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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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karmitt said:
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I know there’s other fools like myself sitting on copies of Xenoblade 3. We’re almost there…
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I may be the last person to speak with regards to fidelity, but while Xenoblade 3's performance can suffer here and there, I genuinely believe that it's a competently polished experience. I understand waiting for a patch, but I say give it a go, it's one of the best looking games on the Switch.

Edit: Typo
 
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P4bl0 said:
What if we get the next Direct in April like in 2017 ?

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This is perfect. A month after Switch's release and they start with 3DS games. This should tell people a March '24 release is very probable.

I actually hated on these 3DS games announcements because I wanted them releasing on my new Switch instead 🤣
 
Discostew said:
It was already running with 2x 2GB RAM modules to take advantage of dual-channel (modules in the orange)
sp3tJVWmQFybssun
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If you give it a silhouette, it looks like a country.
 
D36 said:
I may be the last person to talk on speak with regards to fidelity, but while Xenoblade 3's performance can suffer here and there, I genuinely believe that it's a competently polished experience. I understand waiting for a patch, but I say give it a go, it's one of the best looking games on the Switch.
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Backing this up. There's a few spots where the game gets kinda rough to look at - especially if you zoom out with the camera - but it looks and runs well enough and the game is so good that you're missing out by waiting for a next-gen patch that may or may come.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Man, Switch has gotten a ton of PS4/One games that PS360 wouldn't have dreamed of pulling off.

50% what? If we're saying there's a theoretical multiplatform game that's 1080p60 on Series S without any fancy upscaling, given what we know it seems feasible enough to me that undocked Switch 2 using DLSS could manage a decent-looking 1080p30 at least, unless it's a game that plays particularly to Series S's strengths like CPU.
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Switch got those games with massive downgrades most of the time, the feature set only helped it for the compatibility while the games ran and looked dire, it's what it is. It's not something you rely on over more raw power, it doesn't work that way... Plus, what really held back PS360 was the ram amount which helped Switch quite a bit.

And no, given an hypothetical PS4/XOne-like Switch 2 wouldn't be able to run said Series S game at 540p acceptably if GPU bound, you'd have to go lower (either by settings or resolution) and as good DLSS is, that's no longer what you'd call an acceptable state. That's why this console can't simply be a 1/1 PS4 (GPU wise).
 
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Mercury_Sagit said:
Viewing the PDF on Firefox reveals a bunch of attachments along the 5-page transcript. I looked into 2 of them randomly, seem to be just internal emails discussing MS' strategy or some technical topics. Will check them all tomorrow, it's already nightime here fella.
E: actually there's even a full blown FTC report totalling at 25k lines stored in plain text format attached as well. Certainly not gonna look at that lol.
E2: total size of all attachments are 209MB btw, so whatever PDF software used to generate the document already performed compression quite a bit.
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Nice, thanks! I'm going to be honest, I didn't know until this moment that PDFs could have attachments, and that Firefox/browsers had a panel to view them. Whoops.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
50% what? If we're saying there's a theoretical multiplatform game that's 1080p60 on Series S without any fancy upscaling, given what we know it seems feasible enough to me that undocked Switch 2 using DLSS could manage a decent-looking 1080p30 at least, unless it's a game that plays particularly to Series S's strengths like CPU.
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Some UE5 games are already pushing the limit.
On Serie S, Immortal of Aveum runs at 60 fps but with FSR2 in ultra-performance mode with dynamic resolution going down to 480p.

In ultra performance mode with DLSS, you will have a better image quality but not much more performance. And if a game is already running at 30 fps on series S there won't be much room for improvement.
 
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syrozz said:
Some UE5 games are already pushing the limit.
On Serie S, Immortal of Aveum run at 60 fps but with FSR2 in ultra-performance mode with dynamic resolution going down to 480p.

In ultra performance mode with DLSS, you will have a better image quality but not much more performance. We won't get magical ports thanks to it alone.
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I'll wait until a studio who's more proficient than Ascendant make due with UE5 before I make judgements on the engine. the tools helped them make the game, but they might have been incapable of squeezing performance out of the engine due to their size
 
Lancelot said:
And no, given an hypothetical PS4/XOne-like Switch 2 wouldn't be able to run said Series S game at 540p acceptably if GPU bound, you'd have to go lower (either by settings or resolution) and as good DLSS is, that's no longer what you'd call an acceptable state. That's why this console can't simply be a 1/1 PS4 (GPU wise).
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that's hard to say really, if switch proved something, it's that devs & especially porting studios were able to do the impossible and port the game to the console with hard cutbacks (like Doom 2016/Eternal & Witcher 3) & even some ports that could be seen on par with ps4/XONE version (like Nier Automata & DQ11S), so saying ports of XSS or just current gen games in general can't be ported in an acceptable state on a PS4 level hardware is just a bit silly

i'm not with the verge article about the console being PS4 level of power but that doesn't sound like an unlikely thing nintendo would do especially since the cost-effective console plan worked with Nintendo, its first party studios, the third party companies & ofc the indies as long as the console is still well handled in terms of architecture
 
Blue Monty said:
Nah there is actually a sizeable part of the Nintendo fanbase that prefers WiiU over Switch, at least if you remove the WiiU ports. I see it more on Twitter than on fami tho
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Do they discuss software? Or is it a, "I miss Iwata and Reggie. Current day Nintendo has no soul, look at the Switch's UI!" kind of situation
 
ILikeFeet said:
I'll wait until a studio who's more proficient than Ascendant make due with UE5 before I make judgements on the engine. the tools helped them make the game, but they might have been incapable of squeezing performance out of the engine due to their size
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Ascendant Studios actually customized UE5 a lot to make it somehow performant, that's already more than the average Unreal dev. I'd say that's really the ceiling as long as you wish to target 60 FPS at all costs with Nanite, Lumen and Niagara all enabled.
 
TechnicalTip6578 said:
that's hard to say really, if switch proved something, it's that devs & especially porting studios were able to do the impossible and port the game to the console with hard cutbacks (like Doom 2016/Eternal & Witcher 3) & even some ports that could be seen on par with ps4/XONE version (like Nier Automata & DQ11S), so saying ports of XSS or just current gen games in general can't be ported in an acceptable state on a PS4 level hardware is just a bit silly

i'm not with the verge article about the console being PS4 level of power but that doesn't sound like an unlikely thing nintendo would do especially since the cost-effective console plan worked with Nintendo, its first party studios, the third party companies & ofc the indies as long as the console is still well handled in terms of architecture
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You do know Series S is several times faster than the fat PS4 only GPU-wise right? We're aware its games can be ported with hard cutbacks, but that's not the idea and it might be actually harder to do than it was with the Switch 1, in such an hypothetical scenario. It's a massive gap, and the later games you listed weren't even pushing the PS4 so that's not saying much...
 
Lancelot said:
You do know Series S is several times faster than the fat PS4 only GPU-wise right? We're aware its games can be ported with hard cutbacks, but that's not the idea and it might be actually harder to do than it was with the Switch 1, in such an hypothetical scenario. It's a massive gap, and the later games you listed weren't even pushing the PS4...
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i mean you could always use pc versions of current gen games and try to make them work on NG switch, those have low specs/recommended specs that might give an idea whether a game is workable or not on a PS4-level hardware & whether or not it'd be good or not
 
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ILikeFeet said:
I'll wait until a studio who's more proficient than Ascendant make due with UE5 before I make judgements on the engine. the tools helped them make the game, but they might have been incapable of squeezing performance out of the engine due to their size
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Oh sure. UE5 games looks demanding but I have no doubt it will run well on Switch 2.
My point is that DLSS alone won't get us easy ports if developers don't shy away from using FSR2 in that awful ultra-performance mode on Series S.
 
Lancelot said:
Ascendant Studios actually customized UE5 a lot to make it somehow performant, that's already more than the average Unreal dev. I'd say that's really the ceiling as long as you wish to target 60 FPS at all costs with Nanite, Lumen and Niagara all enabled.
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where did you see that at? I know they customized prior versions before moving on to newer builds. but that read more like the current version they used was stock

syrozz said:
Oh sure. UE5 games looks demanding but I have no doubt it will run well on Switch 2.
My point was DLSS alone won't get us easy ports if devs are not shy of already using FSR2 in this awful ultra performance mode.
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DLSS isn't a panacea people make it out to be, methinks. I don't think IQ is off the table to be cut if the performance needs it for other systems
 
darthdiablo said:
Weird - I recognize that username from around here. And is linking to an old tweet from Connor in March.

If it's the same Connor, Connor has been ousted as untrustworthy by someone on Famiboards - feeding Connor false info and it was then tweeted out by Connor without vetting, if I recalled.
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He is in here I recognise the avatar LMAO. Why not post that here first instead of reddit hmmm.
 
Lancelot said:
And no, given an hypothetical PS4/XOne-like Switch 2 wouldn't be able to run said Series S game at 540p acceptably if GPU bound, you'd have to go lower
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Why? If purely looking at GPU, then only having to process 1/4 the pixels in an attempt to get halfway to what a 4 teraflop machine is producing seems like a pretty low bar.
 
Blue Monty said:
The issue with comparing Switch 2 to handhelds like Deck/Ally is that Switch 2 needs to also be a home console which means running games at higher resolutions than something like the Deck won’t have any need for (you can use the dock but the Deck isn’t designed for gaming 1080p+ in big screens). So while the performance of the Deck can be great for a handheld it would be mediocre for a home console. (I know that the Switch in the end is a handheld like Deck/Ally but it’s sold and acts as more than that)
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Can confirm. Playing on my deck Docked is an ass experience so just don't do it anymore. While you can technically do it, it's extremely inconvenient and you need to manually switch a bunch of settings so things are properly calibrated for you display, assuming usual PC shenanigans don't stop your display from being properly recognized.
 
ILikeFeet said:
where did you see that at? I know they customized prior versions before moving on to newer builds. but that read more like the current version they used was stock
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It was the technical video they made before release, they customized Nanite and Lumen quite a bit for performance since the full blown set is super demanding for 60 FPS targets.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Why? If purely looking at GPU, then only having to process 1/4 the pixels in an attempt to get halfway to what a 4 teraflop machine is producing seems like a pretty low bar.
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Yes, but Series S is no longer holding 1080p/60 in any game at all. That was with cross gen games, remember, we just named an UE5 game dropping all the way down to 480p to run in there. How much overhead is even left for this hypothetical, underpowered Switch 2?
 
Truno said:
Do they discuss software? Or is it a, "I miss Iwata and Reggie. Current day Nintendo has no soul, look at the Switch's UI!" kind of situation
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I didn't care much for Iwata and Reggie- though they're definitely more charismatic people than Furukawa and Doug, they're just executives at the end of the day.

For me it was software and community. It wasn't just Windwaker HD, there was Tingle Bottles. Mario Maker comments were interactive. Heck, I preferred Mario Maker to 2, and Windwaker HD to TOTK, so those are wins in and of themselves.

I understand the lack of "community" features on Switch, and while I enjoyed them, I actually DON'T want them to return. But what I do miss about Wii U, that can be replicated without failing, is Nintendo games that are unapologetically Nintendo. They don't make excuses. They don't shake up the formula. They're just the best of the best of Nintendo's work, and nothing more, and not one drop less. A lot of Switch software, rightfully I think, goes out of its way to shake things up, but, Wii U was MODERN gaming with MODERN controls and sensibilities- while also still being the same games I've loved for decades.

I think the game with the vibe I'm thinking of on Switch and only Switch would be ARMS: unapologetically different, unapologetically niche, unapologetically charming. In terms of a game on Wii U that captures it perfectly, Pikmin 3, incredible vibes.

In terms of a game that VIOLATES everything I like about Wii U... Hello Super Mario Odyssey and Mario Bros. Wonder. There is such a thing as TOO different for comfort.

On Wii U I was head to toe a MARIO fan. Switch has very much changed that. I love Bowser's Fury, but compared to Wii and Wii U, I am not enjoying Mario's platformer outings on Switch.

I kinda want next gen to just... unapologetically wallow. 4K remasters of Wii and Wii U games. Iterative sequels to Switch games. More of the same isn't bad when "the same" is "my favourite". We see a bit of this with TTYHD and F-Zero 99: absolutely WALLOWING games. Zero progress for their respective series. And yet they make me happy.

And yes this means I want ARMS 2 in 4K, damn it.
 
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Lancelot said:
Yes, but Series S is no longer holding 1080p/60 in any game at all. That was with cross gen games, remember, we just named an UE5 game dropping all the way down to 480p to run in there. How much overhead is even left for this hypothetical, underpowered Switch 2?
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well in that case port only half of the current gen games that were released from 2020 to this day & then go back to making a port once in a while?
that's how switch functioned with PS4 & XONE games
 
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P4bl0 said:
Yeah he is active in this thread that’s why I’m curious on why is he posting this on Reddit
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somethings are so crazy just have to share them with a wider audience on reddit rather than keep it inside this thread where it can be lost in the shuffle im guessing
 
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ILikeFeet said:
honestly, I can't say they did the best job. especially with Fortnite there to compare it to
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Well, Epic is the literal developer. There's also degrees to how much you can push those features, Immortals went for a full fat implementation (plus Niagara) which indeed destroyed performance... But it's not gonna get much better until the engine itself is optimized.
 
LitKai said:
Another 10 meaningless pages will be added
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WE GONNA FARM IT UNTIL WE BECOME THE FIRST POSTCAP THREAD!
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


Seriously though, it's T239, any suggestion otherwise is clearly misinformed at the moment XD. And clearly some people are having fun with how fast people will believe anything.
 
Lancelot said:
Well, Epic is the literal developer. There's also degrees to how much you can push those features, Immortals went for a full fat implementation (plus Niagara) which indeed destroyed performance... But it's not gonna get much better until the engine itself is optimized.
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that's sorta my point. a small studio who threw everything at the wall can't really be a picture of optimization. sometimes, optimization is turning settings, framerate, and/or resolution down
 
Lancelot said:
Yes, but Series S is no longer holding 1080p/60 in any game at all. That was with cross gen games, remember, we just named an UE5 game dropping all the way down to 480p to run in there. How much overhead is even left in there?
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I was just trying to respond to your initial goalposts, man.

But in the case of Aveum, the Series S game already seems to be "no longer what you'd call an acceptable state" by your definition. If we're allowed to go unacceptable, and that game can get as low as 768×436@60 before FSR2 apparently, then Switch 2 portable doing something like 640x360@30 before DLSS might be feasible with no worse if not better image quality.
 
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