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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Dakhil said:
No.

But Arm did mention the Cortex-A78C supports up to 8 MB of L3 cache instead of up to 4 MB of L3 cache for the Cortex-A78 and the Cortex-A78AE.
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Perfect thank you! 4MB is also supported for the A78C cluster so I was planning on going with that when doing the area estimate of the cluster. I suppose they could end up going with 8MB L3 but personally I think 4MB is more likely since it's an easy way to decrease die size and the increase in effective bandwidth for the CPU cluster is probably not a cost tradeoff Nintendo would've been willing to make especially since the CPU is unlikely to be bandwidth constrained. I'll see how much area the additional 4MB would end up occupying once I'm done with the initial die size estimate.
 
oldpuck said:
Cache is a little pricey, but the actual values will vary based on node - how much I'm not sure, it's not my area of expertise at all.

There are only a few reasons to go with A78C over base A78, and the cache is maybe the biggest one. So I tend to assume that Nintendo is going to leverage the larger cache, but it's a weak assumption - I wouldn't be surprised if the single cluster and the security features were basically "free" wins, and the larger cache was never considered.
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Does A78C have additional security features compared to A78? I thought it was only A78AE that had that
 
The 13th would probably be the latest for a Direct this month, because Tokyo Game Show is the week after. Kinda hoping it goes back to the afternoon; I'm not too fond of waking up early just to watch one, even if I miss it during work.
 
Whenever I saw the fake insider news concerning the "Nintendo Focus," all I could think of is the "Focus" ability in Skies of Arcadia to generate more Spirit Points.

Might as well call the platform the Nintendo Meditation System so they could tie into their QOL stuff from a decade ago, and fulfill their destiny!

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Nintendo Focus doesn't sound that marketable of a name. Plus I have doubts on Nintendo going back to AMD for hardware this soon just because FSR happens to work on NVIDIA (and Intel) GPUs.

Of course, if you want that guy's Twitter to shut up, just starve the flame. Attention is just kindling to fringe accounts like that.
 
Hosermess said:
Had a similar but completely opposite experience at a much smaller con. I was dressed as Canadian legend Red Green and someone wondered if I was in costume or if I just dressed like that normally.

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To be fair, that is not unusual attire. I'm from Wisconsin, and flannel shirts, suspenders, and a massive infatuation to duct tape isn't unheard of.
 
You people are mistaken. Nintendo Focus is the name of the hardware reveal event for the Switch 2. The name and price and launch titles will be revealed there.
 
GrandDemand said:
Perfect thank you! 4MB is also supported for the A78C cluster so I was planning on going with that when doing the area estimate of the cluster. I suppose they could end up going with 8MB L3 but personally I think 4MB is more likely since it's an easy way to decrease die size and the increase in effective bandwidth for the CPU cluster is probably not a cost tradeoff Nintendo would've been willing to make especially since the CPU is unlikely to be bandwidth constrained. I'll see how much area the additional 4MB would end up occupying once I'm done with the initial die size estimate.
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To play devil's advocate, I think giving the CPU 8 MB of L3 cache is probably going to help mitigate the issue of RAM bandwidth to a degree since I think a CPU with 8 MB of L3 cache won't be as reliant on the RAM as a CPU with 4 MB of L3 cache.

The Nintendo Switch's biggest bottlenecks are the CPU (the amount of CPU cores and the CPU frequency) and the RAM bandwidth (the RAM amount and the RAM bandwidth). I think Nintendo can easily remedy the amount of CPU cores and the RAM amount. But I expect the CPU frequency and the RAM bandwidth to still be the major bottlenecks for Nintendo's new hardware, although not to the same degree as with the Nintendo Switch. (That's why I think giving the GPU 4 MB of L2 cache (same as Orin's GPU) vs 1 MB of L2 cache is ideal.)

And I don't think die size is a huge issue, especially if Nintendo and Nvidia did decide to fabricate Drake using TSMC's 4N process node.
GrandDemand said:
Does A78C have additional security features compared to A78? I thought it was only A78AE that had that
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Arm mentioned the Cortex-A78C supports Armv8.3-A and Armv8.6-A, which are pointer authentication support, and enhanced authentication support, respectively, as well as cryptography and RAS extensions. (The Cortex-A78AE according to Arm doesn't support Armv8.3-A (the pointer authentication support) and Armv8.6-A.)
 
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Hermii said:
Did you know the price difference between the different cache configurations? Nintendo will probably go for the best bang for buck, not the best performance unless they happen to coincide.
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It’s irrelevant. There are no significant savings to be made there. In fact, you would end up with more waste. Not to mention the “cheap” narrative is both irritating and without foundation, given how much the worst case expectations on here have been exceeded on this thing already. But one doesn’t need a rumour mill to determine that it’s A78C. Vanilla A78 doesn’t exist in single cluster octa-core capacity. When it does exist in octa-core form, it’s mostly paired with X1 and A55 in multiple clusters. It’s less about “bang for buck” and everything to do with how performance efficient it is. Single cluster octa-core is the best option, as it saves more on the power consumption budget as well as SoC space, while allowing for better clocks in the process.
 
Hermii said:
Yea, but when they're contradicting each other (hence my tx1 vs dlss soc example), I will personally put my money on the data mines. That's all I'm saying.
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This is getting too complex for me to respond to adequately. Basically, I think it's a huge oversimplification. The specific scenario shaking out where there was a profile saying something with an OLED screen and the same SoC was launching, vs. reporting saying a model with an OLED screen and a different SoC was launching, came from two totally differently worlds of information and it's only with the benefit of hindsight that they can even be compared to each other. To make the comparison and say one side was right in contradicting the other requires layering in several other assumptions -- a new profile being developed in the firmware will be used by future hardware, profiles in development won't change in significant ways, combinations of hardware not represented by profiles must not be happening in the future -- some of which held true in the specific case of the OLED, but shouldn't be assumed as permanent truths, and some of which have already not held true, like the fact that some kind of docked-only digital-only Switch profile existed since launch (and even got updated when they switched to Mariko) but has never been used (and will never be used).

It's also a little too flattering to the data miners to say "well they were clear about what was speculation," because yes, everything other than that was spelled out in nearly plain English in the firmware was speculation, but what got out was a synthesis of the facts plus their speculation, because they were attempting to describe a real Switch model, spurred by the reporting, not just posting factually about their firmware finds.

But yeah, that specific combination of circumstances leading to a direct contradiction is unlikely to ever happen again. And even if it seemed to happen again, I'd proportion my beliefs to the evidence and the reliability of the reporting, not assume that one side is right just because the basis of their information is known to be factual. At best we can say that they reliably get the details of firmware profiles right, so if a model releases that uses that profile, then their information will be borne out.
 
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Angel Whispers said:
It’s irrelevant. There are no significant savings to be made there. In fact, you would end up with more waste. Not to mention the “cheap” narrative is both irritating and without foundation, given how much the worst case expectations on here have been exceeded on this thing already. But one doesn’t need a rumour mill to determine that it’s A78C. Vanilla A78 doesn’t exist in single cluster octa-core capacity. When it does exist in octa-core form, it’s mostly paired with X1 and A55 in multiple clusters. It’s less about “bang for buck” and everything to do with how performance efficient it is. Single cluster octa-core is the best option, as it saves more on the power consumption budget as well as SoC space, while allowing for better clocks in the process.
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I wasnt arguing about A78C or not I agree with everything you said about that. A78C comes with multiple cache configurations, I was arguing against Nintendo going for the beefiest one. Both ps5 and Xbox series cut down on cpu cache compared to their desktop equivalents. Besides price, there are other factors to consider, such as die size and power consumption.
 
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LiC said:
The camera thing looks like "Source: Dude trust me." Even the way it's phrased doesn't make sense -- what does a camera have to do with VR? Made up IMO.
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Cameras are used for most VR tech and are a basic requirement for AR tech.

Technically the switch already has a camera, but it's only an infrared one and placed in the most useless possible spot for one. I rememeber months ago asking here if Switch 2 might possibly use a camera as its new gimmick and someone else (i forget who; apologies) responding by pointing out that one of the differences between Drake and Orin is that Drake has Orin's camera tech related stuff removed.
 
Quoted by: LiC
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TomNookYankees said:
Cameras are used for most VR tech and are a basic requirement for AR tech.

Technically the switch already has a camera, but it's only an infrared one and placed in the most useless possible spot for one. I rememeber months ago asking here if Switch 2 might possibly use a camera as its new gimmick and someone else (i forget who; apologies) responding by pointing out that one of the differences between Drake and Orin is that Drake has Orin's camera tech related stuff removed.
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Separate external cameras may be used in VR for boundaries and tracking, but that's not the device itself (Switch in this case) using a camera.

And yeah, I was the one who responded.
 
Dark Cloud said:
I don’t believe he’s commented on anything AR. If he knows about it he hasn’t said anything.
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Ah I misunderstood then.

About AR: Nvidia spent untold millions R&D ing image sensing tech for cars, and Drake is made by the same team as Orin. Makes sense Nintendo would tap into that.
 
Dark Cloud said:
Angie found something else too

Post in thread 'Andy Robinson on VGC Podcast says that the latest NateTheHate new info on Switch 2 is "On the money"'
https://www.resetera.com/threads/an...witch-2-is-on-the-money.749914/post-111143980

If you want to push AR gimmick type stuff or improve it that’s fine with me. Nothing that changes up controllers or anything like that is good. It’s more optional stuff.
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That Era post was referencing the debunked PixArt story to speculate about image sensors for the alleged camera. I don’t know how credible the camera rumor is, but that PixArt story is definitely not a supporting evidence.

Edit: 1) That video is made by a Chinese YouTuber residing abroad, therefore I don’t know how trustworthy he is regarding the supply chain rumors. More importantly, he did not say anything about camera in the video but that the new Joy-Con will support new way(s) to play. 2) Does this Era user know the Chinese language? I vaguely remember this isn’t the first time that they misquoted a Chinese rumor.
 
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LiC said:
The camera thing looks like "Source: Dude trust me." Even the way it's phrased doesn't make sense -- what does a camera have to do with VR? Made up IMO.
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VR sounds like speculation, a camera (even a terrible one) found it's place in games on the DSi and the 3DS.

Might have nothing to do with VR, something to do with AR, but adding a camera could add backwards compatibility with Gameboy Camera, DSi game and even 3DS ports. If there's a front-facing one, I believe Wii U as well?

edit: I'm realizing you're only talking about the validity of this specific "leak" but I'm just thinking out loud about why the next one could have a camera.
 
Dark Cloud said:
Angie found something else too

Post in thread 'Andy Robinson on VGC Podcast says that the latest NateTheHate new info on Switch 2 is "On the money"'
https://www.resetera.com/threads/an...witch-2-is-on-the-money.749914/post-111143980

If you want to push AR gimmick type stuff or improve it that’s fine with me. Nothing that changes up controllers or anything like that is good. It’s more optional stuff.
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I'm here for the Funcles 👀

===

Agree that an AR camera feature would be very Nintendo and they certainly have a ton of demonstrated interest in the tech over the years.
 
Lenovo Go packing an 8.8", 1440p LCD with a 144 Hz refresh rate and VRR. Fully detachable Switch style controllers.

I really do think Nintendo needs to take the handheld PC segement seriously. It's growing incredibly quickly, and unlike past handled gaming efforts from Sony or mobile phones, these devices pose a much more serious threat to Nintendo in the handheld gaming space. People have access to all their PC games/Steam library. The hardware quality of these devices is really solid, and the Go looks to be the best yet. And the device power that is rapidly increasing thanks to new chips and new nodes, etc.

LpalUMd.png

RurDJyU.png

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uncleoptimus said:
I'm here for the Funcles 👀

===

Agree that an AR camera feature would be very Nintendo and they certainly have a ton of demonstrated interest in the tech over the years.
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AR? You mean the Joy-Con (R) IR Motion Camera 2.0? 😉

A "camera" or "motion technology" doesn't mean much if anything, really, and T239 had its camera tech stripped. I don't expect this generation at all beyond a phone app gimmick. Maybe the generation after next.
 
Dark Cloud said:
This person needs to be reported because they’re going to spoil the direct again. Hopefully, Nintendo or someone can make them stop
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I personally like the vague hints they give. The strings of emojis didn't make sense until the direct finally aired, and then everyone went "OH". The speculation for Wonder going as far as suggesting Wiggler as a playable character and Waluigi as the villain were wild.
 
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Sol said:
Lenovo Go packing an 8.8", 1440p LCD with a 144 Hz refresh rate and VRR. Fully detachable Switch style controllers.

I really do think Nintendo needs to take the handheld PC segement seriously. It's growing incredibly quickly, and unlike past handled gaming efforts from Sony or mobile phones, these devices pose a much more serious threat to Nintendo in the handheld gaming space. People have access to all their PC games/Steam library. The hardware quality of these devices is really solid, and the Go looks to be the best yet. And the device power that is rapidly increasing thanks to new chips and new nodes, etc.

LpalUMd.png

RurDJyU.png

cTLyGDk.png


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Unfortunately none of these companies seem to realize that we don't want exponentially larger and higher resolution displays. I might just be speaking for myself here, but I think people want more power in a smaller form factor, not a glorified iPad.
 
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