StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[googaly10]

People often buy launch games that they otherwise would not have bought because they want to test out games on their new consoles. Ie Super Bomberman sold well as a launch title for Switch, not because the game had a lots of fans, just because people wanting to buy games that were available on their new console. So Nintendo may want people that buy a Switch 2 to test Metroid out. If it only launches as a Switch title only Metroid fans will buy it, but a Switch 2 launch title may lead some people to just buy and test it out that aren't Metroid fans.

Something that is somewhat notable to add to this, Nintendo of America pinned their MP4B gameplay trailer on their Twitter. While it isn’t major or anything, it definitely implies their confidence in the game is very strong. I wouldn’t be surprised if their marketing for the game is gonna go crazy for both systems (though likely primarily Switch 2).

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

(probably 720p native handheld and 1080p native docked.

It would be very attractive indeed if the mp, built entirely to 9th gen technical standards, could be rendered at 720p and 1080p as the rendering resolution, which would mean that dlss would be running in quality mode.

 

[Dakhil]

But yeah, given everything we know about the Switch 2's development -- the Nvidia hack, that Drake wasn't finalized until late 2022, devkits going around in 2023...it would have been completely impossible for Prime 4 to be built on the new hardware. If it was, it wouldn't be released until 2027-2028.

To play devil's advocate, I don't think Retro Studios working on a patch for the Nintendo Switch's successor in parallel with Metroid Prime 4 Beyond itself is an impossibility, especially since Retro Studios most certainly have access to devkits for the Nintendo Switch's successor much earlier than Nintendo's third party partners as an subsidiary of Nintendo.

But yeah, outside of increasing the resolution and the quality of the assets (and perhaps add some minor ray tracing), I don't expect huge improvements from a patch, at least without a significant amount of work on Retro Studios' end.

 

[Aether]

To play devil's advocate, I don't think Retro Studios working on a patch for the Nintendo Switch's successor in parallel with Metroid Prime 4 Beyond itself is an impossibility, especially since Retro Studios most certainly have access to devkits for the Nintendo Switch's successor much earlier than Nintendo's third party partners as an subsidiary of Nintendo.

But yeah, outside of increasing the resolution and the quality of the assets (and perhaps add some minor ray tracing), I don't expect huge improvements from a patch, at least without a significant amount of work on Retro Studios' end.

My biggest gripe is resolution (texture, render) and the animations.
The first 2 they could have easily co developed. Knowing that the target is 4k capable, will have at least 8gb (back then a reasonable assumption) means preparing assets in a higher resolution would be a given.

The animations...yeah, that's not bound to hardware and won't change. But resolution, textures and maybe some ray tracing and I'm more then happy.

 

[ShadowFox08]

To play devil's advocate, I don't think Retro Studios working on a patch for the Nintendo Switch's successor in parallel with Metroid Prime 4 Beyond itself is an impossibility, especially since Retro Studios most certainly have access to devkits for the Nintendo Switch's successor much earlier than Nintendo's third party partners as an subsidiary of Nintendo.

But yeah, outside of increasing the resolution and the quality of the assets (and perhaps add some minor ray tracing), I don't expect huge improvements from a patch, at least without a significant amount of work on Retro Studios' end.

Mayne the RT will look something like this, or better. Somebody added ray tracing to MPR

 

[Goodtwin]

Agreed. I had somewhat low expectations coming in..We all knew the game was built for the current switch models. My guess it would be MPR level.

i admit I wasn't too impressed by it at first either when I saw the video, until I saw some comparison videos with MPR. There's definitely an upgrade in areas, like Samus's model, her ship, and how detailed the environments are (mainly outside) If this game ends up 720p docked like the trailers, then they are definitely pushing something, cause MPR is 900p docked, and the same engine is being used.

An MP4 is basically PS4 level fidelity at 720p on Switch.

A MP game built for the Switch 2 from the ground up will look absolutely stunning. Halfway between PS4 and PS5, and believe believe it will use DLSS (probably 720p native handheld and 1080p native docked.

I actually think Prime 4 is a great candidate to dial up a bunch of the bells and whistles that Switch 2 brings to the table. This is because the overall scope of this game is limited to a game developed targeting Switch hardware. Once I saw the 2025 release window for Prime 4, I am 90% certain it's a cross gen game now. Nintendo is likely looking to use the new hardware to help propel Prime into a higher level of popularity.

 

[Shoulder]

Mayne the RT will look something like this, or better. Somebody added ray tracing to MPR

Maybe it's just me, but if that's the difference between no Ray-Tracing, and Ray-Tracing for a game like Metroid, I don't think that effort is worth it for a Switch 2 patch. You're much better off maybe cleaning up some assets, perhaps some high res textures, shadows, etc, higher resolution itself, and if Switch 2 offers it, a 120fps mode.

The baked in lighting is already so freaking good, it kind of makes RT moot IMO. Is there a difference? Yeah, there is, but it's not some massive "OMG!!!!!" difference. I feel the only reason to go with Ray-Tracing would be so the developers don't have to spend the time pre-baking everything in, and save time, and costs, horsepower demands be damned and all.

Now to be clear, this isn't some implementation from Retro, and thus the person who created this does not have all the tools the developer themselves would have. So a proper RT implementation would likely look better. But honestly, this mostly looks kind of meh, and wouldn't be worth the performance penalty IMO.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I wonder, does the T-239 with lpddr5x 12gb, have some potential bottlenecks? I lack information in this regard and if not, what would potentially be the "weakest" part?

potential bottlenecks could come from not clocking the ram so high. but really, we're lacking information to really determine what would be the slowest part of the system

Mayne the RT will look something like this, or better. Somebody added ray tracing to MPR

this is exactly the kind of implementation that doesn't work well with baked lighting. Alan Wake 2 used RT to augment shadows, reflections, translucency; stuff that' doesn't use screen space data. RT lighting is done via actual light sources, which MP1 doesn't have and MP4 probably has few of

just going by the trailer from yesterday, RT shadows and reflections would be more tangible as those things are missing from dynamic objects

 

[Goodtwin]

Maybe it's just me, but if that's the difference between no Ray-Tracing, and Ray-Tracing for a game like Metroid, I don't think that effort is worth it for a Switch 2 patch. You're much better off maybe cleaning up some assets, perhaps some high res textures, shadows, etc, higher resolution itself, and if Switch 2 offers it, a 120fps mode.

The baked in lighting is already so freaking good, it kind of makes RT moot IMO. Is there a difference? Yeah, there is, but it's not some massive "OMG!!!!!" difference. I feel the only reason to go with Ray-Tracing would be so the developers don't have to spend the time pre-baking everything in, and save time, and costs, horsepower demands be damned and all.

Now to be clear, this isn't some implementation from Retro, and thus the person who created this does not have all the tools the developer themselves would have. So a proper RT implementation would likely look better. But honestly, this mostly looks kind of meh, and wouldn't be worth the performance penalty IMO.

Maybe they use it to have a native 4K game on Switch at launch. So instead of altering the look with Raytracing, they instead go with a very straight forward improvement. Native 4K, higher resolution textures and increased distance for LODs would stand out nicely, and allow them to market it as a 4K game and console.

 

[HyruleanKnight]

My biggest gripe is resolution (texture, render) and the animations.
The first 2 they could have easily co developed. Knowing that the target is 4k capable, will have at least 8gb (back then a reasonable assumption) means preparing assets in a higher resolution would be a given.

The animations...yeah, that's not bound to hardware and won't change. But resolution, textures and maybe some ray tracing and I'm more then happy.

Animation quality may be a CPU bound issue. Assuming they are targeting 60 fps on the Switch, those three tiny A57 cores will have to make draw calls 60 times per second, so a single extra instance of animation will put a huge toll on the CPU.

I could be completely wrong here though, my understanding of this subject matter is very surface level.

 

[Thraktor]

Mayne the RT will look something like this, or better. Somebody added ray tracing to MPR

I think this video actually does a pretty good job of showing why adding dynamic global illumination on top of baked lighting isn't a particularly good idea. Because their GI is layered on top of the baked lighting, it just exaggerates the effect, with bright areas becoming brighter and dark areas becoming darker, and results in lighting that's significantly different from the artist's intention.

If you're replacing a static baked GI implementation with a dynamic ray traced GI implementation, then the ideal outcome is that it looks the same in static scenes. Pre-baked lighting already represents the ideal lighting for the scene (because you can literally spend as long as you like rendering it offline), with the big downside being that it's not dynamic, and can't respond to changes in either lighting or scene geometry. If you implement a dynamic GI system then you want to get as close as possible to the offline renderer that created the pre-baked lighting, and in scenes with static lighting and geometry, ideally you can't tell the difference.

Which, coming back to Metroid Prime 4, becomes an issue if you want to bolt on a dynamic GI path to your renderer, because the game seems to be designed around static lighting, so the difference won't be obvious. There would be some subtle difference in lighting on and around moving objects (enemies, mostly), but in the best case scenario you'd be putting in a lot of work for something which doesn't look a whole lot different than you've already got.

 

[P4bl0]

The date speculation kinda ended yesterday, they'll release this thing Early 2025 and give Switch a last final push this holiday for a smooth transition, money talks after all.

Well it was a very fun ride guys on this thread, now let's wait on the reveal trailer, which should happen next quarter.

 

[NineTailSage]

I don’t get the people complaining about the graphics. It‘s a Switch game, the Direct footage is from Switch and you can‘t expect Raytracing or 4K from it. It‘s still one of (or the) best looking games on Switch, and will look even more stunning on NG (if it gets patched/ a new version for it, which I expect).

I agree and don't understand this narrative.
Retro Studios will have 2 of the best looking Switch games in (MP Remaster and MP4) when all is said and done...

Knowing Retro whatever they implement for a theoretical Switch 2 version of MP4, will no doubt look absolutely promising for what's to come on the hardware.

 

[Aether]

Animation quality may be a CPU bound issue. Assuming they are targeting 60 fps on the Switch, those three tiny A57 cores will have to make draw calls 60 times per second, so a single extra instance of animation will put a huge toll on the CPU.

I could be completely wrong here though, my understanding of this subject matter is very surface level.

Na. The console manages mario and Zelda animations just fine. They feel stiff, disconnected, and close if not to close to mp1 animation.
Samus is great, but the pirates looked ... Videogames in the worst was.

They will not have 2 sets of animation between switch and switch 2. Even if the CPU could be PART of the problem. (Then again, I found the demons in doom 2016 to have better animations ... Or better blended animations)

 

[Steve]

How's everyones feeling about the upcoming investors meeting, this June.

I'm expecting we might get some BC confirmation and maybe some of their plans.

 

[monkeygotyou]

How's everyones feeling about the upcoming investors meeting, this June.

I'm expecting we might get some BC confirmation and maybe some of their plans.

I'm expecting nothing. I don't think they will say anything more until the reveal, except maybe the same 'ol "Nintendo accounts are important to us and will be used in the future"

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It's hard to look at any Switch 1 game and think "what they should spend most of their resources on for a next-gen version is ray-tracing."

Let's just get the basics out of the way first... Like, higher resolution, better anti-aliasing, higher resolution textures, higher detail LODs on objects not directly in front of the player...