StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[Koren Lesthe]

Yup, 3.8

If I recall correctly, the Switch 2 won't be able to use DLSS Frame Generation tho (just like my RTX 3060 Ti) ?

 

[darthdiablo]

If I recall correctly, the Switch 2 won't be able to use DLSS Frame Generation tho (just like my RTX 3060 Ti) ?

The assumption is that Switch 2 won't do FG, correct (but it's a "we don't know yet" thing, because it's not pure Ampere, it's Ampere with some elements of Lovelace).

But 3.8 does not inherently mean the hardware will be able to do FG. Switch 2 can still be version 3.8 for DLSS and not do FG.

Refer to this chart - look at leftmost and rightmost columns, "All RTX GPUs", including features that are considered 3.5 or above.

nvidia's marketing & version scheme is understandably confusing.

 

[SiG]

If I recall correctly, the Switch 2 won't be able to use DLSS Frame Generation tho (just like my RTX 3060 Ti) ?

Not Frame Generation, but DLSS 3.8 also includes much improved AI upscaling, which all Nvidia RTX line architecture can do.

 

[omniryu]

Let's shake this up with a new question. How hard is it to do loading off the CPU? I know we won't know the exact implementation with Nintendo's FDE (unless any devs wanna slide in my DM and tell me (I will buy your game if you do?) )

But how hard is it to code or use PS5 IO processor or Xbox's implementation?

 

[BDGAME]

The Steam Deck doesn't really output at resolutions above 1080p for last gen games and even then, the system doesn't do better than PS4 at that resolution a lot of the time due to GPU and bandwidth bottlenecks. The other components of the system and the architecture are above PS4 Pro obviously but when people mention PS4 Pro the big thing it brought to the table were resolutions above 1080p.

Comparing to the Steam Deck makes sense but if Switch 2 docked is suppose to go above 1080p then in last gen games PS4 Pro is a good comparison point.

SteamDeck has only 800p screen, why it need to go to 1080p?
Look, most of Series S games are at 1080p, what, according to you, is inferior to Ps4 PRO.

But that is not the focus I was talking about, but the capacities. Steam Deck can run the SpiderMan with the same effects as the Ps5 version, it can run Rift Apart, what ps4 can't. StemDeck is a 9th gen machine and can run 9th gen games that both, PS4 and Ps4 PRO can't.

Switch 2 will be a 9th gen machine too, with high speed memory and modern effects. It will run current gen games like SteamDeck and Series S and, because of that, these hardware will be better to compare than last gen Sony consoles.

 

[omniryu]

The assumption is that Switch 2 won't do FG, correct (but it's a "we don't know yet" thing, because it's not pure Ampere, it's Ampere with some elements of Lovelace).

But 3.8 does not inherently mean the hardware will be able to do FG. Switch 2 can still be version 3.8 for DLSS and not do FG.

Refer to this chart - look at leftmost and rightmost columns, "All RTX GPUs", including features that are considered 3.5 or above.

nvidia's marketing & version scheme is understandably confusing.

Isn't there a lot of latency with FG?

 

[darthdiablo]

Isn't there a lot of latency with FG?

Yes. Everything about DLSS just like any other post-processing technologies, has latency costs, it's not just FG. But that's besides the point.

I was simply stating hardware that can do DLSS 3.8 (or anything 3.5+) does not inherently mean it can do FG.

 

[Steve]

I'm in the believe that the Switch 2 doesn't need FG, since it makes most games look iffy and is told be used, when you're in the 60fps-80fps range

but I do think Ray Reconstruction on the Switch 2 is massive, I mean it's a very big deal

 

[Evil Lucario]

Speaking of input lag, I wonder if Switch 2 will actually improve on that front. Many sequels on Switch have more input lag than their Wii U predecessors, like Mario Maker, Splatoon, and Smash.

And one of the biggest issues with STGs on Switch is that it is consistently 1-2 frames laggier than competitive platforms, and unlike PS4, devs cannot toggle Vsync off on Switch to claw back 1 frame.

 

[Deleted member 735]

Here's a question for people smarter than me: We know the tensor cores are used for DLSS, but could they be used for a more general AI system?

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

https://aidungeon.com/ has been around since the pre-ChatGPT days. It’s fun to goof around in, but imo, feels both more random and less adventurous than a real DM.

As to whether it could run on the tensor cores: LLMs are large for a reason! The transformer has been the standard architecture since 2017, because the attention heads that make up the architecture can process very long sequences of text with high recall. The problem is that they scale quadratically, so they require lots of compute and memory. The main difference between each version of GPT has been the number of parameters and the size of the training set.

Ideally, if you want it to run locally like on the tensor cores, you need a small language model. Lately, state space models have come onto the scene, which scale linearly with the token length. Compared to transformers, they don’t perform as well on long sequences. But Nvidia published a model just last month that combines transformers and state space models in some interesting ways. So who knows what the state of the art will be in ten years!

 

[oldpuck]

Let's shake this up with a new question. How hard is it to do loading off the CPU? I know we won't know the exact implementation with Nintendo's FDE (unless any devs wanna slide in my DM and tell me (I will buy your game if you do?) )

But how hard is it to code or use PS5 IO processor or Xbox's implementation?

We do have some hints of how the FDE works, and it seems like a pretty straightforward implementation, at the low level. I imagine it will be wrapped in an even nicer API by the SDK. How that compares to the Xbox/PS5 API I couldn't tell you. I imagine much simpler, since it seems like a simpler piece of hardware.

 

[Zellia]

Staff Communication

Hi everyone,

Just a quick note on the BCL (Banned Content List). Games that are on there are generally on there for the comfort and protection of minority communities on the site, particularly the trans and gender-variant communities.

We understand sometimes people slip up, and this is why we generally only do feedback. We also rely on a degree of community self-moderation, as seen in the many cases where a user has posted BCL content, been reminded of this by other users, and has removed the content on their own initiative.

Knowingly posting BCL content and refusing to remove it when asked by another user, stating "the mods can remove it if they want" shows a flippant disregard for the concept. The point of it is not platforming it and exposing marginalized members to it in the first place. If you are not sure if something is BCL, please ask one of us.

Thanks for your understanding.

- Zellia, Phendrift, Tangerine_Cookie, PixelKnight, MarcelRguez, KilgoreWolfe, meatbag, WonderLuigi

 

[LiC]

Yes. Everything about DLSS just like any other post-processing technologies, has latency costs, it's not just FG. But that's besides the point.

I was simply stating hardware that can do DLSS 3.8 (or anything 3.5+) does not inherently mean it can do FG.

DLSS doesn't have a latency cost, it just takes some frame time. The word latency is sometimes used when referring to DLSS or other rendering steps, but it just means "time taken" in that context, not input/response delay like frame generation causes.

 

[Mirev]

Yup, 3.8

Wait we got an update?

 

[darthdiablo]

DLSS doesn't have a latency cost, it just takes some frame time. The word latency is sometimes used when referring to DLSS or other rendering steps, but it just means "time taken" in that context, not input/response delay like frame generation causes.

Yeah, I meant some type of cost. I used "latency" because I thought that was what @omniryu meant, so I take it as he was asking if FG had costs.

I didn't realize "latency" was specific to FG, that it actually adds input/response delay. TIL.

 

[Ryoku]

Wait we got an update?

I'm assuming it will support software updates to DLSS. 3.8 is just the most recent update (3.8.10 to be exact).

 

[Mirev]

I'm assuming it will support software updates to DLSS. 3.8 is just the most recent update (3.8.10 to be exact).

Oh I didn't know, thanks!

 

[gabeplays]

Admittedly a part of me does worry that people here may be overhyping the system, and it ends up not meeting expectations.

That really can't happen given everything that is "confirmed" about the console. Everyone has a lot of assurance because of all the data is public and has been diligently put together every since the Nvidia leak. We know it'll have 12gigs of the newer LDRR5X ram. We know it'll have 256gigs of storage space, and so-on, and so-forth. Everyone here is naturally bias in that they want the console to be the best that it can be, but the data the enthusiasm is derived from is solid. It's pretty validating seeing "BEE-006" in my own Nintendo Switch TOS.

Anyone expecting it to be a Series S docked, or that thinks we’ll be getting 4k DLSS in graphically intense games is overhyping it, but I’m personally just expecting PS4 quality visuals with some more modern effects sprinkled in at 1440p DLSS max most often. That’s all it really needs to be. Nintendo will cook with that class of hardware.

I agree with @Concernt. This is the sort of thing that is so much more nuanced than that. 4k will definitely be what devs target and, for a lot of games, that'll be the case. 4k 60fps games will be a thing, though I imagine those will be quite rare. I imagine loads of indie titles will be in 4k. First party games...heck, games in general will target 4k.

An example of how nuanced I expect things to be is this: I do agree we'll see lots of 1440p 60fps which is what I expect Splatoon 4 matches to look like, but for when you're just walking around in the new hub world like Splatsville? I expect it to flip to 4k 30fps akin to how it already is in Splatoon 3. There's just no straightforward answer, but 4k is the new 1080p and definitely will be the target whenever possible.

As for the Series S, it definitely won't be the same docked considering it's weaker in some areas and ahead in others. Most important of all, developers will be optimizing for the Switch 2 in ways they never felt incentivized for the Series S. The Series S is tragically not much more than a console to port down to. The Switch 2 is the successor to the currently third best selling console of all time. If there is a game released on both platforms, I do expect the Switch 2 to edge out.

Random question but do we have any probably guesses on what level of DLSS will likely be used?

Most likely 2.0 correct?

As has already been said by a lot of people, the T239 (the guts powering the Switch 2) is fundamentally based on Ampere/Geforce3000-series cards. That means, whatever those cards can get, the Switch 2 can. DLSS, Ray Tracing, Ray Reconstruction, are all onboard. Frame Generation isn't because Nvidia has made it clear that it's exclusive to Lovelace/Geforce4000-series.

There is a level of futureproofing that, as long as Nvidia creates techniques that are viable on Ampere, the Switch 2 stands to benefit.

 

[Concernt]

That really can't happen given everything that is "confirmed" about the console. Everyone has a lot of assurance because of all the data is public and has been diligently put together every since the Nvidia leak. We know it'll have 12gigs of the newer LDRR5X ram. We know it'll have 256gigs of storage space, and so-on, and so-forth. Everyone here is naturally bias in that they want the console to be the best that it can be, but the data the enthusiasm is derived from is solid. It's pretty validating seeing "BEE-006" in my own Nintendo Switch TOS.




I agree with @Concernt. This is the sort of thing that is so much more nuanced than that. 4k will definitely be what devs target and, for a lot of games, that'll be the case. 4k 60fps games will be a thing, though I imagine those will be quite rare. I imagine loads of indie titles will be in 4k. First party games...heck, games in general will target 4k.

An example of how nuanced I expect things to be is this: I do agree we'll see lots of 1440p 60fps which is what I expect Splatoon 4 matches to look like, but for when you're just walking around in the new hub world like Splatsville? I expect it to flip to 4k 30fps akin to how it already is in Splatoon 3. There's just no straightforward answer, but 4k is the new 1080p and definitely will be the target.

As for the Series S, it definitely won't be the same docked considering it's weaker in some areas and ahead in others. Most important of all, developers will be optimizing for the Switch 2 in ways they never felt incentivized for the Series S. The Series S is tragically not much more than a console to port down to. The Switch 2 is the successor to the currently third best selling console of all time. If there is a game released on both platforms, I do expect the Switch 2 to edge out.


As has already been said by a lot of people, the T239 (the guts powering the Switch 2) is fundamentally based on Ampere/Geforce3000-series cards. That means, whatever those cards can get, the Switch 2 can. DLSS, Ray Tracing, Ray Reconstruction, are all onboard. Frame Generation isn't because Nvidia has made it clear that it's exclusive to Lovelace/Geforce4000-series.

There is a level of futureproofing that, as long as Nvidia creates techniques that are viable on Ampere, the Switch 2 stands to benefit.

For what it's worth I don't think 4K60 will be any more rare than 1080p60 is now. The successor is better suited to 4K than the first Switch was to 1080p in many ways. If Nintendo desires a 4K60 presentation for the next 3D Mario they should be entirely able to achieve it, albeit every demand takes some sort of sacrifice.

1440p feels a bit defeatest as a target. Why should the next Splatoon, or a next gen update for Splatoon 3, settle for that? Even if it integrates a dynamic resolution scaler, why not target 4K as your ceiling and keep a simple upscaler (say a spacial one like FSR) to fill in the gaps.

1440p as a target I have no doubt will suit many games, but remember it's not to 4K as 900p is to 1080p - it's more akin to 4K's equivalent of 720p. There's lots of resolutions between it and full 4K, 1800p for example. It's not a case of "We can't get a 60FPS lock at 4K, let's give up on that.", it's "We want a 4K60 presentation, we'll implement DRS with a 1440p lower bound to maintain performance and use upscaling when it isn't hitting the target."

I think Tears of the Kingdom is probably the most demanding game to come out of Nintendo and it does THAT but with 1080p - a dynamic resolution with a 1080p cap, with upscaling making up the difference when it can't hit that cap. When the next system has better upscaling, and more performance per pixel at 4K than the Switch has at 1080p, why would we expect that approach to change? To get WORSE at trying to hit the cap? To give up?

Nintendo isn't building a 4K system for fun - they're building it so that games can present at 4K, and like they put a huge amount of effort into games hitting the peak output of 1080p on Nintendo Switch, I would expect nothing less next time around, with a huge amount of effort put in to ensure the output is a pleasing 4K image.

 

[Enryu]

SteamDeck has only 800p screen, why it need to go to 1080p?
Look, most of Series S games are at 1080p, what, according to you, is inferior to Ps4 PRO.

But that is not the focus I was talking about, but the capacities. Steam Deck can run the SpiderMan with the same effects as the Ps5 version, it can run Rift Apart, what ps4 can't. StemDeck is a 9th gen machine and can run 9th gen games that both, PS4 and Ps4 PRO can't.

Switch 2 will be a 9th gen machine too, with high speed memory and modern effects. It will run current gen games like SteamDeck and Series S and, because of that, these hardware will be better to compare than last gen Sony consoles.

Steamdeck is a PC

 

[Danny]

Given that Nintendo has gone for a 1080p screen on the Switch 2, it seems likely that Nintendo is aiming for their first party titles on Switch 2 to be 1080p in handheld mode, so Nintendo first party games will look better in handheld mode than Steam deck games, due to higher resolution. As for third party games on Switch 2, it will vary from game to game what resolution they will aim for in handheld mode.

 

[Goodtwin]

Steam Deck is more modern than a PS4, but at higher resolutions, basically anything above 800p, it struggles to outperform a PS4 when playing the same game. It seemingly becomes bottlenecked by memory bandwidth, an area where the PS4 really excels. However, the GPU is more modern and therefore supports various techniques that the PS4 does not. We are now seeing a more complete transition away from last gen consoles with the PS5 and Series consoles being the primary target. SD is in a similar spot that the Switch was in 2017. The Tegra X1 is more modern than the PS4 and Xbox One GPU but it way down on raw performance. Moving forward we will see games still capable of running on the SD because it supports the full feature set, but resolutions will continue to get pushed lower in order to accomodate the increasingly demanding games. Switch 2 on the other hand will have DLSS and we have seen examples of 360p rendering resolutions scaled up to 1080p with convinging results. In docked mode, we simply dont know for sure what that time slice is going to be for DLSS 4K. If every game ships with its own bespoke version of DLSS where the machine learning was done specifically for that game, then perhaps the frame cost could be shockingly low. We just dont know because this will be the first time DLSS has been used outside of the PC space.

Even amongst Nintendo fans, most people that do not frequent message boards like this are very unaware of the known specs for T239. Most people that are unfamiliar with the leaks have expectations that are pretty low, usually thinking it will be a PS4 or slightly better. Nintendo is in a great situtation here where the technology will actually impress their audience in a big way. If a casual look at a game running on Switch 2 can be confused with the PS5 counterpart, that would be a big win.

 

[darthdiablo]

If every game ships with its own bespoke version of DLSS where the machine learning was done specifically for that game, then perhaps the frame cost could be shockingly low. We just dont know because this will be the first time DLSS has been used outside of the PC space.

I was not aware this was an available choice for devs (ML'ing to create bespoke version of DLSS for the game specifically) - thought the only choice would be like a blanket version across games, that's good to know.

 

[omniryu]

We do have some hints of how the FDE works, and it seems like a pretty straightforward implementation, at the low level. I imagine it will be wrapped in an even nicer API by the SDK. How that compares to the Xbox/PS5 API I couldn't tell you. I imagine much simpler, since it seems like a simpler piece of hardware.

Great! I do hope third party will make great use of it. Quick loading is the highlight of this gen.

Yeah, I meant some type of cost. I used "latency" because I thought that was what @omniryu meant, so I take it as he was asking if FG had costs.

I didn't realize "latency" was specific to FG, that it actually adds input/response delay. TIL.

Well, not to put myself down, I have very slow reaction time so I doubt FG will affect me as much as it would do for others.

Even amongst Nintendo fans, most people that do not frequent message boards like this are very unaware of the known specs for T239. Most people that are unfamiliar with the leaks have expectations that are pretty low, usually thinking it will be a PS4 or slightly better. Nintendo is in a great situtation here where the technology will actually impress their audience in a big way. If a casual look at a game running on Switch 2 can be confused with the PS5 counterpart, that would be a big win.

I think your last sentence is very crucial in that it will change the dynamic of what Console and what handheld means for the larger casual audience. I can see large amount of people questioning what's the use of stationary console after this.

 

[Earendil]

https://aidungeon.com/ has been around since the pre-ChatGPT days. It’s fun to goof around in, but imo, feels both more random and less adventurous than a real DM.

As to whether it could run on the tensor cores: LLMs are large for a reason! The transformer has been the standard architecture since 2017, because the attention heads that make up the architecture can process very long sequences of text with high recall. The problem is that they scale quadratically, so they require lots of compute and memory. The main difference between each version of GPT has been the number of parameters and the size of the training set.

Ideally, if you want it to run locally like on the tensor cores, you need a small language model. Lately, state space models have come onto the scene, which scale linearly with the token length. Compared to transformers, they don’t perform as well on long sequences. But Nvidia published a model just last month that combines transformers and state space models in some interesting ways. So who knows what the state of the art will be in ten years!

 

[gabeplays]

Given that the average layperson has very small expectations, whether "Because Nintendo" or because they simply don't know, I think there's no danger of overhyping. Honestly, I think the average response is going to be VERY positive because Nintendo will be capable of everything you see above. Not just ports, but making new games that look like this.

It legit doesn't matter exactly how much the Switch 2 stacks up against the competition. All the above are games that came out as much as eight years ago, but they look so good that you would fool me if you said they were released yesterday. We've long since hit diminishing returns and Nintendo is finally joining the modern Gen9 AAA table. I doubt they have much interest in creating the next big AAA Sad Dad Troy Baker playable movie, but regardless, this is what they will be able to do.

When you take a step back and see, honestly, how little has changed in the past eight years or so with regards to graphical fidelity, it kind of doesn't matter anymore. That's my viewpoint, anyway .

 

[RedSpring]

I know I’m probably reigniting a very tired argument, but was there an answer to those judging the battery compartment too small in the alleged prototype shell and claiming it as proof of 8nm and low clocks?

It's a meaningless observation. Battery size doesn't really hint at anything. People can just a well said that's a small battery means low energy consumption meaning good nodes instead.

 

[ozfunghi]

It's a meaningless observation. Battery size doesn't really hint at anything. People can just a well said that's a small battery means low energy consumption meaning good nodes instead.

This would be a far more logical deduction.

 

[Danny]

Steam Deck is more modern than a PS4, but at higher resolutions, basically anything above 800p, it struggles to outperform a PS4 when playing the same game. It seemingly becomes bottlenecked by memory bandwidth, an area where the PS4 really excels. However, the GPU is more modern and therefore supports various techniques that the PS4 does not. We are now seeing a more complete transition away from last gen consoles with the PS5 and Series consoles being the primary target. SD is in a similar spot that the Switch was in 2017. The Tegra X1 is more modern than the PS4 and Xbox One GPU but it way down on raw performance. Moving forward we will see games still capable of running on the SD because it supports the full feature set, but resolutions will continue to get pushed lower in order to accomodate the increasingly demanding games. Switch 2 on the other hand will have DLSS and we have seen examples of 360p rendering resolutions scaled up to 1080p with convinging results. In docked mode, we simply dont know for sure what that time slice is going to be for DLSS 4K. If every game ships with its own bespoke version of DLSS where the machine learning was done specifically for that game, then perhaps the frame cost could be shockingly low. We just dont know because this will be the first time DLSS has been used outside of the PC space.

Even amongst Nintendo fans, most people that do not frequent message boards like this are very unaware of the known specs for T239. Most people that are unfamiliar with the leaks have expectations that are pretty low, usually thinking it will be a PS4 or slightly better. Nintendo is in a great situtation here where the technology will actually impress their audience in a big way. If a casual look at a game running on Switch 2 can be confused with the PS5 counterpart, that would be a big win.

Yeah, the goal of Nintendo with the Switch 2 is not to impress digital foundry, but as you say to make casuals think there isn't much difference between the Switch 2 and PS5, if they achieve that, and get some big third party games like all the EA sport games, that puts Nintendo in a good spot to get people who didn't buy the Switch to get a Switch 2.

 

[Noleth]

I think if Switch 2 can nail third party support like COD, Madden/Fifa, etc, and doesn’t have a stupid name

Easily will come close to Switch 1 numbers, but I doubt it’ll end up surpassing such huge sales.
Regardless, Monolith Soft will cook up peak fiction.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Yeah, I meant some type of cost. I used "latency" because I thought that was what @omniryu meant, so I take it as he was asking if FG had costs.

I didn't realize "latency" was specific to FG, that it actually adds input/response delay. TIL.

Frame Generation works fundamentally the same way as the interpolation options on TVs, where it delays frames so it can interpolate between them. It's part of why I generally don't see value in the technique.

 

[Steve]

I think if Switch 2 can nail third party support like COD, Madden/Fifa, etc, and doesn’t have a stupid name

Easily will come close to Switch 1 numbers, but I doubt it’ll end up surpassing such huge sales.
Regardless, Monolith Soft will cook up peak fiction.

COD is mandatory for Microsoft, the Activision deal made Nintendo get COD support for the next 10 years, all while stating to be console and content parity

 

[Steve]

Microsoft reaches 10-year deal with Nintendo for Call of Duty

The pressure is now truly on Sony to accept a similar deal.

www.theverge.com

we'll likely see the fruit of this deal next year

 

[ozfunghi]

Staff Communication

Hi everyone,

Just a quick note on the BCL. Games that are on there are generally on there for the comfort and protection of minority communities on the site, particularly the trans and gender-variant communities.

We understand sometimes people slip up, and this is why we generally only do feedback. We also rely on a degree of community self-moderation, as seen in the many cases where a user has posted BCL content, been reminded of this by other users, and has removed the content on their own initiative.

Knowingly posting BCL content and refusing to remove it when asked by another user, stating "the mods can remove it if they want" shows a flippant disregard for the concept. The point of it is not platforming it and exposing marginalized members to it in the first place. If you are not sure if something is BCL, please ask one of us.

Thanks for your understanding.

- Zellia, Phendrift, Tangerine_Cookie, PixelKnight, MarcelRguez, KilgoreWolfe, meatbag, WonderLuigi

What is BCL? I did a google search and scrolled through 5 pages with zero results that could be related to what you are referring to. When i add the word "games" to the search, matters only got worse, and all results were about basketball schedules. If you want people to follow certain etiquette, it would be helpful if people actually knew what you were talking about.

 

[Noleth]

What is BCL? I did a google search and scrolled through 5 pages with zero results that could be related to what you are referring to. When i add the word "games" to the search, matters only got worse, and all results were about basketball schedules. If you want people to follow certain etiquette, it would be helpful if people actually knew what you were talking about.

The game of basketball has been banned from famiboards, has fami gone too far?

 

[Reginald Barclay]

Why are people bringing up "the general public" up when talking about PS4 comparisons? This is quite a hardcore and small forum, the general public wont see the discussions here.
Also what comparisons casual gamers may find easier to understand should not take precidence over what is more accurate. This line of logic could apply to most things here because its where enthusiasts discuss rather technical details of Nintendo's upcoming system.
Its a rather strange whataboutism to try and justify an inaccurate and poor comparison.

 

[Reginald Barclay]

What is BCL? I did a google search and scrolled through 5 pages with zero results that could be related to what you are referring to. When i add the word "games" to the search, matters only got worse, and all results were about basketball schedules. If you want people to follow certain etiquette, it would be helpful if people actually knew what you were talking about.

Banned content list

 

[OctoSplattack]

What is BCL? I did a google search and scrolled through 5 pages with zero results that could be related to what you are referring to. When i add the word "games" to the search, matters only got worse, and all results were about basketball schedules. If you want people to follow certain etiquette, it would be helpful if people actually knew what you were talking about.

BCL stands for "Banned Content List". You can find our list over here: https://famiboards.com/threads/banned-content-list.8059/

 

[BlueManifest]

The switch 2 gpu is capable of ray tracing from what we know right?

 

[yusufied]

The switch 2 gpu is capable of ray tracing from what we know right?

That is right. We also know about a private Gamescom demo that showed off the UE5 Matrix Awakens demo running on target hardware.

 

[ozfunghi]

Banned content list

BCL stands for "Banned Content List". You can find our list over here: https://famiboards.com/threads/banned-content-list.8059/

Thanks.

 

[BlueManifest]

That is right. We also know about a private Gamescom demo that showed off the UE5 Matrix Awakens demo running on target hardware.

Luigi mansion 4 going to be looking good

 

[omniryu]

Why are people bringing up "the general public" up when talking about PS4 comparisons? This is quite a hardcore and small forum, the general public wont see the discussions here.
Also what comparisons casual gamers may find easier to understand should not take precidence over what is more accurate. This line of logic could apply to most things here because its where enthusiasts discuss rather technical details of Nintendo's upcoming system.
Its a rather strange whataboutism to try and justify an inaccurate and poor comparison.

Because they matter, they make up the majority of sales for the Switch 2. Yes, 60 Fps, FG, DLSS matter, but the casual will dictate how successful a console will be. They do not care about the minute details, they want to know if a game has next gen visuals or not. Will the game have GTA 6? Not if it is in 30 FPS or it has the new ray tracing technique, that's what matter to the larger sale

I mean yes. Let's continue discussing this stuff, but it also matter if a game can run, regardless of tech in it.

 

[Danny]

Given that the average layperson has very small expectations, whether "Because Nintendo" or because they simply don't know, I think there's no danger of overhyping. Honestly, I think the average response is going to be VERY positive because Nintendo will be capable of everything you see above. Not just ports, but making new games that look like this.

It legit doesn't matter exactly how much the Switch 2 stacks up against the competition. All the above are games that came out as much as eight years ago, but they look so good that you would fool me if you said they were released yesterday. We've long since hit diminishing returns and Nintendo is finally joining the modern Gen9 AAA table. I doubt they have much interest in creating the next big AAA Sad Dad Troy Baker playable movie, but regardless, this is what they will be able to do.

When you take a step back and see, honestly, how little has changed in the past eight years or so with regards to graphical fidelity, it kind of doesn't matter anymore. That's my viewpoint, anyway .

Even among some gamers on different forums, there is a pretty widespread belief that Switch is weaker than PS3 (Probably due to stuff like Scarlet and Violet). Meaning that if Switch 2 looks like those pictures those kind of gamers will be shellshocked.

 

[Goodtwin]

I was not aware this was an available choice for devs (ML'ing to create bespoke version of DLSS for the game specifically) - thought the only choice would be like a blanket version across games, that's good to know.

@oldpuck spoke on this before.

I don't think so.

When we talk about groups of technologies that build on each other, we generally call them a "stack". A game stack might be something like this:

• Game specific logic
• Generic Engine
• Low Level Graphics Libraries
• Vendor Specific Driver

On PC, games ship the top two parts of the stack. That's why you don't "install UE5" globally on your desktop to run UE5 games. All UE5 games bundle their own copy of UE5. The operating system ships the bottom two layers of the stack.

On PC, DLSS lives in the "Generic Engine" layer of the stack. But on Switch 2, DLSS is baked into the "Low Level Graphics Libraries." You'd think this provides a path by which a system update could update DLSS.

But on Switch - and on the other two consoles as well, to my knowledge - games actually ship the top three layers of the stack. There are a number of technical reasons for this, but the primary one is stability. Generally, this means that games don't break when a system update happens, unlike the driver hell you get on PCs.

Because of this, even though DLSS is baked in at a lower level of the system than on PC, the different distribution mechanism means that games will generally bundle their own version of DLSS, same as on PC.

Im extrapoloating my own theory on this, but it sort of makes sense. If you can do all the ML on a specific game and then make that a bespoke version of DLSS specifically for that game, it should improve its performance. I could be completely off base on this one, but that was my thinking.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Do we know how fast the FDE is? I'm wondering if it could make sense for a hypothetical Gamecube NSO to compress the games (after removing the junk data) to whatever archive format the FDE likes then decompress it to the RAM once the game is chosen. At most that would be about 1.4 gigs assuming no junk data, so would that still be too slow to feel seamless? I figured that would be a way to help mitigate the storage concerns some more.

Shouldn't really have an effect. With or without FDE the data could be compressed. FDE might make it somewhat faster/easier, but for a one-time-per-play thing like "decompress this ~1GB game ROM to main memory", that's only going to matter for a moment where there wasn't other gameplay going on using the main system resources anyway.

It will get compared by those who don't know what they're talking about. There aren't ps4 pro games. It's just a ps4 with a better gpu, so it can get higher res.

I don't understand why this is a meaningful distinction.

 

[Mr.Gamerson]

All Nintendo has to do is World Premiere a few good-looking current gen games at the Switch 2 presentation and that alone will be a huge improvement over the Switch 1 presentation when it comes to showing how well the Switch 2 gels with current gen in comparison to the Switch 1. RE9 being announced at the Switch 2 presentation would be an example of this.

 

[yusufied]

Why are people bringing up "the general public" up when talking about PS4 comparisons? This is quite a hardcore and small forum, the general public wont see the discussions here.
Also what comparisons casual gamers may find easier to understand should not take precidence over what is more accurate. This line of logic could apply to most things here because its where enthusiasts discuss rather technical details of Nintendo's upcoming system.
Its a rather strange whataboutism to try and justify an inaccurate and poor comparison.

Speaking anecdotally my cousin's kids have an understanding that Fortnite "plays better" on their PS4 than it does on their Switch. Even if they aren't able to describe it with technobabble they get it. I think once they get to see Fortnite, as well as other games they like, on the successor they will simply think "yeah this looks like or looks better than my PS4".

 

[Reginald Barclay]

Because they matter, they make up the majority of sales for the Switch 2. Yes, 60 Fps, FG, DLSS matter, but the casual will dictate how successful a console will be. They do not care about the minute details, they want to know if a game has next gen visuals or not. Will the game have GTA 6? Not if it is in 30 FPS or it has the new ray tracing technique, that's what matter to the larger sale

I mean yes. Let's continue discussing this stuff, but it also matter if a game can run, regardless of tech in it.

Of course they matter, but this is a hardware discussion thread, not a Nintendo marketing brainstorming platform and outlet. and even if marketing to the general populace was the goal I don't think PS4 comparisons are a good idea because its a last gen system that really doesn't communicate well what the Switch 2 is nor its capabilities. You mentioned GTA6, which definitely wont be coming to the PS4.

 

[BlueManifest]

Given that the average layperson has very small expectations, whether "Because Nintendo" or because they simply don't know, I think there's no danger of overhyping. Honestly, I think the average response is going to be VERY positive because Nintendo will be capable of everything you see above. Not just ports, but making new games that look like this.

It legit doesn't matter exactly how much the Switch 2 stacks up against the competition. All the above are games that came out as much as eight years ago, but they look so good that you would fool me if you said they were released yesterday. We've long since hit diminishing returns and Nintendo is finally joining the modern Gen9 AAA table. I doubt they have much interest in creating the next big AAA Sad Dad Troy Baker playable movie, but regardless, this is what they will be able to do.

When you take a step back and see, honestly, how little has changed in the past eight years or so with regards to graphical fidelity, it kind of doesn't matter anymore. That's my viewpoint, anyway .

With DLSS and more modern architecture they should be able to surpass this if they wanted with their exclusive games and at a higher resolution

Crazy considering it’s a handheld