented it on the old old site, The Nvidia Shield TV would try to run the CPU at 1.9GHz and the GPU at 998MHz, but would throttle whenever both were in medium usage range, the CPU clock would drop to 1.4GHz and the GPU would drop to 921MHz, if both usage was at 100% the clocks would drop even more. Nintendo should have went with a 16nm node, but the chip was designed and manufactured at 20nm, we see with Mariko, just 2 years into the Switch's life, how drastic the power usage dropped.

Switch 2 isn't in this situation though, it's a custom chip, made specifically for Switch 2, and thus, it's size and power consumption will align with the design of the chip, there is no reason to make the chip as big as it is, if you clock it TOO low, because a smaller chip with higher clocks would perform the same and be cheaper. Switch 2's specs are known, and the clocks are obviously in a range where a cheaper chip couldn't do the same job. That is what we know, and with that knowledge, I can confidently say that even on minimum specs for the size of this chip to make sense, it will be far closer to the PS5 than the Switch was to the PS4.
 
I think the size is becoming something I'm raising an eyebrow at. It'll definitely still fit into my life, it's practically in the same class of device as Nintendo Switch, but it'll be just that little but bigger. If it makes for more comfort and good battery life though, I won't be complaining when I pick it up. Ultimately it's designed with fitting kids' hands in mind as much as any adult, so it should be FINE. I don't see how they can go any larger than this for the future though, unless they go big and thin with controllers not going the whole height of the device.

Either this is as big as Ninrendo's ever going, or things will get weird after this point.
 
Gerald said:
I’m think Rockstar have aleardy devkits for sure, big 3P studios and publishers start getting devkits since Summer 2023,and yeah Switch 2 will have normal versions/ports of Games, not anymore miracle ports will be needed, funfact is that based on reports of reliable folks like Stephan Totilo, Rockstar actually try to port RDR2 for Switch 1, they working on it, but I’m think they stop beacuse too much sacrifice will be needed what they don’t want
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RDR2 on the Switch is just ever so slightly overambitious. I've played the game on a decently high end rig and I can vouch that it is no joke. In terms of miracle ports, Doom 2016/Eternal and Witcher are nowhere near RDR2 in terms of fidelity.

On a side note, at max settings the game is an absolute eye candy. Switch 2 will have a swell time running it; it'd be incredible to see a tablet running the game.
 
Concernt said:
I think the size is becoming something I'm raising an eyebrow at. It'll definitely still fit into my life, it's practically in the same class of device as Nintendo Switch, but it'll be just that little but bigger. If it makes for more comfort and good battery life though, I won't be complaining when I pick it up. Ultimately it's designed with fitting kids' hands in mind as much as any adult, so it should be FINE. I don't see how they can go any larger than this for the future though, unless they go big and thin with controllers not going the whole height of the device.

Either this is as big as Ninrendo's ever going, or things will get weird after this point.
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I do have some concerns with size as well. I recently wrote (for work) about why I think some handhelds are already too big, and I'm worried Nintendo will go the same route. This expected increase in size isn't too bad yet, but I can see why it's not for everyone. I hope a Switch 2 Lite eventually comes out and maybe doesn't make as many sacrifices as the original Lite, so it's a more appealing option for people like Raccoon.
 
Raccoon said:
would you consider that class to include the steam deck?
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I think Steam Deck is in the class of small laptops, 12" iPads, etc., while Nintendo Switch and the successor are more in iPad Mini territory. The line is of course blurred, but the size of the controls and added thickness of the Steam Deck are not to be ignored.
 
The 120 GB/s bandwidth is the most important data to keep in mind. If they have chosen that the system will have this bandwidth, it means that they intend to exploit it. It's pure logic. Until a few days ago we were thinking about the 102.4 GB/s bandwidth, but if now the bandwidth available for CPUs and GPUs is greater than expected, then it means that CPUs and GPUs will be able to perform better. The discussion regarding energy consumption is necessarily linked to that of bandwidth. With more bandwidth, you have access to a higher level of performance, so they have certainly taken into account all aspects related to power consumption, to achieve that desired level of performance, which the 120 GB/s bandwidth allows you. It's pure logic. We'll see if behind these decisions there is the use of a particularly efficient production process or an extra energy budget. But it is illogical to think that they built the SoC with a certain performance target and then not exploit it. As for me, I am very calm and confident, because all the information we have suggests that the T239 SoC has been built in a more than intelligent way. 🙂
 
I wholly disagree with the idea of an early reveal to six months release schedule.

We live in a different world from 2016 and Nintendo is far better off than they once were. Also, it goes against Furakawa's own statement regarding revealing new hardware*.

*someone better at sleuthing can find the source
 
CalmMind said:
I wholly disagree with the idea of an early reveal to six months release schedule.

We live in a different world from 2016 and Nintendo is far better off than they once were. Also, it goes against Furakawa's own statement regarding revealing new hardware*.

*someone better at sleuthing can find the source
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Same. Early reveal = early launch, late reveal = late launch
 
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