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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Machrider said:
When people say they doubt 4N is possible for Nintendo because it's a very in demand node, doesn't Apple moving off 4N (TSMC 5nm) for their iPhone line (and soon probably M3 chips too) leave TSMC with a lot of open capacity for 4N?

Because Apple ships like 220 million iPhones a year (mostly the newest model), with that much production burden lifted off 4N for TSMC, wouldn't TSMC be happy to see Nintendo (or well Nvidia) come in and fill some of that void?

Like I wonder if the entire timing of the Switch 2 going back several years when these decisions were made were based a lot around the projection that Apple would be moving to 3nm by 2024/2025.

And really even if Switch 2 is very popular out of the gate, it's production needs are still likely to only necessitate maybe 14-15 million units in the first 12 months. For a game console, that's a lot, but compared to like an iPhone, it's not a lot.
Click to expand...
nvidia is already using TSMC 4N for some of their products. I think it's a question of timing - was TSMC 4N available as an option for Drake, and did they go with that node process if it was?

A common mention I see outside Famiboards is "LOL Nintendo is cheap" as the reason they'll stick with 8nm, which is nonsensical because TSMC 4N, while being more expensive on a per wafer, is more denser which will give Nintendo/nvidia savings (more "bang for the buck").
 
Machrider said:
When people say they doubt 4N is possible for Nintendo because it's a very in demand node, doesn't Apple moving off 4N (TSMC 5nm) for their iPhone line (and soon probably M3 chips too) leave TSMC with a lot of open capacity for 4N?

Because Apple ships like 220 million iPhones a year (mostly the newest model), with that much production burden lifted off 4N for TSMC, wouldn't TSMC be happy to see Nintendo come on board?

Like I wonder if the entire timing of the Switch 2 going back several years when these decisions were made were based a lot around the projection that Apple would be moving to 3nm by 2024/2025.

And really even if Switch 2 is very popular out of the gate, it's production needs are still likely to only necessitate maybe 14-15 million units in the first 12 months. For a game console, that's a lot, but compared to like an iPhone, it's not a lot.
Click to expand...
The 4nm node that apple is using, is actually not the same as Nvidia is using. Nvidia is using a customized 5nm node they named 4nm for marketing purposes, but it's still tsmc 5nm for comparisons sake. Apples 4nm node is an actual different node from 5nm. Confusing.
 
We need to start a tradition of posting 1 (per page) interesting gaming fact that has happend in the year = page number, once we reach like 1900 pages
 
Two things about this Paul Gale quote.

1. It's also useful to think of what they didn't say, not just what they did. They didn't say: "it's a big step up, but also still worse for us than Series S, which was already bad". So good news that they didn't say that.
However, without knowing whether this dev works on AAA or small budget or in-between, means that what we still can't infer much from this. Someone should ask him, and hopefully he answers: "is this a big budget studio or something smaller?"

2. Paul Gale I'm pretty sure made the bogus claim about Star Fox X Metroid crossover for Wii U or something like that right? So I don't put any stock behind him to be honest 😅 then again maybe he has said big stuff in the past that was right? I have no clue 🤷‍♂️
 
Speaking on switch development
Things like:
Completely overhauling lighting workflows
Changing out volumetric skies for skyboxes
Reducing poly count/heavily managing LOD assets
Reducing shader complexity
Shrinking/compressing textures
Babysitting drawcalls on everything
Juggling CPU threads
Retargeting animation to a completely different rig than other platforms
Managing asset/level streaming

Are all pain points in development.

Imagine now being extremely familiar with the dev environment having finished a project on switch… and all of a sudden all of these pain points are gone or greatly reduced for your next one. This is the kind of dev excitement we’re talking about here.
 
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Skittzo said:
It can be night and day because that's a meaningless phrase without context. If it's better in any way someone may call it night and day.

Just a pretty unhelpful and uninteresting quote imo
Click to expand...
Assuming he has accurate information and is telling the truth (which are big ifs), then I'm interested in the additional confirmation that 3rd parties are onboard with Nintendo's new console. That's not really different from the current status quo, but the cagey statements from devs in 2017 about the Switch was my primary concern. If this report is true, then I'm glad there hasn't been a relapse of sorts.
 
Hermii said:
The 4nm node that apple is using, is actually not the same as Nvidia is using. Nvidia is using a customized 5nm node they named 4nm for marketing purposes, but it's still tsmc 5nm for comparisons sake. Apples 4nm node is an actual different node from 5nm. Confusing.
Click to expand...

Looks like the Apple A15 (iPhone 13 chip from 2 years ago) used "5nm N5P", the Apple A16 (iPhone 14 chip from last year) used "5nm N4P" and this year they have moved off 5nm entirely for 3nm.
 
Shinespark said:
Assuming he has accurate information and is telling the truth (which are big ifs), then I'm interested in the additional confirmation that 3rd parties are onboard with Nintendo's new console. That's not really different from the current status quo, but the cagey statements from devs in 2017 about the Switch was my primary concern. If this report is true, then I'm glad there hasn't been a relapse of sorts.
Click to expand...

If it can actually run that Matrix Awakens demo and is 3 tflop docked ... I could see 3rd party devs being thrilled, but that is an "if".
 
Blue Monty said:
What will happen first 3000 pages or Switch 2 release?
Click to expand...
Took us 2 years to reach this point (1700 pages). That was with heightened excitement somewhere in the middle with Switch Pro right? (I was not a member here back then but read some of it).

If I were to wager, Switch 2 release first. :) Even with new members, I have a hard time seeing 75% worth of 2 years of traffic in this thread (1300 pages) be added in under a year.
 
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Machrider said:
If it can actually run that Matrix Awakens demo and is 3 tflop docked ... I could see 3rd party devs being thrilled, but that is an "if".
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think he's also hinting that the reaction is to the power level of the new console. At the same time, any dev going from the 3DS or the Wii U ought to have been similarly impressed with the Switch.

His vagueness is what causes me to temper my enthusiasm.
 
0
Concernt said:
I don't believe that's the case- only Pro models use 3nm.
Click to expand...

True though the Pro models are the best selling iPhone models ... that's a lot of business leaving TSMC's 5nm process and by this time next year iPhone 16 should be entirely off 5nm.

Switch 2 potentially being a 2nd half 2024 product seems to align pretty well with the time TSMC would have a lot more 5nm capacity available, maybe that release window timing was well thought out in advance.

Even Nvidia will be moving off 4N for their newest GPUs (50 series) in 2025 its looks like.
 
ILikeFeet said:
I don't see how it can be night and day with the switch as they are both ARM/Nvidia, based on modern APIs, and are comparable (just lower powered) to contemporary systems
Click to expand...
Assuming the report holds any weight, I'd assume it'd mainly be a specs thing. The whole "the difference is night and day" was already used a ton with regards to the development differences between Wii U and Switch, often literally:

What's it like developing for the Switch? 9 indie studios weigh in

Seems like most smaller games have already found the Switch as is pretty nice to program for, but for bigger AAA titles, working for the Switch essentially boils down to "extreme downgrades" or "not being on Switch at all". So I imagine a pretty big difference in that regard would be going from "this [current gen title] would need a miracle port to get on Switch" to "porting this [current gen title] to Switch 2 isn't all too tricky".

The statement just seems to be the result of one big game of telephone though so I really wouldn't put much weight into it.
 
Strollin Stu said:
Assuming the report holds any weight, I'd assume it'd mainly be a specs thing. The whole "the difference is night and day" was already used a ton with regards to the development differences between Wii U and Switch, often literally:

What's it like developing for the Switch? 9 indie studios weigh in

Seems like most smaller games have already found the Switch as is pretty nice to program for, but for bigger AAA titles, working for the Switch essentially boils down to "extreme downgrades" or "not being on Switch at all". So I imagine a pretty big difference in that regard would be going from "this [current gen title] would need a miracle port to get on Switch" to "porting this [current gen title] to Switch 2 isn't all too tricky".
Click to expand...
Right. If the limitation is ram for things like assets, then this should work on things that work on the Series S. If it's CPU, then it may not be such a gap that they can make up for it in optimization. If it's GPU, then it's probably a matter of adjusting shaders with Switch 2. There's not likely to be any order of magnitude differences anymore.
 
Machrider said:
When people say they doubt 4N is possible for Nintendo because it's a very in demand node, doesn't Apple moving off 4N (TSMC 5nm) for their iPhone line (and soon probably M3 chips too) leave TSMC with a lot of open capacity for 4N?

Because Apple ships like 220 million iPhones a year (mostly the newest model), with that much production burden lifted off 4N for TSMC, wouldn't TSMC be happy to see Nintendo (or well Nvidia) come in and fill some of that void?

Like I wonder if the entire timing of the Switch 2 going back several years when these decisions were made were based a lot around the projection that Apple would be moving to 3nm by 2023/2024. This is not like breaking news, you could have projected this back in 2020/2021 when design decisions were being made. Apple was on 5nm then, but by 2024 say it would have been reasonable to assume even back then Apple would move to 3nm (which they have now).

And really even if Switch 2 is very popular out of the gate, it's production needs are still likely to only necessitate maybe 14-17 million units in the first 12 months. For a game console, that's a lot, but compared to like an iPhone, it's small potatoes.
Click to expand...

I think people overestimate the percentage of TSMC's 5nm capacity that Apple are using, or just underestimate the scale of TSMC's 5nm production. Apple are a large 5nm customer (possibly the largest), but so are AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm, and now even Intel, plus a variety of smaller companies. Apple moving off 5nm will free up some capacity, but other companies moving onto 5nm will also use some of it up. It's not the difference between Switch 2 using one of TSMC's 5nm processes in any case.

We can actually just look at TSMC's financials to give us a much better idea of capacity, anyway. Their 5nm revenues have dropped for the last two quarters, down about 26% from peak. That suggests they're operating at a max of 74% of capacity, unless they've significantly reduced wafer prices (which seems unlikely). All of Apple, AMD, Nvidia and Qualcomm have seen sales in most segments drop over the past 6 months or so, so it's not surprising they're buying fewer wafers.

Regardless, none of this really makes a difference to Nintendo. The chip was taped out last year, and the decision on what node to use was likely made around three years ago. At around the same time Nvidia was making decisions on what nodes to use for Hopper, Grace and several Ada chips, and in all cases they went with TSMC 4N, which is part of the reason I think 4N is likely for T239 too. These chips would also account for a far greater share of TSMC's 5nm capacity T239, so I don't see how T239, of all chips, would have been kept off 5nm for capacity concerns.

Hermii said:
The 4nm node that apple is using, is actually not the same as Nvidia is using. Nvidia is using a customized 5nm node they named 4nm for marketing purposes, but it's still tsmc 5nm for comparisons sake. Apples 4nm node is an actual different node from 5nm. Confusing.
Click to expand...

They're all variants of the same process, and as far as I'm aware use the same hardware and can be manufactured on the same production lines (subject to some tweaking I would assume). TSMC has never differentiated between them in their financial reporting, and as far as I can tell every time they've talked about expanding capacity on that class of nodes it's been under the banner of "5nm" rather than specific processes like N5, N5P or N4.
 
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Machrider said:
When people say they doubt 4N is possible for Nintendo because it's a very in demand node, doesn't Apple moving off 4N (TSMC 5nm) for their iPhone line (and soon probably M3 chips too) leave TSMC with a lot of open capacity for 4N?
Click to expand...
Nvidia and Nintendo made the node decision in 2021 for a machine they expected to deliver in 2023/2024.

Phones and GPUs for the most part have to chase bleeding edge nodes. Those customers still expect “generational” upgrades every couple of years, but the underlying tech (the ARM design, the raster pipeline) is very stable and is only making incremental upgrades.

The huge spike in node prices when 5nm capacity opened up was entirely predictable - it’s why the Series S exists! - as was the stabilizing of prices after the node matured and Apple went on the 3nm.

On other hand, the chatgpt driven AI boom wasn’t predictable, and it caused Nvidia to do this wild move where they sold unused 4N capacity only to buy it back almost immediately at a higher price.

Let’s assume this thing launches in holiday 2024 on 5nm. The same people saying it’s too advanced now will be the people saying that it’s outdated tech in 2025 with 3nm Blackwell almost out, and why didn’t Nintendo wait 6 months???

This is a chip that needs to last at least 4, if not 8 years. Anybody not pricing that into Nintendo’s decisions isn’t really paying attention.
 
ShadowFox08 said:
Supposedly it's about 5% every year? So, in battery tech alone, it wouldn't reach 50% in 6 years, but I can see it being closer to 50% when you take a bigger battery capacity into account, which I can see with Switch 2. I expect the battery life to be somewhere between OG and OLED Switch. OG Switch 3 hours is the worst-case scenario, but they could clock handheld mode higher and with a bigger power draw in handheld mode vs OG Switch, and then make up for it in a revision with a smaller node. Maybe N3E in 2026 or 2nm node in 2027? I'm thinking 30% more power efficiency in the same clocks from N4 to N3E. Not as dramatic as 20nm vs 16/12nm node transition from OG to Mariko Switch.
Advanced%20Technology%20Roadmap_575px.PNG

www.anandtech.com

TSMC Outlines 2nm Plans: N2P Brings Backside Power Delivery in 2026, N2X Added To Roadmap

www.anandtech.com www.anandtech.com

Would be interesting if Switch uses 4N or the regular N4 node. The former is the custom version for Nvidia that's used in the 4000 lovelace series.. But who cares? lol


We'll probably get used to pretty fast like xbox 360 graphics on switch, after the novelty wears off. lol. But to be fair, PS4 has the sweet spot for 1080p HD on consoles (or low settings on PC).
Click to expand...
The difference here is the jump from 360 to PS4 was far more noticeable than the jump from PS4 to PS5. At least in my eyes.

There are certainly games where the the jump is far more noticeable but the jump from the first Uncharted to The Last of Us 2 is actually insane. I don't think we'll see anything like that gap this gen.

On some level, diminishing returns are real. Whether it's via hardware or resources (time, money, manpower). Some early day PS4 games still hold up really well visually.
 
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Thraktor said:
I think people overestimate the percentage of TSMC's 5nm capacity that Apple are using, or just underestimate the scale of TSMC's 5nm production. Apple are a large 5nm customer (possibly the largest), but so are AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm, and now even Intel, plus a variety of smaller companies. Apple moving off 5nm will free up some capacity, but other companies moving onto 5nm will also use some of it up. It's not the difference between Switch 2 using one of TSMC's 5nm processes in any case.

We can actually just look at TSMC's financials to give us a much better idea of capacity, anyway. Their 5nm revenues have dropped for the last two quarters, down about 26% from peak. That suggests they're operating at a max of 74% of capacity, unless they've significantly reduced wafer prices (which seems unlikely). All of Apple, AMD, Nvidia and Qualcomm have seen sales in most segments drop over the past 6 months or so, so it's not surprising they're buying fewer wafers.

Regardless, none of this really makes a difference to Nintendo. The chip was taped out last year, and the decision on what node to use was likely made around three years ago. At around the same time Nvidia was making decisions on what nodes to use for Hopper, Grace and several Ada chips, and in all cases they went with TSMC 4N, which is part of the reason I think 4N is likely for T239 too. These chips would also account for a far greater share of TSMC's 5nm capacity T239, so I don't see how T239, of all chips, would have been kept off 5nm for capacity concerns.



They're all variants of the same process, and as far as I'm aware use the same hardware and can be manufactured on the same production lines (subject to some tweaking I would assume). TSMC has never differentiated between them in their financial reporting, and as far as I can tell every time they've talked about expanding capacity on that class of nodes it's been under the banner of "5nm" rather than specific processes like N5, N5P or N4.
Click to expand...

Good points.

Though I would say Apple is I think safe to say a priority customer for TSMC. They basically gave them their entire 3nm production for 2023, locking out all the Android or GPU customers which sort of tells you where Apple sits on the totem pole.

We know Apple ships in the range of 220 million iPhones/year, now maybe that is not big numbers relative to other manufacturers (though I suspect it is), but Nintendo's production needs are obviously much, much smaller than that. For a game console, even very successful ones 7-8 million units in the first 6 months is often plenty. I could be wrong but on volume I think iPhone alone outships all Nvidia desktop GPUs + Switch + AMD GPUs + PS5 + XSX combined (not even factoring in iPad, Macs, etc.).

Once they're off 5nm mostly (next year probably), the 5nm production that TSMC would likely see an even further significant drop.

Maybe the thinking for Nintendo/Nvidia is that by 2024 the 5nm node would be quite matured and who knows maybe they'd get a better price, if not immediately, probably into 2025 I would think.

It's probably by design by it would seem like a game console that wants to use TSMC's 5nm process for a release date somewhere in say H2 2024 ... it's timed pretty well to have a lot of capacity open. As you say they're down 26% from their peak and probably sinking lower in the coming quarters. Entirely possible I suppose that Nintendo/Nvidia if they chose this node chose it on that expectation.
 
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This thread goes way too fast, and it's only going to get even real-er since we're now in a window where there'll potentially be a leak every month

rather than a Switch 2 announcement vs 2000 pages showdown, where the answer is really obvious, a 3000 pages vs Switch 2 announcement showdown is better, where the answer is not nearly as easy.
 
Hello! I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here since it relates to a possible hardware reveal. Like last time, since this is going to be a bit of a long post, I'll provide a TLDR at the end.

--
On August 29th, I posted a big Amiibo post in the old Direct speculation thread, pointing to us getting Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash content in the September Direct due to dated Amiibo restock listings.
famiboards.com

Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST6| It’s Prime Time For Some More Wonderful Speculation! (Spoiler Crowd, Remain In This Thread Until The Direct Ends!)

But for real I think a new Star Fox will come in the launch window for Switch 2. I’m hoping they can get it out in the first year. I want that maximum hype for it with a release of a new system. I want it at the switch 2 reveal. Right there with you. I was curious and looked at the total...
famiboards.com famiboards.com

In this post, of course, we didn't get anything like that in the direct, beyond the obvious Mario stuff and the Sora Amiibo.
Today, I looked back at the dated Amiibo, and I got some stuff wrong that made me jump to incomplete guesses. I wanted to make a post correcting myself and presenting the research.
www.gameexplorers.gr

Αποτελέσματα αναζήτησης: amiibo

Αποτελέσματα αναζήτησης: amiibo
www.gameexplorers.gr www.gameexplorers.gr
This is the Amiibo source for the restock dates.

In this big post, I listed the following:
Amiibo restocks have historically 99% been related to upcoming Nintendo software announcements or releases. These restocks can not relate to Nintendo Live, and they weren't announced the day they went live, meaning they relate to future announcements and releases.
Here are the upcoming restocks and what they could relate to:
-August 28th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 1 [New Content Reveal?] (1 month before reveal?)
-November 10th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 2 [New Content Release?] (Same month as release?)
-August 28th: SMB Rosalina and Boo Restock [Mario Wonder Direct]
-Fall 2023: Wedding Mario, Peach, and Bowser Restock [Mario Wonder] (Could be same month?)
-Fall 2023: Wolf Link, Archer Link, and Links Awakening Link [TOTK DLC/Wind Waker and Twilight Princess] (Could be same month?)
-Fall 2023: Metroid Line Samus [Metroid Prime 4 Re-reveal] (Could be same month/1 month after?) (Can't be Prime 2 and/or 3 since they don't have Amiibo Functionality)
Click to expand...
Some things that were incorrect:

1. The SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks weren't on the 28th. They were for November 10th. Meaning we've yet to see what they connected to. This also means the only thing that was dated was the Smash restocks, which connected to us getting the Sora Amiibo.
2. The Metroid, Zelda, and Odyssey restock were always dated, specifically for November 10th. When I made this list, I had no clue when these restocks were, so I just listed "Fall 2023."
3. The first Smash wave did not relate to new content but rather related to a Sora Amiibo, which is the first time they've ever announced a brand new Amiibo that isn't alongside brand new content.

Since I had no idea that the "Fall 2023" restocks were happening on November 10th, I incorrectly assumed that they were going to be for the fall direct. This, clearly, did not happen. I also mistook the SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks being on the same day as the first Smash wave, but that was not the case.

Despite the speculation not panning out in the direct, this is actually good news. The ONLY Amiibo restock that was dated for the 28th did lead to something, being the first Smash wave. While it wasn't software, it still connected to a Smash thing that proves the Smash team is back together working on something since they need to go back and update the game.
What does this mean?

We should see something relating to Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash around November 10th.
--

How does this relate to new hardware?
There are a few reasons why this relates to new hardware being revealed around this time. For starters, they can't really have any other event in the year where they could possibly show stuff for all of those franchises.
We also have Nintendo's FY earnings report out on November 7th.
image.png

In 2016, we got the full NX reveal on October 20th. Their earnings release was a week after, on October 26th.
(Source)

We also know from the recent NatetheHate podcast that March 2024 was talked about, and we know from other reports that Nintendo wanted to get their system out "ASAP."
If that date is the release month, what could launch the system? A 3D Mario is extremely unlikely. The same goes for whatever the next Smash thing is. So what could it be? Well, we have an earlier rumor from Grubb that we should have seen Prime 2 Remastered this year, and we have a random Samus restock on November 10th. This heavily suggests to me that we'll get a Prime 4 reveal later this year, and when they do that, they'll shadowdrop Prime 2 and/or 3 on the eShop.
(Source)

Jeff Grubb also said we should see a hardware reveal by the end of the year. "Late 2023." (There are also multiple other reports suggesting an early 2024 launch; the only thing going against that idea is the Eurogamer report, to my knowledge, anyway.)
(Source)
We also have a 16-day average for Amiibo restocks and the news they connect to. Since the only restock that was actually dated for the 28th was Smash, the 16-day average worked out since we got the Sora Amiibo in the direct. 16 days before November 10th is October 26th, 16 days after November 10th is November 26th.

With the Sora Amiibo panning out, there are too many restocks happening specifically on the 10th for me to ignore. We could also see something on November 7th, the same day as the FY report, since that's the same week as the mass restocks and is not in the same week as any game release.
November 7th is a Tuesday, but they also revealed the OLED on a Tuesday.

2 other things to account for is that the new Amiibo restocks do not have any console branding on them, and they've still yet to announce the first Smash wave... despite them always announcing restocks when they don't relate to anything.

They're also moving up their Mario Kart 8 Bundle, and they have 2 brand new Animal Crossing Switch Lite bundles releasing on October 6th, almost 2 months earlier than usual.
famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

A lot was going on yesterday so maybe this went under the radar. I know Nash Weedle isn't proven to be the greatest source but this does back up some of the Paper Mario and Mario RPG speculation from a few days ago. Let's hope someone else can corroborate this. Translated: "According to...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
This means no sales should be cannibalized since Nintendo is "celebrating the holidays early", according to their own press release.

--
TLDR:
In my Amiibo research, I made assumptions about the stuff being revealed in the September direct due to the lack of knowledge on when most of the restocks were. I also had the error of thinking the SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks were on August 28th. They weren't. They're slated for November 10th.
Currently, nothing else makes sense to be that late into the year beyond a new hardware reveal, something like the NX where they show gameplay on the new system. The only restock that was dated for the 28th was the Smash one, and that DID end up panning out, even if it wasn't software-related.

Based on current patterns, we could see something within the timeframe of October 26th - November 26th. With Nintendo's Earnings Release happening on the 7th, the hardware reveal happening on October 30th - November 7th makes the most amount of sense.

Here is an updated list of definitive dates with Amiibo restocks and what they could relate to.
-August 28th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 1 [Sora Amiibo Reveal]
-November 10th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 2 [New Content tease with new hardware? Sora Amiibo Release Date?]
-November 10th, 2023: SMB Rosalina and Boo Restock [Something Mario? SMRPG?]
-November 10th, 2023: Wedding Mario, Peach, and Bowser Restock [3D Mario tease with new hardware? Something with Odyssey? SMRPG?]
-November 10th, 2023: The Champions, Wolf Link, Archer Link, and Links Awakening Link [Something else Zelda? BOTW Demo reveal with new hardware? Zelda/Ganon Amiibo?)
-November 10th, 2023: Metroid Line Samus [Metroid Prime 4 Re-reveal alongside a hardware reveal] (There's not much else this could even be for)

My hope is that people do not dismiss the entire theory due to it not panning out in the Nintendo Direct. That assumption was due to me not knowing when the dates of the Amiibo restocks were. Now that I know, it's clear to me that we should see something around the given timeframe. The only thing that makes sense, again, is a new hardware reveal.
--

Thank you for reading; if you did, something weird is clearly going on, and I hope with this updated information, people can take the theory seriously since the reason why it didn't pan out when I thought at first was due to me making assumptions on dates. I would also like to apologize for getting possible hopes up, specifically about Smash and Metroid in the last direct. Speculation fails sometimes due to incomplete information, and that is exactly what happened with the direct. Now that I have more accurate information, I hope this will be a more accurate conclusion.
 
Last edited:
Paraspikey said:
Hello! I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here since it relates to a possible hardware reveal. Like last time, since this is going to be a bit of a long post, I'll provide a TLDR at the end.

--
On August 29th, I posted a big Amiibo post in the old Direct speculation thread, pointing to us getting Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash content in the September Direct due to dated Amiibo restock listings.
famiboards.com

Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST6| It’s Prime Time For Some More Wonderful Speculation! (Spoiler Crowd, Remain In This Thread Until The Direct Ends!)

But for real I think a new Star Fox will come in the launch window for Switch 2. I’m hoping they can get it out in the first year. I want that maximum hype for it with a release of a new system. I want it at the switch 2 reveal. Right there with you. I was curious and looked at the total...
famiboards.com famiboards.com

In this post, of course, we didn't get anything like that in the direct, beyond the obvious Mario stuff and the Sora Amiibo.
Today, I looked back at the dated Amiibo, and I got some stuff wrong that made me jump to incomplete guesses. I wanted to make a post correcting myself and presenting the research.
www.gameexplorers.gr

Αποτελέσματα αναζήτησης: amiibo

Αποτελέσματα αναζήτησης: amiibo
www.gameexplorers.gr www.gameexplorers.gr
This is the Amiibo source for the restock dates.

In this big post, I listed the following:

Some things that were incorrect:

1. The SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks weren't on the 28th. They were for November 10th. Meaning we've yet to see what they connected to. This also means the only thing that was dated was the Smash restocks, which connected to us getting the Sora Amiibo.
2. The Metroid, Zelda, and Odyssey restock were always dated, specifically for November 10th. When I made this list, I had no clue when these restocks were, so I just listed "Fall 2023."
3. The first Smash wave did not relate to new content but rather related to a Sora Amiibo, which is the first time they've ever announced a brand new Amiibo that isn't alongside brand new content.

Since I had no idea that the "Fall 2023" restocks were happening on November 10th, I incorrectly assumed that they were going to be for the fall direct. This, clearly, did not happen. I also mistook the SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks being on the same day as the first Smash wave, but that was not the case.

Despite the speculation not panning out in the direct, this is actually good news. The ONLY Amiibo restock that was dated for the 28th did lead to something, being the first Smash wave. While it wasn't software, it still connected to a Smash thing that proves the Smash team is back together working on something since they need to go back and update the game.
What does this mean?

We should see something relating to Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash around November 10th.
--

How does this relate to new hardware?
There are a few reasons why this relates to new hardware being revealed around this time. For starters, they can't really have any other event in the year where they could possibly show stuff for all of those franchises.
We also have Nintendo's FY earnings report out on November 7th.
image.png

In 2016, we got the full NX reveal on October 20th. Their earnings release was a week after, on October 26th.
(Source)

We also know from the recent NatetheHate podcast that March 2024 was talked about, and we know from other reports that Nintendo wanted to get their system out "ASAP."
If that date is the release month, what could launch the system? A 3D Mario is extremely unlikely. The same goes for whatever the next Smash thing is. So what could it be? Well, we have an earlier rumor from Grubb that we should have seen Prime 2 Remastered this year, and we have a random Samus restock on November 10th. This heavily suggests to me that we'll get a Prime 4 reveal later this year, and when they do that, they'll shadowdrop Prime 2 and/or 3 on the eShop.
(Source)

Jeff Grubb also said we should see a hardware reveal by the end of the year. "Late 2023." (There are also multiple other reports suggesting an early 2024 launch; the only thing going against that idea is the Eurogamer report, to my knowledge, anyway.)
(Source)
We also have a 16-day average for Amiibo restocks and the news they connect to. Since the only restock that was actually dated for the 28th was Smash, the 16-day average worked out since we got the Sora Amiibo in the direct. 16 days before November 10th is October 26th, 16 days after November 10th is November 26th.

With the Sora Amiibo panning out, there are too many restocks happening specifically on the 10th for me to ignore. We could also see something on November 7th, the same day as the FY report, since that's the same week as the mass restocks and is not in the same week as any game release.
November 7th is a Tuesday, but they also revealed the OLED on a Tuesday.

2 other things to account for is that the new Amiibo restocks do not have any console branding on them, and they've still yet to announce the first Smash wave... despite them always announcing restocks when they don't relate to anything.

--
TLDR:
In my Amiibo research, I made assumptions about the stuff being revealed in the September direct due to the lack of knowledge on when most of the restocks were. I also had the error of thinking the SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks were on August 28th. They weren't. They're slated for November 10th.
Currently, nothing else makes sense to be that late into the year beyond a new hardware reveal, something like the NX where they show gameplay on the new system. The only restock that was dated for the 28th was the Smash one, and that DID end up panning out, even if it wasn't software-related.

Based on current patterns, we could see something within the timeframe of October 26th - November 26th. With Nintendo's Earnings Release happening on the 7th, the hardware reveal happening on October 30th - November 7th makes the most amount of sense.

Here is an updated list of definitive dates with Amiibo restocks and what they could relate to.
-August 28th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 1 [Sora Amiibo Reveal]
-November 10th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 2 [New Content tease with new hardware? Sora Amiibo Release Date?]
-November 10th, 2023: SMB Rosalina and Boo Restock [Something Mario? SMRPG?]
-November 10th, 2023: Wedding Mario, Peach, and Bowser Restock [3D Mario tease with new hardware? Something with Odyssey? SMRPG?]
-November 10th, 2023: The Champions, Wolf Link, Archer Link, and Links Awakening Link [Something else Zelda? BOTW Demo reveal with new hardware? Zelda/Ganon Amiibo?)
-November 10th, 2023: Metroid Line Samus [Metroid Prime 4 Re-reveal alongside a hardware reveal] (There's not much else this could even be for)

My hope is that people do not dismiss the entire theory due to it not panning out in the Nintendo Direct. That assumption was due to me not knowing when the dates of the Amiibo restocks were. Now that I know, it's clear to me that we should see something around the given timeframe. The only thing that makes sense, again, is a new hardware reveal.
--

Thank you for reading; if you did, something weird is clearly going on, and I hope with this updated information, people can take the theory seriously since the reason why it didn't pan out when I thought at first was due to me making assumptions on dates. I would also like to apologize for getting possible hopes up, specifically about Smash and Metroid in the last direct. Speculation fails sometimes due to incomplete information, and that is exactly what happened with the direct. Now that I have more accurate information, this will be a more accurate conclusion.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the update, you made some of the best in depth investigations on this site if not the best
 
Paraspikey said:
Hello! I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here since it relates to a possible hardware reveal. Like last time, since this is going to be a bit of a long post, I'll provide a TLDR at the end.

--
On August 29th, I posted a big Amiibo post in the old Direct speculation thread, pointing to us getting Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash content in the September Direct due to dated Amiibo restock listings.
famiboards.com

Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST6| It’s Prime Time For Some More Wonderful Speculation! (Spoiler Crowd, Remain In This Thread Until The Direct Ends!)

But for real I think a new Star Fox will come in the launch window for Switch 2. I’m hoping they can get it out in the first year. I want that maximum hype for it with a release of a new system. I want it at the switch 2 reveal. Right there with you. I was curious and looked at the total...
famiboards.com famiboards.com

In this post, of course, we didn't get anything like that in the direct, beyond the obvious Mario stuff and the Sora Amiibo.
Today, I looked back at the dated Amiibo, and I got some stuff wrong that made me jump to incomplete guesses. I wanted to make a post correcting myself and presenting the research.
www.gameexplorers.gr

Αποτελέσματα αναζήτησης: amiibo

Αποτελέσματα αναζήτησης: amiibo
www.gameexplorers.gr www.gameexplorers.gr
This is the Amiibo source for the restock dates.

In this big post, I listed the following:

Some things that were incorrect:

1. The SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks weren't on the 28th. They were for November 10th. Meaning we've yet to see what they connected to. This also means the only thing that was dated was the Smash restocks, which connected to us getting the Sora Amiibo.
2. The Metroid, Zelda, and Odyssey restock were always dated, specifically for November 10th. When I made this list, I had no clue when these restocks were, so I just listed "Fall 2023."
3. The first Smash wave did not relate to new content but rather related to a Sora Amiibo, which is the first time they've ever announced a brand new Amiibo that isn't alongside brand new content.

Since I had no idea that the "Fall 2023" restocks were happening on November 10th, I incorrectly assumed that they were going to be for the fall direct. This, clearly, did not happen. I also mistook the SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks being on the same day as the first Smash wave, but that was not the case.

Despite the speculation not panning out in the direct, this is actually good news. The ONLY Amiibo restock that was dated for the 28th did lead to something, being the first Smash wave. While it wasn't software, it still connected to a Smash thing that proves the Smash team is back together working on something since they need to go back and update the game.
What does this mean?

We should see something relating to Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash around November 10th.
--

How does this relate to new hardware?
There are a few reasons why this relates to new hardware being revealed around this time. For starters, they can't really have any other event in the year where they could possibly show stuff for all of those franchises.
We also have Nintendo's FY earnings report out on November 7th.
image.png

In 2016, we got the full NX reveal on October 20th. Their earnings release was a week after, on October 26th.
(Source)

We also know from the recent NatetheHate podcast that March 2024 was talked about, and we know from other reports that Nintendo wanted to get their system out "ASAP."
If that date is the release month, what could launch the system? A 3D Mario is extremely unlikely. The same goes for whatever the next Smash thing is. So what could it be? Well, we have an earlier rumor from Grubb that we should have seen Prime 2 Remastered this year, and we have a random Samus restock on November 10th. This heavily suggests to me that we'll get a Prime 4 reveal later this year, and when they do that, they'll shadowdrop Prime 2 and/or 3 on the eShop.
(Source)

Jeff Grubb also said we should see a hardware reveal by the end of the year. "Late 2023." (There are also multiple other reports suggesting an early 2024 launch; the only thing going against that idea is the Eurogamer report, to my knowledge, anyway.)
(Source)
We also have a 16-day average for Amiibo restocks and the news they connect to. Since the only restock that was actually dated for the 28th was Smash, the 16-day average worked out since we got the Sora Amiibo in the direct. 16 days before November 10th is October 26th, 16 days after November 10th is November 26th.

With the Sora Amiibo panning out, there are too many restocks happening specifically on the 10th for me to ignore. We could also see something on November 7th, the same day as the FY report, since that's the same week as the mass restocks and is not in the same week as any game release.
November 7th is a Tuesday, but they also revealed the OLED on a Tuesday.

2 other things to account for is that the new Amiibo restocks do not have any console branding on them, and they've still yet to announce the first Smash wave... despite them always announcing restocks when they don't relate to anything.

--
TLDR:
In my Amiibo research, I made assumptions about the stuff being revealed in the September direct due to the lack of knowledge on when most of the restocks were. I also had the error of thinking the SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks were on August 28th. They weren't. They're slated for November 10th.
Currently, nothing else makes sense to be that late into the year beyond a new hardware reveal, something like the NX where they show gameplay on the new system. The only restock that was dated for the 28th was the Smash one, and that DID end up panning out, even if it wasn't software-related.

Based on current patterns, we could see something within the timeframe of October 26th - November 26th. With Nintendo's Earnings Release happening on the 7th, the hardware reveal happening on October 30th - November 7th makes the most amount of sense.

Here is an updated list of definitive dates with Amiibo restocks and what they could relate to.
-August 28th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 1 [Sora Amiibo Reveal]
-November 10th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 2 [New Content tease with new hardware? Sora Amiibo Release Date?]
-November 10th, 2023: SMB Rosalina and Boo Restock [Something Mario? SMRPG?]
-November 10th, 2023: Wedding Mario, Peach, and Bowser Restock [3D Mario tease with new hardware? Something with Odyssey? SMRPG?]
-November 10th, 2023: The Champions, Wolf Link, Archer Link, and Links Awakening Link [Something else Zelda? BOTW Demo reveal with new hardware? Zelda/Ganon Amiibo?)
-November 10th, 2023: Metroid Line Samus [Metroid Prime 4 Re-reveal alongside a hardware reveal] (There's not much else this could even be for)

My hope is that people do not dismiss the entire theory due to it not panning out in the Nintendo Direct. That assumption was due to me not knowing when the dates of the Amiibo restocks were. Now that I know, it's clear to me that we should see something around the given timeframe. The only thing that makes sense, again, is a new hardware reveal.
--

Thank you for reading; if you did, something weird is clearly going on, and I hope with this updated information, people can take the theory seriously since the reason why it didn't pan out when I thought at first was due to me making assumptions on dates. I would also like to apologize for getting possible hopes up, specifically about Smash and Metroid in the last direct. Speculation fails sometimes due to incomplete information, and that is exactly what happened with the direct. Now that I have more accurate information, I hope this will be a more accurate conclusion.
Click to expand...
Well aren't you just incredible! This is probably the most concrete thing we've gotten in weeks.
 
Paraspikey said:
Hello! I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here since it relates to a possible hardware reveal. Like last time, since this is going to be a bit of a long post, I'll provide a TLDR at the end.

--
On August 29th, I posted a big Amiibo post in the old Direct speculation thread, pointing to us getting Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash content in the September Direct due to dated Amiibo restock listings.
famiboards.com

Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST6| It’s Prime Time For Some More Wonderful Speculation! (Spoiler Crowd, Remain In This Thread Until The Direct Ends!)

But for real I think a new Star Fox will come in the launch window for Switch 2. I’m hoping they can get it out in the first year. I want that maximum hype for it with a release of a new system. I want it at the switch 2 reveal. Right there with you. I was curious and looked at the total...
famiboards.com famiboards.com

In this post, of course, we didn't get anything like that in the direct, beyond the obvious Mario stuff and the Sora Amiibo.
Today, I looked back at the dated Amiibo, and I got some stuff wrong that made me jump to incomplete guesses. I wanted to make a post correcting myself and presenting the research.
www.gameexplorers.gr

Αποτελέσματα αναζήτησης: amiibo

Αποτελέσματα αναζήτησης: amiibo
www.gameexplorers.gr www.gameexplorers.gr
This is the Amiibo source for the restock dates.

In this big post, I listed the following:

Some things that were incorrect:

1. The SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks weren't on the 28th. They were for November 10th. Meaning we've yet to see what they connected to. This also means the only thing that was dated was the Smash restocks, which connected to us getting the Sora Amiibo.
2. The Metroid, Zelda, and Odyssey restock were always dated, specifically for November 10th. When I made this list, I had no clue when these restocks were, so I just listed "Fall 2023."
3. The first Smash wave did not relate to new content but rather related to a Sora Amiibo, which is the first time they've ever announced a brand new Amiibo that isn't alongside brand new content.

Since I had no idea that the "Fall 2023" restocks were happening on November 10th, I incorrectly assumed that they were going to be for the fall direct. This, clearly, did not happen. I also mistook the SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks being on the same day as the first Smash wave, but that was not the case.

Despite the speculation not panning out in the direct, this is actually good news. The ONLY Amiibo restock that was dated for the 28th did lead to something, being the first Smash wave. While it wasn't software, it still connected to a Smash thing that proves the Smash team is back together working on something since they need to go back and update the game.
What does this mean?

We should see something relating to Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash around November 10th.
--

How does this relate to new hardware?
There are a few reasons why this relates to new hardware being revealed around this time. For starters, they can't really have any other event in the year where they could possibly show stuff for all of those franchises.
We also have Nintendo's FY earnings report out on November 7th.
image.png

In 2016, we got the full NX reveal on October 20th. Their earnings release was a week after, on October 26th.
(Source)

We also know from the recent NatetheHate podcast that March 2024 was talked about, and we know from other reports that Nintendo wanted to get their system out "ASAP."
If that date is the release month, what could launch the system? A 3D Mario is extremely unlikely. The same goes for whatever the next Smash thing is. So what could it be? Well, we have an earlier rumor from Grubb that we should have seen Prime 2 Remastered this year, and we have a random Samus restock on November 10th. This heavily suggests to me that we'll get a Prime 4 reveal later this year, and when they do that, they'll shadowdrop Prime 2 and/or 3 on the eShop.
(Source)

Jeff Grubb also said we should see a hardware reveal by the end of the year. "Late 2023." (There are also multiple other reports suggesting an early 2024 launch; the only thing going against that idea is the Eurogamer report, to my knowledge, anyway.)
(Source)
We also have a 16-day average for Amiibo restocks and the news they connect to. Since the only restock that was actually dated for the 28th was Smash, the 16-day average worked out since we got the Sora Amiibo in the direct. 16 days before November 10th is October 26th, 16 days after November 10th is November 26th.

With the Sora Amiibo panning out, there are too many restocks happening specifically on the 10th for me to ignore. We could also see something on November 7th, the same day as the FY report, since that's the same week as the mass restocks and is not in the same week as any game release.
November 7th is a Tuesday, but they also revealed the OLED on a Tuesday.

2 other things to account for is that the new Amiibo restocks do not have any console branding on them, and they've still yet to announce the first Smash wave... despite them always announcing restocks when they don't relate to anything.

--
TLDR:
In my Amiibo research, I made assumptions about the stuff being revealed in the September direct due to the lack of knowledge on when most of the restocks were. I also had the error of thinking the SMB Rosalina and Boo restocks were on August 28th. They weren't. They're slated for November 10th.
Currently, nothing else makes sense to be that late into the year beyond a new hardware reveal, something like the NX where they show gameplay on the new system. The only restock that was dated for the 28th was the Smash one, and that DID end up panning out, even if it wasn't software-related.

Based on current patterns, we could see something within the timeframe of October 26th - November 26th. With Nintendo's Earnings Release happening on the 7th, the hardware reveal happening on October 30th - November 7th makes the most amount of sense.

Here is an updated list of definitive dates with Amiibo restocks and what they could relate to.
-August 28th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 1 [Sora Amiibo Reveal]
-November 10th, 2023: Smash Series Restock Wave 2 [New Content tease with new hardware? Sora Amiibo Release Date?]
-November 10th, 2023: SMB Rosalina and Boo Restock [Something Mario? SMRPG?]
-November 10th, 2023: Wedding Mario, Peach, and Bowser Restock [3D Mario tease with new hardware? Something with Odyssey? SMRPG?]
-November 10th, 2023: The Champions, Wolf Link, Archer Link, and Links Awakening Link [Something else Zelda? BOTW Demo reveal with new hardware? Zelda/Ganon Amiibo?)
-November 10th, 2023: Metroid Line Samus [Metroid Prime 4 Re-reveal alongside a hardware reveal] (There's not much else this could even be for)

My hope is that people do not dismiss the entire theory due to it not panning out in the Nintendo Direct. That assumption was due to me not knowing when the dates of the Amiibo restocks were. Now that I know, it's clear to me that we should see something around the given timeframe. The only thing that makes sense, again, is a new hardware reveal.
--

Thank you for reading; if you did, something weird is clearly going on, and I hope with this updated information, people can take the theory seriously since the reason why it didn't pan out when I thought at first was due to me making assumptions on dates. I would also like to apologize for getting possible hopes up, specifically about Smash and Metroid in the last direct. Speculation fails sometimes due to incomplete information, and that is exactly what happened with the direct. Now that I have more accurate information, I hope this will be a more accurate conclusion.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for this, glad I'm not going to have to change my avatar to a purple dingdong
 
Blue Monty said:
Do not trust this clown for anything that isn’t Spanish related and even in these cases dont put a lot of weight into what he says.
Click to expand...
Yakuza collection for Switch sucessor? this seen too fishy to me, didnt the producer of the franchise stated theres will be no Yakuza on Nintendo consoles anymore?that Switch is not fit for the franchise.

www.ign.com

Yakuza Developer Explains Why It's Probably Not Coming to Nintendo Switch - IGN

RGG Studio boss Masayoshi Yokoyama says that he isn't interested in Nintendo Switch, explaining that he feels that the console's profile as a all-ages, mainstream-friendly console doesn't fit with the series' personality.
www.ign.com www.ign.com
 
Bnois said:
We need to start a tradition of posting 1 (per page) interesting gaming fact that has happend in the year = page number, once we reach like 1900 pages
Click to expand...
That's gonna be a little difficult until we reach the 70's. But hey, I just found out that Monopoly was invented in 1904, so there's something.
 
Paraspikey said:
Based on current patterns, we could see something within the timeframe of October 26th - November 26th. With Nintendo's Earnings Release happening on the 7th, the hardware reveal happening on October 30th - November 7th makes the most amount of sense.
Click to expand...
The issue of potentially cutting into holiday Switch sales remains unresolved. Just going out on a limb here, but maybe they could simultaneously announce the Switch 2 and a Switch price drop? If the Switch is to receive support until 2027, the most logical place would be as a budget system, akin to the PS2 from 2006 to 2013.
 
redmutineer75 said:
The issue of potentially cutting into holiday Switch sales remains unresolved. Just going out on a limb here, but maybe they could simultaneously announce the Switch 2 and a Switch price drop? If the Switch is to receive support until 2027, the most logical place would be as a budget system, akin to the PS2 from 2006 to 2013.
Click to expand...

They're obviously going to make up the lost Switch sales in Amiibo revenue. /s
 
D36 said:
Do any of us expect any sort of malfunctions with Redrakted NG when it comes out, much like the Switch had when it released? That's my one big fear as a potential early adopter.
Click to expand...
Eh, shit like that happens to all new technology, and it tends to be pretty rare, but ends up being exaggerated by social media. I still have my launch-era Switch and it's still kicking.
 
Thraktor said:
Regardless, none of this really makes a difference to Nintendo. The chip was taped out last year, and the decision on what node to use was likely made around three years ago. At around the same time Nvidia was making decisions on what nodes to use for Hopper, Grace and several Ada chips, and in all cases they went with TSMC 4N, which is part of the reason I think 4N is likely for T239 too. These chips would also account for a far greater share of TSMC's 5nm capacity T239, so I don't see how T239, of all chips, would have been kept off 5nm for capacity concerns.
Click to expand...
That is a remarkable point.

Indeed, T239 is a smaller chip that those you mentioned. If Nvidia went through the process of adapting Ampere to a new node, then there should be no particular hurdle for the Drake GPU to be produced in the same batches as the bigger ones.
 
MP! said:
Speaking on switch development
Things like:
Completely overhauling lighting workflows
Changing out volumetric skies for skyboxes
Reducing poly count/heavily managing LOD assets
Reducing shader complexity
Shrinking/compressing textures
Babysitting drawcalls on everything
Juggling CPU threads
Retargeting animation to a completely different rig than other platforms
Managing asset/level streaming

Are all pain points in development.

Imagine now being extremely familiar with the dev environment having finished a project on switch… and all of a sudden all of these pain points are gone or greatly reduced for your next one. This is the kind of dev excitement we’re talking about here.
Click to expand...
Will these things apply in reverse to updated versions of existing titles to be carried over through the generational patches, would you know? e.g., curious to see if the Zelda skydome, (upper atmosphere) clouds and stars in Tears would become volumetric and look less obviously skyboxy or painted on
 
Quoted by: MP!
1
Giancarlo said:
Yakuza collection for Switch sucessor? this seen too fishy to me, didnt the producer of the franchise stated theres will be no Yakuza on Nintendo consoles anymore?that Switch is not fit for the franchise.

www.ign.com

Yakuza Developer Explains Why It's Probably Not Coming to Nintendo Switch - IGN

RGG Studio boss Masayoshi Yokoyama says that he isn't interested in Nintendo Switch, explaining that he feels that the console's profile as a all-ages, mainstream-friendly console doesn't fit with the series' personality.
www.ign.com www.ign.com
Click to expand...
he doesn't even work for Sega anymore

EDIT: oh is this after Nagoshi left? regardless, they don't actually have a reason, IMO. if Yakuza languishes, it's their own fault
 
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